SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[MissMDusk]

Double post, but well, considering the official tracks for Tifa and Aerith's dates, I think it will shut up stuff like "they didn't kiss" to "it's a rebound kiss!" including "it's a jealous kiss!"

B-b-but I was told it was a "jealous, rebound, platonic, casual, accidental, sex-charged but totally-not-romantic" kiss?? Are you telling me I've been lied to??? That it was romantic and intentional all along? No way.

And how dare they, they forgot to mention the "KOIBITO TSUNAGI, very intimate, married, innocent-but-not(?), totally-more-romantic-than-a-kiss" hand-holding?? Wow, color me surprised!

 

[Xombii]

Eh, from what I've seen lately, the game is a full remake, with everything changing, the lifestream totally rewritten and a completely new end, so ACC doesn't count. Also Crisis core isn't canon and um... I forgot because it's really hard to follow all the things that are apparently canon or not canon according to whoever decides.

Save me...

 

[GamerSkull]

I saw someone on Twitter zoom in on the kiss in an effort to prove it never actually happened.

I genuinely think flat-earthers are less insane than some of these people.

 

[Eerie]

I saw someone on Twitter zoom in on the kiss in an effort to prove it never actually happened.

I genuinely think flat-earthers are less insane than some of these people.

I saw a screenshot too and at first I was persuaded it was Margot Then I read the name and I was like

 

[GamerSkull]

B-b-but I was told it was a "jealous, rebound, platonic, casual, accidental, sex-charged but totally-not-romantic" kiss?? Are you telling me I've been lied to??? That it was romantic and intentional all along? No way.

And how dare they, they forgot to mention the "KOIBITO TSUNAGI, very intimate, married, innocent-but-not(?), totally-more-romantic-than-a-kiss" hand-holding?? Wow, color me surprised!

Well, obviously "tender" is just a synonym for platonic. Clearly, a rebound kiss. Cloud has realized that Zack loves Aerith (and is also dead) so he can longer be with him. So Tifa is truly his only option.

I saw a screenshot too and at first I was persuaded it was Margot Then I read the name and I was like

Saw another tweet that shows Cloud hugging Aerith AFTER the kiss. Such a strange implication. If I kiss a girl, does that mean I can never hug another girl for any reason whatsoever without cheating?

 

[Xombii]

Well, obviously "tender" is just a synonym for platonic. Clearly, a rebound kiss. Cloud has realized that Zack loves Aerith (and is also dead) so he can longer be with him. So Tifa is truly his only option.


Saw another tweet that shows Cloud hugging Aerith AFTER the kiss. Such a strange implication. If I kiss a girl, does that mean I can never hug another girl for any reason whatsoever without cheating?

Did you not know, you're supposed to pretend completely that every member of the opposite sex excluding the one that you, recently? um, held hands with, in a not platonic, but um. I guess, specific and mysterious way, does not exist. Let them die, in fact. Because god forbid you be a nice person unless you wana fuck someone.

ooh, I might have figured out the problem. Is it incels? Worst plot twist ever.

 

[Ryushikaze]

B-b-but I was told it was a "jealous, rebound, platonic, casual, accidental, sex-charged but totally-not-romantic" kiss?? Are you telling me I've been lied to??? That it was romantic and intentional all along? No way.

And how dare they, they forgot to mention the "KOIBITO TSUNAGI, very intimate, married, innocent-but-not(?), totally-more-romantic-than-a-kiss" hand-holding?? Wow, color me surprised!

The "intertwined hands can only be romantic and are the highest form of romantic expression" argument is so terrible because A: it could be romantic or it could be with the ghost of your dead grandmother and B: Even when it is romantic, it's baby's first romantic step. Koibito Tsunagi is almost shorthand for 'Completely inexperienced and naïve" for how it gets used in fiction.

Well, obviously "tender" is just a synonym for platonic. Clearly, a rebound kiss. Cloud has realized that Zack loves Aerith (and is also dead) so he can longer be with him. So Tifa is truly his only option.

Many years ago, on this very forum I think, Cali IIRC tried to argue they were 'tender' in the sense of being 'painful' memories.

Anyways, the Cleriths are not okay. We are seeing the full on return of the Pinkers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/comments/1fpjb42
Also, no need to intervene, but please enjoy this reddit thread where someone brings up the very early materials where The Cetra is labeled Tifa, I discuss how Aerith was apparently mostly Tifa at one point, and a Clerith quietly fumes about it. I know she wants to say much more but can't for fear of looking even more unhinged.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I know it's minor all things considered but the insistence on callinh her Aeris is so funny to me. If you can't even accept that was a mistranslation of course you're not gonna be able to accept the story doesn't fit your initial perception of it

 

[Eerie]

It's a huge red flag usually when someone calls Aerith 'Aeris'. I'm always willing to read but yeah, 99% of her fans have accepted that it's a mistranslation, if you're still on Aeris...

 

[Ryeleigh]

I know it's minor all things considered but the insistence on callinh her Aeris is so funny to me. If you can't even accept that was a mistranslation of course you're not gonna be able to accept the story doesn't fit your initial perception of it

It's a huge red flag usually when someone calls Aerith 'Aeris'. I'm always willing to read but yeah, 99% of her fans have accepted that it's a mistranslation, if you're still on Aeris...

I think the funniest part for me about that is that they don't even go the whole length like DBZ fandom who straight-up write "Kakarotto" or "Vejita/Bejita" in fics. Her "real" name is Earisu!

One take that I've been puzzling about is that the reunion flower is CA but I guess it's indicative of all the extremes' takes? I mean, Aerith basically had to force that flower on Cloud and two minutes later he gave it to Tifa? I'm not exactly opposed to people thinking that if they like but canonically? How? lol

 

[Sacky]

The "intertwined hands can only be romantic and are the highest form of romantic expression" argument is so terrible because A: it could be romantic or it could be with the ghost of your dead grandmother and B: Even when it is romantic, it's baby's first romantic step. Koibito Tsunagi is almost shorthand for 'Completely inexperienced and naïve" for how it gets used in fiction.


Many years ago, on this very forum I think, Cali IIRC tried to argue they were 'tender' in the sense of being 'painful' memories.

Anyways, the Cleriths are not okay. We are seeing the full on return of the Pinkers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/comments/1fpjb42
Also, no need to intervene, but please enjoy this reddit thread where someone brings up the very early materials where The Cetra is labeled Tifa, I discuss how Aerith was apparently mostly Tifa at one point, and a Clerith quietly fumes about it. I know she wants to say much more but can't for fear of looking even more unhinged.

It's the same usual suspect who recently said the only reason for the rebirth lifestream sequence is to give Tifa something to do in disc 1 since according to them she doesn't do anything. Then saying how Tifas part 3 Lifestream sequence will be replaced. I just gotta ask what does any character in disc 1 so called "do" like each character is there, and the story is going on. A character doesn't need to be doing something super important every second of the plot XD. Also what a weird way to look at media this super impactful highlight of the game section can't have been added to benefit the story but to give characters more screen time XD. This is their so called favourite franchise and they are disrespecting the quality of writing this much? Then expect that they will so called get everything they want while calling story plot points basically fanservice when it's about Clouds memories the crux of the story not Aeriths death?. Good luck then

 

[Ryushikaze]

I know it's minor all things considered but the insistence on callinh her Aeris is so funny to me. If you can't even accept that was a mistranslation of course you're not gonna be able to accept the story doesn't fit your initial perception of it

Yeah, people who insist it was Aeris always get a side eye. Not that there's anything wrong with Aeris, but it's spelled Eris and she's a chaos goddess.

I think the funniest part for me about that is that they don't even go the whole length like DBZ fandom who straight-up write "Kakarotto" or "Vejita/Bejita" in fics. Her "real" name is Earisu!

They also have no problem with Sephrioth, despite one of their common BS justifications being that there's no TH sound in Japanese.

One take that I've been puzzling about is that the reunion flower is CA but I guess it's indicative of all the extremes' takes? I mean, Aerith basically had to force that flower on Cloud and two minutes later he gave it to Tifa? I'm not exactly opposed to people thinking that if they like but canonically? How? lol

I've had several CA somehow interpret me saying "Rebirth makes a push to associate Tifa with the reunion flower with regards to Cloud and a push at the end to have Cloud himself make a choice not to associate himself with the reunion flower with regards to Aerith" as "Rebirth is saying the reunion flower has nothing to do with Aerith." Ignore that I also said rebirth did however make sure to associate them with Zack and Aerith almost immediately.
Basic literacy, nevermind media literacy, is not always present in this fandom.

It's the same usual suspect who recently said the only reason for the rebirth lifestream sequence is to give Tifa something to do in disc 1 since according to them she doesn't do anything. Then saying how Tifas part 3 Lifestream sequence will be replaced. I just gotta ask what does any character in disc 1 so called "do" like each character is there, and the story is going on. A character doesn't need to be doing something super important every second of the plot XD. Also what a weird way to look at media this super impactful highlight of the game section can't have been added to benefit the story but to give characters more screen time XD. This is their so called favourite franchise and they are disrespecting the quality of writing this much? Then expect that they will so called get everything they want while calling story plot points basically fanservice when it's about Clouds memories the crux of the story not Aeriths death?. Good luck then

Unless you're in their hometown, most of the characters just become background after Midgar until very late, And yes, everyone saying Tifa's lifestream sequence in 3 will be replaced is smoking desperation infused copium.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I think Rebirth tries to distinguish the flower as a whole vs the pedals of the flower.

The whole flower is used to symbolize Cloud and Tifa’s reunion (or a reunion of two, living people since Leslie’s story is also included)

The pedals leading to a reunion is ZA, since it may be a continuation of the flower that got stepped on in the opening of Remake. Since they are separated by tragedy (Zack being dead), then their reunion is slightly different but the meaning is the same.

That would explain why the reunion flower is used as a “guide” between CT, while the pedals are leading Zack to where he needs to be in the LS.

 

[null]

I just plain like Aeris better

But, that is not the localization hill to die on. Save that for when the creative staff are arrogant and insist on actual nonsense in the translation, like Third Children. That’s when you fight the power.

 

[Eerie]

I was today years old when I learned (well it was this week but maybe I knew and forgot), honestly I'm so confused my memory's terrible, Cloud and Tifa don't actually kiss ... yet. Like Cloud and Aerith had "Words Interrupted by the Fireworks" the Cloud and Tifa kiss was interrupted by the fireworks ... That's ... kind of adorable and even explains why things were still a bit shy/awkward when they got off the ride.

I don't know what you've been reading but:

• none of the dates happened: they are what ifs situations
• in Cloud and Tifa's date, they do kiss, there's no denying it

The reason why they're awkward about it afterwards is because they are super shy. In a way it also matches that old script where after having sex, we'd see them getting out of the chocobo stables, where both look around as they exit.

Edit: the devs talk about it, the song in EN is named "a tender kiss", there is absolutely no denying this exist in the "what if" situation.

 

[Eerie]

It's not on the cheek. Nope. Do you think Toriyama would feel shy by looking at Cloud kissing Tifa on the cheek? Of course not. Plus as the camera pans out, they're still at it. Imagine them during the rest of the gondola ride with Cloud kissing her on the cheek? Let's be serious two minutes.

Look at Clive and Jill kissing, you still see Jill's lips too during the kiss.

Animating a kiss is really hard. That's all there is to it. But Cloud and Tifa did kiss during their date. II mean, even the DEVS talk about it, they talk about knowing how fans have imagined it - trust me, CTs don't imagine Cloud kissing Tifa on the cheek, it's about sharing a real kiss there. That's how important it is to SE. The English title is on official merchandising as we speak.

And narratively it makes sense: hug in Remake, kiss in Rebirth, sex in p3. It's about giving more each time when you write.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

I made sure to check and rechecked on this. It's a kiss on the cheek. I made sure to check video just in case. The final shot Tifa's lips are visible. I think Tifa turns her cheek at the last moment and thus Cloud planted one on there instead. Of course it's your perogative to think otherwise. I didn't know what people were talking about with kiss on the cheek so I made sure to check it myself.

Hmm, place the playback speed to .25 (and you may want to hit mute for the sound). From the angle of which Cloud turns his head and leans in, and the angle of which Tifa slightly turns too, he wouldn't make contact further in enough for it to convincingly be on the cheek. At best, you could say the very corner of the mouth, but that's silly for the other reasons.

The other reasons being because everything else in how the scene is presented is outright "telling" you it's a good ol' fashioned kiss on the lips, this because it's by the book in what it's presenting. Possible graphical accuracy aside. I also think it's kind of funny because, most of the time when someone closes their eyes in anticipation for a kiss, it's assumed to be in expectation of on the lips—if it was on the cheek instead, it'd more likely play out like how you'd see this happen in a romantic/comedy manga. That level of deviation of expectation is something to be pointed out, not obscured.

 

[Eerie]

They also both open their mouths, which would be very weird if Cloud was meant to kiss her on the cheek lmao.

And their conversation is about getting carried away by the atmosphere too.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I was today years old when I learned (well it was this week but maybe I knew and forgot), honestly I'm so confused my memory's terrible, Cloud and Tifa don't actually kiss ... yet. Like Cloud and Aerith had "Words Interrupted by the Fireworks" the Cloud and Tifa kiss was interrupted by the fireworks ... That's ... kind of adorable and even explains why things were still a bit shy/awkward when they got off the ride.

That's even more endearing to me personally although I'm not sure how many people including CTs know. It just means there is still more that could happen in the next game.

Cloud's still not fully himself yet and honestly it never made sense for the CT climax to happen already. It's also like how could they top that without showing r18

I'd even go so far to say all three pairs are still "first steps" and innocent/naive (not counting endgame/AC) That ... doesn't bother me personally. I don't see a problem with people enjoying these moments or finding the romance in them while being aware of the framing and trappings.

I made sure to check and rechecked on this. It's a kiss on the cheek. I made sure to check video just in case. The final shot Tifa's lips are visible. I think Tifa turns her cheek at the last moment and thus Cloud planted one on there instead. Of course it's your perogative to think otherwise. I didn't know what people were talking about with kiss on the cheek so I made sure to check it myself.

What you're getting confused by is that they have not yet actually made contact as the scene pans away. This is a discretionary pan, and it's used a LOT in film when you want to imply something steamier than you can actually show, or which might be difficult to animate. You'll find that most in engine kisses even in modern games use cheats like this. Jedi Survivor, FF16, etc. all used camera angles and cutaways to show a kiss without needing the lips to touch.

 

[Eerie]

Jedi Survivor, FF16, etc. all used camera angles and cutaways to show a kiss without needing the lips to touch.

Although, the Clive and Jill kiss WAS properly animated lol: x.com

 

[GamerSkull]

I know the dates are all in a grey area when it comes to canon, but there's no denying that Cloud and Tifa plant one on each other's lips in theirs.

 

[Axiom]

If they wanted to show that Cloud and Tifa didn't kiss on the lips, and that the kiss was interrupted, this is just about the worst way to shoot the scene.

 

[aeriths]

Sorry if this is too blunt, but I think it’s borderline ridiculous to even try to argue they kissed on the cheek. They look at each other’s lips and part them with a fly away camera after leaning in. Trying to zoom in on animation that was never meant to be zoomed in on and analyzed in such a way is disingenuous.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Although, the Clive and Jill kiss WAS properly animated lol: x.com

Well, yes and no. They models make contact, but they also go into each other's heads a bit, which is hidden by the usual angle the kiss is shown from. That's another way to cheat.. 3D animation is fucking fascinating and also hilarious when you peel back just a little bit.

Like Mirabelle's arms in certain scenes in Encanto, or the 3D squash and stretch in the guilty gear and dragon ball games to make stuff look a certain way without messing with focal lengths etc.

 

[Eerie]

Well, yes and no. They models make contact, but they also go into each other's heads a bit, which is hidden by the usual angle the kiss is shown from. That's another way to cheat.. 3D animation is fucking fascinating and also hilarious when you peel back just a little bit.

Like Mirabelle's arms in certain scenes in Encanto, or the 3D squash and stretch in the guilty gear and dragon ball games to make stuff look a certain way without messing with focal lengths etc.

Yeah in the GC I am in someone explained what the mocaps have to do to animate a kiss, it’s really not easy xD