SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
Nah. They haven't picked a lane. The only thing that has changed is that we have now two love triangles.

1. Cloud, Aerith, Tifa
2. Cloud, Aerith, Zack

And maybe there will be a third one. If you have seen Yuffie's gold saucer date she openly admits that she had a huge crush on Zack and wishes to meet him again.

I don't think it will happen but knowing SE with their history of crafting love triangles that wouldn't surprise me. To be honest if that were to happen it would be pretty creepy due to their age difference.
I don't know I'm a CA and I didn't see the Cloud Aerith Zack love triangle as anything but bait to convince me to buy part three. While I found a bunch of CT stuff in parts it wasn't in OG. And ZA stuff too in the background. so I do think that CAZ triangle is just bait personally.

We will see in Pt3 but my thoughts are CT and ZA ending. I don't except more CA stuff beyond story stuff from this point...and I don't want to get my hopes up too high in the meantime on what they do with Aerith.

Edit:What I will agree is I don't think they're pushing any one ship over eachother. All get ships have fanservice. But story wise we just get story, and I think they're ending with CT and ZA together as part of that story.

Edit: For clarification
 
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GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Nah. They haven't picked a lane. The only thing that has changed is that we have now two love triangles.

1. Cloud, Aerith, Tifa
2. Cloud, Aerith, Zack

And maybe there will be a third one. If you have seen Yuffie's gold saucer date she openly admits that she had a huge crush on Zack and wishes to meet him again.

I don't think it will happen but knowing SE with their history of crafting love triangles that wouldn't surprise me. To be honest if that were to happen it would be pretty creepy due to their age difference.
I’m not sure how you can even see Yuffie’s crush on Zack as a thing they’re legimitately trying to push but whatever. It’s just meant to be a cute story.

However, I do disagree with some of what you said. I respect your stance though.

Even if the gondola dates are fanservice, it was a deliberate choice to give Tifa a kiss and not Aerith. If they truly did not matter, why not just give both a kiss? It clearly seems like they are pushing a specific ship, and while they don’t intend for it to affect the story (for now), they’re ultimately leaning in a specific direction.

I definitely think it would be narratively unfulfilling to not have a payoff that ends conclusively now.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
They don't. That's the meaning of love triangle. It's intentionally ambiguous, open ended and left for player to decide. Devs have been very straightforward with this over the years.

Devs are never going to push one love interest over the other.
If they were straightforward about this then we'd at least have one quote where they explain the ambiguity and explain what is and is not up for personal interpretation. But they don't, instead they consistently talk about personal interpretations in a more generalized sense while also saying they have their own interpretations for everything and that some people interpret stuff incorrectly.

It they actually wanted to be "straightforward" then they'd say something like:

"we intentionally don't put Cloud in overt non-optional romantic scenes because Tifa and Aerith are both equal love interests, so we want the player to decide if Cloud and Tifa are just friends, or if their story is romantic, and we want the player to decide whether Aerith likes Cloud or is just projecting her feelings for Zack onto someone who she really shares more of a brotherly or friendly bond with. These are essentially two routes where the only thing that changes are the emotions, but they are both equally canonical, the interpretation that Cloud ends up with Tifa, or Aerith, or even with neither is all equally canonical and we don't have any particular outcome in mind while writing, we write it so that all these things are equally in the cards as it were."

But we never have those statements, instead we have vague statements and rather than these two emotional routes being explicitly addressed both in game and out, they never are. What's more Tifa is ALWAYS treated explicitly romantic in the game, and Aerith doesn't get anything explicitly romantic, even in optional scenes, which is kinda weird if "anything goes". If Aerith is a valid route, then why not give her a kiss in her optional scene? If it's possible that Tifa isn't romantic then why is the non-optional part of the game filled with explicitly romantic stuff?
 
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SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
I don't know I'm a CA and I didn't see the Cloud Aerith Zack love triangle as anything but bait to convince me to buy part three. While I got a bunch of CT stuff pushed at me so I do think that CAZ triangle is just bait personally.

We will see in Pt3 but my thoughts are CT and ZA ending. I don't want to get my hopes up too high in the meantime.
Funny. I saw Rebirth pushing Cloud/Aerith and neglecting Tifa and Zack.

As a Zack fan i wasn't thrilled but i have my hopes that my boy gets the ending he deserves.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Yes indeed. When game related stupidity rears it's ugly head, don't turn from the game, turn away from the stupid. And maybe call over your shoulder "can't hear you, enjoying the actual plot!" if you feel saucy.
Set the stupid on fire, if at all possible. It will keep you warm and is infinitely renewable, I hear.

T'would have been tragic to leave it out in the cold.
That's why I have it a home.

Johnnies abide, it's what they do. Whether they're best friend is a literal plank of wood, or they're stuck with a toilet humor running gag, Johnny abides.
Ed, Edd, and Eddie but the only different is fully 3D Johnny from FF7 replaces their Johnny.

This reference is bringing me back to the Sonic/Mega Man crossover. Poor Quick Man.
I mean in general. The man's weakness is "my own body is tearing me apart because I cannot move"

Helped along by yours truly voice acting every line of dialogue. The sight/sound of a tall bearded man earnestly voicing Polly Geist tends to slay even when everyone is sober.
I can imagine.

Nah I remember why I thought this. It was way back, with me mistakenly thinking you disliked my comments because you don't engage in smilies, or Thanks/Likes. We cleared it up with simple communication and that was that.
It's just my way.

I wanna say yes. How long ago was that? I might be mixing memories of a different Discworld project but it's certainly familiar.
It wasn't a discworld project, just a 48 hour film about a guy who works at routing people to the afterlife they qualify for, and he gets himself as an assignment. I played his boss, Death.

Funny thing, I was just on a Nelson era MST3K binge like two days ago. Nice to know he's still finding new ways to riff.
Have you seen any of the recent Rifftrax lives?

That works.
Better than one might initially expect.

Oh I know, I've seen what comes after X's time.

As deep as Cloud under the Highwind, one might say.
Ba dum tish.

I was regularly excused from classroom participation for similar reasons. Not just when reading fiction either. Especially in history I tended to be multiple chapters ahead of the class, on account of it being the same damn material as last year 95% of the time.
That sounds infuriating. Repeating history even though you learned it.

Having permission to nap in class was nice, but they still made me take the tests.
I had a similar arrangement once, for a programming class.

We need to add kittens twining around barstools, napping on the Shera's control console, batting at the handlebars of Fenrir, etc to the theoretical episode bumpers for that slice of life show.
Oh yes, Fluffy's children will be everywhere.

No lie, but Sabat always comes to mind first for how much it affected his performance over the years. Vegeta now sounds like Piccolo then, for instance.
It almost happened to the first lady who voiced Excel in the Excel saga dub. She took like a year off to let her voice recover.

Ooo it happened again. Hi kitty!
She managed to minimize every window and I lost my place and train of thought.

Well if it's all the same to y'all, I vote we bypass this one and just fight the Balor demon.
I mean if you want to take the easy way out, I won't blame you.

Both work fine, I just miss hearing the wark itself. The REgames just use a louder kweh.
Fair.

Make the donuts?
Nah, another moment where I got interrupted and forgot to complete a thought. I was saying "That does seem to be how the new gen pinkers are treating things."

It wouldn't surprise me to learn this is the main basis for their bond. Common ground goes a long way and all.

Maaya be late for a very important date.
With Kenichi.

It's almost like viewing the story as a whole gives a different picture than cherry picking tidbits to cling to, right? Ryu you know what it's like to be branded a heretic by CAltists, am I on the right track? It's been a minute since someone pointed at me and screamed "HERESY!". I kinda miss it.
I think technically I'm an infidel rather than a heretic, but yeah, you're doing it right.

Shippers are the most toxic individuals in this fandom. The devs have stated that players decide their canon.

I obviously prefer Zack/Aerith pairing but i'm not going to raise a holy hell if someone likes Cloud/Aerith pairing. That's how the game is intended to be. Ambiguous, vague and open ended.
I obviously fundamentally disagree. Could you provide a source for the idea that "The player decides who Cloud loves" because I have not come across anything like that. If anything, what I've seen is them discussing about the affection system possibly detracting from the actual narrative and wanting each possible outcome to be true to Cloud's character.
Furthermore the affection values themselves are consistently referred to as the companion's feelings towards Cloud, not his feelings towards them.


i really don't see a point for taking any part into that debate because this is something that is influenced by player's actions. The player decides the canon romance. The end.
That's not how "canon" works.

You do know that the outcome of under the Highwind is affected by player's choices, right?

High affinity = Tifa is visibly embarrassed because she had a spicy moment with Cloud and the others saw it.

"Were you watching?"


Low affinity = Tifa is pissed because others were spying and eavesdropping them.

"Were you listening?"

Using under the highwind is like using Rebirth GS date. Irrelevant. It is player's choices that creates these scenes. They are not tied into the story as "there is only one canon" kind of way.

SE has always wanted to give all the power to the player and never pushes one love interest over the other. Players decide their canon.

That's why the ending of AC was intentionally left ambiguous and vague. SE wants viewers to have their own interpretations.
But regardless of whether or not you get the high or low version, Cloud and Tifa confirm their mutual feelings of romance that night. After that they start living together, they start a family together. Cloud is so happy living with Tifa that he begins feeling guilty about it. Nojima and Nomura have both said Cloud goes back where he belongs at the end of AC/C. The ending isn't open ended. They are raising a child together, a child that considers them his parents (and whose biological parents were made very deliberate visual mirrors of Cloud and Tifa).

Also this is sort of like saying "You decide the canon ending of FF10-2" because getting one ending as opposed to another is down to player input during the game.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
Funny. I saw Rebirth pushing Cloud/Aerith and neglecting Tifa and Zack.

As a Zack fan i wasn't thrilled but i have my hopes that my boy gets the ending he deserves.
Funny because I'm actually pretty upset at how Rebirth handled CA. I like the moments we got but honestly it feels like it was utilized as a stepping zone for ZA in many ways. We will see however. Zack will be in Pt3 that I'm sure.
 

AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
Funny. I saw Rebirth pushing Cloud/Aerith and neglecting Tifa and Zack.

As a Zack fan i wasn't thrilled but i have my hopes that my boy gets the ending he deserves.

Genuinely don’t know how anyone can play Rebirth and come away thinking Tifa was somehow neglected, in favour of Cloud and Aerith as a romantic pairing.

But then again as was established in the General Spoilers Thread, we are all wrong about everything in the trilogy, and only one of us apparently has the foresight to know exactly the developer’s intentions on the LTD, and what will happen in Part 3.

Why even have discussions when only one of us is right, and the rest of us are all wrong?


IMG_4221.jpeg

IMG_4222.jpeg
 

SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
Set the stupid on fire, if at all possible. It will keep you warm and is infinitely renewable, I hear.


That's why I have it a home.


Ed, Edd, and Eddie but the only different is fully 3D Johnny from FF7 replaces their Johnny.


I mean in general. The man's weakness is "my own body is tearing me apart because I cannot move"


I can imagine.


It's just my way.


It wasn't a discworld project, just a 48 hour film about a guy who works at routing people to the afterlife they qualify for, and he gets himself as an assignment. I played his boss, Death.


Have you seen any of the recent Rifftrax lives?


Better than one might initially expect.




Ba dum tish.


That sounds infuriating. Repeating history even though you learned it.


I had a similar arrangement once, for a programming class.


Oh yes, Fluffy's children will be everywhere.


It almost happened to the first lady who voiced Excel in the Excel saga dub. She took like a year off to let her voice recover.


She managed to minimize every window and I lost my place and train of thought.


I mean if you want to take the easy way out, I won't blame you.


Fair.


Nah, another moment where I got interrupted and forgot to complete a thought. I was saying "That does seem to be how the new gen pinkers are treating things."




With Kenichi.


I think technically I'm an infidel rather than a heretic, but yeah, you're doing it right.


I obviously fundamentally disagree. Could you provide a source for the idea that "The player decides who Cloud loves" because I have not come across anything like that. If anything, what I've seen is them discussing about the affection system possibly detracting from the actual narrative and wanting each possible outcome to be true to Cloud's character.
Furthermore the affection values themselves are consistently referred to as the companion's feelings towards Cloud, not his feelings towards them.



That's not how "canon" works.


But regardless of whether or not you get the high or low version, Cloud and Tifa confirm their mutual feelings of romance that night. After that they start living together, they start a family together. Cloud is so happy living with Tifa that he begins feeling guilty about it. Nojima and Nomura have both said Cloud goes back where he belongs at the end of AC/C. The ending isn't open ended. They are raising a child together, a child that considers them his parents (and whose biological parents were made very deliberate visual mirrors of Cloud and Tifa).

Also this is sort of like saying "You decide the canon ending of FF10-2" because getting one ending as opposed to another is down to player input during the game.

"Depending on the player, it’s natural for them to say, “I like Tifa. No, I prefer Aeris,” so I wanted to shape things in reflection of that, or in other words, create a system that reacts to the players’ feelings. For example, if the game had a completely straightforward path, I might feel stuck with Tifa because of story-related reasons, even though Aeris is the one I like, it gets to feel something like that, so I wanted to get rid of that approach. It’s not that there are branching paths, but I absolutely wanted to incorporate a mechanic that reflects the player’s feelings."

- Nomura, Game Walker magazine


"AC is piece of work made by Japanese people. In Hollywood movies, I think there is a tendency where the meaning of all the scenes have to be expressed clearly but, this isn’t something like that. With our work, the viewer is free to decide how they interpret or enjoy it. The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times.

But, even if someone who have watched it interprets it differently then that is just another answer. I guess “comparing answers” with friends is one of the ways you can enjoy the movie. I think AC is a movie that makes those who have watched it, want to talk about it with others."

- Nomura


“Like Aerith, [Tifa] has a maternal side to her, but in a different sense. Not only was she looking after Marlene and Denzel, but she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud, who is a “big kid” himself in some respects.”

- Nomura, Advent Children Reunion Files

"The relationships between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa were definitely ambiguous, even back in the original, so I wanted to make sure I kept those relationships – pushing the limits of what we can depict, while still looking like two people genuinely caring for each other and being natural."

- FF7 Remake Co-director Motomu Toriyama, Inverse.com Interview


“Having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.”

- Yoshinori Kitase, 10th Anniversary Ultimania, page 11

"We never talk about how characters relate with each other outside of what is depicted in the game. Our only focus has been how best to depict the characters in an appealing way as part of the remake.

However, I also love to see the exciting discussions among the fans within the community and it’s something we’ve seen since the original game released!"

- Kitase, Push.com interview (May 24, 2020)


“First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don’t really intend to go into my views on love or marriage or family. After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith…”

- Nojima, Advent Children interview

The devs have stated time after time that there is no canon romance. It is up to player to decide. SE is never going to make one ship canon.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
Maybe it's more lore related? Like an Advent Children epilogue or DOC epilogue or something from those stories included in the game?
Thing is... even an AC/DOC epilogue can piss a certain part of the fandom.
Not even LTD related, DOC epilogue means it's open ending with Genesis and it pisses many people already.

Link should be working but here is the screen :

View attachment 16082
Huh? The ending is everyone die here like 50 years later after the meteor? This is even beyond Advent Children. Not even a nice try lol.

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OOT
He said Sanji/Zoro as BROTP I would like though I also said I could ship them romantically too based on my other ship dynamics and he thinks Nami/Luffy would be a ship I like but he isn't into it because he doesn't feel like Luffy feels that way about anyone. I would also ship timeskip: Luffy/Koby
As for Sanji ships he mentioned Pudding likes him or something. But I'm an outsider so I don't know much. I asked about different characters in general but the consensus is probably Sanji is more shippable of the crew because he is interested in romance.

I now how have to think about it more lol I didn't think of Nami/Sanji but it sounds nice.
ZoSan's bickering dynamic is what drawing Fujoshi, I'd rather see them as yaoi too. So if you want the intimate more and real bromance, I recommend LuSan.
And nah, LuNami shippers hate Sanji so much just like Cleriths hate Zack, I assure you. Why a male character who is charming and lady's man, but also very devoted to one woman is being hated as womanizer lol. SanNami shippers dont even see Luffy as threat, the love triangle is Nami/Sanji/Pudding to us, and many of my fellow shippers hate Pudding. Pudding's feelings is unrequited since he's thinking of Nami even when Pudding is crazy over him, she kissed him goodbye at the end of arc. Though, the author has said that there is no romance in the crew (they're all nakama or family); so chance is Luffy ended up with Hancock (who loves him) or Vivi (who is the same rare clan as him). And Pudding is still relevant to the future plot, so the chance is still there.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
"Open ended" "Not really a family by the way" "you decide your canon"

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Always the same takes erasing 80% of the actual content.

The only open moment in Final Fantasy 7 was the first game. And the only thing we didn't know was whether the team had survived the meteor fall or not. Whether humanity still existed or not. An open ending that died on the day Advent Children was released. The very reason for the film's existence, in fact. To show fans what really happened next.
Then the film ends. Aerith and Zack have left for the Lifestream. Cloud is at peace with himself. He invites his reconstituted family to go away for the weekend.

Just stop pushing your dumb headcanons EVERYTIME in this saga ffs. A story was told. You're free to like it or not. The end.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
@SilverSisu
As I said before. I think in 1997 and maybe before ACC so sure 2006 the devs did not care about the LTD so it was more ambiguous back then yes. Nomura even said he didn't care who Cloud loves. However I firmly as a CA who has been trying to see Clerith my ship in this franchise and believed Cloud love both girls till Remake...have seen these devs get less and less ambiguous over time. And I am convinced especially with Remake and Rebirth. No matter what we think the vision was in the past before this project they have obviously picked a lane now.

I tried to get the CA playthrough in both Remake and here in Rebirth. I'm trying to see the CA getting pushed you say you see. I see nice moments for my ship but I see also them setting up ZA so obviously in the background as well that I can't convince myself this will end up ambiguously anymore.

And I see the spotlight given to Tifa that you know wasn't there in OG and I see how they took away CA moments in both Remake and Rebirth and I was just ranting pages ago about how they made it so Aerith is no longer sure if she loves or just crushes on Cloud. And how they made Aerith's conflicted feelings for Zack so much of her moments with Cloud.

I would love to see what you do. I would love to think they're going to give payoff to my ship and cater to everyone in the end. But I honestly don't see it.
 
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SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
@SilverSisu
As I said before. I think in 1997 and maybe before ACC so sure 2006 the devs did not care about the LTD so it was more ambiguous back then yes. Nomura even said he didn't care who Cloud loves. However I firmly as a CA who has been trying to see Clerithmy ship sail in this franchise since after ACC have seen them get less and less ambiguous over time. And I am convinced especially with Remake and Rebirth. No matter what we think the vision was in the past before this project they have obviously picked a lane now.

I tried to get the CA playthrough in both Remake and here in Rebirth. I'm trying to see the CA you say you see. I see nice moments for my ship but I see also them setting up ZA so obviously as welk that I can't convince myself this will end up ambiguously anymore.

And I see the spotlight given to Tifa that you know wasn't there in OG and I see how they took away CA moments in both Remake and Rebirth and I was just ranting pages ago about how they made it so Aerith is no longer sure she loves Cloud. And how they made Aerith's conflicted feelings for Zack so much of her moments with Cloud.

I would love to see what you do. I would love to think they're going to give payoff to my ship and cater to everyone in the end. But I honestly don't see it.
I hope that Zack and Aerith get their happy ending together but after Rebirth i'm not so sure it will happen.

They did Zack dirty.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
For example, if the game had a completely straightforward path, I might feel stuck with Tifa because of story-related reasons, even though Aeris is the one I like,
So Nomura basically say, no matter you like Aerith and want her to be with Cloud, the story-related will lead you end up with Tifa.
“First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don’t really intend to go into my views on love or marriage or family. After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith…”
You cut the next sentence, that Nojima said 'but there is a burden with Aerith' means it's Aerith who make a lof ot effort for the relationship to work. And it shows in Rebirth. Two pairs has different problems. What going well with CA, dont go well with CT and vice versa.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
I hope that Zack and Aerith get their happy ending together but after Rebirth i'm not so sure it will happen.

They did Zack dirty.
That's because it's not at the forefront. It's all set up right now. Rebirth was all set up. But the way they set things up actually makes it so that if they want a ZA reunion it will happen. Everything is in place. Aerith isn't even sure she loves Cloud beyond a crush and I'm still mad at that. That leaves it extremely open for them to have her meet Zack again without conflicting with her relationship with Cloud or her feelings.

It's just what I see them doing.

I could be wrong but I don't think I am.
 

SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
That's because it's not at the forefront. It's all set up right now. Rebirth was all set up. But the way they set things up actually makes it so that if they want a ZA reunion it will happen. Everything is in place. Aerith isn't even sure she loves Cloud beyond a crush and I'm still mad at that. That leaves it extremely open for them to have her meet Zack again without conflicting with her relationship with Cloud or her feelings.

It's just what I see them doing.

I could be wrong but I don't think I am.
What is your opinion on Nojima calling Cloud and Aerith koibito and on the way to a smile novel stating that Cloud is the most important person in Aerith's life. Zack doesn't even get mentioned.

I have a feeling that the ending will be ambiguous, open ended and left for players to interpret. Otherwise it would retcon the novel.
 

Hix

Pro Adventurer
I hope that Zack and Aerith get their happy ending together but after Rebirth i'm not so sure it will happen.

They did Zack dirty.

I don't know what you're expecting, but Zack and Aerith are ending up together. It's already baked into the story in Advent Children Complete. If you're willing to quote nebulous dev statements on the LTD as fact then you will surely accept the much clearer and definitive dev statements telling us that we are heading to the exact same place as before, no more no less.


Aerith and Zack are together in the Lifestream. It's maybe not the happiest ending, but it's what we've got and it is cohesive with the narrative that has been set before us since 1997.

Rebirth, arguably, did more than any singular instalment until now to solidify the previously established situations - and relationships with them. No matter how one chooses to view the kiss that Cloud and Tifa shared, even be it as fanservice, there can be simply no escaping that this fanservice extended to one (and only one) girl and none other.

The bonds Cloud shares with his colleagues are unique because Cloud himself is unique. One could perhaps argue that there is a time when you could choose who Cloud falls in love with or the like, but even should one believe that to be the case it lasts only as long as disc 1 of 3. Once Cloud remembers, by the story, who he is, there is no longer any confusion for him and for the player. Cloud loves Tifa, that's an unavoidable part of his character, even if we do not.

Similarly, Aerith in Rebirth is never done talking about Zack. Indeed, searching for Zack. When she tells Cloud she still loves Zack, it should come as no surprise as she's demonstrated that fact time and time again through her actions, words and thoughts. Similarly, Zack himself awakens and sets about trying to get to Aerith, she's his last thought and first. You have to be seriously ignorant to believe that Nojima brought him back on to be cucked.

Why then do they not meet? There's an argument to be made that the payoff is being saved for part three when it will have the greatest impact. Id also suggest that having Zack and Aerith reunite in Rebirth removes any ability for her to get closure on her feelings with Cloud - now I see where we stand - and Cloud awakening fully to his memories making it harder to say goodbye so poignantly. It just wasn't the time.

Nevertheless, Aerith loves Zack, she has no reason to say as much to Cloud were it not true. In the end, they will be together, a fitting parallel as the traditional SOLDIER and Cetra - heroes in another story - leave it up to the relatively normal Cloud and Tifa instead. It's their story, formed and supported by their bond in the end.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
What is your opinion on Nojima calling Cloud and Aerith koibito and on the way to a smile novel stating that Cloud is the most important person in Aerith's life. Zack doesn't even get mentioned.

I have a feeling that the ending will be ambiguous, open ended and left for players to interpret. Otherwise it would retcon the novel.
Aerith called Cloud her koibito. That's a person she loved. She loved him. They already technically said something different from the novel. I just told you her response is "What kind of like is this I wonder?" In Rebirth.

They are already shifting gears because now she doesn't even know if it's a crush or a love. It's already different. Now Zack is there. Now they also made Cloud find out Aerith loved him and that he died and loved her. Things have changed.
 

SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
I don't know what you're expecting, but Zack and Aerith are ending up together. It's already baked into the story in Advent Children Complete. If you're willing to quote nebulous dev statements on the LTD as fact then you will surely accept the much clearer and definitive dev statements telling us that we are heading to the exact same place as before, no more no less.


Aerith and Zack are together in the Lifestream. It's maybe not the happiest ending, but it's what we've got and it is cohesive with the narrative that has been set before us since 1997.

Rebirth, arguably, did more than any singular instalment until now to solidify the previously established situations - and relationships with them. No matter how one chooses to view the kiss that Cloud and Tifa shared, even be it as fanservice, there can be simply no escaping that this fanservice extended to one (and only one) girl and none other.

The bonds Cloud shares with his colleagues are unique because Cloud himself is unique. One could perhaps argue that there is a time when you could choose who Cloud falls in love with or the like, but even should one believe that to be the case it lasts only as long as disc 1 of 3. Once Cloud remembers, by the story, who he is, there is no longer any confusion for him and for the player. Cloud loves Tifa, that's an unavoidable part of his character, even if we do not.

Similarly, Aerith in Rebirth is never done talking about Zack. Indeed, searching for Zack. When she tells Cloud she still loves Zack, it should come as no surprise as she's demonstrated that fact time and time again through her actions, words and thoughts. Similarly, Zack himself awakens and sets about trying to get to Aerith, she's his last thought and first. You have to be seriously ignorant to believe that Nojima brought him back on to be cucked.

Why then do they not meet? There's an argument to be made that the payoff is being saved for part three when it will have the greatest impact. Id also suggest that having Zack and Aerith reunite in Rebirth removes any ability for her to get closure on her feelings with Cloud - now I see where we stand - and Cloud awakening fully to his memories making it harder to say goodbye so poignantly. It just wasn't the time.

Nevertheless, Aerith loves Zack, she has no reason to say as much to Cloud were it not true. In the end, they will be together, a fitting parallel as the traditional SOLDIER and Cetra - heroes in another story - leave it up to the relatively normal Cloud and Tifa instead. It's their story, formed and supported by their bond in the end.
I have seen many Clerith shippers trying to prove that Aerith has moved on from Zack and they will be "platonic friends" in the lifestream.

Their rationales were:
1. Nojima calling them koibito and On the way to a smile stating that Cloud is the most important person to Aerith and Zack never gets mentioned.

2. Aerith wanting to spend her last moments with Cloud and not with Zack.

3. Aerith saying "maybe" when Cloud asked her if she still has feelings for Zack.

4. "Not anything important" said by Aerith when Cloud asked her if Tifa told her about Zack

5. Marlene confirming that Aerith has feelings for Cloud now and Zack is her past and fully accepting it.

I don't really know how i should interpret these.

I feel that Zack was done really dirty in rebirth but heres hoping that in part 3 he gets his girl back.
 
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SilverSisu

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Zack bro
Aerith called Cloud her koibito. That's a person she loved. She loved him. They already technically said something different from the novel. I just told you her response is "What kind of like is this I wonder?" In Rebirth.
Are you saying that they are retconning that Aerith's statement from on the way to a smile?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I have seen many Clerith shippers trying to prove that Aerith has moved on from Zack and they will be "platonic friends" in the lifestream.

Their rationales were:
1. Nojima calling them koibito and On the way to a smile stating that Cloud is the most important person to Aerith and Zack never gets mentioned.

2. Aerith wanting to spend her last moments with Cloud and not with Zack.

3. Aerith saying "maybe" when Cloud asked her if she still has feelings for Zack.

4. "Not anything important" said by Aerith when Cloud asked her if Tifa told her about Zack

5. Marlene confirming that Aerith has feelings for Cloud now and Zack is her past.

I don't really know how i should interpret these.

I feel that Zack was done really dirty in rebirth but heres hoping that in part 3 he gets his girl back.
1. I’m not versed in Japanese language to make an argument here but I’m sure others will pick up the slack.

2. You could argue she’s just trying to get closure, especially considering she’ll be spending an eternity with Zack afterwards.

3. She says “yes” in Japanese, I believe. Not “maybe.”

But even her “maybe” feels like a yes. Why would you say you maybe like your old boyfriend to the person you are currently interested in?

4. Tifa/Aerith are obviously deflecting the question because it’s complicated.

5. Marlene says this because it’s true but she’s unaware of how Zack fits into this equation.

What I find a bit interesting is that you’re taking the stance that it’s ambiguous but you constantly bring up CA “evidence” ? What about the CT evidence?

By the way, I’m not calling you out or anything. I’m stating this as respectfully as possible.
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
I have seen many Clerith shippers trying to prove that Aerith has moved on from Zack and they will be "platonic friends" in the lifestream.

Their rationales were:
1. Nojima calling them koibito and On the way to a smile stating that Cloud is the most important person to Aerith and Zack never gets mentioned.

2. Aerith wanting to spend her last moments with Cloud and not with Zack.

3. Aerith saying "maybe" when Cloud asked her if she still has feelings for Zack.

4. "Not anything important" said by Aerith when Cloud asked her if Tifa told her about Zack

5. Marlene confirming that Aerith has feelings for Cloud now and Zack is her past.

I don't really know how i should interpret these.

I feel that Zack was done really dirty in rebirth but heres hoping that in part 3 he gets his girl back.
Responses to their rationale are simple:

1. Already retconned as Lunar said

2. These weren't Aeriths "last moments". It was a different Aerith than Rebirth!Aerith, one who is already dead. She brought Cloud there to give him the white materia and figure out her feelings (which leads back into number one and Nojima retconning Cloud being someone Aerith is sure she loves/loved)

3. Aerith doesn't just say "Maybe". To cut it off there is to remove the entire context. Aerith says, "Maybe. He's never given me a reason not to" which clearly means yes, she still has feelings for him. Also, in JP there is no maybe, she simply says yes.

4. What else is she supposed to say here? She's lying to Cloud, she doesn't actually mean that Tifa telling her about Zack is unimportant. She's trying to convince him that Tifa didn't tell her at all.

5. Marlene doesn't confirm that Zack is Aerith's past. Zack asks if Aerith likes Cloud romantically and Marlene believes she does, but going back to point one again Aerith herself does not know if she likes Cloud romantically or not.

Zack wasn't done dirty. He was given a setup for a reunion with Aerith that will pay off in part 3.
 
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