LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

Vendel said:

Now add in those tards who think they are literally soul fused and she can solidify for him. And what would be required to prove that.....

Yeah.

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Bad time, but oh well - I had a fanfic like that. One-shot, Cloud is seeing Aerith, but that's it, she can only manifest in the church and only as a spirit, she can't take physical form. I actually thought it was pretty cool, because if Aerith *could* solidify and take physical form despite being dead, then we're talking FFX there. I prefer her as some sort of spirit.

DrakeClawfang said:

Bad time, but oh well - I had a fanfic like that. One-shot, Cloud is seeing Aerith, but that's it, she can only manifest in the church and only as a spirit, she can't take physical form. I actually thought it was pretty cool, because if Aerith *could* solidify and take physical form despite being dead, then we're talking FFX there. I prefer her as some sort of spirit.

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That is all well and good Drake. But you don't think your fanfic should be considered a legitimate interpretation of Clouds love life. Do you?

Some of them think their fics are just as canon as what everyone else the creators state.

Vendel said:

That is all well and good Drake. But you don't think your fanfic should be considered a legitimate interpretation of Clouds love life. Do you?

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That was the point of the fic, how the hell does a relationship work like that? I ended it on a hopeful note - for a few seconds, Aerith was able to become physical by force of will. But yeah, as a oneshot it ended happily, in the long run, nope.

saying "feelings for each other" means romantic feelings is twisting it . Didja know that

Do I spy a 4th vote for Aerith now? Wasn't it 3 votes before?

Quexinos said:

saying "feelings for each other" means romantic feelings is twisting it . Didja know that

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Well what does a well known clerith have to say about this?

wkc said:

Meanwhile, Cloti's are focusing on what the Ultimania says about the high affection version. They're using the following line to say that Cloud and Tifa's love can be verified in the game:

'In the situation with higher emotion, those two who remained at the airship will verify the feelings they have for each other. This is the last thing Tifa says in such conversation. Right after the line, the smile on Tifa’s face which seems to accept everything is impressive.'

I was saying that this line doesn't specify *what* feelings are verified between Cloud and Tifa, so we can't assume that the feelings they verify are romantic feelings. For all we know, the feelings they verify could be feelings of friendship, feelings of mutual support, or feelings of fear about tomorrow's battle. It doesn't have to mean romantic feelings. In the second place, the book specifies that these feelings are verified *only* in the high affection version, which means that the feelings are optional.

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When it comes to Final Fantasy you can't assume anything. Even if that assumption would be correct 99% of the time. Even if your own "translators" have given you a dozen similar quotes. NONE OF THEM MEAN ROMANCE.


Then again I do find it funny how the rejection thing still comes up. Even after a veritable glut of romantic sounding quotes.

wkc said:

Are you jumping to the conclusion that "were you watching" means that they were kissing or having sex? nono.gif Why does it have to mean that? If Cloud rejected Tifa, it's very likely that she started crying. Would Tifa want her friends to watch that?

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Yes in the "high affection" version of the HW scene Cloud rejects Tifa and she cries. That is why she was embarrassed.


And of course good ole fashioned outright contradicting direct creator statements.

wkc said:

I have to say I'm wondering about this line: "Right after the line, the smile on Tifa’s face which seems to accept everything is impressive."

In the first place, Tifa doesn't look like she's smiling to me. If anything, she looks somewhat dejected:

user posted image

In the second place, it says that she intends to "accept everything". Does that mean that she is ready to accept Cloud's reaction, no matter what his reaction is?

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Yes in the "high affection" version of the HW scene Cloud rejects Tifa and she cries. That is why she was embarrassed.

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So much for mutual feelings.

'In the situation with higher emotion, those two who remained at the airship will verify the feelings they have for each other. This is the last thing Tifa says in such conversation. Right after the line, the smile on Tifa’s face which seems to accept everything is impressive.'

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.. what?

EDIT:
OMG

someone said:

Young Cloud's logic in a nutshell. Tifa was the town's princess. Cloud was an outcast. Get in good with the princess and earn everyone else's love and respect. That's it. Nowhere does he single out Tifa's affection as his goal; she was a means to an end.

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YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP.

Oh FFS. Who wrote that Q? They need to be beaten severely.

As for the Engrish quote, I've always wondered what it would say if someone like hito or tres were to translate. *hint*

Someone who ignores the Ultimanias except for creator interviews

If you have to ignore the Ultimanias to prove your point, that should tell you right there that you're not correct. Also I was told I was "overstating" stuff when I quoted the creators

Quexinos said:

If you have to ignore the Ultimanias to prove your point, that should tell you right there that you're not correct. Also I was told I was "overstating" stuff when I quoted the creators

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We get people at the FFWiki sometimes who ignore certain source materials. We've got a word for those guys - retards.

"Right after the line, the smile on Tifa’s face which seems to accept everything is impressive."

...what the hell does that even mean. AT LEAST FIX IS GRAMMATICALLY SO IT'S READABLE I MEAN FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

Quexinos said:

EDIT:
OMG
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP.

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I love how Cloud is a sociopathic, narcissistic twat who just uses people for his own ends. He's a great anti-hero.

I just wish we got to see that in the game.

'In the situation with higher emotion, those two who remained at the airship will verify the feelings they have for each other.

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I really don't understand why the characters names have been taken out here

ティファのクラウドに対する好感度が高い場合、飛空艇に残ったふたりは、互いを求める気持ちを確かめ合う。

If Tifa's affection towards Cloud is high, when they stay behind on the airship they will both confirm their feelings (desire?)* for each other.

'Feelings they have for each other' seems to miss the point of the line:

互い[1]を[2]求める[3]気持ち[4]

[1] each other
[2] (object marker)
[3] to want
[4] feelings

So 'feelings of wanting each other', then?

If it were 互いが求める気持ち then maybe you could swing it as 'the feelings they each want'. (Though that first bit still makes it sound like it's the same to me, but what do I know. I was born in England and thus my brain is too inferior to understand this stuff )

This is the last thing Tifa says in such conversation.

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This line is spoken by Tifa at the end of that conversation.

このセリフは、そんな会話の最後にティファが口にするもの。

'Such conversation' just sounds awkward

Right after the line, the smile on Tifa’s face which seems to accept everything is impressive.'

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The smile which seems to accept everything, which Tifa shows right after saying it, is impressive. Her all-embracing smile after she says it is quite striking.

告げた直後にティファが浮かべる、すべてを受けいれるような微笑みが印象的だ。

This is why you shouldn't try to be literal

It doesn't say what she was accepting Maybe she's accepting that Cloud wasn't a big hero but she loves him anyway.


If anyone wants to criticise my stuff for sounding awkward or not making sense, so ahead. I know it's people doing this in their spare time and all, but I think it would help everyone if people were more critical about this stuff instead of just accepting what's given regardless as to how it reads.

btw this thread is now for me to voice my opinions on translations

Damn. I guess Cloud and Tifa really desire each other's friendship.

On the subject of 'third wheels;' Kain, Seifer, Seymour, Larsa.

On the subject of 'what feelings;' feelings for each other.

On Tifa's accepting smile; She's accepting Cloud's 'everything', which is why she's worried people saw.

On Cloud being a dick and wanting to use Tifa to become popular- that's not how 'Everyone would have to notice me, but someone in particular' works. He singles Tifa out as being the one he especially wanted to impress.

Where did you run into this WKC individual, BTW? Were they linked to the frontpage, at least? Was the same done with 'someone' as well?

Ryushikaze said:

Where did you run into this WKC individual, BTW? Were they linked to the frontpage, at least?

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Not so much. The topic of conversation sent me spying searching on a certain forum to get their pov. The thread I found and the relevant essays on the subject seem to agree with each other.

Normally you see one or two twisted lines at a time. It's just funny seeing several quotes about the nature of the HW scene in one thread and NONE of them mean anything romantic of course.

Well....

I said I take into account the interviews in them. You really think Nojima, Kitase, and Nomura, have the time to waste putting together all that other fluff you find in there don't you?

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... but she later recanted that statement. And at any rate, there's never been conflicting sources on CxT being in love.

Where did you run into this WKC individual, BTW?

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I'm surprised you can't tell who it is by the writing style. XD

Were they linked to the frontpage, at least? Was the same done with 'someone' as well?

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No, I'm not gonna link her here, she's going to know I was talking about her...

someone said:

Young Cloud's logic in a nutshell. Tifa was the town's princess. Cloud was an outcast. Get in good with the princess and earn everyone else's love and respect. That's it. Nowhere does he single out Tifa's affection as his goal; she was a means to an end.

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So, to get everyone else's love and respect, Cloud decides to impress the town princess by beating up everyone else...? Sounds very counterproductive, unless they think that Tifa really has that much power over everyone.

Quexinos said:

I'm surprised you can't tell who it is by the writing style. XD

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I asked where this exchange took place, not who it was.

No, I'm not gonna link her here, she's going to know I was talking about her...

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Oh, Bah.

Shadowfox said:

So, to get everyone else's love and respect, Cloud decides to impress the town princess by beating up everyone else...? Sounds very counterproductive, unless they think that Tifa really has that much power over everyone.

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She is the 'Princess of Nibleheim', so apparently it's a dictatorship.

I asked where this exchange took place, not who it was.

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There's only one place she posts
EDIT:
Sorry Ryu I thought you meant Vendel's she. My she is someone else

Oh, Bah.

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She's apparently read the Ultimanias anyway.

So, to further engender some discussion, I provide a link to fresh arguments from the CxA forum, that the wild spin may be noted by all. Well, as fresh as anything else there, anyways.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/index.php?showtopic=8515&st=0

You may need a log in to see the page, however, so go find someone with one and steal it from them.

haha those aren't fresh, they're from 2008

Also okay so

互いを求める気持ち = feeling of wanting
互いが求める気持ち = feelings that they want? Is that right? There's only one tiny difference.

Quexinos said:

haha those aren't fresh, they're from 2008

Also okay so

互いを求める気持ち = feeling of wanting
互いが求める気持ち = feelings that they want? Is that right? There's only one tiny difference.

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It's the particle. the を indicated that the feelings of wanting are directed mutually, the が just that the feelings are shared by both.

Quexinos said:

haha those aren't fresh, they're from 2008

Also okay so

互いを求める気持ち = feeling of wanting
互いが求める気持ち = feelings that they want? Is that right? There's only one tiny difference.

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The first is feelings of wanting each other. The second is feelings that they both want.

Actually, there might not be that much of a difference after all

I'm confused about this discussion. Which one is the actual text?

And how do you know they aren't both desiring pumpkin pie? Pumpkin pie is awesome, especially when I make it.

Isabella said:

I'm confused about this discussion. Which one is the actual text?

And how do you know they aren't both desiring pumpkin pie? Pumpkin pie is awesome, especially when I make it.

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I want your pumpkin pie!

And also, its obvious that Tifa desires to be rejected and Cloud desires to reject her. Duh. Weren't you paying attention?