The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
That's correct.
Crisis Core Research Thread
- Thread starter Shademp
- Start date
Carlie
CltrAltDelicious
- AKA
- Chloe Frazer
ForceStealer
Double Growth
No one gets her off like Hecatonchier, though.
Shademp
420
- I've been waiting to finally spot this. Remember the signs on the SOLDIER floor that switch from lower case letters to upper case in the transition from the Japanese to the English game?
In Angeal DMW Scene #4, we see both these signs. However, even the English DMW scene still uses the Japanese signs with lower case letters.
- When you get to the Nibel plains, you get this mail:
Remember the G Reports in Dirge of Cerberus?
Not only has Shinra failed to delete the Genesis fanclub, but there is another clear retcon here. The only times Zack is assigned to pursue Genesis is when he is a 2nd Class SOLDIER, in the mission to Wutai and the mission to Banora. When Zack defeats Genesis at the end of Crisis Core, he is not there on a top-secret mission from the company. If Dirge of Cerberus is ever re-released, the G Reports (and some NPC dialogue on the Shera) will have to be vastly rewritten.
In Angeal DMW Scene #4, we see both these signs. However, even the English DMW scene still uses the Japanese signs with lower case letters.
- When you get to the Nibel plains, you get this mail:
Remember the G Reports in Dirge of Cerberus?
Not only has Shinra failed to delete the Genesis fanclub, but there is another clear retcon here. The only times Zack is assigned to pursue Genesis is when he is a 2nd Class SOLDIER, in the mission to Wutai and the mission to Banora. When Zack defeats Genesis at the end of Crisis Core, he is not there on a top-secret mission from the company. If Dirge of Cerberus is ever re-released, the G Reports (and some NPC dialogue on the Shera) will have to be vastly rewritten.
Shademp
420
*facepalm*
My bad. I forgot that part entirely. True, the G Report could be referring to the Modeoheim mission. Thanks.
I'm really tired today.
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Shademp
420
- According to the CC Ultimania, the Gun Bull Head names on the Nibel plains are references to Blitzball players from FFX. Huh.
- At the Gongaga reactor, there is a "minigame" where you strike down fences and barrels to get treasure. The typical treasures are 6000 gil, 1x Hypno Crown, 1x Osmoga and 1x Zeio Nut. These are the only treasures mentioned in Absolute Steve's guide. Oh, and you fight two Griffons.
However in the Japanese game, I have managed to randomly get two extra rewards: 2000 gil and a MAG Mako Stone. These were gained when the last treasure chest had been unlocked, when either of the Griffons (who jump out of the chests) was the final part of the minigame.
I can't figure out the conditions for gaining these extra rewards though and have not been able to trigger it in the English game at all. Not finding the proper page in the CC Ultimania, I instead looked in the CC Complete Guide and found a section about this minigame on page 743.
- Photo from page 743
Obviously I need some help here. I don't require a detailed translation, just an explanation of what the mechanics are that determine whether you get those extra rewards or not.
- Cissnei says "I'll give you ten minutes, after that I return to the Turks". Two minutes later she says "you have five minutes left". SHE CAN'T KEEP TRACK OF TIME! WORST TURK EVER!
- At the Gongaga reactor, there is a "minigame" where you strike down fences and barrels to get treasure. The typical treasures are 6000 gil, 1x Hypno Crown, 1x Osmoga and 1x Zeio Nut. These are the only treasures mentioned in Absolute Steve's guide. Oh, and you fight two Griffons.
However in the Japanese game, I have managed to randomly get two extra rewards: 2000 gil and a MAG Mako Stone. These were gained when the last treasure chest had been unlocked, when either of the Griffons (who jump out of the chests) was the final part of the minigame.
I can't figure out the conditions for gaining these extra rewards though and have not been able to trigger it in the English game at all. Not finding the proper page in the CC Ultimania, I instead looked in the CC Complete Guide and found a section about this minigame on page 743.
- Photo from page 743
Obviously I need some help here. I don't require a detailed translation, just an explanation of what the mechanics are that determine whether you get those extra rewards or not.
- Cissnei says "I'll give you ten minutes, after that I return to the Turks". Two minutes later she says "you have five minutes left". SHE CAN'T KEEP TRACK OF TIME! WORST TURK EVER!
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Genesis is common knowledge, his connection to G is not. To most of the world, he's just a kid from Banora with some talent, not a research project at all. He didn't even know about it. So whoever wrote those reports (do we have any idea who? Omega reports were written by Lucrecia,) never made the connection.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
That the guy that wrote these reports didn't make the connection is fine. The personnel record however doesn't add up. Zack/Sephiroth were never sent to retrieve a research project G, they were sent to kill or capture Genesis. Which was information that was kept from the public, but I wouldn't call it topsecret. Thousands of the Genesis clones were attacking Shinra facilities all over the world. The rank and file Shinra forces knew what was what. Let alone anyone working with SOLDIER in any capacity.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Or maybe G was put on the paperwork in case the document was ever leaked somehow. Lots of common understandings never get put on paper so they can't be definitively proved by a journalist or a judge. IIRC, Genesis had been declared officially dead by that point, so his name on a page might raise awkward questions if the wrong person saw it.
Shademp
420
While I wait for somebody to translate the jist of that section from page 743 of CC The Complete Guide, I may as well write reactions. Or maybe somebody owns an English CC guide that describe how the rewards work here? Anyway...
- Before the "minigame" with the treasure chests at the Gongaga Reactor ruins begin, there is a guy there who tells Zack that his giant sword might be able to get the rubble away so that the treasure can be reached. After telling you this, he disappears.
...Why is this random NPC here? Why, as presumably a Gongaga guy, is he a re-used NPC model? His only role is as a trigger so that Zack can start cutting rubble. This NPC is perfectly pointless though. The player doesn't need to be told anything here! The rubble and the treasures stand out enough as is! The player will understand to approach the rubble and then figure out what to do!
*sigh*
- Separated from the story, the waterfall minigame where you catch treasure chests is "acceptable". It's silly, but you could potentially find an amusing separation here between story and the gameplay. Treasure chests are illogically scattered about everywhere in a majority of video games, so why not have treasure chests come down a waterfall? The minigame on its own is acceptable.
The biggest problem with the minigame at the waterfall is that it is ONLY available after Zack realizes he has to run back to save Cloud.
What could have been a moderately amusing minigame "outside" of the story still decides to acknowledge the story, thus making it perfectly unbelievable that Zack would stick around to catch falling treasure chests instead of running to his friend who is in serious danger.
- A different version of "The Summoned" (which in turn is the CC remix of Those Who Fight Further) plays during the waterfall minigame. The instrumentation is really odd. This version is not included in the CC soundtrack album. =/
- Before the "minigame" with the treasure chests at the Gongaga Reactor ruins begin, there is a guy there who tells Zack that his giant sword might be able to get the rubble away so that the treasure can be reached. After telling you this, he disappears.
...Why is this random NPC here? Why, as presumably a Gongaga guy, is he a re-used NPC model? His only role is as a trigger so that Zack can start cutting rubble. This NPC is perfectly pointless though. The player doesn't need to be told anything here! The rubble and the treasures stand out enough as is! The player will understand to approach the rubble and then figure out what to do!
*sigh*
- Separated from the story, the waterfall minigame where you catch treasure chests is "acceptable". It's silly, but you could potentially find an amusing separation here between story and the gameplay. Treasure chests are illogically scattered about everywhere in a majority of video games, so why not have treasure chests come down a waterfall? The minigame on its own is acceptable.
The biggest problem with the minigame at the waterfall is that it is ONLY available after Zack realizes he has to run back to save Cloud.
What could have been a moderately amusing minigame "outside" of the story still decides to acknowledge the story, thus making it perfectly unbelievable that Zack would stick around to catch falling treasure chests instead of running to his friend who is in serious danger.
- A different version of "The Summoned" (which in turn is the CC remix of Those Who Fight Further) plays during the waterfall minigame. The instrumentation is really odd. This version is not included in the CC soundtrack album. =/
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
That would make the use of G being connected to Project G a complete and utter coincidince. That's not any better. Is this a world where no one can conceive of a means to cover stuff up other then using initials?
Shademp
420
Even when abusing save states, it took me TWO FRIGGIN' HOURS to get Octaslash to be used against the Magic Pot in Mission 7-6-6. -___- Yes, even though I won't be using the Genji Shield that I now acquired from the Magic Pot, I feel COMPELLED to acquire it at this stage now that I finally have Octaslash materia to increase the likelihood of that Power Surge. Difficult to stay positive right now. I should switch to some other game than Crisis Core, very soon. I have been at it with Crisis Core for 2 1/2 months now, so 
Random observation while in mission 7-6-6: When a Gremlin uses Flare, the spell only costs 1 of its MP. Cheating!
EDIT: Yes! I can hardly believe it! In less than an hour I managed to please the Magic Pot twice (that sounds like something a pot smoker would say), first getting a Full Cure materia and then getting the Impervious accessory.
Random observation while in mission 7-6-6: When a Gremlin uses Flare, the spell only costs 1 of its MP. Cheating!
EDIT: Yes! I can hardly believe it! In less than an hour I managed to please the Magic Pot twice (that sounds like something a pot smoker would say), first getting a Full Cure materia and then getting the Impervious accessory.
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Shademp
420
- The maximum number of save files you can keep at one time is 99, numbered 0-98. I have reached that point. Fortunately, it is an easy process to copy the save states into a separate folder, rename "ULES1044DATA98" to "ULES1044DATA0", and start on a new leaf. I will soon do this for the Japanese save files as well.
- In mission 9-6-4, the boss is "Great Malboro". I confirmed this to be so both in the American and the European version. Yet, Steve's guide calls this Malboro "Malboro Great". A bit disappointed this wasn't a version difference.
- VERSION DIFFERENCE:
At the very start of Chapter 10, when Zack has just arrived in Banora, you can speak to Lazard. In the Japanese version when you speak to Lazard for the first time, the camera switches to show the glowing mako pillar you are meant to approach. This camera switch will only happen the first time you speak to Lazard and if you have not left the area. *ACTUALLY NOT! SEE EDIT!*
This camera change to highlight your destination does not happen in the European English game. American version obviously not confirmed.
EDIT: After some further tests, I discovered how this camera glitch actually works in the Japanese game. Right before you gain control over Zack, the camera pans up, then a fade-out and fade-in leads to you controlling Zack. Except that for about two more seconds after the player has control over Zack, the action of the camera panning is still going on in the scene data. If you speak to Lazard during this time, no matter if it's his first, second or third talk-to line, the camera panning scene will play out. You can even see the camera still panning, if you are quick. Once the panning is finished and the camera returns to normal, this glitch is over.
So if you wait two seconds before speaking to Lazard for the first time, the glitch won't happen. I have not managed to trigger this glitch in the English game, even by being super-quick, so this is still a legitimate version difference.
- In mission 9-6-4, the boss is "Great Malboro". I confirmed this to be so both in the American and the European version. Yet, Steve's guide calls this Malboro "Malboro Great". A bit disappointed this wasn't a version difference.
- VERSION DIFFERENCE:
At the very start of Chapter 10, when Zack has just arrived in Banora, you can speak to Lazard. In the Japanese version when you speak to Lazard for the first time, the camera switches to show the glowing mako pillar you are meant to approach. This camera switch will only happen the first time you speak to Lazard and if you have not left the area. *ACTUALLY NOT! SEE EDIT!*
This camera change to highlight your destination does not happen in the European English game. American version obviously not confirmed.
JAPANESE: Camera showing destination
JAPANESE: Same line, no camera change
ENGLISH
JAPANESE: Same line, no camera change
ENGLISH
EDIT: After some further tests, I discovered how this camera glitch actually works in the Japanese game. Right before you gain control over Zack, the camera pans up, then a fade-out and fade-in leads to you controlling Zack. Except that for about two more seconds after the player has control over Zack, the action of the camera panning is still going on in the scene data. If you speak to Lazard during this time, no matter if it's his first, second or third talk-to line, the camera panning scene will play out. You can even see the camera still panning, if you are quick. Once the panning is finished and the camera returns to normal, this glitch is over.
So if you wait two seconds before speaking to Lazard for the first time, the glitch won't happen. I have not managed to trigger this glitch in the English game, even by being super-quick, so this is still a legitimate version difference.
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
This thread is fascinating and I love reading your progress. But I'm fearful that you're going to wholly and completely ruin this game and everything about it for yourself, and that's assuming you haven't already, haha
Shademp
420
- I researched the "camera glitch" further. See the edit in my last post.
- Played ahead and watched the game's ending in the English version. Not because of research, but simply to enjoy the ending. I like freshing up my memory on this final cave, which albeit enjoyable I have always found difficult to remember. Could be because so much of the gameplay experience is taken up by all those missions. Actually, I will write a lengthier post later as to why the elements of the final cave are so easily forgotten.
- In the final gameplay segment, Aerith lines up in Zack's DMW reel after all the other faces are gone. If Sephiroth had a DMW, it would be Cloud who lined up when the original game ends. See On the Way to a Smile – Lifestream Black and Lifestream White:
- In mission 9-6-5, you fight Mock Trooper A, B and C. A represent G Copies, B represent Shinra troops (infantrymen) and C represent Wutai troops.
Steve's guide incorrectly lists A and C as "Mock Soldier" instead of "Mock Trooper". I will get around eventually to emailing Steve about all the corrections that should be made to the guide.
- With mission 9-6-5 completed (in the English version) Minerva is finally available! It feels so awesome! Extremely fitting that I made Minerva available immediately after entering the "Depths of Judgment" cave which is the area that is (re)used for the Minerva battle.
- Played ahead and watched the game's ending in the English version. Not because of research, but simply to enjoy the ending. I like freshing up my memory on this final cave, which albeit enjoyable I have always found difficult to remember. Could be because so much of the gameplay experience is taken up by all those missions. Actually, I will write a lengthier post later as to why the elements of the final cave are so easily forgotten.
- In the final gameplay segment, Aerith lines up in Zack's DMW reel after all the other faces are gone. If Sephiroth had a DMW, it would be Cloud who lined up when the original game ends.
See On the Way to a Smile – Lifestream Black and Lifestream White:Just a fun visualization. ...Wouldn't it be fun to design DMW reels for different characters? Just give the DMW a black and grey color scheme and you have Sephiroth's DMW. Black and red gives you Tifa. Red, orange and yellow gives you Nanaki DMW reel. Hehe, that's fun to imagine.
- In mission 9-6-5, you fight Mock Trooper A, B and C. A represent G Copies, B represent Shinra troops (infantrymen) and C represent Wutai troops.
Steve's guide incorrectly lists A and C as "Mock Soldier" instead of "Mock Trooper". I will get around eventually to emailing Steve about all the corrections that should be made to the guide.
- With mission 9-6-5 completed (in the English version) Minerva is finally available! It feels so awesome!
Extremely fitting that I made Minerva available immediately after entering the "Depths of Judgment" cave which is the area that is (re)used for the Minerva battle.I wonder if the developers actually intend for the Depths of Judgment to be the caves beneath the Northern Crater or if there was laziness at work here.
After the reunion event in the original game, Cloud washes up on the Mideel shore. My impression (not checking with sources right now) is that the lifestream of the Northern Crater was connected to the Mideel area, Cloud's body drifted through the lifestream, up into the ocean and finally to the shore.
One could use this fact from the original game as an excuse for the existence of vast underground caverns that connect Banora and the Northern Cave. The only part I dislike about this concept is that Crisis Core doesn't give you the impression that Zack journeys countless of miles from the Banora Underground to the "Depths of Judgment".
That's not the last of it. In the cave with the giant tree and the red orb, Genesis refers to the orb as "The gift of the goddess... A heavenly boon found only in Banora". He refers to them as still being in Banora. So... Did Zack just go underground all the way to the Northern Cave (which is where we find Emerald Weapon)...and BACK to Banora?! The scenario sounds extremely roundabout as far as travelling distance goes. The game does not make clear if teleportations are going on.
After the reunion event in the original game, Cloud washes up on the Mideel shore. My impression (not checking with sources right now) is that the lifestream of the Northern Crater was connected to the Mideel area, Cloud's body drifted through the lifestream, up into the ocean and finally to the shore.
One could use this fact from the original game as an excuse for the existence of vast underground caverns that connect Banora and the Northern Cave. The only part I dislike about this concept is that Crisis Core doesn't give you the impression that Zack journeys countless of miles from the Banora Underground to the "Depths of Judgment".
That's not the last of it. In the cave with the giant tree and the red orb, Genesis refers to the orb as "The gift of the goddess... A heavenly boon found only in Banora". He refers to them as still being in Banora. So... Did Zack just go underground all the way to the Northern Cave (which is where we find Emerald Weapon)...and BACK to Banora?! The scenario sounds extremely roundabout as far as travelling distance goes. The game does not make clear if teleportations are going on.
Thank you, I'm glad to read this. =)
Even if I do lose my taste for this game, it will be worth the reward of having done the research, made all these discoveries and having had people enjoy this journey with me.
Shademp
420
- I always assumed that the "Mock Troopers" were the actual troopers turned into zombies. But what if it's not the actual bodies being re-used, but the lifestream (or "mysterious energy" that is referred to in the mission reports) that re-constitutes the shells of the fallen troops and makes them super-strong? Like the Sephiroth remnants, except this time with the normal lifestream. The name "mock" in "mock troopers" is what got me thinking this right now.
In the Japanese game, the A, B and C troopers are called α [alfa], β [beta] and γ [gamma] respectively. Honestly that looks better. In the English game, the name often ends up being something like "Trooper A A" or "Trooper B D" or "Trooper C A" which in my eyes is aesthetically displeasing.
In the Japanese game, the A, B and C troopers are called α [alfa], β [beta] and γ [gamma] respectively. Honestly that looks better. In the English game, the name often ends up being something like "Trooper A A" or "Trooper B D" or "Trooper C A" which in my eyes is aesthetically displeasing.
Shademp
420
- When the first battle segment in the wastelands fades to black (when Zack fight hordes of infantrymen + helicopters) the theme "Price of Freedom" will fade out while gun fire and explosion are heard. If you pause the game while the music fades out, the music will still complete the fade-out. This means you can hear the gun fire without the background music earlier on, if you do decide to pause the game here.
- The final dungeon is coated with religious names, complemented by the Virgin Mary-type statue.
The area names alone have that apocalyptic-gloomy religious connotation to them:
-- Depths of Judgment
-- Lake of Oblivion
-- Howling Fang
-- Cage of Binding
-- Portal of Severance
-- Light of Doom
Once you jump down from the Banora Ruins, seven areas are available to you: The six listed above, plus the Factory Basement. Wouldn't surprise me if the number seven was intentional here.
In Lake of Oblivion there are five mako springs, showing a very interesting phenomenon.
It's like a reverse formation of a crystalline stalactite. I very much enjoy this.
The final dungeon has a total of four LOVELESS inscriptions: The Prologue, Act I, Act II and Act III.
Genesis quotes Act IV (not present as an inscription in the final dungeon) in the Shinra HQ Laboratory scene.
If I'm getting this right, then, it is the fifth act that is missing. I know I could just look up the wiki page about LOVELESS, but I want to explore the LOVELESS quotes from the game on my own first. There is no other way I'm going to remember LOVELESS.
The inscriptions sometimes sound like quotes, other times like summaries. Genesis quotes a different passage of Act I in the Sephiroth-Angeal-Genesis FMV.
For each of the first three LOVELESS inscriptions you read in the final dungeon, you unlock one G "Makonoid" fight in Lake of Oblivion. Examine any mako spring to trigger a battle. When you read the fourth and final LOVELESS inscription, no matter which one it is, two makonoid battles are unlocked.
Four of the makonoids are named after regions from the 9th circle of Hell, the circle of treachery, as described in La Divina Commedia. The fifth makonoid is named "Lucifero" (which is the italian way of writing "Lucifer"), the name of everybody's favorite guy.
I pasted together two snapshots of the Lake of Oblivion map and matched the G makonoid names with their locations.
When at first I thought LOVELESS only had the five acts of the Prologue and Act 1-4, I figured that the difference of four inscriptions and five mako springs has the fifth mako spring represent the lost act of LOVELESS, ergo why two battles are unlocked. But if Act V is the missing act (as is my impression from the Shinra HQ scene) then the above theory only works if we don't count the prologue as an "act". Five makonoids, five mako springs, five numbered acts, only four inscriptions (with the known Act IV missing, plus the unknown Act V).
To top it off with the religious names, the limit break of the Genesis Avatar is "Purgatorial Wave". Couple that with the limit break of "normal" Genesis, which is of course "Apocalypse". The Apocalypse DMW spelling matches that of the Apocalypse limit break in the final fight. In other words the spelling mistakes in the Japanese game are the same in both cases and the corrections for the English game are the same in both the DMW and the final battle.
- The final dungeon is coated with religious names, complemented by the Virgin Mary-type statue.
The area names alone have that apocalyptic-gloomy religious connotation to them:
-- Depths of Judgment
-- Lake of Oblivion
-- Howling Fang
-- Cage of Binding
-- Portal of Severance
-- Light of Doom
Once you jump down from the Banora Ruins, seven areas are available to you: The six listed above, plus the Factory Basement. Wouldn't surprise me if the number seven was intentional here.
In Lake of Oblivion there are five mako springs, showing a very interesting phenomenon.
It's like a reverse formation of a crystalline stalactite. I very much enjoy this.
The final dungeon has a total of four LOVELESS inscriptions: The Prologue, Act I, Act II and Act III.
Genesis quotes Act IV (not present as an inscription in the final dungeon) in the Shinra HQ Laboratory scene.
My friend, the fates are cruel
There are no dreams, no honor remains
The arrow has left the bow of the goddess
...
"LOVELESS", Act IV
Hojo: Where the two friends challenge each other to a duel.
An ancient epic.
I read it thinking it might aid my research, but...pure drivel.
Angeal: How does the duel end?
Hojo: "Unknown. The last act is missing, and yet to be discovered.
There are no dreams, no honor remains
The arrow has left the bow of the goddess
...
"LOVELESS", Act IV
Hojo: Where the two friends challenge each other to a duel.
An ancient epic.
I read it thinking it might aid my research, but...pure drivel.
Angeal: How does the duel end?
Hojo: "Unknown. The last act is missing, and yet to be discovered.
If I'm getting this right, then, it is the fifth act that is missing. I know I could just look up the wiki page about LOVELESS, but I want to explore the LOVELESS quotes from the game on my own first. There is no other way I'm going to remember LOVELESS.
The inscriptions sometimes sound like quotes, other times like summaries. Genesis quotes a different passage of Act I in the Sephiroth-Angeal-Genesis FMV.
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the goddess
We seek it thus, and take to the skies
Ripples form on the water's surface
The wandering soul knows no rest
We seek it thus, and take to the skies
Ripples form on the water's surface
The wandering soul knows no rest
For each of the first three LOVELESS inscriptions you read in the final dungeon, you unlock one G "Makonoid" fight in Lake of Oblivion. Examine any mako spring to trigger a battle. When you read the fourth and final LOVELESS inscription, no matter which one it is, two makonoid battles are unlocked.
Four of the makonoids are named after regions from the 9th circle of Hell, the circle of treachery, as described in La Divina Commedia. The fifth makonoid is named "Lucifero" (which is the italian way of writing "Lucifer"), the name of everybody's favorite guy.
I pasted together two snapshots of the Lake of Oblivion map and matched the G makonoid names with their locations.
When at first I thought LOVELESS only had the five acts of the Prologue and Act 1-4, I figured that the difference of four inscriptions and five mako springs has the fifth mako spring represent the lost act of LOVELESS, ergo why two battles are unlocked. But if Act V is the missing act (as is my impression from the Shinra HQ scene) then the above theory only works if we don't count the prologue as an "act". Five makonoids, five mako springs, five numbered acts, only four inscriptions (with the known Act IV missing, plus the unknown Act V).
To top it off with the religious names, the limit break of the Genesis Avatar is "Purgatorial Wave". Couple that with the limit break of "normal" Genesis, which is of course "Apocalypse". The Apocalypse DMW spelling matches that of the Apocalypse limit break in the final fight. In other words the spelling mistakes in the Japanese game are the same in both cases and the corrections for the English game are the same in both the DMW and the final battle.
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Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
the makonoid 'g fine' in japanese is called 'Ｇエンド' which if you read it out sounds like ジ・エンド (the end)
i found that amusing because it doesn't take much to amuse me evidently
i found that amusing because it doesn't take much to amuse me evidently
Shademp
420
- Reminder of mystery from last page. Translation request! More translation requests below.
- There is a laboratory in the prison area ("Cage of Binding") where you can fight four circulating materia.
Every materia uses magic. Their abilities do not reflect their color, with the exception of the green materia. Only the yellow and green materia drop anything: Hi-Potion (common) and X-Potion (rare).
Defeating them gives way little EXP, SP and gil. The encounter can be repeated over and over and they are limited to this laboratory room. You can't steal anything from them.
Their presence is incredibly teasing because you feel like there is a secret RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. Defeat the materia in the correct order and get a bigger reward? Defeat them under some other condition? I did try defeating each colored materia using matching materia against them (used Phoenix to defeat the Red Materia) but I did not get anything special from it.
Even the CC Complete Guide does not seem to highlight any big secret here. With the Gongaga Reactor treasure minigame, the highlight was clear in the book even to somebody who doesn't read Japanese. But with these four mystery materia, I'm not sure.
I photographed the descriptions to each materia from the Bestiary of the Complete Guide, in hopes that maybe there is a reveal about a bigger reward that can be gained from defeating these materia under the right conditions.
- Green Materia
- Blue Materia
- Red Materia
- Yellow Materia
If there really is no bigger reward or secret here I will be very disappointed and annoyed. It will be like the game is yelling at me about the existence of an unfinished sidequest!
- There is a laboratory in the prison area ("Cage of Binding") where you can fight four circulating materia.
Every materia uses magic. Their abilities do not reflect their color, with the exception of the green materia. Only the yellow and green materia drop anything: Hi-Potion (common) and X-Potion (rare).
Defeating them gives way little EXP, SP and gil. The encounter can be repeated over and over and they are limited to this laboratory room. You can't steal anything from them.
Their presence is incredibly teasing because you feel like there is a secret RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. Defeat the materia in the correct order and get a bigger reward? Defeat them under some other condition? I did try defeating each colored materia using matching materia against them (used Phoenix to defeat the Red Materia) but I did not get anything special from it.
Even the CC Complete Guide does not seem to highlight any big secret here. With the Gongaga Reactor treasure minigame, the highlight was clear in the book even to somebody who doesn't read Japanese. But with these four mystery materia, I'm not sure.
I photographed the descriptions to each materia from the Bestiary of the Complete Guide, in hopes that maybe there is a reveal about a bigger reward that can be gained from defeating these materia under the right conditions.
- Green Materia
- Blue Materia
- Red Materia
- Yellow Materia
If there really is no bigger reward or secret here I will be very disappointed and annoyed. It will be like the game is yelling at me about the existence of an unfinished sidequest!
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
those descriptions for the materia just tell you a bit about beating them. but that starred note at the bottom of each chart says that if you don't have a phoenix tail when you defeat them they're guaranteed to drop 'this' item. i can't see what the mark (※
is referring to, so i'm assuming it's a phoenix tail (フェニックスの尾?
2000 gil
zeio nut
osmoga? (aspiga, the mp absorbing ability)
magic mako stone
when you defeat the second griffon, you get the remaining items
is referring to, so i'm assuming it's a phoenix tail (フェニックスの尾? the first griffon fight will give you a few a couple of the following items at random:
2000 gil
zeio nut
osmoga? (aspiga, the mp absorbing ability)
magic mako stone
when you defeat the second griffon, you get the remaining items
Shademp
420
CONFIRMED!those descriptions for the materia just tell you a bit about beating them. but that starred note at the bottom of each chart says that if you don't have a phoenix tail when you defeat them they're guaranteed to drop 'this' item. i can't see what the mark (※
Thank you so much!If there are zero Phoenix Down in your inventory, defeating a materia will give you a Phoenix Down. If you defeat multiple materia at once (causing the next defeat before the "Received Phoenix Down" text box from the first defeat is gone) you will receive multiple Phoenix Down. Defeat all materia at the same time in order to get four Phoenix Downs.
EDIT: Indeed, this info is not included in Absolute Steve's CC guide and I will make sure he adds it.
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Shademp
420
- Huge Materia like those in the laboratory can be summoned by Sephiroth in his first form. These materia have different names, stats, AI etc from those in the Banora prison laboratory.
Green - Support Materia
Red - Fire Materia
Yellow - Thunder Materia
Blue - Blizzard Materia
It irks me that the green one is called "Support Materia". >___<
Matching the color to the magic is more in style with the Dirge of Cerberus way of materia coloring, where the color corresponds to the element rather than Green = Any Magic.
- Almost confirmed version difference: I have revisited the treasure chests in Gongaga and STILL can't get the reward of 2000 gil and/or MAG Mako Stone in the English European version. I am ever more convinced that these rewards were removed for the English game. If not removed, then the probability of getting them has been lowered immensely.
I wonder if the CC Complete Guide is in fact telling the "complete" truth, but using save states it is clear that the RNG determining whether you get those 2000 gil and/or the MAG Mako Stone is not set when a Griffon battle starts. Every time, the extra reward would not be given if I did not defeat the Griffon immediately.
You always get the Zeio Nut from the same Griffon and the Osmoga from the same Griffon. This doesn't change in the Japanese version either. The only thing that changes is the random drop of 2000 gil and/or 1x MAG Mako Stone after the battle. Sometimes you get both rewards from one Griffon, sometimes you get just the one, sometimes you get neither. You can do both Griffon battles and end up only with the usual Zeio Nut and the Osmoga.
- Another mistake in Steve's CC bestiary: He lists an enemy as being called "Experiment 112" when it is in fact "Experiment No. 112". I doubt this is a version difference. In the bestiary all the other Hojo samples are called "Experiment No. X".
- In the Cage of Binding, the Banora Underground Prison, the player collects the following keys by defeating the right type of enemy on the way:
These names, with the exception of the Wing key, correspond to the seven commonly known chakras or energy nodes of the human body, as described in various forms of yoga and inspired practices and teachings.
In gates from one prison area to the next is imprinted the image of the goddess and a key is needed to unlock that door. The goddess image will glow, then cease to glow along with the "scars" on the door. If you open the doors in the correct order (there is really only one time when the order can be messed up) then you will open them from the bottom chakra and up: Base, Sacral, Solar, Heart, Throat, Third Eye and Crown.
After making your way through the Cage of Binding and getting back to the Howling Fang, collecting the keys corresponding to the seven chakras as well as the Laboratory Key and the Iron Bars Key, you battle Behemoth King and receive the Goddess Wing Key. The gate beyond this point has a wing imprint instead of the goddess image. Opening it reveals the alternate path to the Portal of Severance.
I speculate that the game developers want you to pay attention to the symbolism and religious concepts relevant to the journey of Genesis. Recall that Genesis quotes this bit once you enter the Light of Doom:
Crisis Core essentially begins with Genesis feeling betrayed by Shinra and his family. He exacts his vengeance, kills the people who raised him, and continues feeling a general resentment towards the world. His line "If this world seeks my destruction, it goes with me", *almost* makes sense here because it does reflect Genesis's perception of himself as the world's victim, but because he never literally seeks the destruction of the world this line still sounds clunky.
Recall the monsters in the Lake of Oblivion, which had names taken from the regions of the ninth circle of hell, the circle of treachery. The Lake of Oblivion could very well represent Genesis's perception of being betrayed: The treachery of Shinra and those who raised Genesis led to him becoming corrupted by vengeance.
Obviously, the "hath endured torment" bit reflects his degradation. Genesis continuously seeks the gift of the goddess. The term "divine grace" springs to mind when trying to interpret what the gift of the goddess is. Salvation. Redemption. Enlightenment. Nirvana. Ascencion.
That the Cage of Binding is knit with the names of the seven human chakras, plus a wing "chakra" reserved to people like Genesis, is probably not a coincidence. For each door opened in the Cage of Binding, one could imagine that a chakra is unlocked: The node/wheel of human energy is allowed to flow freely and the individual is one step closer to enlightenment/ascencion/Nirvana. The word "severance" has the synonym "detachment" which is a key word in Buddhist philosophy of achieving Nirvana. The penultimate area then, "Portal of Severance", may just as well be called "Portal of Detachment".
It is my theory that the developers wanted the player to pay attention to the religious themes and names of the final area, to connect the dots and see how it represents the journey of Genesis. Alongside his wish to re-enact LOVELESS, we have a religious story of wanting to acquire heavenly grace.
Given the history in Final Fantasy games, and J-RPGs in general, that the main characters end up defying divine deities or those who wish to emulate divine judgment, I do not believe that Genesis receiving the gift of the goddess is a good thing. I thank Tres for, very long ago, making me pay attention to this detail in the as-of-yet unfinished arc of Genesis.
Green - Support Materia
Red - Fire Materia
Yellow - Thunder Materia
Blue - Blizzard Materia
It irks me that the green one is called "Support Materia". >___<
Matching the color to the magic is more in style with the Dirge of Cerberus way of materia coloring, where the color corresponds to the element rather than Green = Any Magic.
- Almost confirmed version difference: I have revisited the treasure chests in Gongaga and STILL can't get the reward of 2000 gil and/or MAG Mako Stone in the English European version. I am ever more convinced that these rewards were removed for the English game. If not removed, then the probability of getting them has been lowered immensely.
I wonder if the CC Complete Guide is in fact telling the "complete" truth, but using save states it is clear that the RNG determining whether you get those 2000 gil and/or the MAG Mako Stone is not set when a Griffon battle starts. Every time, the extra reward would not be given if I did not defeat the Griffon immediately.
You always get the Zeio Nut from the same Griffon and the Osmoga from the same Griffon. This doesn't change in the Japanese version either. The only thing that changes is the random drop of 2000 gil and/or 1x MAG Mako Stone after the battle. Sometimes you get both rewards from one Griffon, sometimes you get just the one, sometimes you get neither. You can do both Griffon battles and end up only with the usual Zeio Nut and the Osmoga.
- Another mistake in Steve's CC bestiary: He lists an enemy as being called "Experiment 112" when it is in fact "Experiment No. 112". I doubt this is a version difference. In the bestiary all the other Hojo samples are called "Experiment No. X".
- In the Cage of Binding, the Banora Underground Prison, the player collects the following keys by defeating the right type of enemy on the way:
Goddess Base Key
Goddess Sacral Key
Goddess Solar Key
Goddess Heart Key
Goddess Throat Key
Goddess Third Eye Key
Goddess Crown Key
Goddess Wing Key
Goddess Sacral Key
Goddess Solar Key
Goddess Heart Key
Goddess Throat Key
Goddess Third Eye Key
Goddess Crown Key
Goddess Wing Key
These names, with the exception of the Wing key, correspond to the seven commonly known chakras or energy nodes of the human body, as described in various forms of yoga and inspired practices and teachings.
In gates from one prison area to the next is imprinted the image of the goddess and a key is needed to unlock that door. The goddess image will glow, then cease to glow along with the "scars" on the door. If you open the doors in the correct order (there is really only one time when the order can be messed up) then you will open them from the bottom chakra and up: Base, Sacral, Solar, Heart, Throat, Third Eye and Crown.
After making your way through the Cage of Binding and getting back to the Howling Fang, collecting the keys corresponding to the seven chakras as well as the Laboratory Key and the Iron Bars Key, you battle Behemoth King and receive the Goddess Wing Key. The gate beyond this point has a wing imprint instead of the goddess image. Opening it reveals the alternate path to the Portal of Severance.
I speculate that the game developers want you to pay attention to the symbolism and religious concepts relevant to the journey of Genesis. Recall that Genesis quotes this bit once you enter the Light of Doom:
My soul, corrupted by vengeance
Hath endured torment, to find the end of the journey
In my own salvation
Hath endured torment, to find the end of the journey
In my own salvation
Crisis Core essentially begins with Genesis feeling betrayed by Shinra and his family. He exacts his vengeance, kills the people who raised him, and continues feeling a general resentment towards the world. His line "If this world seeks my destruction, it goes with me", *almost* makes sense here because it does reflect Genesis's perception of himself as the world's victim, but because he never literally seeks the destruction of the world this line still sounds clunky.
Recall the monsters in the Lake of Oblivion, which had names taken from the regions of the ninth circle of hell, the circle of treachery. The Lake of Oblivion could very well represent Genesis's perception of being betrayed: The treachery of Shinra and those who raised Genesis led to him becoming corrupted by vengeance.
Obviously, the "hath endured torment" bit reflects his degradation. Genesis continuously seeks the gift of the goddess. The term "divine grace" springs to mind when trying to interpret what the gift of the goddess is. Salvation. Redemption. Enlightenment. Nirvana. Ascencion.
That the Cage of Binding is knit with the names of the seven human chakras, plus a wing "chakra" reserved to people like Genesis, is probably not a coincidence. For each door opened in the Cage of Binding, one could imagine that a chakra is unlocked: The node/wheel of human energy is allowed to flow freely and the individual is one step closer to enlightenment/ascencion/Nirvana. The word "severance" has the synonym "detachment" which is a key word in Buddhist philosophy of achieving Nirvana. The penultimate area then, "Portal of Severance", may just as well be called "Portal of Detachment".
It is my theory that the developers wanted the player to pay attention to the religious themes and names of the final area, to connect the dots and see how it represents the journey of Genesis. Alongside his wish to re-enact LOVELESS, we have a religious story of wanting to acquire heavenly grace.
Given the history in Final Fantasy games, and J-RPGs in general, that the main characters end up defying divine deities or those who wish to emulate divine judgment, I do not believe that Genesis receiving the gift of the goddess is a good thing. I thank Tres for, very long ago, making me pay attention to this detail in the as-of-yet unfinished arc of Genesis.
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Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
Even in the OG this is the case. The Weapons try to take out humanity along with trying to take out Jenova. Holy is capable of stopping Meteor, but no one knows what else it will do. Everything that Holy does is left up to the whims of whatever-the-planet-is. It's even speculated Holy itself might wipe humanity out. There's a lot of stuff the Planet is, but benevolent isn't one of them. Pragmatic on the other hand... the Planet survives by making life, and then depending on that life dying for it to get more of itself back. Shin-Ra is evil because it's directly destroying the Planet by destroying mako, which is exactly what Jenova was doing in the first place. I get the feeling that Genesis is another one of those things that's good for the Planet, but not necessarily humanity.Shademp said:
To be honest, this is something I think Cloud and Co. and Berahgin didn't really stop and think about in the OG. What's good for humanity and what's good for the Planet/Lifestream aren't mutually inclusive, but that's how it's presented in the OG. One of the things I actually liked about DoC was how it flipped the idea of "what's better for the environment is better for humanity" on it's head. In terms of powerful supernatural forces, the only big hitter left in the FFVII 'verse is the Planet/Lifestream itself. Actually, having the Planet/Lifestream be the enemy in the next game would actually be interesting story-wise...