Crisis Core Research Thread

[Shademp]

- Due to my playstyle of overlevelling I have never lost against Sephiroth. For this reason it was only a few days ago that I (intentionally) first triggered the Game Over scenario from being driven to the edge of the platform in the Nibel reactor. Because I'm too stubborn/lazy to find a proper recording device, here is a gif showing the jist of the cutscene that is triggered when Sephiroth reaches the edge.

Spoiler

- Funny thing I noticed about the Sephiroth AI. When never attacking and when the DMW is not rolling (under Cursed effect) Sephiroth never uses his Octaslash limit break.


- Version Difference

Sephiroth's laugh is subtitled in the Japanese version but not so in the English game.

My guess here is that the Japanese クックックッ represents a sound, rather than what it is actually spelled out as (in google translate it becomes "Kukkukku~tsu"). The English "ha ha ha", when accompanied by the actual sound, typically makes the sound it is spelled as, ergo why it is not present in the English game. Sephiroth's laugh is more of a "hmph hmph hmph" in both versions of the game.


- Version Difference: Border change in Mission 9-5-5.

Spoiler

JAPANESE

ENGLISH

The area that was made inaccessible has no treasure chests in the Japanese game. All you can find are enemy encounters in the typical hot spot.

The boss of the mission is in the top left area. To avoid triggering the battle so you can explore the area beyond, you have to stay REALLY close to the walls. Much finesse required. Maybe play testers thought that the area beyond the monster was inaccessible and so the border was changed for the English game. Either that or they simply, rightly so, considered that bit of the map to be pointless.

 

[Airling]

I love how smug Sephiroth looks. It mysteriously amuses me.

 

[Shademp]

I love how smug Sephiroth looks. It mysteriously amuses me.

Spoiler: For your viewing pleasure

 

[Strangelove]

クックックッ is kind of a low/quiet evil laugh/sniggering.

there was actually a well known example of it in ff7

 

[Shademp]

- Glitch/Bug: Cloud disappears

After having placed Cloud on the bed, he will normally remain there even after you leave the room. However if you look through the keyhole to the west/left on the 2nd floor and then return to the room where Cloud is supposed to be, he is no longer there!

What happens is that when you look through the keyhole on the upper west area, the game re-uses the same room as the one Cloud is in. Because this room is used for the minigame with the digits to the safe, Cloud's model (and talk-to script) is cancelled in favor of the banora apples and banora cans that appear in the context of the minigame. When you stop looking through the keyhole, the banora apples and cans are cancelled but Cloud is not restored. This is true for both the Japanese and the English game.

I do not know if there are agreed upon differences between "glitches" and "bugs" or if they are used interchangeably even by experts on the matter. What is certain is that the bug with Cloud disappearing would have been avoided if the play testers and the debuggers had done more "debugging".

I have seen no mention of this bug elsewhere on the web.

 

[Shademp]

With that tool you just need the discimg.pkg from inside the crisis core iso (you will need to mount with daemon tools if you haven't already) then click on extract, and it will dump everything. Click repack to rebuild it.

Just make sure that you only put back files that are the same size or smaller, otherwise it won't inject.

Once you've dumped all the files you want, rename the folder to discimg.pkg Extracte (or similar) and create an empty folder called discimg.pkg Extracted, and place your altered files in here. It will speed up the rebuilding process.

I postponed following this post for a really long time because I was dreading the installation of Daemon Tools. ...Only to now realize that I already had Daemon Tools Lite.

I am only able to find an Extract function in Noesis though. Can't find a Repack button.


After dumping the discimg.pkg files I get many exciting folders with the game's content. The audio folder has the only files that I can listen to without any additional tools. They are wav files that play just fine in PotPlayer and they contain the voice acting! It's really cool to hear each delivery without the game's background music. It sounds like a few grunts and such have been muted or just really lowered in volume in-game, when listening to the sound files alone.


Both the American and the European audio folders were the same in size and files:
1355 items. 1287 of which are wav files and the 68 remaining ones are "sscf" files. I have no idea what these sscf files are.

Compare this to the Japanese game:
1432 items. 1364 are wav files and the 68 remaining ones are "sscf" files.

That's a total of 77 extra wav files in the Japanese game, compared to the English game. I hope these files are mostly unused line deliveries, instead of the mundane explanation that the used lines were divided into more files in the Japanese game.


- Unused VS Used
Chocolinx famously translated Crisis Core after the Japanese version was released. On Chocolinx's website, it was mentioned that there were unused audio files. The example was one of Sephiroth's lines in the Nibel Reactor, which has the English equivalent of the line "Don't test me", when he lifts up a skewered Cloud.

The Japanese game has two audio files for this line: file1091 and file1092.


The delivery heard in file1091 was used for one of the Crisis Core trailers while file1092 is the one that is used in the final game. I have known about this unused delivery for a long time but only now bothered to bring it up now that I finally have the audio files ripped.

Compare at your own leisure:
- Final(?) Trailer
- Final game

See also how the camera angle was changed for the upper-body shot of Sephiroth when he says "Don't get overconfident".

 

[Strangelove]

zip file of the extra/unused japanese dialogue?

 

[Shademp]

- Japanese Audio Folder WAV files, zip download (1364 wav files, numbered 0063 -> 1426)

FMV audio does not seem to be included in here, so I speculate for now that the FMV audio is embedded in the FMVs.


- There are two moments from one of the oldest Crisis Core trailers that I was looking for in the audio files.
1:51 - Angeal's and Zack's lines are spoken in the trailer but not so in the final game. Sadly these audio tracks did not exist (at least not in their expected location) in the files of the final game.

The dialogue still exists, but it is non-voiced and the scene choreography is different.

2:11 - The line Tseng begins with, "originally Sephiroth was assigned this mission" is instead used in the briefing room in the final game. The follow-up "I wonder what that means" and Zack's response is nowhere to be heard in the final game, to my knowledge. I could not find these unused lines by looking in the sound files where you'd expect them to be, either.


Thusly, I leave it to you hito to listen through all the audio tracks and find any unused line deliveries!

 

[Shademp]

- I remembered that Cloud, in the form of a helmeted Shinra grunt, stands in that same room in the Shinra Mansion before you find Sephiroth in the library. However the disappearing bug was not triggered here even when looking through the keyhole to the west on the second floor. Clearly then the debuggers remembered to program Cloud's helmeted infantryman model to be restored after you look through the keyhole, but not the other model where he is without helmet.


- English Audio Folder .wav files, zip download (1287 .wav files, numbered 0063 -> 1349)

I have now listened through these files and can report that there is nothing particularly exciting to find here. Nevertheless here are my observations. There are a few duplicates. None of the repeated lines represent different deliveries/inflictions though*.

EDIT: In the files I were able to listen to, the audio from FMVs, pre-rendered scenes and flashbacks (a form of pre-rendered scene) were not included.

Spoiler

0180-0181:
Grunts by Zack for when Ifrit attacks him. However in my ears these grunts in the audio files don't match those used in-game. Due to the loud volume of the battle music and the sound effects in this scene, it is difficult to be sure. File 0182 is the sound of Sephiroth saying "hmph" before slicing down Ifrit, but you have to listen real carefully to hear this in-game.


0513 & 0514:
For when Zack jumps up from the floor in this church. File 0513 has both the sound of Zack's grunt and Aerith's exclamation, while 0514 only has Zack's grunting. It seems likely that 0514 is not used, though the sound is exactly the same as the one in 0513, minus Aerith's exclamation.



*0712 & 0713:
Grunts by Angeal and Hollander when Angeal pushes away Hollander. The two files are very similar, but only one is used. I don't know which. This may be the only case of an unused voice file that is not identical to the one that is used. But the difference is so small that it's barely noteworthy. =/


0883 (and around those parts) :
In the final game, when you decide to leave Midgar for Nibelheim, you first get the scene with Zack and Cloud meeting, then immediately followed by the scene where Sephiroth reveals where they are going. Oddly enough, in the audio files, the scene between Tseng and Zack in the Sector 6 playground is placed inbetween the above two scenes.

Nothing special aside from that, it's just very rare for the audio file order not to match with the final game.


1051, 1052 & 1053:
Voices when Sephiroth sword-pushes Cloud into the Jenova chamber. 1051 has Sephiroth's sound, 1052 has Cloud's and 1053 has a mix of both. Listening to the in-game scene, the timing matches with 1053 really well.


1086 (and around those numbers) :
Unexpected order of Cissnei sounds. Her battle grunts from throwing the giant shuriken are placed *before* her line "If you want to escape, you'll have to..."
Again, mentioned only because in all other cases the order of the audio files match up with the script progression in the final game.



1100:
Cissnei: "He... He's the other sample they collected at Nibelheim.
Zack: "Why did you come here? I told you to go away."
1101:
Zack: "Why did you come here?"
1102:
Zack: "I told you to go away."

It would be most intuitive if 1100 is the one that's used.


1110:
Cissnei: "Tseng, I've lost the target." *Zack exclamation*
1111:
Cissnei: "Tseng, I've lost the target."
1112:
*Zack exclamation*

I can't tell if 1110 is used, or 1111 + 1112.


1142:
Cissnei: "Behind you" *Zack startled*
1143:
Cissnei: "Behind you"
1145:
*Zack startled*

I don't know if 1142 is used or 1143 + 1145.
1144 is Cissnei saying "So predictable".


Files 1294 -> 1348 are not playable. PotPlayer claims that these require a different audio decoder. These files are definitely not empty and are in fact way bigger than the normal 1-9 second clips.

1349, the last file, is playable. 61 seconds long it consists only of wind sounds. Probably used for the area of Zack's last stand.

 

[Shademp]

Observations from playing ahead:

- If Cloud gets dragged to the gates, there is a cutscene of Cloud getting dragged a final stretch, then a scene of one or two (it is not clear if it is the one truck making a U turn or there are two trucks going in different directions) trucks driving away, followed by a Zack who stands alone in failure. The text
"Escape failed!" appears, followed by
"Try again"
> Yes
> No

Pick No and you get a Game Over screen. Pick Yes and you get returned right adjacent to the closest save point.

Spoiler

As always, it is a pleasure to trigger these Game Over scenarios that you normally won't see when playing the game seriously.

- Surprised to see that the "Cloud disappearing" glitch doesn't repeat when you re-enter the mansion. This is fortunate because talking to Cloud is necessary in order to give him the SOLDIER outfit. But it really makes me wonder how the programming was done here since the glitch ONLY happens right after leaving the basement and before leaving the mansion the first time in this chapter.

- When you are looking for clothes for Cloud, you can return to the village and enter the inn. The inn NPCs are exactly the same as before, the woman attendant's line is exactly the same as before, and even Zack's line "Must have been a bad day at the races" is the same when you look at the painting when it has no girl in it.

In the original game, pre-incident and post-incident Nibelheim did not have identical NPCs. But here they do. Not sure if I'm meant to assume that the story has been retconned so that Shinra did an even better job replicating Nibelheim or if the game developers were just lazy. Wouldn't surprise me if the ability to enter the inn after the fire is just a fluke.


-

Zack had 109,348 fans? That's...an unusually high population number for the FFVII world. Cool, I guess?

Also, the people asking for Aerith's comment did not bother to tell her the news about Zack? Derp. Not saying the scenario is unthinkable but it sits ill with me.


- Remember how the signs in Nibelheim were corrected and improved for the English game? Well that was only done for daytime Nibelheim. Night-time Nibelheim uses the flawed and sometimes incorrect Japanese signs in the English game. They forgot to correct the signs for night-time Nibelheim! ZERO OUT OF TEN! WORST GAME EVER

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Epic lol at the Àerith thing. Who thought that would make sense?

 

[Shademp]

Epic lol at the Àerith thing. Who thought that would make sense?

My speculation is that the writer was simply obsessed with jamming an explanation in there as to why Aerith uses a basket instead of a wagon by the epilogue FMV, even though that is a detail we don't really need an explanation for.

Then of course Zack's fanclub suffers the same "dissonant popularity" problem as the Genesis fanclub does. So Zack has 109,348 fans who know about his death but Aerith doesn't happen to get across this knowledge? She writes 89 f*cking letters to Zack, clearly in a four-year searching mode. If she was this obsessed, then she must have asked people in the slums (who encountered Zack) what they may have heard. None of them knew a guy who knew a guy who knew about the fanclub? We don't know the total population of Midgar, but c'mon. 109,348. That's a huge number, especially for the FFVII world which often comes off as being very tiny.

These are not bits of canon we can measure exactly but they certainly have a mental dissonance to them.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Speculating about the fan clubs reminds me of this chapter from the fanfic Escape Plan Green, which is a hilarious take on what could have happened if various materia effects worked outside of battle exactly how then work inside battle. It's also a great example of incorporating video game mechanics into storytelling in general.

 

[Airling]

Aeris' comment makes sense to me. She's being naughty again and messing with their minds. She had probably heard the news by then, but being a Cetra she knew he was still alive the same way she knew Elmira's husband was dead. After Zack's death scene, we see her sort of get a fright. She then knew for sure he was dead.

 

[Shademp]

- The bad graphics in this moment will always be a tiny mood killer.

Srsly Square? You couldn't make it look...NOT silly?


- An assumption in the FF wiki is that this NPC is Cloud's mother.

However, this NPC model is used as the mother that Zack saves from a fire. She is the mother to the "Seven Wonders" kid. There is nothing in-game to indicate that this model is used as Cloud's mother.

Spoiler: This NPC's only line in the game

- Before this Crisis Core replay I couldn't remember if the researcher in Shinra Manor died when he was punched by Zack. Plus points to Zack, the researcher does not die. Talk to him and he says "Ngh..." confirming he's alive. If you return to him when Zack and Cloud regroup in the manor, his line will be "Zzz..." I just find it hilarious that he drifts from partially knocked out to sleeping, not moving an inch all this time.

The researcher has the Dresser Key which is used to get the SOLDIER outfit for Cloud. If you don't pick up the Dresser Key, this will be Zack's line if you approach the dresser after returning to the mansion.

He does not say this line if you approach the dresser (without the key) before the failed escape from Nibelheim. I also took the time to observe the slight change in dialogue depending on whether you have the SOLDIER outfit or not when you return to the manor. No big point or revelation, just showing that I take the time to explore all scenarios in the game. I quite enjoy acquiring this in-depth knowledge of the game, however pointless it may be.



- When you destroy gun/bull heads on the Nibel plains, there is a KILL counter and a FLED counter. I confirmed that the KILL counter maxes out at 99.

 

[Shademp]

- After Cloud gets the SOLDIER outfit, a weird thing happened.

For some reason, the camera is so far back that the view is blocked by the bed model.

Booted up the game on my physical PSP to check how it is supposed to look.

I have not found any emulator settings that, on an intuitive level, sound like they would solve this problem. For the most part, playing Crisis Core on an emulator is the superior experience. But then there are small oddities like these to remind you that the intended experience isn't always perfectly replicated.


- Thank you sign for being completely empty.

 

[ForceStealer]

- The bad graphics in this moment will always be a tiny mood killer.

Srsly Square? You couldn't make it look...NOT silly?

While I can see what you're referring to here...I'm curious as to what you think good graphics could improve about this. Isn't the problem more just that the Buster Sword is too comically large to stab someone with and believe that they would survive, much less continue walking? Better graphics could make it look...gorier, I guess, instead of just clipping, but I don't know if that helps. The other option would be to just not show it directly, but that's not a graphics issue

I do very much like the glass breaking before you (presumably) know what happened, lifted from Last Order. Thought that was a cool touch. (Actually I like a LOT about Last Order's presentation up until the whole Sephiroth jumping thing. Seriously, if that scene in LO were completely identical, but Sephiroth just goes off instead of hitting a wall when Cloud pulls himself back onto the platform, I think it would be perfect.)

 

[Strangelove]

i think showing it is what spoils it slightly. not because of seeing it, but because it was ended up just with the sword model sticking into sephiroth awkwardly. if they had done the glass cracking (which was an awesome image, nice job square) and then a shot of cloud holding the sword behind him without actually showing the sword in his back, i think that would have looked nicer.

 

[Shademp]

The word "graphics" was indeed not the proper one. What I meant was that it looks so silly that the sword almost cleaves him in two. If the sword had followed the line of Sephiroth's spine (parallel to it), then I think it would have looked better. Just change the angle a bit and I think this scene would have been a little less awkward.

and then a shot of cloud holding the sword behind him without actually showing the sword in his back

They do have that shot, but yes that should have been the final shot of the sword inside Sephiroth.

Spoiler

 

[Strangelove]

i forgot about that shot, which is a good example of hiding the graphical limitations

damn square, you were so close

 

[Shademp]

- I am not against the idea of this segment where you use a rifle to shoot down gun bull heads in the distance. If you think of it as a subtle nod to Dirge of Cerberus then I like that a knot is tied this way. Like with almost all the minigames in Crisis Core however there is a dissonance between gameplay and story here. The rifle is just laying about on the ground, for no reason at all, for Zack to pick up and use. The scenario is retarded.

If however there had been a short scene or battle of Zack sneaking up on a sniper, defeating that soldier and thus gaining the sniper rifle, I would have liked this scenario a lot more. Have the rifle added to your inventory, then have shiny circles on the ground highlight from where the sniping minigame can start, instead of a rifle just oddly and conveniently being on the ground.


- As far as I can tell, the area in the Nibel plains where Zack leaves Cloud is partially visible later on. The section is occupied by three gun bull heads in the minigame. If you then pay attention that these two areas are indeed the same, it looks odd that Cloud wasn't spotted by the gun bull heads. =/

Spoiler

- Version Difference: Map border difference in mission 9-6-1.

Spoiler

JAPANESE

ENGLISH

The extra stretch to the northwest was pointless, without treasure and without enemy encounters. If you really want to walk about on that final stretch, you'll have to walk on the right side of the mission boss. Don't try the left side.

- Discrepancy between Absolute Steve's guide and my observations:

According to Steve's guide, mission 9-6-1 has a Cactuar-type enemy called "Kactuare". However I noticed that the Cactuar was called "Kactaar", which is supposed to be a boss-only Cactuar in mission 9-4-3 and with very different stats.

Checking the boss in mission 9-4-3, I confirmed that this one was indeed also called "Kactaar", despite all its differences with the mission 9-6-1 version of "Kactaar".

Spoiler

Mission 9-4-3:

Mission 9-6-1:

What about the Japanese game? Turns out that these two Cactuar types have the exact same name in the Japanese game as well!

Spoiler

Mission 9-4-3:

Mission 9-6-1:

Looking in page 434 of the CC Ultimania, which is the book from which the extensive bestiary in Steve's guide is supposedly derived from, the name is indeed the same for both Cactuars even though they are different. The game make it look like the サ symbol has a small circle on its right shoulder, but this does not match up with the Ultimania nor does it seem like that symbol exists at all.

The mission 9-4-3 and mission 9-6-1 ザポテンダ― (zapotendaa) are referred to as ザポテンダ― (A) and ザポテンダ― (B) respectively, in the Ultimania.

"Normal" Cactuars/Sabotenders are called サポテンダ― (sapotendaa). Of these there is also an A type and a B type. I will look into their names in the English game a little later.


So why is the 9-6-1 Cactuar called "Kactuare" in Steve's guide? Maybe that's what the Cactuar is called in the American version: Remember that I'm playing the European version. Maybe the name is derived from an English Crisis Core guide like Bradygames. I have no official English CC guides. Or maybe Steve invented the name himself.


- Version Difference: Highway sign: Tarminal VS Terminal.

Both the signs reading "Terminal" was corrected from the Japanese to the English game. Oddly enough, the "MIBELHEIM" sign was not corrected.

Spoiler: Big Images

MIBELHEIM + Terminal sign #1

JAPANESE

ENGLISH

Terminal sign #1

JAPANESE

ENGLISH

It can look like the sign is reading "Temminal" or "Temnimal". But I think this is just a compression artifact which has widened the m and made the r very tiny.


Terminal Sign #2

JAPANESE

ENGLISH

NO WAY. HE JUST ATE HIS HAIR.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Regarding "Kactuare," it looks like a possible difference from the North American release, as it's definitely spelled that way in this video (go to about 7:30):

The game make it look like the サ symbol has a small circle on its right shoulder, but this does not match up with the Ultimania nor does it seem like that symbol exists at all.

Take a closer look. That's just ザ/za -- even in these screenshots, if you zoom in close enough, you can make out the difference between the ゛/dakuten and the ゜/handakuten.

 

[Carlie]

File 0513 has both the sound of Zack's grunt and Aerith's exclamation

I have a very dirty mind.

 

[ultima espio]

I'm sure the Highway sign says "Mibelheim", as well

I have a very dirty mind.

You should hear Vanille's battle grunts in XIII..."No holding back! You're mine! UHH, AHH, UHH, OHH, Is it...really over? Yay us!"

 

[Strangelove]

http://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/?%A5%E2%A5...%DA%A5%B6%A5%DD%A5%C6%A5%F3%A5%C0%A1%BC%A1%DB

this site says that ザポテンダー（Ａ） is 'kactaar' and ザポテンダー（Ｂ） is 'kactuare' in the us version?