Scarlett Johansson signs on to star in Dreamworks' 'Ghost in the Shell'
- Thread starter Strangelove
- Start date
- AKA
- Lith
THAT is fricking amazing. In a cinematic world of CGI and special effects, I love it when filmmakers find a way to do things organically. That's one of the reasons the Hobbit trilogy felt like an alien world from Lord of the Rings at first; PJ traded in the majority of his sets for CGI backdrops and architecture.
This film is looking pretty damn cool, not gonna lie. I'm probably gonna go see it when it comes out.
This film is looking pretty damn cool, not gonna lie. I'm probably gonna go see it when it comes out.
- AKA
- X
(That was also because the timeline and everything for the Hobbit were an insane mess).
Anyhows, the Geisha robots being practical effects in... I think 80% of the shots with them works SO well too, and it some of the reasons that I was absolutely blown away by that preview footage. This film seems to have an absolutely INCREDIBLE grip on what to use CGI for – like the holograms, etc. and using practical effects for anything that they possibly can, and use the digital models of them when specific shots are necessary.
I'm SO goddamn excited to see this in glorious 3D in under a week.
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Anyhows, the Geisha robots being practical effects in... I think 80% of the shots with them works SO well too, and it some of the reasons that I was absolutely blown away by that preview footage. This film seems to have an absolutely INCREDIBLE grip on what to use CGI for – like the holograms, etc. and using practical effects for anything that they possibly can, and use the digital models of them when specific shots are necessary.
I'm SO goddamn excited to see this in glorious 3D in under a week.
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- AKA
- Lith
True, but I was just using it for comparison between practical effects and CGI.
That being said, I wonder if Rupert Sanders did something similar for the scene with Charlize Theron in Snow White and the Huntsman, where Ravenna gets in that pool of liquid and emerges all covered in the stuff.
That being said, I wonder if Rupert Sanders did something similar for the scene with Charlize Theron in Snow White and the Huntsman, where Ravenna gets in that pool of liquid and emerges all covered in the stuff.
- AKA
- X
True.
That's a REALLY interesting point. I don't know why I hadn't even thought about that until just now.
Also! Speaking of their VFX: https://creators.vice.com/en_us/article/ghost-in-the-shell-vfx-manga-johansson-mpc
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- AKA
- Lith
It's still mind boggling to me that Scarlet is wearing a silicone SUIT in many of those scenes and that it's not CGI. The costume department did an awesome job. I'm sure it was hot as hell to wear and made you sweat something awful, but DAMN.
- AKA
- X
I think that aside from being INSANELY excited already, this is one of those movies where I'm already excited about getting it to watch all the BTS stuff on the BluRay about the what and how they made all the things. (My art book will hopefully serve as a good stopgap for that craving).
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- AKA
- X
Because I saw Hito's comment in the Death Note Netflix thread & wanted to address them here instead of derailing that thread.
The setting of Ghost in the Shell is a mega-corporate world, to quote the opening of the manga directly:
"Is it the near future. The world has become highly information-intensive, with a vast corporate network covering the planet, electrons and light pulsing through it. But the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive. And on the edge of Asia in a strange corporate conglomerate-state called 'Japan'...." (Then the explicit setting is "March 5, 2029. New Port City, a floating metropolis in the Shinhama Prefecture")
So the setting DOES always take place in Japan, in the fictional location of New Port City, which is a New York City analogue that's aesthetically based on Hong Kong in both the 1995 anime and in the upcoming film, and it's also a bit of a melting pot of sorts depending on the series, where SAC focuses mainly on the Asian Refugee State – especially in 2nd GIG but also has visitors and other individuals from other countries as commonplace, whereas they also show a larger global picture on a number of occasions for their international politics. The opening 5 minutes clip really showcases how this looks in the film with New Port City being a melting pot of many different people, but still set in a fictional future conglomerate-state of Japan.
Insofar as the members of Section 9 themselves, that's a bit more varied. In the final episode of Stand Alone Complex, it's explicitly shown that all of their names are codenames and they're of varying nationalities. In 2nd GIG, Saito was a Mercenary working in South America against the Japanese military when they picked him up, so it's clear that the nationalities listed there aren't just all different for no reason, but additionally it's worth pointing out that they are explicitly undefined in the series for ALL the Section 9 members, and not ever explicitly detailed. To make it more obscure even beyond that, the Major states in the finale of 2nd GIG when talking to Kuze that she doesn't actually remember her "original" name or identity at all (from when she was younger that 6 and was critically injured in a plane crash and became a full cyborg), meaning that in that series she has no established personal identity as a human outside of her cybernetic shell, racial or otherwise – and that gets FURTHER obscured in Solid State Society when her subconscious essentially becomes its own being, much like her merging with the puppet master in the original film. AND speaking of the original film, Mamoru Oshii specifically stated in regards to Scarlett Johansson's casting: "What issue could there possibly be with casting her? The Major is a cyborg and her physical form is an entirely assumed one. The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her." (Not to mention that in his film, she's doubting that she's even human since she's never seen her own brain).
Additionally, in his film, both the Major & Batou's cybernetic shells have various non-Japanese qualities about them – the Major having blue eyes and and identical shell to the one that the Puppet Master uses which is made by a European cybernetics manufacturer, and Batou having the physique of a body builder with short, platinum-blone-hair. That means that both of their characters lack any defined racial identity of any kind not only in their character's backstories, but also in their appearance (though as has been stated, that appearance bears no more relevance to the race of their brains than CEO Jameson's does in SAC to his original body, because they're completely artificial and arbitrary). Even Batou tells the Major that she ought to swap out to a male body model at one point in SAC.
They're all just brains in completely artificial cases.
Which should make everything pretty clear on that matter. That means of ANY characters in the series, these two can be cast as whoever. While it'd've been a strong opportunity for an Asian actress, it's not a necessity, nor is it whitewashing. Additionally, (as you get to later) there are funding reasons that play into it where casting Scarlett works out well for the film's budget (plus, I think that she's got experience that makes her an excellent choice for the role, but YMMV).
Insofar as Takeshi Kitano playing the Chief, he is the ONLY character who we know of in Section 9 who has a real Japanese identity and nationality – Daisuke Aramaki. We can strongly infer that Togusa is Asian given that (like the chief) he's still physically natural with only cybernetic brain enhancements in most of the series so his appearance CAN speak to his identity, and he's being played by Chin Han. All the other members of Section 9 don't have any defined identities or backstories, and their appearances vary quite a bit throughout the various iterations (not to mention the Major being purple-haired and red-eyed in SAC), with the CLOSEST to anything being Ishikawa owning a Pachinko Parlour in SAC, but that's still barely anything. That's why the rest of Section 9 have been cast as a wide range of actors of varying nationalities, which at least matches SAC showing that they're a multi-racial group working for the Japanese Public Security Sector.
The tl;dr is that at a cursory glance, this does SEEM to be an issue, but if you actually dig at the source material, there isn't a problem with it and this film doesn't seem to be making any changes to the Ghost in the Shell in terms of casting, setting, or anything from any of the re-reading and rewatching that I've done when initially wanting to get a well-formed opinion on all this (as well as just having an excuse to get my girlfriend to watch all the GitS stuff before the movie comes out).
Oh my god, same. They've SEEMINGLY not done it in interviews where they've gone back to using "the Major" like normal non-cavepersons when talking, but what the film does remains to be seen. By the same token, they had a weird-ass pronunciation of "Batou" in one of those interviews as well which just makes me cringe.
I addressed a little bit of this earlier, but insofar as the "reverse white-washing" that's just dumb as hell. Japan-centric media doesn't have NEARLY the pool of diversity that Hollywood ought to have access to, and that's really the core of the issue. Like I said earlier, this role could've been a BIG opportunity for an Asian actress (though I think that if you DO cast an Asian actress, it'd be important for her to be Japanese, because I think in NOT doing that, it'd be poorly received in Japan rather than just being seen as "Hollywood"). After Pacific Rim, I was really hoping that Rinko Kikuchi'd've gotten the role because she could clearly look the part, so long as she could nail some of the more important dialogue (or maybe we could've even gotten a full Hollywood production where everyone just speaks Japanese, which would've been awesome), but those hopes died when it became clear that Japan isn't overly fond of her but most notably that Pacific Rim massively underperformed in Japan & the US, which are the key target markets for this film, and – like you mentioned – funding for a film like this is a big deal.
My overall hope for this film is that it gets really good exposure for all of the actors & actresses aside from Scarlett (since Togusa & Aramaki are frequently some of the most important characters ESPECIALLY in Stand Alone Complex), and that IF there is ever a follow-up like Solid State Society for SAC, or Innocence for the original film, that the Major is pretty much a transcendental entity of sorts by that point, and the other characters really carry the story beats the most and it's even better for the supporting cast. However, if they leave this film as-is that the success reflects positively on VERY diverse casting throughout, and that it helps to make Hollywood less painfully monochromatic.
I... sort of dealt with it...?
X
The setting of Ghost in the Shell is a mega-corporate world, to quote the opening of the manga directly:
"Is it the near future. The world has become highly information-intensive, with a vast corporate network covering the planet, electrons and light pulsing through it. But the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive. And on the edge of Asia in a strange corporate conglomerate-state called 'Japan'...." (Then the explicit setting is "March 5, 2029. New Port City, a floating metropolis in the Shinhama Prefecture")
So the setting DOES always take place in Japan, in the fictional location of New Port City, which is a New York City analogue that's aesthetically based on Hong Kong in both the 1995 anime and in the upcoming film, and it's also a bit of a melting pot of sorts depending on the series, where SAC focuses mainly on the Asian Refugee State – especially in 2nd GIG but also has visitors and other individuals from other countries as commonplace, whereas they also show a larger global picture on a number of occasions for their international politics. The opening 5 minutes clip really showcases how this looks in the film with New Port City being a melting pot of many different people, but still set in a fictional future conglomerate-state of Japan.
Insofar as the members of Section 9 themselves, that's a bit more varied. In the final episode of Stand Alone Complex, it's explicitly shown that all of their names are codenames and they're of varying nationalities. In 2nd GIG, Saito was a Mercenary working in South America against the Japanese military when they picked him up, so it's clear that the nationalities listed there aren't just all different for no reason, but additionally it's worth pointing out that they are explicitly undefined in the series for ALL the Section 9 members, and not ever explicitly detailed. To make it more obscure even beyond that, the Major states in the finale of 2nd GIG when talking to Kuze that she doesn't actually remember her "original" name or identity at all (from when she was younger that 6 and was critically injured in a plane crash and became a full cyborg), meaning that in that series she has no established personal identity as a human outside of her cybernetic shell, racial or otherwise – and that gets FURTHER obscured in Solid State Society when her subconscious essentially becomes its own being, much like her merging with the puppet master in the original film. AND speaking of the original film, Mamoru Oshii specifically stated in regards to Scarlett Johansson's casting: "What issue could there possibly be with casting her? The Major is a cyborg and her physical form is an entirely assumed one. The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her." (Not to mention that in his film, she's doubting that she's even human since she's never seen her own brain).
Additionally, in his film, both the Major & Batou's cybernetic shells have various non-Japanese qualities about them – the Major having blue eyes and and identical shell to the one that the Puppet Master uses which is made by a European cybernetics manufacturer, and Batou having the physique of a body builder with short, platinum-blone-hair. That means that both of their characters lack any defined racial identity of any kind not only in their character's backstories, but also in their appearance (though as has been stated, that appearance bears no more relevance to the race of their brains than CEO Jameson's does in SAC to his original body, because they're completely artificial and arbitrary). Even Batou tells the Major that she ought to swap out to a male body model at one point in SAC.
They're all just brains in completely artificial cases.
Which should make everything pretty clear on that matter. That means of ANY characters in the series, these two can be cast as whoever. While it'd've been a strong opportunity for an Asian actress, it's not a necessity, nor is it whitewashing. Additionally, (as you get to later) there are funding reasons that play into it where casting Scarlett works out well for the film's budget (plus, I think that she's got experience that makes her an excellent choice for the role, but YMMV).
Insofar as Takeshi Kitano playing the Chief, he is the ONLY character who we know of in Section 9 who has a real Japanese identity and nationality – Daisuke Aramaki. We can strongly infer that Togusa is Asian given that (like the chief) he's still physically natural with only cybernetic brain enhancements in most of the series so his appearance CAN speak to his identity, and he's being played by Chin Han. All the other members of Section 9 don't have any defined identities or backstories, and their appearances vary quite a bit throughout the various iterations (not to mention the Major being purple-haired and red-eyed in SAC), with the CLOSEST to anything being Ishikawa owning a Pachinko Parlour in SAC, but that's still barely anything. That's why the rest of Section 9 have been cast as a wide range of actors of varying nationalities, which at least matches SAC showing that they're a multi-racial group working for the Japanese Public Security Sector.
The tl;dr is that at a cursory glance, this does SEEM to be an issue, but if you actually dig at the source material, there isn't a problem with it and this film doesn't seem to be making any changes to the Ghost in the Shell in terms of casting, setting, or anything from any of the re-reading and rewatching that I've done when initially wanting to get a well-formed opinion on all this (as well as just having an excuse to get my girlfriend to watch all the GitS stuff before the movie comes out).
Oh my god, same. They've SEEMINGLY not done it in interviews where they've gone back to using "the Major" like normal non-cavepersons when talking, but what the film does remains to be seen. By the same token, they had a weird-ass pronunciation of "Batou" in one of those interviews as well which just makes me cringe.
I addressed a little bit of this earlier, but insofar as the "reverse white-washing" that's just dumb as hell. Japan-centric media doesn't have NEARLY the pool of diversity that Hollywood ought to have access to, and that's really the core of the issue. Like I said earlier, this role could've been a BIG opportunity for an Asian actress (though I think that if you DO cast an Asian actress, it'd be important for her to be Japanese, because I think in NOT doing that, it'd be poorly received in Japan rather than just being seen as "Hollywood"). After Pacific Rim, I was really hoping that Rinko Kikuchi'd've gotten the role because she could clearly look the part, so long as she could nail some of the more important dialogue (or maybe we could've even gotten a full Hollywood production where everyone just speaks Japanese, which would've been awesome), but those hopes died when it became clear that Japan isn't overly fond of her but most notably that Pacific Rim massively underperformed in Japan & the US, which are the key target markets for this film, and – like you mentioned – funding for a film like this is a big deal.
My overall hope for this film is that it gets really good exposure for all of the actors & actresses aside from Scarlett (since Togusa & Aramaki are frequently some of the most important characters ESPECIALLY in Stand Alone Complex), and that IF there is ever a follow-up like Solid State Society for SAC, or Innocence for the original film, that the Major is pretty much a transcendental entity of sorts by that point, and the other characters really carry the story beats the most and it's even better for the supporting cast. However, if they leave this film as-is that the success reflects positively on VERY diverse casting throughout, and that it helps to make Hollywood less painfully monochromatic.
I... sort of dealt with it...?
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- AKA
- Lith
I think that aside from being INSANELY excited already, this is one of those movies where I'm already excited about getting it to watch all the BTS stuff on the BluRay about the what and how they made all the things. (My art book will hopefully serve as a good stopgap for that craving).
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Are they releasing an art book for this movie? I'll have to keep an eye out for it in the store if they are.
- AKA
- X
This final trailer seems to include enough dialogue to make it a lot less like the RoboCop story, and seem more like Hanka Robotics is after a much larger degree of cybernetics manipulation than just the Major. Either way, still gonna see it Thursday, and am glad to finally see the window-shattering effect in it's final iteration as well as what looks to be the scuba diving scene out in the bay.
From the tiny little bits and pieces, I can see how their villain is sort of an amalgamation between Kuze, the Puppet Master, & the Laughing Man, and it'll be interesting to see how they play that (what with his conjoined consciousness and also acting against the cybernetics firm).
Anyhows, enough speculation from me. A proper review will be done in a few days.
Last, but not least, them saying "the Major" like normal:
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- AKA
- X
I watched the 4 Arise films last night, and will watch "GitS: The New Movie" tonight to complete watching that. I might try to watch episodes 9 & 10 of the Arise Alternative Architecture because I think that that adds in a little bit from what I can tell, but DAMN is it confusing to try to make ANY sense of what order you're supposed ta watch any of those in.
Back on the topic of the upcoming film (not to be confused with "The New Movie"), here's another BTS look at work that Weta did and some more shots of the Shelling Sequence:
I have a good internets pal who saw it last night & really liked it, and fully expects that I'll love it. Now's about the time where, since it's been out to some places, I'll be avoiding the internets at large and MAYBE possibly this thread until I see it.
Only 33 hours left, but who's counting?
On that last note of potentially spoilery stuff & things, PlayStation has an exclusive clip that I'm avoiding since I'm not rewatching trailers or anything, but I'll link it here for any of you who ARE interested in checking it out:
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Back on the topic of the upcoming film (not to be confused with "The New Movie"), here's another BTS look at work that Weta did and some more shots of the Shelling Sequence:
I have a good internets pal who saw it last night & really liked it, and fully expects that I'll love it. Now's about the time where, since it's been out to some places, I'll be avoiding the internets at large and MAYBE possibly this thread until I see it.
Only 33 hours left, but who's counting?
On that last note of potentially spoilery stuff & things, PlayStation has an exclusive clip that I'm avoiding since I'm not rewatching trailers or anything, but I'll link it here for any of you who ARE interested in checking it out:
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
Don´t know how spoilerific this review is but from my perspective it´s not.
Edit: I read a spoiler about the movie and there´s a certain plot point that I think a lot of you will find really interesting, I won´t tell you what it is though.
6.8/10
Edit: I read a spoiler about the movie and there´s a certain plot point that I think a lot of you will find really interesting, I won´t tell you what it is though.
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
- AKA
- X
God DAMN they did an absolutely amazing job with this.
First and foremost, Scarlett does a mindblowingly fantastic job as the Major, especially when it comes to her presence and physicality, as does Pilou as Batou. They absolutely nailed their characters masterfully. The one member of the cast who is decidedly a bit different from his normal portrayals was Beat Takeshi as Aramaki and that seems to be the response in feedback in Japan as well, but he's still great for different reasons. Chin Han does solidly as Togusa, and while the Section 9 moments are definitely smaller with this being more like the 1995 GitS in its focus on the Major's identity, you really get a feel for them in a way that I would LOVE to see more of.
There are so, SO many elements from the various GitS stories mixed in to this and they've really assembled it into something that not only has a really solid message to convey, but also builds a world that's like Ghost in the Shell with an interesting outlook to what the future could be like. Like... the world and everything FEELS like Ghost in the Shell through and through both in the ways that all of the series are a sort of homage to one another, as well as being their own unique iterations.
I'm pouring through the Art Book now, and the work that they put in to make this is just incredible. Honestly, I am endlessly pleased with how they presented the universe within the scope of the Major's story of self-discovery, and now that it's established, I want to see this film give us a sequel that really lets her grow into the unit commander and see the Section 9 squad get to step up to the plate with her.
I can't wait to go see this again.
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First and foremost, Scarlett does a mindblowingly fantastic job as the Major, especially when it comes to her presence and physicality, as does Pilou as Batou. They absolutely nailed their characters masterfully. The one member of the cast who is decidedly a bit different from his normal portrayals was Beat Takeshi as Aramaki and that seems to be the response in feedback in Japan as well, but he's still great for different reasons. Chin Han does solidly as Togusa, and while the Section 9 moments are definitely smaller with this being more like the 1995 GitS in its focus on the Major's identity, you really get a feel for them in a way that I would LOVE to see more of.
There are so, SO many elements from the various GitS stories mixed in to this and they've really assembled it into something that not only has a really solid message to convey, but also builds a world that's like Ghost in the Shell with an interesting outlook to what the future could be like. Like... the world and everything FEELS like Ghost in the Shell through and through both in the ways that all of the series are a sort of homage to one another, as well as being their own unique iterations.
I'm pouring through the Art Book now, and the work that they put in to make this is just incredible. Honestly, I am endlessly pleased with how they presented the universe within the scope of the Major's story of self-discovery, and now that it's established, I want to see this film give us a sequel that really lets her grow into the unit commander and see the Section 9 squad get to step up to the plate with her.
I can't wait to go see this again.
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The soundtrack is also amazing
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
During its opening 4 days, the movie made approximatelly 19M$ in the domestic market and around 40M$ in the foreing market, giving a total of approx 59M$, the movie´s budget was about 110M$
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ghostintheshell2017.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ghostintheshell2017.htm
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- X
FWIW: The film opens in both China and Japan this week, which I think will be really interesting to see how the film is received there, especially since Japan has generally had a much different outlook of the film, and it's primarily shot in Hong Kong.
Also, I saw it again last night, and I still really, REALLY like it.
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Also, I saw it again last night, and I still really, REALLY like it.
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- AKA
- X
Exactly what I've been dreading, too. Also, I went off on a pretty big rant about the whole thing & the reviews it's been getting here: http://x-soldier.kinja.com/mamoru-oshii-on-the-ghost-in-the-shells-casting-contro-1793927519
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
This was an interesting read, btw I found a small typo in the text right here:Exactly what I've been dreading, too. Also, I went off on a pretty big rant about the whole thing & the reviews it's been getting here: http://x-soldier.kinja.com/mamoru-oshii-on-the-ghost-in-the-shells-casting-contro-1793927519
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EDIT: The only (pedantic) negative I have with your article is that the title is too long for a twitter share :/
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Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
That´s quite an ingenious way of solving the issueThanks for catching that. Also, if you change "Ghost in the Shell" to GitS for sharing it, I think that oughta work.
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, I feel dumb 
.