Death Note: SPOILER ALERT

Fo' shizzle wazzup?

. . . Okay let me stop being all spazztastic and just ignore that. Fav character is L for his super sleuth self and affinity for eating sweets is something that I adore and can attest to indulging in (the sweets part). Light was an annoying bastard after he found the Death Note and discovered his slave--er I mean Shinigami Ryuk. Also Ryuk + apples + his fascination for humans and their behavior + his amusement with said humans and their behavior is win.

Fav pairings is oddly just L with Misa. Weird I know but I always felt that had Misa met L before she met Light, then she wouldn't have been half (or even just . . .a nut period) the nut-case she ended up being. Besides deep down L's naivete is due to his super genius IQ, he can hardly comprehend romantic feelings without calculating it mathematically and spewing out percentages. Misa would balance him out in my odd skewed mind so there.

his memories of the Death Note were erased

I hate Takada, I'm glad she died. D: And I think Mello and Near just didn't get that great of an introduction for us to like them too much.

Yeah seriously Mello and Near should have been introduced sooner into the anime--like instead of being successors to L they could have been his temporary sidekicks. If L died however either Mello, Near, or Matt (no one mentioned him and his hot geeky self ) could step up to the plate and take on the moniker of L. Also L's real name is smexy: Lawliet. LAWWWWW-leee-et. Hot.

Lol this is why I tend to read fanfiction that alter her temperament so that she becomes likable. Light x L is epic smexiness. They'd have chess battles and mentally screw each other over with their . . . high intellectual capacities. 'Nuff said.

Yes Light was very likable in the beginning--very normal, average studious kid that just happened to be the son of a Superintendent of the Tokyo Police Force. Nothing to see there. Though seriously if he wasn't exposed to "omgz!justice! and teh Death Note!" I think Light wouldn't have fallen down so quickly into the trap of madness.

Even Tekada was involved in the omgz!justice field as an apsiring lawyer and look what happened to him? He became the "next Kira" as a stand-in to throw L off Light's tracks, then he died, I mean damn.

Alise said:

Although, I'm pretty big on Ryu, I think he's awesome. I was very, very surprised when he wrote Light's name.

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You mean Ryuk? Yeah. And I always thought the whole Ryuk writing Light's name in the DN was his way of respecting Light. XDDDD RyukxLight!!!!11

Alise said:

Favorite pairing is definitely Light x L. I don't like Misa paired with anyone, to be honest. She annoyed me a lot.

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I kinda liked MisaxL for a while, because of the whole epic butt-groping incident and the "I might fall for you" line. And also that one with Misa's commercial with the flowers... L was biting at a peeled banana. XDDDD L is sooooo cute!!!!

I like MisaxLight though. One-sided. Because I still think it's awesome that Light never once decided to kill Misa (unlike Takada).

Alise said:

And yeah, Mello and Near should have been introduced sooner. They now just look like... L wannabees in my opinion, lol.

EDIT: OH MY GOD, I WANT MY OWN DEATH NOTE TOO... Or do I?

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Correct. XDDD L wannabes. Just like how Kadaj and the others came out in AC--Sephy wannabes (literally).

AND YES, YOU KNOW YOU DOOOO

Lmao "I might just fall for you." I wish they'd fallen for each other. Maybe I'm just twisted but if L could have convinced Misa-Misa to expose Light then darn what a twist that would've been. It would've been a far better twist than having Misa due so much extensive undercover snooping after getting the Shinigami Eyes ability. I mean she had to go through all that crock just to get L's real name?! LMAO.

When I think of that time when L chained Light to him--handcuffed their wrists together--bondage always comes to mind. Like BDSM . . .

Also for I Am Not Me, MisaxLight was so one-sided that it was sad. Romantic feelings were never something that motivated Light. Misa was merely a pawn to be used and discarded when she became useless--(which at some point she would, I mean what about when Light would eventually get caught . . .?). Reading people's names and seeing their lifespan was her specialty and combine that with Light's slightly frightening ability to charm his way to his victims and/or just cuningly kill them--and you've got a recipe for a Pinky and the Brain like duo.

As much as I knew that Ryuk was fascinated at humans' behaviors. I had to wonder if he'd ever hesitate and slowly become mortified at Light's transition from 'justice-seeker' to all out 'god/jesus-wannabe'. Thoughts plz.

When I think of that time when L chained Light to him--handcuffed their wrists together--bondage always comes to mind. Like BDSM . . .

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Exactly, which is why all the fangirls have succumbed to the pairing.

Thank goodness for fanfictions.

Misa x Light was one-sided, and I have to agree, it was pretty sad, as much as I dislike Misa. I mean, she does act stupid but you can tell she really loves Light, but he doesn't return the favor and instead just enjoys using her for her self good. Another reason why which I don't think Light/Kira was a good guy, and wanted justice. He may have thought he was serving justice, but he wasn't.

But you know as much as I bash the guy he does kind of have a point--or at least he did. The whole series was basically asking one question to me: If you could play God then what would you do? That whole question, simple as it is, speaks volumes and throughout Light's downward spiral into madness, I found that his whole reaction was disturbingly . . . human.

Light didn't come even close to serving justice after maybe the second volume. As soon as people started speculating about him just about everything he did was to cover his own ass, and it got even worse when he realised his full powers and he got this demented dream of becoming God. However, he was a presumptuous asshole from the start; the whole reason the justice system exists is so people can have a fair trial. Killing someone in the midst of raping a woman or something is one thing, but Light was killing people for the mere suspicion of wrongdoing. No one appointed him God, he has no right to kill people just because he thinks society would be better off without them. That said, I felt his character arc was a fairly accurate reflection on the nature of power - the very presence of power corrupts most people into the sort who'll do anything to hold onto it.

I've only read the first three volumes or so, but L was definitely my favourite character from the parts I'd read.

But you know as much as I bash the guy he does kind of have a point--or at least he did. The whole series was basically asking one question to me: If you could play God then what would you do? That whole question, simple as it is, speaks volumes and throughout Light's downward spiral into madness, I found that his whole reaction was disturbingly . . . human.

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Human? Yes, I think so too. Once all that power gets into your head, I guess it's pretty hard to resist the temptation from considering yourself as a god, even if in the start you know yourself that utopia's and humans acting as gods can't simply exist. I think that was Light's biggest mistake - even considering to use the notebook in the first place, because I'm sure he knew that utopia's didn't exist or that god's couldn't be played by humans, but he chose to anyways. I think it's possible for some humans to control it and not be tempted, like... L. All he wanted to do was find it and destroy it.

Light didn't come even close to serving justice after maybe the second volume. As soon as people started speculating about him just about everything he did was to cover his own ass, and it got even worse when he realised his full powers and he got this demented dream of becoming God. However, he was a presumptuous asshole from the start; the whole reason the justice system exists is so people can have a fair trial. Killing someone in the midst of raping a woman or something is one thing, but Light was killing people for the mere suspicion of wrongdoing. No one appointed him God, he has no right to kill people just because he thinks society would be better off without them. That said, I felt his character arc was a fairly accurate reflection on the nature of power - the very presence of power corrupts people so they'll do anything to hold onto it.

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Surprised to see you talking like this, as I never heard you speak like this, but anyways.

I think his intentions when he started using the notebook were reasonable, as most human beings want to help the world, as did he. But once that power started coming into his head, and he was being suspected upon, I think that's when he went corrupt and he started to fail at his own plan. Even though it did decrease crime rate by seventy-eighty percent, like you said, no one appointed him God, and he's not the judge of human beings. His thoughts of morally killing people for punishment just makes him seem morally worse of a character. And unfortunately, I think normal humans would do that...

Misa x Light one-sided is sad indeed. But the truth still stands that Light did not kill Misa. And I find it cute that even though un-DN'd!Light didn't like Misa back, he still worried about her and tried to "protect" her from L. XDDD

I think his intentions when he started using the notebook were reasonable, as most human beings want to help the world, as did he. But once that power started coming into his head, and he was being suspected upon, I think that's when he went corrupt and he started to fail at his own plan. Even though it did decrease crime rate by seventy-eighty percent, like you said, no one appointed him God, and he's not the judge of human beings. His thoughts of morally killing people for punishment just makes him seem morally worse of a character. And unfortunately, I think normal humans would do that...

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The problem with his actions, of course, is that not only did he not bother to think ahead for even a few days to ascertain what the authorities would do when they discovered someone able to take out people with the simple writing of a name in a notebook, but even more simply, he had no way of knowing for certain whether the people he was killing really were criminals. Sure, he probably took out a lot of genuinely bad people. But he was executing people on the merest suspicion of their guilt - an action which is, of course, completely irreversible, even in the speculative fiction world of Death Note.

But of course, even if his intentions were fairly pure at the very beginning, they didn't stay pure for long. The purest thing for him to do would have been to destroy the damn thing, since it's obvious that if the wrong person gets hold of it it will lead to uncontrollable chaos. Then again, that's pretty much exactly what it does in Light's hands anyway

V said:

That said, I felt his character arc was a fairly accurate reflection on the nature of power - the very presence of power corrupts most people into the sort who'll do anything to hold onto it.

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That's pretty much what I meant when I said that his reaction was disturbingly human. As much as I won't admit it, there are times when I hear cases about serial killers and think, "God why don't they just die too or suffer? What gives them the right to live?" I think Light's train of thought delved into that. His whole mindset was consumed by this ideology that any human being who killed, raped, pillaged, committed incest, etc. was a criminal and therefore unclean and so he thought, "Why not help out the good people?"

It was harmless enough but as you pointed out V, this gave way to pretentiousness when people like Naomi and her boyfriend started to suspect him. Light started to panic, in true human nature, and he began to covet this newfound power. Though truthfully I think he killed Naomi partially out of fear of being caught.

And so in a very Stalin-like fashion he decided to purge the world of everything filthy and unclean--clear his tracks, keep the Death Note, and turn his mere "want to kill bad people" into a full on nationwide (and hell if he could get to it . . . worldwide) goal.

The problem with his actions, of course, is that not only did he not bother to think ahead for even a few days to ascertain what the authorities would do when they discovered someone able to take out people with the simple writing of a name in a notebook, but even more simply, he had no way of knowing for certain whether the people he was killing really were criminals. Sure, he probably took out a lot of genuinely bad people. But he was executing people on the merest suspicion of their guilt - an action which is, of course, completely irreversible, even in the speculative fiction world of Death Note.

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Oh, so you mean like, not giving them another chance, or the criminals having a possibility of not being criminals any longer and decent human beings? Though, I think him killing those detectives were a confirmation enough that he didn't care out the point.

But of course, even if his intentions were fairly pure at the very beginning, they didn't stay pure for long. The purest thing for him to do would have been to destroy the damn thing, since it's obvious that if the wrong person gets hold of it it will lead to uncontrollable chaos. Then again, that's pretty much exactly what it does in Light's hands anyway

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Well, I think anyone would be curious. And remember in the beginning, Light gets all freaked out after he finds out he's killed two people, and then starts talking about 'blood on his hands.' Though, it wasn't that long... and I bet if you had a Death Note, you'd be curious too, no? I guess us humans are just all naturally like that.

That's pretty much what I meant when I said that his reaction was disturbingly human. As much as I won't admit it, there are times when I hear cases about serial killers and think, "God why don't they just die too or suffer? What gives them the right to live?" I think Light's train of thought delved into that. His whole mindset was consumed by this ideology that any human being who killed, raped, pillaged, committed incest, etc. was a criminal and therefore unclean and so he thought, "Why not help out the good people."

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True. To be fair, he did decrease crime rate by eighty percent. But does that still give humans the right to kill other humans out of vain? What if those humans have looked out for forgiveness and have redeemed themselves? Everyone makes mistakes, and I don't think Light realized that. Light himself was making a mistake and being a criminal. If he had been told what he was doing, and what he realized what he was doing was wrong, would he ask for forgiveness? Because then otherwise, he'd be in the same position he put in punishment with all those other criminals....

My main point is that he killed them without even being certain whether they were even guilty for the crimes they were accused of.

That said, yeah, I think most criminals can be rehabilitated, and that not allowing people a second chance is at the minimum rather callous. Actually, looking at societies like Norway and Sweden pretty much proves that - they have maximum prison sentences of, if memory serves, fourteen years, even for crimes like murder, and the rate of recidivism there is very low. Whereas, by contrast, the United States has a very high rate of recidivism, simply because its prisons don't do any good. Now granted I don't think we should adopt a maximum incarceration rate (although I do think we should do away with the death penalty - I haven't been presented with any evidence that it actually serves as a deterrent to crime), but most of the people who get sent to our prisons can probably be reformed into decent human beings. People like pederasts and serial rapists and other sociopaths are excluded but other than that, a lot of crimes get committed in a moment of weakness that probably wouldn't be repeated anyway.

Not sure why I'm using a spoiler tag for this but whatevs.

Ah the lovely Death Penalty, honestly I cringe at that word. This is interesting, my mother and stepfather had this conversation with me over the dining table--while we were eating. Yeah odd I know, talking about death penalties as opposed to school days and such.

The chances that you could reform a criminal really depends on the person themself--it has a lot to ultimately do with the person's psyche. Do they want to be helped? Can they logically comprehend that their wrongdoing was their own fault? Furthermore though I will say that I believe total isolation techniques do a world of good in terms of breaking down the somewhat psychologically stable barrier of one's mind.

How long can one man sit and muse over how he killed so many women brutally? How long can he look at himself and still think that what he did was morally acceptable in society?

Though there are exceptions to the isolation technique (lock 'em in a cell, throw away the key, give 'em no privileges) I still think that it would work at least minimally for certain criminals.

My main point is that he killed them without even being certain whether they were even guilty for the crimes they were accused of.

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Wait, no, I thought he had only killed criminals. Not people who were being looked at if whether or not they had broken the law.

Now granted I don't think we should adopt a maximum incarceration rate (although I do think we should do away with the death penalty - I haven't been presented with any evidence that it actually serves as a deterrent to crime), but most of the people who get sent to our prisons can probably be reformed into decent human beings.

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So you're alright with the death penalty? Even if it was for a human being who truly repented? And strangely enough, most people who get sent to prisons, I recall reading an article about fifty percent or so of the same people who were already sent to prison, so I don't think it necessarily works for those who don't wish to follow the law.

The chances that you could reform a criminal really depends on the person themself--it has a lot to ultimately do with the person's psyche. Do they want to be helped? Can they logically comprehend that their wrongdoing was their own fault? Furthermore though I will say that I believe total isolation techniques do a world of good in terms of breaking down the somewhat psychologically stable barrier of one's mind.

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I personally believe that it's really difficult to change a human being, especially if he/she is a criminal if he/she has already committed an act deemed to be breaking the law. A lot of criminals have a numerous amount of records casing them that they have broken the law... but I don't exactly agree with the death penalty either, as there are times when a person can completely change and act as a normal human being. Maybe it's how they're raised that counts.

Though there are exceptions to the isolation technique (lock 'em in a cell, throw away the key, give 'em no privileges) I still think that it would work at least minimally for certain criminals.

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Yes, there are certain exceptions, I suppose. But even so, I don't think any human being deserves to be given the Death Penalty, as we are all the same. We're all human beings, and our morals should stay the same. If they really need to punish someone, a life sentence is big enough of a punishment.

Queen of Sunshine said:

Not sure why I'm using a spoiler tag for this but whatevs.

Ah the lovely Death Penalty, honestly I cringe at that word. This is interesting, my mother and stepfather had this conversation with me over the dining table--while we were eating. Yeah odd I know, talking about death penalties as opposed to school days and such.

The chances that you could reform a criminal really depends on the person themself--it has a lot to ultimately do with the person's psyche. Do they want to be helped? Can they logically comprehend that their wrongdoing was their own fault? Furthermore though I will say that I believe total isolation techniques do a world of good in terms of breaking down the somewhat psychologically stable barrier of one's mind.

How long can one man sit and muse over how he killed so many women brutally? How long can he look at himself and still think that what he did was morally acceptable in society?

Though there are exceptions to the isolation technique (lock 'em in a cell, throw away the key, give 'em no privileges) I still think that it would work at least minimally for certain criminals.

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Well, to be reformed they have to have some biological basis for a conscience. Some people are just sociopaths and don't seem to have the portion of their brain even developed that's necessary for them to be able to feel remorse for their actions. Not recognising that is naïve, and what would be done with such individuals in an "ideal" society is questionable at best. The important question is how much of the population this really represents. Ordinarily I think it's not that much of it; then again I look at the wankers in charge of running everything and I think it could be a really high number, or maybe power just attracts sociopaths

Alise said:

Wait, no, I thought he had only killed criminals. Not people who were being looked at if whether or not they had broken the law.

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Admittedly it's been awhile since I've read the manga but I seem to recall him simply killing people on the suspicions of their guilt. Note that I consider even convicted criminals to fit under this category, as people have been convicted and even put on death row on flimsy evidence before, and I'm sure it will continue to happen even with DNA testing (humans can manipulate evidence, after all); this is one reason I oppose the death penalty for nearly all the population.

So you're alright with the death penalty? Even if it was for a human being who truly repented? And strangely enough, most people who get sent to prisons, I recall reading an article about fifty percent or so of the same people who were already sent to prison, so I don't think it necessarily works for those who don't wish to follow the law.

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I must not have worded myself very clearly; life in prison is the severest penalty I think should be allowed for nearly all of the population. The exceptions are people who are put into positions of authority and grossly abuse it, such as for example most of the Bush Administration, for such things as promoting torture on a wide scale and starting wars of aggression based on evidence they clearly knew was fraudulent. Those people deserve nothing less than hanging; ideally, they would be subjected to the very same "aggressive interrogation tactics" they themselves promoted first.

Lol I think I might have a sociopath somewhere in my family . . .

Seriously though the statistical evidence for sociopaths could be . . . a surprising number just saying: 1 in every 25 people are high risk sociopaths.

From here: http://www.consumerpi.com/Sociopath.htm

Note that the statistic denotes a specific type of sociopath, in this case a potential one. Still that's an interesting observation--however estimated it may be.

Ahem okay soooooo . . . still I think that certain criminals have to be willing to accept and swallow if you will, their own transgressions it's just a logical mature way of going about things. Now what about those sociopaths that are just so out of it that they can't be reformed? Shall we kill them then assuming that there's no way to isolate them and see any significant change?