Addressing the core issues

[Alex]

Can I make the bold suggestion of actually closing the IRC channel for an unspecified amount of time until TLS' issues are resolved? It seems like a good deal of the forum's recent disruption comes from the clique of regulars that hang around there. It doesn't feel right to me that whilst the forum is under such intense scrutiny, there's a fallback point for this one particular group of members and moderators to become more insular and unwelcoming of outsiders.

That division has played a big part in why TLS has become such an unpleasant place lately.

Feel free to move this into a different thread or w/e if you suspect it's a thread hijacking, but I think this is a pretty serious issue that nobody seems to want to address.

Edit by Mod: Despite appearing first, this is not the OP of this thread. It was moved in later. the OP is one post below. Thank you.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Right.

There has been a fuckton of drama as of late. I have publicly stated I am fucking sick of seeing it, and having to deal with it. I think the reason we have so much drama is because we're covering surface problems, not the root causes of what's making everyone stand on edge.
Alienation is a big part of the drama's cause, IMO, but that too has individual roots that have to be dealt with on a member by member basis.

I suggest we all sit down, act like adults, and try and hash out the root causes of everyone's issues with everyone else.
I'll be moving a post in here shortly, but to pre-respond to it, Alex, I disagree, the TLS IRC channel is not the sole source of the recent drama. It may be part of the cause of the recent alienation, and we should deal with that, but drama has erupted and been perpetuated by people not involved in the channel at all.

I would also like to point out that the IRC channel is also the only place certain members on the forum feel safe posting any more because of the way they have been treated by other forum members.

 

[Lex]

I'm writing a much longer post concerning all of this but addressing Alex's post there:

Everyone is welcome on the IRC channel though? There's nothing stopping you and the people who apparently think IRC is one big clique from signing in right now.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Closing the IRC channel will just result in people taking their concerns elsewhere.

I honestly do not like the way the forum is being viewed as "cliques" either.

Blaming one individual group, per say, is not the resolution to this issue. I rather think that addressing the issues forumwide would be more helpful.

 

[Alex]

I never said it was the sole reason. But we do agree that it has played a significant role in dividing up the forum.

I would also like to point out that the IRC channel is also the only place certain members on the forum feel safe posting any more because of the way they have been treated by other forum members.

This works both ways.
Significant amounts of the members won't even set foot in the TLS IRC because of the arbitrary divide that has sprung up between the people who use it and the people that don't.

Lex: It's all well and good saying that, so I guess it's grand that we got it out of our system now. It is the boilerplate disclaimer for this kind of discussion, but it does not hold up in reality.

I sure as shit wouldn't feel welcome or comfortable in the IRC.

EDIT:

Dawn: Closing the IRC channel will just result in people taking their concerns elsewhere.

Blaming one individual group, per say, is not the resolution to this issue. I rather think that addressing the issues forumwide would be more helpful.

Like the forum, for instance?

Like Ryu said, certain members will only post in the IRC. How is anything going to get resolved if we can't get everyone on the same page and in the same place to get their shit in order?

 

[Madame Mayor]

What Alex is saying (if I'm reading it correctly) is that the IRC isn't able to be moderated the same way that the forums are, and as such, drama begins there but then comes to the forums and then stuff is already out of hand and infractions and warnings start flying all over the place.

I think it's an idea to be taken seriously.

EDIT: Maybe not exactly what he's saying but it's what I think after reading his post.

 

[Lex]

The heart of the matter is that this "us vs. them" mentality is what is causing this drama to spring up, and the people who frequent IRC happen to feel more comfortable there because they get flamed or insulted when they post on the board. It might look like a clique because it's where all the abused kids go when the playground bullies have had their fun.

EDIT: Brooke, there is no need to moderate IRC because nothing offensive or bad ever happens there.

 

[Alex]

That's a good enough interpretation of one of the core problems, Brooke, yeah.

 

[Madame Mayor]

EDIT: Brooke, there is no need to moderate IRC because nothing offensive or bad ever happens there.

From everything I've been able to piece together lately I don't think this is the entire truth.

I'm off to work now so I may not be able to reply again until late this evening or tomorrow.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually, the IRC is entirely able to be moderated as the forums are. We simply have not had reason to.
Very rarely has anything been 'started' in the IRC.

And I don't think the IRC has been significant in dividing the forum, any more than Skype or MSN has. The division runs deeper than that.
Alex, if I may ask, WHY wouldn't you feel comfortable in there? What have the people in there done to give you that impression? Hell, even Vendel can post in there without being driven off.
Anyone else who feels this way, could you also chime in with why? I'm serious about wanting to deal with root causes, and whys are vital to that.

Re: folks with problems need to come here and address them- I agree. But I also don't want anyone attacking or trying to pull a DARVO on folks. Serious discussion. No snark, no sarcasm, no snide jokes. That's part of why we're in this mess.

Re: not the entire truth- could you elaborate? I keep as full time a log of the IRC as I can, so I can check anything you need.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Sadly considering the fact that half the people on IRC don't feel comfortable posting on the forums might show that it's not the IRC that is the issue.

Like I said if you close it people will just take their grievances elsewhere.

also I don't understand why people seem to hate going to the IRC anyways. Everyone on the IRC gets along just fine; anyone else would be welcomed.

 

[Lex]

For the record, there has never been any drama on the IRC channel. Ever.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

^That

Everyone on IRC gets along just fine. It's the people on the forums (composed of both groups, since I disagree with blaming just one invididual group) that seem to be getting out of hand.

I feel saddened to see that this is all just being "oh it's them" attitude, but I guess I should have just realized that would be it.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Sooooo recent events never happened?
Also
On the matter of cliques I think the most recent post by ryu in the stats thread kinda hits the nail on the head "don't post in this thread unless your quoting stuff from irc" ....... Seems kinda cliquey to me.

 

[Soakette]

Im always in the IRC and I have never witnessed a fight in there. People in there are cool and non-judgmental. We just have fun, its mostly light conversation and fucking around. People should come in and see what its about before saying anything negative about it. No fights come from the IRC. At least none that I am aware of.

 

[Fangu]

What?
Huh?
What?

The IRC has been all about welcoming in old members, new members, anyone. The drinking nights and the use of the channel for the Race was a way of trying to bring everyone into the channel. I've been marketing it like hell, and when that didn't work, I worked very hard on meeting people in other mediums as well - Skype, stream chats, in the hope that one day we would find commom ground somewhere.

Not ever did I see the IRC as belonging to anyone but TLS (Kat is the only one with real admin pwrs in there) and I really feel it's sad that the suggestion is 'close it' instead of 'let's hijack it!' or something else.

Some days TLS wear me out, and the channel is a friendly place where there are no misunderstandings (because those happens less in chats than on boards) and truly - anyone who comes in are welcomed, even random strangers who stumbles upon it by accident. (Unless people are away atm and not paying attention - but typing anything will usually get someone's attention.)

And yes, some TLS stuff is discussed in there, but mostly the talk is about games, art, life - basically it's just a place for rant.

If the channel were to be closed, I'd like to know what our (as in all of us on TLS) options are? Some other chat application? It needs to be a multi chat alternative, msn and Skype will limit the access for new members.

 

[Lex]

Sooooo recent events never happened?
Also
On the matter of cliques I think the most recent post by ryu in the stats thread kinda hits the nail on the head "don't post in this thread unless your quoting stuff from irc" ....... Seems kinda cliquey to me.

That didn't start in IRC, it started with an incredibly insulting and totally unnecessary post from CK.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Sooooo recent events never happened?
Also
On the matter of cliques I think the most recent post by ryu in the stats thread kinda hits the nail on the head "don't post in this thread unless your quoting stuff from irc" ....... Seems kinda cliquey to me.

Umm, the thread is for IRC stats and quotes.

Just like the Member Picture thread is for pictures of members, just like the gaming section is for discussion of gaming. Keeping that thread on topic is no different from keeping other threads on topic by moving posts and occasionally punishing people for being disruptive.

 

[Soakette]

If the IRC were to close, I would just quit the forums entirly. I don't feel comfortable enough to post on the forums most of the time and the IRC is away for me to connect with other memebers and to know them, and for them to get to know me. TLS just wouldn't be fun for me anymore without it.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

So hold up..... You would quit the forums if the forum chat site was closed.................rrrright.

 

[Lex]

So hold up..... You would quit the forums if the forum chat site was closed.................rrrright.

There are people who only come here for the IRC chat because they don't feel comfortable posting. Because posts like yours put them off replying to anything. You know, the flaming, rude kind that don't add anything to the discussion.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

^ Me as well.

If you wish to drive a bunch of members off of TLS entirely, go on ahead and close teh IRC. But I was under the impression that we were trying to resolve the issues, not alienate a bunch of people.

And as Lex said, this recent drama resulted directly as a result of Kassi being randomly attacked by CK.

And, and, yes, asking that the IRC thread stay on topic is pretty damn logical. I wouldn't want someone posting about dancing jelly beans in a topic about global warming, for example.

 

[Soakette]

The only thread I post on is the Turks Thread, before that thread came I was in the IRC and felt welcomed by everyone. I've tried posting in other threads but people just ignore it, or maybe I write stupid things.. I don't know. I was just trying to get across how much the IRC is important to me and other people.

There are people who only come here for the IRC chat because they don't feel comfortable posting. Because posts like yours put them off replying to anything. You know, the flaming, rude kind that don't add anything to the discussion.

^ This pretty much explains it.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

There are people who only come here for the IRC chat because they don't feel comfortable posting. Because posts like yours put them off replying to anything. You know, the flaming, rude kind that don't add anything to the discussion.

Read up on the definition if flaming.

Secondly my post was merely put there because I find it funny you all talking about how irc is friendly and you encourage everyone to join in.
Then soak posts how he/she doesn't get to know anyone on the forum because he/she doesn't feel comfortable around them.

You honestly think throwing everyone from the forum into irc is going to improve that?

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Well since there's drama on the forum let's close the forum.

...or wait, let's not.

How about all this blaming and shit ends and actual constructive solutions are recommended?