Addressing the core issues

[Celes Chere]

I stopped posting at IRC just because it was very boring. I found I could speak to all my friends on TLS on TLS, MSN, Skype, etc and there was no reason to use the IRC. When I did go there again before since everyone seemed to be trying to get me to, I was completely ignored in the chat and felt extremely out of place. Not to mention that the interests of those that frequent the IRC seem to differ from mine. Now... there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me and I accepted that.

I think the same thing should be applied here on TLS. If people are so damn afraid of posting, why even come to TLS anymore when every little thing is going to offend you? There seriously were not this many issues when the same group of people *WEREN'T* doing the following:
- complaining about thanks and saying they matter
- making anti thanks thread
- getting offended by every tiny detail
- taking offense to literally everything

I feel like some members are tired of this behavior and are now being bold about their feelings. I know I'm feeling a bit bitter over all of this, because TLS never used to be like this. We could basically post without having to walk on eggshells because people were afraid that we were being too mean. I mean damn, I understand being offended but being offended by something like snark/sarcasm/etc when it's common on the Forum is just plain stupid. Especially when 'offenders' have explained themselves several times : "I mean no offense"
Why can't people just calm the fuck down and let TLS be the fun place it used to be, instead of nitpicking every god damn thing?

The heart of the matter is that this "us vs. them" mentality is what is causing this drama to spring up

Yes, and us long time members of the board did not start this mentality. All of YOU did.
- Claiming we are not nice to new members // do not welcome new members
- Instantly assuming that we're all mean // will flame you
- Providing no REAL examples of when such large offenses happen
- Making a big deal over fucking nothing

People should come in and see what its about before saying anything negative about it.

Same deal with the Forums. From what I've seen, Kassi's barely even posted here. Hell, I didn't even know who she was for the longest time. It seems someone instilled the idea that the Forum is bad.

That didn't start in IRC, it started with an incredibly insulting and totally unnecessary post from CK.

LOL no.

TLS just wouldn't be fun for me anymore without it.

Was TLS even fun with you to begin with? Don't lie.

You know, the flaming, rude kind that don't add anything to the discussion.

And you know what Lex? It's your condescending posts that piss people right the fuck off.

 

[Soakette]

I don't think I said I don't feel comfortable around them. I said I don't feel comfortable posting because some people are just rude and I don't want that to happen to me. And what happened to Kassi is a prefect example of that.

 

[Lex]

Yes. Everyone has been actively encouraged to join the IRC chat since it started because it's a fun way for members to talk to each other.

Soak didn't say anything about not getting to know anyone, you just massively twisted what she wrote. She said she feels uncomfortable posting because she doesn't get a response, and IRC is where she goes to discuss things. That's the whole point. No drama happens in the IRC channel because the people who are affected by the insulting members on this forum go there.

EDIT: Tiff, that "All of YOU" is a mixture of both new and old members of ACF alike. You keep saying that there has been a failure to provide examples of this behaviour, but its all over the board. The anti-thanks thread, the ruins thread, the drama with Rishi and Ryu and most recently, that IRC thread.

FFS, people might use "oh i thot it was funny" as an excuse to thank something, but thanking a post as outwardly horrible as CK's in that thread is tantamount to doing it yourself. And it's not the first time a complete asshole post has been thanked when it's directly flaming a member.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I really really hate the fact that this is degenerating into a 'us vs. them'.

Can I ask that people stop that? Do you HONESTLY expect that to make people react more warmly towards you?

 

[Alex]

Well since there's drama on the forum let's close the forum.

...or wait, let's not.

How about all this blaming and shit ends and actual constructive solutions are recommended?

is this supposed to be ironic? Stop being part of the problem.

@ Ryu: As for reasons I wouldn't feel posting in the IRC. The generally territorial, reactionary and aggressive attitude on display here when I mentioned temporarily closing down the channel until the members can stop behaving like children and actually start talking to each other and working through their issues, says it all really. It hasn't been a great way to try and convince me that my participation in the chat would be treated well, or that people would even pay attention to what I had to say at all.

 

[Celes Chere]

Okay well how have we bullied ANYONE here on TLS? Please inform me, because I'm dying to know. The Forum was fine and dandy before a sudden group formed and waltzed around saying how mean TLS is and how scared they are.

Instead of cowering on the damn IRC, why not confront the issues and actually speak to the people that offend? Fucking christ, lots of people on TLS are very nice people and it makes me upset that people feel bullied by perfectly nice people that are just having fun. It's so irritating to log on TLS and see

oh another person is crying that their post didn't get thanked enough
woohoo

 

[Soakette]

Before the IRC was it fun for me? No? And I said why, because I would feel ignored.

 

[Ryushikaze]

is this supposed to be ironic? Stop being part of the problem. Closing down the channel temporarily was my suggested solution.

@ Ryu: As for reasons I wouldn't feel posting in the IRC. The generally territorial, reactionary and aggressive attitude on display here when I mentioned temporarily closing down the channel until the members can stop behaving like children and actually start talking to each other and working through their issues, says it all really. It hasn't been a great way to try and convince me that my participation in the chat would be treated well, or that people would even pay attention to what I had to say at all.

The bolded is a good example of why people would be reacting aggressively to your post.

But forget today. Why, PRIOR to today, did you not feel welcome in there. Shit that happened exactly today has no bearing on the entire life of the IRC channel.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

^that

You didn't answer why from before you didn't want to join teh IRC chat. NO one is giving any explaination as to why they felt alienated from it.

On the flip side several people on the forum have been downright nasty to some of the people here, and simply saying "oh it's the new people's problem" is being short-sightened, IMO.

This coming, btw, from someone who's been here from almost the start. Just saying.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Especially when some of the people alienated from the board and who do not like how people are acting on it are/were active members in good standing from the very first days of the board.

It cannot be a 'new verse old' issue when the people alienated include people who have been around the forum just as long or longer than you have.

 

[Lex]

Okay well how have we bullied ANYONE here on TLS? Please inform me, because I'm dying to know. The Forum was fine and dandy before a sudden group formed and waltzed around saying how mean TLS is and how scared they are.

Are you being serious? CK's post JUST CAUSED all of this recent drama, because things like that KEEP HAPPENING. That's your proof of bullying. Other common posts include one line snyde comments, and passive aggressive posts like yours in the IRC thread.

How can you not know that that is affecting people?

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

FFS, people might use "oh i thot it was funny" as an excuse to thank something, but thanking a post as outwardly horrible as CK's in that thread is tantamount to doing it yourself. And it's not the first time a complete asshole post has been thanked when it's directly flaming a member.

Riiiight.
So under that mentality everyone who likes your posts when your continually whining about one thing or another is just as bad as those who liked ck's post?

I mean I it's us vs them then this IFC would be the flip side to your own statement.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I posted some tl;dr stuff while everyone else was posting and a lot of what I said has already been said. So I got rid of it and am posting this:

From reading all the others posts, it almost seems as if the "us and them" divide is "new vs old". In a forum this big you have to expect that interest groups are going to arise, that some people will get on well together and others won't. I've always found Rishi, Tiff and al to be very welcoming to new people, but surely it is only natural that we would all want to spend more time hanging out with people who are already our friends? And then, it is natural that the newer arrivals create their own friendship groups. Just like being the new kid in school, it can be uncomfortable until you find that group where you belong. Nobody is here to exclude anybody, but to have fun with their own friends.

It is pointless to say that thanks should not be taken seriously, because they are and we know it. The thanks button can be used in subtle and ambiguous ways, and I cannot believe that those of you who thanked CKs response to Kassi were unaware of how it would come across. If the root cause of this split is the lingering animosity between Rishi and Ryu, that needs to be addressed, and you both need to be able to let go of your grudges.

I have never found Lex to be particularly condecending. Sincere, if anything.

 

[Lex]

Riiiight.
So under that mentality everyone who likes your posts when your continually whining about one thing or another is just as bad as those who liked ck's post?

I mean I it's us vs them then this IFC would be the flip side to your own statement.

There wouldn't be anything to whine about if people would stop insulting other people. The whining is a result of that, not the cause. People who are thanking posts that are defending people being attacked for no reason is totally acceptable.

People thanking harassment is not.

This is another reason people don't speak up about this. When they do, they get comments like "welcome to the internet" "you're being too sensitive". Put THAT on it's flipside during one of the previous dramas and you'll see "OMG YOU DID NOT JUST SAY THAT GTFO". You don't see "this side" responding in such an immature way.

 

[Fangu]

The most bitter conflicts between groups escalate when both groups believe they are the offended/ weakest party.

Re: jokes, you can easily misinterpreting a joke from someone you don't know that well. Had Yop pulled that spit/ swallow joke on me, I would have laughed. Bottom line: "Fun" needs to be interpreted in a context. In general, I'm sorry if I'm spoiling the fun for anyone but to be honest you most probably also spoiled mine. So we're even.

 

[Celes Chere]

Are you being serious? CK's post JUST CAUSED all of this recent drama, because things like that KEEP HAPPENING.

How have things "like this" kept happening? Tony was trolling as usual and yeah he deserved to be infracted for it and he was. The general negative attitude towards what seems to be the majority of the IRC users, comes from their negativity. I listed all of the reasons. That's ONE INSTANCE as proof of this long time bullying that supposedly made others posts mainly on the IRC and bitch about how mean TLS makes them cry themselves to sleep at night.

It wasn't passive aggressive. It was me pointing out the irony of those posts. And I got called a fucking bitch for that? Give. me. a. break.
Yeah I can see how she got offended by it but honestly, I'm just fed up with all of you constantly saying TLS sucks and is full of jerk/flamers/etc.
and as stated, making a big deal about every stupid thing. Basically all the stuff I said that you decided to ignore.

Um yeah, can you not treat me like I'm a retard? thanks

You don't see "this side" responding in such an immature way.

yes because calling someone a 'fucking bitch' is totally mature

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Sooooo having a hissyfit over one (not so aggressive) post is the best way to progress forward hmm?

In your eyes ck might as well have taken a shit on the popes head for the way your acting.

To others, it wasn't that harsh.

 

[Soakette]

It wasn't passive aggressive. It was me pointing out the irony of those posts. And I got called a fucking bitch for that? Give. me. a. break.

Before you posted that you probably knew what was going on with CK and how kassi got offended. You had to know that what you posted would of offended some people. And when I saw that, yeah I called you a fucking bitch, because thats what a fucking bitch does, knows shes going to offend people but does it anyway.

And I'd like to add that with sexual "jokes" like that, some people on here have a dark past, and that can offend them even more, escially if its directed at that person.

 

[Lex]

You just can't be bothered seeing how all of this looks from the other point of view. This feels completely pointless. If you're going to continue defending the troll posts I don't see how discussing this is going to help.

Just because CK got an infraction for posting that doesn't make it ok that he posted it.

EDIT: Also, Soak was pushed to the edge with the repeated bullying behaviour and the very personal insult to her friend. You don't have any such excuse.

 

[Alex]

But forget today. Why, PRIOR to today, did you not feel welcome in there. Shit that happened exactly today has no bearing on the entire life of the IRC channel.

Because it hasn't been the first time I've seen this kind of attitude displayed and that the little performance in this thread has simply reaffirmed for me the kind of mindset that's at work here? I've been around the forum for a while and know well enough which members I will get along with and which ones I don't, which ones whose attitudes I care for and which ones I don't. it just so happens that a good deal of these members all chill out in the IRC, so I stay out because I'm not interested in winding myself up. I have more than enough stress in my real life without having to make nice to people who rarely see eye to eye with me.

But I was hardly at the epicentre at either of the latest bouts of drama, so take this for the peripheral opinion that it is. I am hardly central to this drama at all. I made (profit?) this thread to try and find a solution to a desperately problematic trend that I've noticed in TLS over the past month.

 

[Celes Chere]

Before you posted that you probably knew what was going on with CK and how kassi got offended. You had to know that what you posted would of offended some people.

Well to be honest, I contemplated whether I should post it or not and decided to. Because it was irony, and while true that it was irony, I realize it didn't help. So I probably shouldn't have posted it.

And when I saw that, yeah I called you a fucking bitch, because thats what a fucking bitch does, knows shes going to offend people but does it anyway.

Honestly I didn't think people would get THAT upset over it. And thank you Soak you've just been so lovely yourself through all of this.

And I'd like to add that with sexual "jokes" like that, some people on here have a dark past, and that can offend them even more, escially if its directed at that person.

Uh huh... and we're just supposed to know that? Also I find it strange that someone that has a dark past when it comes to sexual jokes, makes sexual jokes herself. Don't feed me that garbage unless you're ready for me to point out how that makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

The first time I went to IRC do you know what I got? A few welcomes and not really much else. Did I run off saying people there were so bad they that we should close it? No. Because while people weren't singing my praises the moment I got there they quickly warmed up to me. Now I feel like I can be entirely myself there, without worrying I'm pissing off some random person by just saying what I did that day.

At IRC you might not be hugged to death but at least you aren't flamed.

 

[Soakette]

Honestly I didn't think people would get THAT upset over it. And thank you Soak you've just been so lovely yourself through all of this.

Because I felt like you did it on purpose, to upset her. And I was pissed off because I care for her deeply, and she was upset.

Uh huh... and we're just supposed to know that? Also I find it strange that someone that has a dark past when it comes to sexual jokes, makes sexual jokes herself. Don't feed me that garbage unless you're ready for me to point out how that makes no sense to me at all.

I didn't say it was her. It was just in general. But yes, I see your point with that.

 

[Fangu]

I am in Berlin now, I'm going to go look at the Berlin wall. That wall was torn down, and for great justice. Let's bury the hatchet, I'm sick of fighting. I still like all of you, and I believe we all really just want the same thing, even if we're not that good at getting that point across. We're no different really.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

EDIT: Also, Soak was pushed to the edge with the repeated bullying behaviour and the very personal insult to her friend. You don't have any such excuse.

Ck is my friend.

I fail to see the difference.

However you have just proved you yourself are just as likely to side with your "friends" and not see the other persons side.

Congratulations.