Annoucnment regarding Social Groups: Use em' or Lose em'

[Max Payne]

Can't argue with you there.

I still disagree on this hate thread crap. It just rubs people the wrong way from experience, and few seem to be able to keep from making it unsubstantiated bawwing about a character, which in turn pisses people off.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That thread was opened as a hate thread, going by its OP.

The creator clearly said its a thread for FF characters you hate and the pointless insulting shit begins from there. It had some substance for a few posts but then degenerated and Yop and I posted in there to get people to actually discuss things substantially or face its closure. That's seriously the only time I remember us having to invoke that rule and shit here. And we wanted to because it *is* in the FF discussion forum.

 

[Dashell]

@Quexinos
...What have I been saying? A club based on torturing Cloud is silly and ridiculous. I just said, a club/group like that is unnecessarily negative and ridiculous. That's not allowed and is essentially the same thing. Make your club else where.

That's not a good argument. A lot of things on the Internet and even on this forum are silly and ridiculous. This thread has gotten pretty silly and ridiculous

This is a Final Fantasy forum and I think people should be allowed to discuss their likes AND dislikes. I don't think it's fair to say no you can't have a dislike/hate because it might go offcourse. My god if I were to get rid of everything here I thought was silly... there'd not be much of a forum.

but you are the admin so I respect your decision. I had every intention of moving my Cloud abuse elsewhere, I was just hoping I could rope some people in from here.

It just rubs people the wrong way from experience, and few seem to be able to keep from making it unsubstantiated bawwing about a character, which in turn pisses people off.

Then people need to grow the hell up because it's internets.

 

[Ⓐaron]

That thread was opened as a hate thread, going by its OP.

The creator clearly said its a thread for FF characters you hate and the pointless insulting shit begins from there. It had some substance for a few posts but then degenerated and Yop and I posted in there to get people to actually discuss things substantially or face its closure. That's seriously the only time I remember us having to invoke that rule and shit here. And we wanted to because it *is* in the FF discussion forum.

I meant the one about Hojo/Lucrecia. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

But yeah, I seriously get the impression most people here are mature enough not to cause drama over disagreements about a character. I hope.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Okay, but I already said the Hojo/Lucrecia thread was fine so I'm not sure what you mean by bringing it up then.

It's a good thread. There's no problem there.

 

[Max Payne]

Then people need to grow the hell up because it's internets.

Yeah, because that's always how it works right? The fact is whether we like it or not people will take other people seriously on the internet because guess what? You're still dealing with people, and it's not hard for people to piss each other off.

And yes, I realise the irony in me saying this.

 

[Ⓐaron]

True enough, but if people can't lulz over pictures depicting abuse to their favourite video game character, then the terrorists win. Or something like that.

 

[Max Payne]

I think that's a little disturbing to be honest.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah, because that's always how it works right? The fact is whether we like it or not people will take other people seriously on the internet because guess what? You're still dealing with people, and it's not hard for people to piss each other off.

And yes, I realise the irony in me saying this.

you know... if I said something like that back in the day, I'd be flamed to hell and back

I think that's a little disturbing to be honest.

welcome to the wonderful world of S&M

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm pretty sure there are others who would agree, and again, a club based on that is a bit ridiculous and totally not necessary here.

In fact, there was a club just like that on ACF if I remember correctly. The members of it roleplayed repeatedly torturing and brutalizing Cloud and that went on for 12 fucking pages. It was stupidity at its finest and people trolled it. And then they whined. And then they trolled the people who trolled them. And it became one big circle-jerk of hate and crap that generated way too much problems than such stupidity was worth.

I'm going to be frank and say we don't want that here. If you want to discuss what you don't like or how you find X character ridiculous and badly characterized (see MOG's Angeal & Genesis thread in the CC section) that's good. That's the type of discussion we encourage. But a topic on how you see Tifa as a skank, or Tidus as a whiny emo boy or whatever new pejorative kids these days say about things, then take that elsewhere. Fashion a discussion with a little more weight than that please. We are not gamefaqs.

 

[Dashell]

I'm pretty sure there are others who would agree, and again, a club based on that is a bit ridiculous and totally not necessary here.

In fact, there was a club just like that on ACF if I remember correctly. The members of it roleplayed repeatedly torturing and brutalizing Cloud and that went on for 12 fucking pages. It was stupidity at its finest and people trolled it. And then they whined. And then they trolled the people who trolled them. And it became one big circle-jerk of hate and crap that generated way too much problems than such stupidity was worth.

haha really?... do you have said RPs saved?

yeah I know, I need to grow up...

I guess invoking a "no trolling clubs" wouldn't work either, cause people will do it either way.

 

[Ⓐaron]

If people break rules then warn them? seems simple enough. If there are no rules against "hate threads" but only against flaming in them, then just enforcing those rules consistently should hopefully be significant enough to prevent people from acting like jackasses. It'd just have to be decided whether to allow non-flaming/trolling dissent and then that could be enforced rigorously.

Seriously, a lot of what prevents drama on a board is just staff enforcing rules consistently and logically. The rules themselves don't really matter that much as long as they don't blatantly contradict common sense.

 

[Dashell]

Well, I can see what they mean. I agree with you, but I think they're point is it always becomes a problem sooner or later. Kinda of like how I didn't want people at my One Piece forum to mention this other forum that was like our rival. It'd just create drama, but I hated to make a rule against it cause of Freedom of Speech and all that.

The only other thing is if people would have to be okayed to join the club or group but that's basically just teams I think.

Of course if The Man really change your guy's minds that'd be neat too =D

 

[Max Payne]

you know... if I said something like that back in the day, I'd be flamed to hell and back

War has changed.

 

[Makoeyes987]

No. What's more simple is not having it in the first place , and even if you warn them, that's not gonna deter everyone. It'll still *happen,* piss people off and there's just no reason to open up that pandora's box of bullshit. We don't need clubs like that. That didn't work before on ACF and club trolling became a problem. I don't want that problem here and it's better to hold posters to a higher standard in commenting on what they like, like intelligent human beings, rather than acting trollish and stating immature hate towards crap.

 

[Dashell]

Frankly I think the worser thing ACF did was member clubs. IIRC you couldn't have anti member clubs... I was very devastated when I heard this No Anti Nique club.

BTW when i said a few pages ago that I was going to make an anti Cloud club regardless of what you guys said, I meant I was going to make it elsewhere, not here... sorry that came out wrong.

 

[Munatik]

IMO hate clubs are really just fan clubs under a delusional, bullshit heading. You hate a character, yet have the heart and energy to dedicate a hate thread/club to them? Come on, let's be more honest.

To be more clear, I too think hate threads are worthless and therefore I'm OK with their being a rule against them.

That being said, just because you want to abuse Cloud, doesn't mean you hate him.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think that's common sense. I'm sure a member would be pretty pissed off if they found out a hate club existed based on them on the forum they frequent.

 

[Ⓐaron]

No. What's more simple is not having it in the first place , and even if you warn them, that's not gonna deter everyone. It'll still *happen,* piss people off and there's just no reason to open up that pandora's box of bullshit. We don't need clubs like that. That didn't work before on ACF and club trolling became a problem. I don't want that problem here and it's better to hold posters to a higher standard in commenting on what they like, like intelligent human beings, rather than acting trollish and stating immature hate towards crap.

It's possible to allow anti-character discussion without tolerating inane crap, you realise.

And ACF had a problem with drama because it implemented everything that could conceivably result in drama poorly. For example, the spam section shouldn't have been visible to everyone; it should have had a warning on its forum description that content within it could be offensive to the faint-hearted and been password protected. Then the people who went in and bawwwwwed about being offended by the KKK references and constant trolling would have only had themselves to blame for viewing it, and there would've been little to no drama outside the spam section. Maybe something similar should have been done with anti-character clubs. I never really viewed them much but if the trolling was as bad as you say then it sounds like people just went in not knowing what to expect.

Password-protecting content works really well. We haven't had any complaints about ACC spoilers because they're all confined to a specific section of the forum which people have to consent to viewing before they see anything from it. I don't see why other sensitive material can't be handled similarly. Indeed, in my experience doing so pretty much removes all conflict from the main forums entirely - FG has pretty much had no drama since I forced the flaming to be contained to a specific section. Of course, that section has also been almost entirely dead, and the entirety of the forum hasn't been all that much better, but you can't have everything - TLS isn't a forum that's fed on drama and flaming for the past few years so it should have a much better experience with it.

 

[Dashell]

I think that's common sense. I'm sure a member would be pretty pissed off if they found out a hate club existed based on them on the forum they frequent.

I guarantee it, no attention whore would hate this.

That being said, just because you want to abuse Cloud, doesn't mean you hate him. [/COLOR]

Exactly my point a few pages ago... Hence me bringing up S&M
But I have a feeling if I brought my... thoughts... about Cloud abuse into the Cloud club they wouldn't appreciate it so much.. .

 

[Dashell]

We can have yaoi clubs right?

 

[Makoeyes987]

But why do you need that here in the first place? It's stupid. If you want to discuss a character you don't like intelligently, we let that happen. That's not the problem. It's the stupid bashing that we're talking about. There's no reason to let that happen, nor any reason to have a club for it. If you don't like something, then don't be stupid and make a club for it. It's immature and bizarre. If you hate something, don't bother with it. The minute you're "anti" something is when you should start thinking about utilizing your time elsewhere. Clubs are for members to discuss what they like. It's a positive section of LIKING something, not a place for people to start slagging. It's gonna piss people off, and it's gonna be problem. ACF's stupidity aside, it still was a bad idea to have them next to each other in the first place.

That's way too much work for something of such little value and of such levels of stupidity.

@Quexinos

A general yaoi club in the club section isn't good since its a section for FF clubs. But if you want to make a general yaoi social group...

 

[Ⓐaron]

We can have yaoi clubs right?

The Clack club would seem to indicate that to be the case.

 

[Ⓐaron]

But why do you need that here in the first place?

Because TLS is way more active than some random forum on the corners of internets no one visits. TLS has 900 posts in the last 24 hours, FCF probably has fifty and FFOF even less.

It's stupid. If you want to discuss a character you don't like intelligently, we let that happen. That's not the problem. It's the stupid bashing that we're talking about.

I don't see how posting and discussing lulzy pictures of "Cloud abuse" is any more stupid than posting fake and lulzy proofs of how Clack and Aerifa are clearly canon, or any of the numerous topics I could come up with from General Discussion. I'm not saying stupid bashing should be allowed, obviously there should be guidelines.

It's gonna piss people off, and it's gonna be problem.

If people wander into a section that explicitly warns them they're likely to be offended, and are offended... isn't that their problem, not ours?

 

[Max Payne]

It's possible to allow anti-character discussion without tolerating inane crap, you realise.

And ACF had a problem with drama because it implemented everything that could conceivably result in drama poorly. For example, the spam section shouldn't have been visible to everyone; it should have had a warning on its forum description that content within it could be offensive to the faint-hearted and been password protected. Then the people who went in and bawwwwwed about being offended by the KKK references and constant trolling would have only had themselves to blame for viewing it, and there would've been little to no drama outside the spam section. Maybe something similar should have been done with anti-character clubs. I never really viewed them much but if the trolling was as bad as you say then it sounds like people just went in not knowing what to expect.

Password-protecting content works really well. We haven't had any complaints about ACC spoilers because they're all confined to a specific section of the forum which people have to consent to viewing before they see anything from it. I don't see why other sensitive material can't be handled similarly. Indeed, in my experience doing so pretty much removes all conflict from the main forums entirely - FG has pretty much had no drama since I forced the flaming to be contained to a specific section. Of course, that section has also been almost entirely dead, and the entirety of the forum hasn't been all that much better, but you can't have everything - TLS isn't a forum that's fed on drama and flaming for the past few years so it should have a much better experience with it.

not worth the trouble if you ask me.