Any Final Fantasy VII remake "might delete things, add elements"

#26
I agree with Mog. But that I said I really don't think the Compil;ation requires too many changes to the original. Maybe some sidequests, maybe some incidental NPC dialogue, ruins of Modeoheim, whatever. But the part that everyone's most concerned about - Genesis at Nibelheim - by all rights shouldn't be an issue.

The only version of Nibelheim we see are from Cloud's memories, both illusionary and real. There's no reason Clould would be aware of Genesis' presence and therefore he wasn't present in his memory. Indeed, that's always why I thought they put Genesis where they did - in a place that wouldn't really interfere with Cloud's versions of events. Even if Zack did mention Genesis to him, it's entirely likely that wouldn't mean anything to Cloud. He saw him...once? For a few moments. Genesis may have been known, but he was no Sephiroth, and Cloud was always clearly focused on him.
 
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#27
Yeah, additions and clean-ups would not bother me. To give an example, sorta similar to the Pokemon remakes with FireRed & LeafGreen and HeartGold & SoulSilver, those were well done remakes that had additions.
 

The Twilight Mexican

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#28
If Square Enix was to remake RPG classic Final Fantasy 7 it might not be able to resist the temptation to make significant changes to the original game, according to veteran franchise producer Yoshinori Kitase.
More proof I should be in charge of their game-making decisions. :monster:

I'm fine with changes, FFVII is horribly dated and a painfully easy game with the exception of one or two minigames.

Keep the story and art style the same and I'm good.
Those are the things I'd expect them to change the most. They can't even avoid changing those things in sequels and prequels, so God only knows what would happen if you turned them loose on the original itself.

But, yeah, the gameplay would need some updating.

They've already got a framework to follow so it should be easier than making a new FF where they have to write a fucking plot and create characters from scratch.
That part of the development process takes the least amount of time, really. FFVII is unusual by today's game-making practices in that the story was being written even as scenes were being rendered.

Kissmammal2000 said:
Why do I get the feeling hes talking about 'this guy are sick'? They should just leave a 'shitty translation' option in a remake for nostalgia value.
Like Shademp and Force said, I would be surprised if Kitase even knows about that stuff. He's hopelessly out of touch to start with, and doesn't speak English on top of that.

He'd need the reason for it being funny explained to him. Along with how to make good game-making decisions in general. :monster:

I think this remake is going to be their trump card; when everything fails completely and miserably, they're going to try an FF7 remake because, good or bad, they know it's going to rake in so much money, it'll be ridiculous.
They'd already be doing it if they were that confident in it. SE is a business first and foremost, after all. Their shareholders want to see what will turn a profit before (if?) artistic integrity even becomes a topic for discussion.

Faye Valentine said:
But what of voice acting, I wonder? Yay or Nay?

I think I wouldn't mind some voice acting for important scenes but...just make it decent. and pick better people for Aerith and Tifa, please
Japanese or English Tifa and Aerith? Have no problems with the Japanese, but can't stand the English voices they've given Aerith.

As long as Genesis isn't mentioned anywhere in the game, I'd be all right with a few changes.
I feel like they wouldn't be able to resist including him at some point. With how pervasive they're making him, someone new to FFVII probably wouldn't even pick up on Sephiroth being the big bad.

Honestly I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say that it would be really really dumb for them not to fit it in with the rest of the Compilation. It already exists, and honestly SE should just nut up and fit it in with the rest. Also it would be really really dumb to not change the dialogue and translation.
I second Force's question: what changes would really be necessary to the original game's events in order to make it better fit with the Compilation? Stuff like Cloud recognizing Reno was already in the original, though it never got a straightforward explanation (even the Ultimania Omega just speculated about the reason).

I mean, yeah, it wouldn't hurt to have an additional scene or two where Tseng acknowledges that the headjob in the SOLDIER get-up is that country kid he went on a mission with back in the day, but Case of Shin-Ra already seems to field that and the other inconsistencies related to his character.

It goes without saying that there'd be a new translation, though. Sony wouldn't be publishing the game this time around, blessedly.

Mog said:
I mean why would I pay upwards of 60 dollars for the exact same fucking game? Why would anyone?
Not saying it isn't a good question, but the Japanese gamers fall for that shit every single time a new SE game comes out. :monster:

Force said:
I agree with Mog. But that I said I really don't think the Compil;ation requires too many changes to the original. Maybe some sidequests, maybe some incidental NPC dialogue, ruins of Modeoheim, whatever. But the part that everyone's most concerned about - Genesis at Nibelheim - by all rights shouldn't be an issue.

The only version of Nibelheim we see are from Cloud's memories, both illusionary and real. There's no reason Clould would be aware of Genesis' presence and therefore he wasn't present in his memory. Indeed, that's always why I thought they put Genesis where they did - in a place that wouldn't really interfere with Cloud's versions of events.
You're absolutely right that everybody's concern is that fucker. You're also right that they could easily present the scene exactly as they did in the original, without even referencing Genesis.

The thing is, Cloud really should be aware of Genesis's presence at the reactor, and I don't doubt they would feel the need to include him somehow or other.

Cloud gets knocked out protecting Tifa when Genesis and his copies attack at the reactor, Zack sees him and is in the room during his conversation with Sephiroth (Cloud ends up copying Zack's memories of events, so it stands to reason this was absorbed too), and Zack certainly would have discussed what happened with him at some point.

Force said:
Even if Zack did mention Genesis to him, it's entirely likely that wouldn't mean anything to Cloud. He saw him...once? For a few moments. Genesis may have been known, but he was no Sephiroth, and Cloud was always clearly focused on him.
While true, Genesis's fame would have likely been second only to Sephiroth's. And given Cloud would have ran into the bastard on two missions (Modeoheim and Nibelheim), he definitely should have stood out in his memory.
 
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#29
Those are the things I'd expect them to change the most. They can't even avoid changing those things in sequels and prequels, so God only knows what would happen if you turned them loose on the original itself.

But, yeah, the gameplay would need some updating.
Hey they don't have to change the story at all. Just update it. They don't need to change that, it's one of the things that people still enjoy today despite all of the other issues the game has.

The art style can easily be updated and still retain the same aesthetic style.
 

Marle

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#31
Japanese or English Tifa and Aerith? Have no problems with the Japanese, but can't stand the English voices they've given Aerith.
For Aerith, definitely english. I wouldn't change Maaya Sakamoto for anything. But Mena Suvari? Good God, not again. Her CC VA was an improvement but won't really suit Aerith in the OG. Mandy Moore, sadly enough, was actually the best of the bunch but still, I feel like they can find someone better still.

For Tifa, it would be her Japanese VA. I just...so squeaky. And not Tifa. At all. Rachel Leigh Cook isn't bad but, just like with Aerith, I'm more than positive they can find better. but they most likely won't
 
#32
They won't bring back Mena Suvari. If for no other reason than I am sure Andrea Bowen is cheaper. Also it'd be weird to switch back to Suvari anyway after Crisis Core and Dissidia used Bowen.
 

Octo

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#34
Aww.... but I liked "stoned as fuck and emotionally vapid" Aerith. :monster:
Aerith: Duude you came! Even though you're like.... totally about to break. That's a good sign.

[Aerith puts her hand on his arm.]

Aerith: So....uh... why did you come again?

Cloud: I think ... I want to be forgiven, more than anything.

Aerith: Duuuuude.....wait. What?

Cloud: I want to be forgiven.

Aerith: Yeahhh...no. Dave's not here man.

Sorry :monster:
 
#35
While true, Genesis's fame would have likely been second only to Sephiroth's. And given Cloud would have ran into the bastard on two missions (Modeoheim and Nibelheim), he definitely should have stood out in his memory.
Are you basing Genesis' second-place fame entirely based on the club of fangirls in Sector 8? Why is Genesis so pissy about Sephiroth getting all the glory if he's almost just as famous? After all, didn't nearly all of Sephiroth's fame come from the war with Wutai? Genesis deserted during it so he didn't garner any of that.

I still think people take those fangirl clubs way too seriously. Besides them does anyone who isn't in SOLDIER even mention Genesis? Sephiroth was Shinra's posterboy, he's the one they held up. I would wager Sephiroth is a LOT more famous than Genesis ever was. NO ONE knows who Zack is in FF7 except his parents and people who personally met him. Again, he's got a fangirl club, but I maintain SE was just poking fun at fangirls with those.

I don't think Cloud would ever have paid attention to Genesis or what he looked like. In Modeoheim he was assigned as an escort for Zack and Tseng, and the copies wear masks anyway for the most part.

Or, if you would prefer an answer that rips on CC - if Shinra successfully covered up the existence of a man who had exact duplicates attacking major population centers, dude must not be that memorable.

Anyway, I'm sure you're right in that Genesis' existence would be mentioned in some way, shape, or form. I just don't think the Nibelheim flashback is it because it seemed like Nojima stuck him in the one place he could claim Cloud wouldn't have fabricated.
 

Makoeyes987

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#36
Aerith: Duude you came! Even though you're like.... totally about to break. That's a good sign.

[Aerith puts her hand on his arm.]

Aerith: So....uh... why did you come again?

Cloud: I think ... I want to be forgiven, more than anything.

Aerith: Duuuuude.....wait. What?

Cloud: I want to be forgiven.

Aerith: Yeahhh...no. Dave's not here man.

Sorry :monster:
Sad thing is, that's almost exactly how the scene played out. Very little hyperbole there. :monster:

Are you basing Genesis' second-place fame entirely based on the club of fangirls in Sector 8? Why is Genesis so pissy about Sephiroth getting all the glory if he's almost just as famous? After all, didn't nearly all of Sephiroth's fame come from the war with Wutai? Genesis deserted during it so he didn't garner any of that.
We was also famous in Banora thanks to him being the mayor's "son" and having been really popular with the people there. He was a famous and well known SOLDIER. The G Reports of Dirge even confirm that.

I still think people take those fangirl clubs way too seriously. Besides them does anyone who isn't in SOLDIER even mention Genesis? Sephiroth was Shinra's posterboy, he's the one they held up. I would wager Sephiroth is a LOT more famous than Genesis ever was. NO ONE knows who Zack is in FF7 except his parents and people who personally met him. Again, he's got a fangirl club, but I maintain SE was just poking fun at fangirls with those.
The fangirls have their own Ultimania section on their importance. Your opinion is invalid :monster:

Yeah, Sephiroth is more famous but that's thanks to him being around longer and having served as the main hero of an entire war. Oh, and being the strongest SOLDIER ever.

I don't think Cloud would ever have paid attention to Genesis or what he looked like. In Modeoheim he was assigned as an escort for Zack and Tseng, and the copies wear masks anyway for the most part.
It'd be very unlikely though he would not see Genesis himself. He *was* there and *was* aware of the mission to stop him.

Or, if you would prefer an answer that rips on CC - if Shinra successfully covered up the existence of a man who had exact duplicates attacking major population centers, dude must not be that memorable.

Anyway, I'm sure you're right in that Genesis' existence would be mentioned in some way, shape, or form. I just don't think the Nibelheim flashback is it because it seemed like Nojima stuck him in the one place he could claim Cloud wouldn't have fabricated.
What would be cool is that when you visit the Shinra Building during the WEAPON attack, you can go to the same floors that were presented in Crisis Core, and play around on the SOLDIER Virtual Reality System and do missions and optional boss fights against Genesis, Angeal, and even Zack.

That would be a great way of including them in the game without having to really do much with them in the actual FFVII story. There would be no plot contortions and yet there'd still be a link to the Compilation and the plot.

...And who wouldn't enjoy beating the shit out of Genesis? :awesome:
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
#37
Are you basing Genesis' second-place fame entirely based on the club of fangirls in Sector 8? Why is Genesis so pissy about Sephiroth getting all the glory if he's almost just as famous? After all, didn't nearly all of Sephiroth's fame come from the war with Wutai? Genesis deserted during it so he didn't garner any of that.
To be fair, the Wutai War lasted for about ten years, and Genesis deserted during the very end of it. It's not like he didn't serve his fair share of the bulk of it.

And well, concerning is 'well knownness', if Genesis was a hero AND a high ranking official (he was at least one), speaking from the military perspective myself, it would be pretty sad if Cloud didn't know who he was. This is just real life speaking here so I can't say how it is in FF7ville, but in boot camp we HAVE to memorize the highest Naval ranking officials, like, it's a literal requirement to graduate basic training.

If Genesis had a high place in a chain of command along with being a war hero, yeah, anyone who's even got past basic training in the Shinra military should know who he is. Even if Shinra tried to whitewash him out of their records, everyone would still know who he is.
 
#38
Sure you have to memorize high-ranking officials, but do you have to memorize the most elite members of Special Forces in a different branch? FF7's a little wishy-washy on whether SOLDIER actually command troops. But it doesn't really seem like they do. Genesis didn't even take any grunts with him when he deserted just other SOLDIER.

Now would SOLDIER have to know who the First Classes were? Absolutely. Rank and file infantrymen in the normal army? I doubt it.

Xelloss said:
We was also famous in Banora thanks to him being the mayor's "son" and having been really popular with the people there.
Well of course. There are soliders in Iraq and Afghanistan that are famous in my hometown becuase they're from there, but that doesn't mean anything.

My point is Shinra didn't advertise Genesis. They didn't advertise any SOILDER besides Sephiroth. No one knows who Zack is and he was obviously the second strongest SOLDIER in the military.
 
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#39
One thing I would not mind added to a remake (since to my best recollection I don't believe this was ever touched upon in the original...) is to see Aerith (and maybe some Turks or Shinra people) react to seeing Cloud with the Buster Sword (it was unique and pretty recognizable/associated with Angeal and Zack). Especially Aerith, I would imagine that she would have been slightly perturbed seeing some guy carrying her deceased (whether she was in denial about sensing his death is another discussion) boyfriend's cherished weapon.
 
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Strangelove

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hitoshura
#40
Add Modeoheim ruins, then add as an extra superboss some decayed and mutated Genesis Copy. Reference to the events of Crisis Core and some new gameplay element, but no influence on the main game.

I just think a big massive monster in that mine place when you fought Genesis seems pretty cool. Have it fill the entire mineshaft and make it a multi-stage battle where you're having to defeat part of it at a time :sadpanda:

I've now officially put more actual thought into a remake than Square has with years of "tehehe, I don't know~, maaaybe we'll make it... someday, it'll be so much work though, it'll take years and years! Have 17 different Kingdom Hearts in the meantime ^.^"
 
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#41
That's the problem with adding significant crap to a world's backstory.

Genesis was this hot shit SOLDIER, but somehow there's no mention of his anywhere else and Shinra somehow wiped out all trance of him? What horseshit.

The dude was famous, had fanclubs and shit, fought along side MPs and met plenty of people during his life I'm sure.

Unless Shinra found a way to wipe memories, the excuse that shinra wiped all traces of him clean is complete bullshit and a dumb way to excuse his lack of presence elsewhere in the world.
 

Tetsujin

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#42
Seriously though. In DC Genesis was all kept secret and shit and then in CC he is a well known dude who has hundreds of clones running about no less. What, did you do the flashy-thing with the population of the world? No one remembers the army of lookalikes from a couple of years back? Bullshit.
 
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#43
Seriously though. In DC Genesis was all kept secret and shit and then in CC he is a well known dude who has hundreds of clones running about no less. What, did you do the flashy-thing with the population of the world? No one remembers the army of lookalikes from a couple of years back? Bullshit.
Yeah man it's complete fucking nonsense.

The dude had a huge presence in the world, at least big enough that you couldn't do away with it by shredding a few files and wiping a couple hard drives.
 

Vivi

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#45
I always assumed that Genesis was famous in Midgar with the fanclubs and whatnot, but wasn't really well known in the rest of the world.

But it also makes sense that he was jealous of Sephiroth's fame because he was fucking crazy.
 

The Twilight Mexican

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#47
Are you basing Genesis' second-place fame entirely based on the club of fangirls in Sector 8? Why is Genesis so pissy about Sephiroth getting all the glory if he's almost just as famous? After all, didn't nearly all of Sephiroth's fame come from the war with Wutai? Genesis deserted during it so he didn't garner any of that.

I still think people take those fangirl clubs way too seriously. Besides them does anyone who isn't in SOLDIER even mention Genesis? Sephiroth was Shinra's posterboy, he's the one they held up. I would wager Sephiroth is a LOT more famous than Genesis ever was. NO ONE knows who Zack is in FF7 except his parents and people who personally met him. Again, he's got a fangirl club, but I maintain SE was just poking fun at fangirls with those.
I'm not basing Genesis's fame entirely on the fanclubs, no, but also the fact that Shin-Ra bothered to make a public announcement that he and Angeal had been killed in action. Also, as you yourself mentioned in your next post -- Seph was their posterboy. At the very least, he would have had fanclubs, and after 10 years, it would be very surprising if nobody at Shin-Ra working the media would have had to answer a question like, "Who are some of Sephiroth's friends?"

It would also be a little silly to glamorize SOLDIER but not anyone else in the group, when you've got three people who stand out, not just one.

Really, not just because the fanclubs are featured in the CC Complete Guide's Keyword section, and not just because the point is made that Genesis's Red Leather Coats fanclub was sponsored by his parents in Banora -- but it's just most plausible to assume that these things would exist.

Sure, Zack may not have really had a fanclub (wasn't it entirely optional whether it even exists, as well as how popular it gets?), but Angeal, Genesis and Seph having them is far more likely than not.

As for what reason Gensis would have to be jealous of Seph's fame if both got some exposure, let's consider Topher Grace and most of the cast of "That 70's Show." They all had the same exposure as Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis, who ended up being the stars to emerge from that group. It's not like Fox pushed any of them more than the others, though. Things just worked out that way, and that's without any of them being the posterboy (or girl) like Seph was.

For that matter, as Vivi mentioned, Genesis is batshit insane, so that's really all the reason that guy needs.

Force said:
I don't think Cloud would ever have paid attention to Genesis or what he looked like. In Modeoheim he was assigned as an escort for Zack and Tseng, and the copies wear masks anyway for the most part.
Cloud would have at least been briefed on the purpose of the mission in Modeoheim, and -- especially after the announcement that Genesis was dead -- seeing the guy again in Nibelheim should have warranted a Solid Snake "!". Seeing as Genesis went in the Mt. Nibel reactor and left the same way as Zack and Seph, Cloud would have had to have seen him.

Force said:
Or, if you would prefer an answer that rips on CC - if Shinra successfully covered up the existence of a man who had exact duplicates attacking major population centers, dude must not be that memorable.
Or it might be a retarded, inconsistent notion in the first place. :awesome:

Force said:
Anyway, I'm sure you're right in that Genesis' existence would be mentioned in some way, shape, or form. I just don't think the Nibelheim flashback is it because it seemed like Nojima stuck him in the one place he could claim Cloud wouldn't have fabricated.
Well, we'll find out one of these days, if SE ever gets around to doing that remake. Maybe we should vote on whether that or Versus XIII is coming first. :monster:

Seriously though. In DC Genesis was all kept secret and shit and then in CC he is a well known dude who has hundreds of clones running about no less. What, did you do the flashy-thing with the population of the world? No one remembers the army of lookalikes from a couple of years back? Bullshit.
It's a little known fact that the Shin-Ra building is a giant neuralizer.

Honestly it's the exact same problem they have with Deepground. Methinks Square has an issue with scale.
By which you mean "common sense"? :awesome:
 

Guts

The Black Swordsman
AKA
Aithex, Atom
#48
This message has been retooled to you from one of my Skype conversations, but every word of this was/is mine.

Perhaps the biggest issue with all this is to me is that... A real ffvii remake can't just be an ffvii remake, like how a real satanist can't believe in the lore as theocratic heresy is what their religion is. ffvii stands for more than it's own content. ffvii stands for change, being offensively raw and honest with what it wants to do. Revolution.

An ffvii remake, to me, would have to scrape the best of east and west and redefine the JRPG, put it somewhere that matters.

At the least it'd have to blow annoying games like Shitrim out of the water, and relegate greats cut of it's own cloth like Xenoblade to the obscure but equal alternative Xeno series always was. Even a good, but extremely faithful remake might only get an 80-90 metacritic and lukewarm reception from us... Or, might luckily just be a solid blockbuster.

Success. As some might call it, anyway. But ffvii was more than even that. It was the signpost of a new era. A charming caricature of everything wrong and right with the 90s gaming industry, occasionally peering out of it to offer a more generalized review of life at that time.

That's ffvii. A remake should be a presentation flagship they board to revolutionize the genre, as it's source did.

As it is, I'm not entirely faithful in their ability to be successful, let alone industry defining.
 
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#49
An ffvii remake, to me, would have to scrape the best of east and west and redefine the JRPG, put it somewhere that matters.
Lolno.

It doesn't need to even attempt to be anything so pretentious.
 

Guts

The Black Swordsman
AKA
Aithex, Atom
#50
It's funny, when you break down pretense to it's raw context that covers things like... Technology shock, revolutionary features, flash over function. Those things pretty much defined FFVII. I mean yeah they didn't overtake it, but it was the first at many things.

It's not a bad thing to be relevant and influence your peers. Isn't that half of why FFVII was so impressive at it's time? I recall just moving the camera around on the world map was considered surprising back then.
 
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