Any Final Fantasy VII remake "might delete things, add elements"

[Octo]

God....its like kids playing 'finger guns' gone mad.....

.....

I'm totally going to do this now though

 

[Ryushikaze]

wait hold up. Ryu is that... you at 0:54????????? rolls over and dies.

also where is aki it can't be a discussion of butts without her.

Yeah, this was a short film my friends and I did for a musical. I am also one of the horrified kancho faces, the protective gear model, and the head in the ceiling.

 

[Kobato]

Warrior, Firion, and Bartz do not have listed Ages, IIRC, but could have been older than Cloud.

Bartz is listed as 20, Firion is listed is 18.

YOU LIE

 

[Ryushikaze]

Bartz is listed as 20, Firion is listed is 18.

YOU LIE

Where is this? I don't recall it from their OGs or the material surrounding them. I do not doubt, my statement was qualified with 'if I remember correctly' after all, I'm just curious what the source is.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

also where is aki it can't be a discussion of butts without her.

whats going on

 

[OWA-2]

Did you start the remake already, Square? No? Then please, shut the fuck up!

Nothing article. If they were remake to FFVII, they would make some changes? Derp.

I love how they make teasers about a FFVII Remake every year when they have absolutely no intention of making it. It's design solely to keep the fans buying their shit until they can actually pull their finger out and make a decent game.

This.

 

[AerithLives]

They need to be very very careful. If it ends up anything like Final Fantasy 13 then i shall raise hell!

 

[Roger]

I don't think Cloud would ever have paid attention to Genesis or what he looked like. In Modeoheim he was assigned as an escort for Zack and Tseng, and the copies wear masks anyway for the most part.

Sorry to drag up an old argument but I don't understand this logic.

Yes, Cloud was a mere escort. To Genesis, Hollander, Angeal, Zack or Tseng perspective Cloud wasn't that important.

But we aren't talking about their perspective, we're talking Cloud's perspective here. And I'm for Cloud that mission was the most exciting day of that entire year for him.
And yeah, Cloud is a Sephiroth fanboy, his mind isn't incapable of storing non-Sephiroth related info however. He's not retarded. Fighting rebel SOLDIER operatives isn't the kind of thing 14-15 year old Cloud is like to just go "not interested, just gonna do this on auto-pilot and forget the whole ordeal" at.

If Shinra successfully covered up the existence of a man who had exact duplicates attacking major population centers, dude must not be that memorable.

The censored his name in the media, that doesn't equate to deleting Cloud getting attacked by Genesis outside the Nibelheim mako reactor from Cloud's memory.

And isn't it kind of big deal in CC that Jenova's powers lets on copy another persons ability and such onto yourself and that's what Cloud did to Zack and that's why he can remember Zack's conversation with Sephiroth to the letter (save for Genesis et al), to the point that he can recall exactly what the monster in the pod that Zack and Sephiroth looked though the little window at looked like?

If Genesis is left out, it's jut gonna make it seem like they retconned him out again.

 

[ForceStealer]

But we aren't talking about their perspective, we're talking Cloud's perspective here. And I'm for Cloud that mission was the most exciting day of that entire year for him.

That may well be the case, and I think that would make Cloud put all of his focus on Hollander, the man a SOLDIER congratulated him for impeding and ordered him to capture.

And yeah, Cloud is a Sephiroth fanboy, his mind isn't incapable of storing non-Sephiroth related info however. He's not retarded. Fighting rebel SOLDIER operatives isn't the kind of thing 14-15 year old Cloud is like to just go "not interested, just gonna do this on auto-pilot and forget the whole ordeal" at.

Does Cloud know they're fighting rebel SOLDIER operatives? I doubt it. Shinra probably just ordered him to stick with Zack and Tseng and watch their backs.

The censored his name in the media, that doesn't equate to deleting Cloud getting attacked by Genesis outside the Nibelheim mako reactor from Cloud's memory.

Genesis copies attacked him, who wear masks. As for the "that's the only way Genesis could leave" thing, how did walk down the steps to talk to Sephiroth then?

And isn't it kind of big deal in CC that Jenova's powers lets on copy another persons ability and such onto yourself and that's what Cloud did to Zack and that's why he can remember Zack's conversation with Sephiroth to the letter (save for Genesis et al), to the point that he can recall exactly what the monster in the pod that Zack and Sephiroth looked though the little window at looked like?

If Genesis is left out, it's jut gonna make it seem like they retconned him out again.

Well my argument above was based on the idea that Zack either didn't mention him in regaling Cloud with the tale, or it meant little to nothing to Cloud and he didn't retain it. But since arguments that rip on SE seem to go farther howabout this one: laziness.

To just stick Genesis in the Kalm flashback in that scene in the OG would not make any sense considering the dude doesn't show up before or after in that flashback or indeed anywhere else in the game. I don't even see the place where they would put, it wouldn't be in the Lifestream flashback because at that point you only see things that the real Cloud personally remembers. So this character named Genesis would show up for a set of lines with Sephiroth and then vanish from the story altogether? That wouldn be confusing as hell. It would take some big time exposition changes to explain who Genesis is and why he was there that I just don't see them doing.
His presence there served some purpose in Crisis Core, to push Sephiroth closer to madness, to allow for Sephroth to connect the dots for a bit more reason than the fairly wide leap of logic he makes in the original game, and to etablish Genesis as more of a villain. To have him in the Kalm Flashback would add nothing.

This is why I thought they stuck Genesis where they did, one place that shouldn't REALLY retcon Cloud's retelling of events in Kalm. Were they sloppy about it? Well, naturally. But I don't think his lack of a presence would be "retconning him out again." Besides, relying on Cloud to establish historical canon is a shaky proposition.

 

[Roger]

That may well be the case, and I think that would make Cloud put all of his focus on Hollander, the man a SOLDIER congratulated him for impeding and ordered him to capture.

Does Cloud know they're fighting rebel SOLDIER operatives? I doubt it. Shinra probably just ordered him to stick with Zack and Tseng and watch their backs.

Genesis copies attacked him, who wear masks. As for the "that's the only way Genesis could leave" thing, how did walk down the steps to talk to Sephiroth then?

Hardly all Genesis copies wear masks. And even if they did, Cloud and Tseng fight Angeal while Zack fights Genesis. I assume Cloud is capable of recognising Angeal's uniform as being vaguely similiar to Zack's. To say nothing of the fact Zack was probably crying his brains out the entire helicopter ride home. And Cloud fights Genesis copies at Modeoheim, Junon, Nibelheim and probably when Tseng was reporting Genesis copies to be attacking Shinra around the world.

Even if Cloud never asked a single question about the organization they were fighting for two years and I am seriously exasperated that you seem to believe this, he'd still have to blind, deaf and dumb to not be capable of picking up they were fighting SOLDIER operatives.

And I don't know that this was even a secret. Genesis being at the head of them maybe a secret, the desertion of SOLDIER was food for casual loungeroom conversation as far we know.

And I assume he attacked Cloud on the way in, obviously.

But really I can't understand why you think Cloud would never ever ever ever ever just think to just ask Tseng or Zack "Hey, what we are doing?"

To just stick Genesis in the Kalm flashback in that scene in the OG would not make any sense considering the dude doesn't show up before or after in that flashback or indeed anywhere else in the game. I don't even see the place where they would put, it wouldn't be in the Lifestream flashback because at that point you only see things that the real Cloud personally remembers. So this character named Genesis would show up for a set of lines with Sephiroth and then vanish from the story altogether? That wouldn be confusing as hell. It would take some big time exposition changes to explain who Genesis is and why he was there that I just don't see them doing.
His presence there served some purpose in Crisis Core, to push Sephiroth closer to madness, to allow for Sephroth to connect the dots for a bit more reason than the fairly wide leap of logic he makes in the original game, and to etablish Genesis as more of a villain. To have him in the Kalm Flashback would add nothing.

This is why I thought they stuck Genesis where they did, one place that shouldn't REALLY retcon Cloud's retelling of events in Kalm. Were they sloppy about it? Well, naturally. But I don't think his lack of a presence would be "retconning him out again." Besides, relying on Cloud to establish historical canon is a shaky proposition.

This would be true if CC didn't retcon their entire reason for going there. In CC they went to Nibelheim because the device Cloud, Zack and Tseng recovered from Modeoheim was stolen and sighted here.

 

[Shademp]

Legions of monsters have spawned near a regional mako reactor. The workers have all gone missing. Local SOLDIER operatives have also vanished. The company is dispatching additional operatives to investigate the matter.
...
The missing operatives were the ones tracking Lazard. Also, they had reported a strange podlike device in the area.
...
Probably the same device that was stolen from Modeoheim.
...
Our orders are to investigate the reactor. They mention nothing of...old friends.

So it starts with monsters spawning and workers going missing. Shinra suspects Lazard and Hollander might be involved. Operatives are sent there to investigate, but even though it is not clearly stated in this scene, a natural part of the mission is to dispatch the monsters and figure out why they have appeared. It's a multi-purpose mission.

The matter then gets handed to Sephiroth, whose only direct order, it seems, is to investigate the reactor. In OG the mission is to figure out why the reactor is malfunctioning, but the new wording investigate is not that troublesome as far as retcons go.

What confuses me is if the 'no mention of old friends' part means that the possible Hollander-connection is not part of their mission statement, but simply information that Sephiroth picked up as he is interested in knowing where Genesis is. To me, the scene is unclear as to the full extent of their official orders. All we know is that their orders were to investigate the reactor.

This goes well in hand with the OG. The monsters are also an issue. The Modeoheim-Hollander-Lazard connection is thusly not a problematic retcon. The main purpose for going to Nibelheim is the same in OG and CC, however CC adds a twist.


EDIT: Just for clarification, I use the word "retcon" in the meaning that all additions to previously non-existent or empty parts in the narrative count as retcons, even when they are not direct changes to (and do not contradict) earlier canon.

 

[Roger]

What confuses me is if the 'no mention of old friends' part means that the possible Hollander-connection is not part of their mission statement, but simply information that Sephiroth picked up as he is interested in knowing where Genesis is. To me, the scene is unclear as to the full extent of their official orders. All we know is that their orders were to investigate the reactor.

Forgot about that. Operatives tracking Lazard go missing, orders to investigate don't mention "old friends" i.e. Lazard. That's great, Shinra.

 

[Shademp]

Forgot about that. Operatives tracking Lazard go missing, orders to investigate don't mention "old friends" i.e. Lazard. That's great, Shinra.

That's the part that confuses me though. Does Lazard really count as an "old friend"? The only friend I reckon he could be thinking of is Genesis, but I don't know if Hollander or Lazard is on his facebook friend list. =/

If his only real concern is Genesis, then I have to assume that the plural "friends" is used casually without actually referring to multiple friends.