Any Final Fantasy VII remake "might delete things, add elements"

[Octo]

Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses. I don't agree and I hope I've explained why. I think that SE need to get back up to standard before they even attempt to remake FFVII, and I feel that something 'revolutionary' would be asking for trouble.

EDIT: and for the record, I do understand I think. Its very easy to misread someones tone on the internet, since being here I have realised that what I thought we're nasty arguments just turned out to be 'banter' between friends. So try not to take anything personally ok?

 

[Geostigma]

"I totally hate it when people derail a thread and make it about personal quarrels, so with keeping this in mind ill just keep making posts that have nothing to do with the thread or topic at hand and keep making statements about how i hate certain things and the others around me keep deliberately displaying those qualities that i really dislike. Like gawd, why cant THEY just stay on topic."

TL;DR, guts want people to start talking about the topic rather then your psuedo intellectual BS? Then start talking about the topic as well and dont jump down someones throat when they have a differing opinion. Or an opinion that doesnt try to compare apples to oranges for that matter.

edit:


As for the topic. I havent trusted SE with any FF title in many years and honestly the only games ive enjoyed that they actually made over the last few years was probably FF12 and its DS sequel thingy.
If they want to go ahead and try to ruin FF7 even more , then i atleast ask them to make a few more towns and what not. The towns in FF7 were just so wide spread, and having another real city would be interesting.

Its just so strange thinking Midgar was the only city on the entire planet, and is somehow getting Shinra super rich by supplying electricity to all these backwater towns.

 

[Strangelove]

Your opinion is as valid as anyone elses. I don't agree and I hope I've explained why. I think that SE need to get back up to standard before they even attempt to remake FFVII, and I feel that something 'revolutionary' would be asking for trouble.

Can you make something revolutionary, which would involve doing things vastly different from what came before, and still retain the spirit of the original?

Revolution seems like it would be better left to something completely new than something based on an old game.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Don't expect to see a remake or conclusion to the Compilation within our lifetime, guys.

Copied and pasted from the FFXIII-2 thread:

------------------------

Interview with Motomu Toriyama & Yoshinori Kitase, about FFXIII-2.

Well, there goes whatever confidence I was building in Kitase and Toriyama. They clearly haven't learned a goddamn thing.

I have a very confusing question to ask so … sorry. Right now, do you think Eastern gamers are more accepting of Western games than Western gamers are of Eastern games?
Toriyama: We are in the era of high definition consoles, and graphics are expected to be a lot better and more real, so I think Western gamers in general prefer games with realistic visuals. I think we have always been quite proud of the visuals we have achieved and the high quality of visuals in our works. In that sense, I think Square Enix has always been keeping up with the visual direction the world is wanting, so we have given what Western gamers want, in that extent. Other Oriental publishers may not have achieved that all the time, so that makes me think Western gamers are put off by these games these days.

No, dude, you guys at Square Enix are the ones obssessed with visuals. Western gamers especially are not concerned with you spending three days polishing a single fucking rock.

We're very much satisfied with the visuals in games like "Drake's Deception," "Gears of War 3," "Mass Effect" (any of them), "Red Dead Redemption," "Skyrim" (or anything else from Bethesda) and "God of War III." The visuals aren't as realistic per se in any of these as they were in the FMVs of FFXIII -- but guess what? They're still gorgeous, and every last one of those games is far superior to FFXIII.

So, um, I'm not saying you necessarily need to learn English there, guys, and start perusing the forums of Western gamers or anything (EVEN THOUGH YOU SHOULD), but maybe, you know, hire someone who does and ... try actually learning something about your customers?

Does revisiting a previously established Final Fantasy world excite you? Do you have any interest in revisiting, say, Final Fantasy VII over another? In the past, you said that you wanted to make a sequel to XIII because you liked the universe and wanted to expand it. Do you feel the same way about another entry in the series?
Kitase: If we are talking exclusively about VII, we made a film that was intended to be the sequel. At the moment, we have no specific plans for making any sequels to past FF titles. FFVII was made over 10 years ago, and there are lots of fans that love the game. In a way, they have created their own FFVII world individually, so if we were to make a sequel, we would have to be very careful not to disturb fans' own individual picture of that universe. It's a very delicate thing to do. We'd have to tip-toe around it. At the moment, we don't have any plans.

There you have it, folks: they're never going to finish the Compilation of FFVII or do a remake.

God, these guys are so out of touch. I want to get mad at them, but I'm too embarrassed for them.

 

[Shademp]

Don't expect to see a remake or conclusion to the Compilation within our lifetime, guys.

Then we'll just have to find a way to steal their intellectual property and make the games ourselves. We can take the opportunity when Cthulhu rises from the sea and the world is in a total state of chaos.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I've actually given a lot of thought to the idea and have an extensive plot outlined, including side quests, mini-games, etc. Let's do it!

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Kitase: "In a way, they have created their own FFVII world individually, so if we were to make a sequel, we would have to be very careful not to disturb fans' own individual picture of that universe. It's a very delicate thing to do. We'd have to tip-toe around it."

Me: Where the fuck was that attitude when DoC was being thought up?!

 

[Max Payne]

Am I the only one that thought FFXIII didn't even look that great for a game that was so fucking linear?

Uncharted 2 impressed me a lot more.

 

[Cthulhu]

Yeah but they built a completely new engine for it! Come on, new engine MUST equal good graphics!11one.

It's not so much what the engine can do, it's what you do with it. I mean, Skyrim's engine is pretty much the same thing they used for Oblivion 4-5 years ago without anything major added to it (as far as I can see), but they did very nice things with the tools they got.

point is: Focus on gameplay and story, not so much on technology. Although I do like technology,

 

[Octo]

It's probably me getting old, but I find it really hard to relate to the characters in FF's these days. I just feel like SE create a bunch of good looking skinny people with exciting hair that are basically designed to get adolescent hearts racing.

I know that crazy hair and skimpy clothing isn't new to FF games, but there used to be more personality. Feels like SE put together FF now like they would put together a manufactured pop band.

That and I cant remember who it was, but Kitase or somebody pretty much stated that they were only interested in making FF games about younger characters

Anyway...

I don't know if all of you read that 'FFVII letters' thing that was frontpaged a while ago. It's worth a read. They touch upon the fact that even though the characters we're mainly depicted as blocky little lego people, the player understands that as a visual shorthand and our imagination fills in the blanks. I honestly think that this is the reason for FFVII's enduring popularity, we as players spent so much time thinking about it that it got ingrained in our heads.

A lot of games these days, and not just FF want to hand everything to you on a plate. They include reams of character information and lengthy cutscenes where everything gets explained ad nauseam. Its like you don't have to work that hard anymore, and for me anyway, it makes for a shallow experience.

There was also a great line in that article it about how richly detailed FFVIIs backdrops are, and even though we can't interact with that, it somehow does a better job at creating a believable world than being able to pick up a perfectly rendered loaf of bread in Oblivion, that looks just like every other loaf of bread

And yeah. we all have our own headcannons and such but there is a place where all of our perceptions overlap (unless we are totally batshit!) It wouldn't be impossible to create a remake that would at least be satisfactory to everyone.

Really I can't just see why, if the creators sat down and replayed the entire game with a nopepad. They could just say 'ok now this bit....what do I want to see here? How would I do it now? What is around that corner that we can't see?' Stuff like that.

I don't think theres one of us here who couldn't do that.

 

[Madame Mayor]

It's probably me getting old, but I find it really hard to relate to the characters in FF's these days. I just feel like SE create a bunch of good looking skinny people with exciting hair that are basically designed to get adolescent hearts racing.

Which is probably why I loved Sazh. Found him the most relatable among other things because he was just a father. Not a love interest. Not a kid or barely adult person acting like a kid. Just a regular dude pulled into the mess and given the option give up or keep going.

Everyone else was just really complicated except maybe Snow which might be why I also liked him.

@FF7 remake and graphics: RDR was probably one of the most stunning visual games because they took what they could do, and they did it right. They made vast open areas where I could look off to a point in the horizon, and then start riding and eventually I'd get to that point. No other game has impressed me as much visually except maybe Enslaved for different reasons.

 

[Octo]

Which is probably why I loved Sazh. Found him the most relatable among other things because he was just a father. Not a love interest. Not a kid or barely adult person acting like a kid. Just a regular dude pulled into the mess and given the option give up or keep going.

Yeah, I'm sure they do include older characters too, and by the sounds of things they tried to make him well rounded (but then they have to go and stick a bird in his afro or something )

How old has the oldest main character ever been in an FF? And by main I mean the main protagonist (like Cloud and Squall etc), not additional party members. I don't think theres ever been anyone over the age of 25.... I could be wrong though.

 

[Max Payne]

Yeah but they built a completely new engine for it! Come on, new engine MUST equal good graphics!11one.

It's not so much what the engine can do, it's what you do with it. I mean, Skyrim's engine is pretty much the same thing they used for Oblivion 4-5 years ago without anything major added to it (as far as I can see), but they did very nice things with the tools they got.

point is: Focus on gameplay and story, not so much on technology. Although I do like technology,

Skyrim is fucking beautiful, and it's environments are massive with an assload more content than any FF game. The only place the game fails a bit is animation.

SE needs to stop spewing fucking nonsense.

 

[Shademp]

It's probably me getting old, but I find it really hard to relate to the characters in FF's these days. I just feel like SE create a bunch of good looking skinny people with exciting hair that are basically designed to get adolescent hearts racing.

I know that crazy hair and skimpy clothing isn't new to FF games, but there used to be more personality. Feels like SE put together FF now like they would put together a manufactured pop band.

...

They touch upon the fact that even though the characters we're mainly depicted as blocky little lego people, the player understands that as a visual shorthand and our imagination fills in the blanks. I honestly think that this is the reason for FFVII's enduring popularity, we as players spent so much time thinking about it that it got ingrained in our heads.

When the characters were sprites, which is what the OG FFVII characters are the polygonal equivalents of (they stopped being "sprites" in that sense once FFVIII came around), there were more soul to them because they didn't look like actual humans. How do you translate this SNES-era j-rpg style into modern games? Well, one way would be to aim for a more animé-style direction. Bigger eyes, use of wacky sound effects when characters blink/jump/exclaim what-have-you. Maybe with some gravitation towards cel-shaded graphics but maybe not exactly there... *is rambling*

That is one of my primary FFVII philosophies on just WHAT FFVII IS and what a remake should aspire to be: An homage to SNES-rpgs, that melds the style of the classic and the modern. Again, just the use of wacky sound effects can go a long way.

That and I cant remember who it was, but Kitase or somebody pretty much stated that they were only interested in making FF games about younger characters

Part 8 in the FFVII Letters series links to this.
"He says his games aren't really for people in their thirties. The JRPG is intended for younger players because the journey of the character leaving the village to conquer the world resonates with them. He's happy to continue serving this audience."

A lot of games these days, and not just FF want to hand everything to you on a plate. They include reams of character information and lengthy cutscenes where everything gets explained ad nauseam. Its like you don't have to work that hard anymore, and for me anyway, it makes for a shallow experience.

There was also a great line in that article it about how richly detailed FFVIIs backdrops are, and even though we can't interact with that, it somehow does a better job at creating a believable world than being able to pick up a perfectly rendered loaf of bread in Oblivion, that looks just like every other loaf of bread

The issue of "how much do you explain" is also one of the biggest problems to tackle in a remake. If you explain too much, like why the characters do this and that, the game may lose part of its wacky charm.

I've thought a lot about this and I honestly can't decide on all occassions. I want to explain this and that detail, but how do I do it without taking away the game's soul?!

I disagree with those who want to have all of Midgar be explorable in a remake. Your isolation from the upper plate helps you relate to the slum people and emphasize how privileged the upper-plate people are. Sure, *show* us some more sectors of Midgar, maybe tell us the quirks of one or the other, but I don't want all of Midgar available to me. I am convinced it would be a detriment to the "magic" of the place. If I get shown all there is, then my mind will go "Oh, that's all there is? ...Well, no reason for me to ponder about this location anymore."

 

[Madame Mayor]

@ages: I thought maybe Cecil was a bit older but FF wiki says he's only in his early 20s except for the sequel which I know nothing about so I'm not sure if he's the main character of that.

 

[Masamune]

It's probably me getting old, but I find it really hard to relate to the characters in FF's these days. I just feel like SE create a bunch of good looking skinny people with exciting hair that are basically designed to get adolescent hearts racing.

I know that crazy hair and skimpy clothing isn't new to FF games, but there used to be more personality. Feels like SE put together FF now like they would put together a manufactured pop band.

Unfortunately, most of what Squenix does these days is ruled by committee thinking. When you've got a creative remit that comes down to 'lol design a female Cloud', what do you expect? (and no the irony of my avatar is not lost on me k).

I wouldn't limit this simply to their physical appearance, either, but also the fact that characters can now leap and bound from skyscrapers and take bullets like Superman. That in itself drains so much tension from the characters' plight and makes their world totally unrelatable to us. A key reason why AC failed as a cinematic experience.

Ironic that the two FFs with the most arresting character development (VII & IX) also had some of the most cartoony looking art design.

 

[Shademp]

I've been wanting to say this for a long time, but I definitely think that a remake of the Honey Bee Inn should take some inspiration from Lee's ending in Tekken 5...

It hurts my eyes, but it's supposed to! Listen to that "boi-oing" sound at 0:09! The painful sight of both Lee and Heihachi in their, umm, "outfits". Heihachi's erratic, comedic motions in 0:43-0:53... This, my friends, is a taste of the modern version of the Honey Bee Inn.

Granted, you can't fully replicate, in English, the atmosphere created by the Japanese tradition of addressing one another as a superior or a subordinate (it just doesn't have the same feel in English), but it can still work. Like I keep obsessing, they better have odd sound effects for when the Honey Bee girls move, like they have in the original game.

 

[Octo]

Fucking hell....that was uncomfortable.....and why do I get the feeling that the implication is that Lee can make Heihachi do anything he wants. @_@

Also, before I saw it was Heihachis ass I thought 'Mukki' lol.

 

[Shademp]

Also, before I saw it was Heihachis ass I thought 'Mukki' lol.

Exactly! You just got a taste of what it would be like to see Mukki in hi-def graphics. Awesomely disturbing.

I wonder what "2 fingers" mean... Anyway, I will not accept a remake that does not use aspects of the unused Honey Bee Inn content. We *need* to see Palmer get a happy ending and chase the Shinra Manager out of the place. We need to see a heart float from one of the Honey Bee mascots to one of the customers, then see him spin mid-air in excitement and fall over. I WILL HAVE IT NO OTHER WAY.

 

[Octo]

Exactly! You just got a taste of what it would be like to see Mukki in hi-def graphics. Awesomely disturbing.

I wonder what "2 fingers" mean... Anyway, I will not accept a remake that does not use aspects of the unused Honey Bee Inn content. We *need* to see Palmer get a happy ending and chase the Shinra Manager out of the place. We need to see a heart float from one of the Honey Bee mascots to one of the customers, then see him spin mid-air in excitement and fall over. I WILL HAVE IT NO OTHER WAY.

On my phone here. Two fingers means the depth of drink in the glass is two fingers width. Thats what I've been told anyway. Though given the underlying homoeroticism there it could mean something else lol

 

[Strangelove]

I wonder what "2 fingers" mean...

When ordering a drink like whiskey, it's basically the same as a double. 'Finger' meaning the amount you pour is the same as the height of a finger.

 

[Cthulhu]

Two fingers up the butt, of course.

 

[looneymoon]

I am a Japanese school teacher

 

[Ryushikaze]

I am a Japanese school teacher

Oh, and the oldest FF hero in their original game is actually Cloud, at 21.
Cecil was 20 in his original game, 37 in the sequel.
Warrior, Firion, and Bartz do not have listed Ages, IIRC, but could have been older than Cloud.

 

[looneymoon]

wait hold up. Ryu is that... you at 0:54????????? rolls over and dies.

also where is aki it can't be a discussion of butts without her.