Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
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- Rosarian Shield
Why the timeframe should hinder it?
SPOILERS Anyone Willing to Admit the Remake Was better then the Original?
- Thread starter clowd
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- Ite
Interesting, and yet most if not all of these industry-changing games we’re talking about are part of franchises already several hits in. Witcher 3, FF 7, Zelda 8, Fromsoftware-dodgey-fight 6, etc. Skyrim is applauded for its open world, but Oblivion’s was bigger and Morrowind’s more imaginative. So can we expect that the industry won’t continue to be shaken by subtle, iterative changes?
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
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Like TW3, a game doesn't necessarily has to be innovative to stand out in the "crowd", but having tons of content and content that is great/amazing quality-wise will do. I agree that it's becoming harder to innovate in general.
LNK
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- Nate
Yes, but the most recent of those games was released in 2015 right? I can't imagine any newer games coming out that would shake up the industry like any of those did. At least not in the way of bringing something brand new to the table, that others want to replicate. Can they pull from what came before, and repackage them? Sure. Unless we start having games where we are controlling live action people, I can't imagine games being much more innovative than where we are now
Leafonthebreeze
Any/All
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I mean, if you look back upthread there's loads of examples people give of new and innovative games that do something different that changes things for the industry, they're just mostly indies or shit like fortnite and among us.
LNK
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I went back and read those. Can you say those games really changed things for the industry though? I'm just speaking from a new innovative way. It's hard for me to say those indie games changed the industry, if larger games aren't copying them
Roundhouse
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I think there is still plenty of room for games to do new things, when you consider (as people point out) how incredibly young the videogame medium really is. FF7 was one of the groundbreaking/pioneer games when it comes to games telling an emotional story, and that came out as late as 1997. That's just over 20 years ago.
To compare to other mediums.,,
Cinema, Citizen Kane came out in 1941. Novels...Jane Austen wrote Emma in 1816. Theatre...Shakespeare and Marlowe and co were producing gems in the Elizabethan era. And so on. Meanwhile, games didn't start to really step up to the table until the 90s, for me. Everyone agrees that the improvements to super realistic visuals are getting smaller all the time, but the more important thing -- art direction and creativity -- still has a lot of room to breathe.
To compare to other mediums.,,
Cinema, Citizen Kane came out in 1941. Novels...Jane Austen wrote Emma in 1816. Theatre...Shakespeare and Marlowe and co were producing gems in the Elizabethan era. And so on. Meanwhile, games didn't start to really step up to the table until the 90s, for me. Everyone agrees that the improvements to super realistic visuals are getting smaller all the time, but the more important thing -- art direction and creativity -- still has a lot of room to breathe.
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- Rishi
LNK
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What new things do you think can be done though? Besides using live action, I can't really imagine videogames doing something new.
To clarify. I can't really imagine videogames doing something new that affects the gaming industry, like the games of old did something new and affected the industry. Hope that makes sense lol.
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- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
VR is the next big frontier but it faces two major hurdles.
Hardware costs (which have thankfully started coming down) and development difficulty.
But once a AAA studio seriously, I mean seriously, delivers a quality game experience that brings out the medium in full, it's probably going to be big.
Like, RE7 is one of the most influential RE games since 4 that really gave the franchise a shot of adrenaline that it sorely needed. It's the BotW of the RE series. And one of the great things it did was really utilize PS VR that made the game extremely immersive and enjoyable.
A game developed from the ground up to take advantage of VR exclusively would be amazing, but its again. Very niche and difficult. We'll see, I suppose
Hardware costs (which have thankfully started coming down) and development difficulty.
But once a AAA studio seriously, I mean seriously, delivers a quality game experience that brings out the medium in full, it's probably going to be big.
Like, RE7 is one of the most influential RE games since 4 that really gave the franchise a shot of adrenaline that it sorely needed. It's the BotW of the RE series. And one of the great things it did was really utilize PS VR that made the game extremely immersive and enjoyable.
A game developed from the ground up to take advantage of VR exclusively would be amazing, but its again. Very niche and difficult. We'll see, I suppose
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- Tets
Make that three. Motion sickness is gonna be a big factor too.
LNK
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But would you consider VR new and innovative? Hasn't it been used in games for decades now?
For me, it's hard to consider RE7 VR innovative and game changing for using VR, if VR has already been used in games for decades.
Self reflection: It seems like I have a very narrow view on what would be new and innovative.
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- Smooth Criminal
It's been "used" but it's adoption has been niche. Very few large scale AAA titles have embraced and developed entirely around the technology. Because it's difficult and at a point of diminishing returns. The same issue that 3D has had since forever.
Like I said, RE7 was able to do utilize it to great effect but it was still not exclusively adopted/developed around full VR.
Something that can do that effectively, affordably and in a way that most people can enjoy it, would be groundbreaking. It'd be something unique and immersive in a way that no one would expect.
Like, think of a full blown FF game or action game able to be fully VR while meeting the graphical standards of today.
Like I said, RE7 was able to do utilize it to great effect but it was still not exclusively adopted/developed around full VR.
Something that can do that effectively, affordably and in a way that most people can enjoy it, would be groundbreaking. It'd be something unique and immersive in a way that no one would expect.
Like, think of a full blown FF game or action game able to be fully VR while meeting the graphical standards of today.
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- Ite
It’s all so very subjective, but so is the thread’s question. Better? Is impactful automatically better? Let’s say yes. When I’m not actively playing it, FF7R doesn’t have a lasting presence in my mind, except for perhaps some lingering bitterness at the bait-and-switch story. On a personal level, the game didn’t make the playoffs for me, but the OG is at least a quarter finalist — talk about impactful!
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- Rishi
PT is the precursor to RE7, and its presence can be felt throughout the horror genre since.
Speaking of impactful games, RE4 in VR made want to puke after 30 seconds
Speaking of impactful games, RE4 in VR made want to puke after 30 seconds
LNK
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While we've been talking of VR, I was imagining if Final Fantasy ever went that route. While it seems like a cool idea, it's not something I would really enjoy. I want to be absolutely lazy when I play videogames. I'd be open to a final fantasy first person though.
Yeah, after a few messages back and forth, I realize how subjective this is. It's why I don't engage sometimes about this stuff.
How come remake didn't have a lasting presence in your mind though? Well, except what you look at as a bait and switch story
Roundhouse
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Remake reminds me of LOST at the moment. It's just fans endlessly debating about all the mysteries that have been set up.
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This 100000%
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- Smooth Criminal
Really don't think people saying that fully appreciate where LOST was and what true untethered speculation and unknowable scripting really looks like.
Because that ain't this at all. There are mysteries.... But just because you have randoms carrying unbridled expectations or theories doesn't mean it's all likely.
Especially when you've got writers openly sharing/saying their intention and direction. That's not "Lost," that's straightforward. Remake has ambiguity but I don't think it's that imperceivable especially when compared to LOST season 3.
Because that ain't this at all. There are mysteries.... But just because you have randoms carrying unbridled expectations or theories doesn't mean it's all likely.
Especially when you've got writers openly sharing/saying their intention and direction. That's not "Lost," that's straightforward. Remake has ambiguity but I don't think it's that imperceivable especially when compared to LOST season 3.
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hleV
Pro Adventurer
For me, the Remake kind of ruins what is gonna come afterwards. OG Midgar events were relatively down-to-earth while in Remake we have destiny-shaping ghosts, Sephiroth everywhere, 18th chapter. It's intriguing what will happen next, but we're too deep into the wtf-fantasy already so I don't expect to be too surprised about how things unfold.
I prefer the OG version of how things went, but Remake as a whole game is more entertaining than just the OG Midgar bit.
I prefer the OG version of how things went, but Remake as a whole game is more entertaining than just the OG Midgar bit.
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- Smooth Criminal
Eh, it was never down to earth, even "relatively." That's some serious historical revisionism right there.
The Singularity was new, surprising and certainly a shift but claiming the group's battles with 5 giant mechas, ghosts, monsters, their encounter with The Thing and fighting their way through a corporate death trap of SOLDIERs and lab specimens as "down to earth" makes those 3 words do some ridiculous heavy lifting.
We merely dove into the deep end of the fantasy of the story two discs earlier than expected. The principles are all still connected and part of the same fantasy narrative regardless of whether we see them now or later. It's still the same story and fantasy, regardless of adaptation choice or changes to transform the work. A curve ball pitch when we expected a straight doesn't change the ball game itself. It's the same sport.
The Singularity was new, surprising and certainly a shift but claiming the group's battles with 5 giant mechas, ghosts, monsters, their encounter with The Thing and fighting their way through a corporate death trap of SOLDIERs and lab specimens as "down to earth" makes those 3 words do some ridiculous heavy lifting.
We merely dove into the deep end of the fantasy of the story two discs earlier than expected. The principles are all still connected and part of the same fantasy narrative regardless of whether we see them now or later. It's still the same story and fantasy, regardless of adaptation choice or changes to transform the work. A curve ball pitch when we expected a straight doesn't change the ball game itself. It's the same sport.
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Ironically I think the Remake was a little more grounded than the OG in the Midgar segment, before cutting the other way hard.
KindOfBlue
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Obviously NFTs are the next step in innovation in the gaming industry.
Memeing aside, I generally avoid “innovation” as a metric of quality unless it’s an expressed goal of the creator. Pretty much everything I consume is derivative of something, so I try not to get too caught up with whether or not something is as innovative or impactful as I expect it to be lest I be perpetually disappointed at everything.
I’m not convinced that the FF7 devs predicted just how impactful the game would be, which to me feels far more genuine than if every emotional beat was so manufactured that it comes across as Oscar-bait (I love TLOU and I even like TLOU2, but for me those games are guilty of this sometimes, even the first one). I know we live in the age of YouTube video essays analyzing and explaining everything but I’m a big proponent of art just existing and speaking for itself.
With so much nostalgia bait and fanservice in the air, I wonder if we’ve been groomed into ascribing value to art based on whether it meets expectations outside of the creator’s intent, which can sometimes be unfair if not tempered realistically. “If it’s not like THIS, it’s sucks.” It’s no wonder we have so many remakes, reboots, sequels etc. in the first place, it’s all just chasing that high we once felt in our youth.
And so, how exactly does one go about making FF7R as impactful as the OG without also recreating the exact conditions that the OG was created in? And if that were possible, why even make a remake in the first place? I’m all for remastering stuff to make it more accessible and even updating visuals to meet modern standards, but the concept of remakes in general is honestly redundant to me.
Naturally, my response to FF7R’s direction was “don’t mind the naysayers, tell the story YOU want.” Isn’t that how we get innovation in the first place, when creators are allowed to do what they want instead of being confined by whatever’s expected of them? Not that I consider FF7R especially impactful or innovative in the grander scheme of gaming, I’m just not so sure it really matters all that much if it isn’t what the OG was in that regard. If I want the OG experience, then I can just…
Memeing aside, I generally avoid “innovation” as a metric of quality unless it’s an expressed goal of the creator. Pretty much everything I consume is derivative of something, so I try not to get too caught up with whether or not something is as innovative or impactful as I expect it to be lest I be perpetually disappointed at everything.
I’m not convinced that the FF7 devs predicted just how impactful the game would be, which to me feels far more genuine than if every emotional beat was so manufactured that it comes across as Oscar-bait (I love TLOU and I even like TLOU2, but for me those games are guilty of this sometimes, even the first one). I know we live in the age of YouTube video essays analyzing and explaining everything but I’m a big proponent of art just existing and speaking for itself.
With so much nostalgia bait and fanservice in the air, I wonder if we’ve been groomed into ascribing value to art based on whether it meets expectations outside of the creator’s intent, which can sometimes be unfair if not tempered realistically. “If it’s not like THIS, it’s sucks.” It’s no wonder we have so many remakes, reboots, sequels etc. in the first place, it’s all just chasing that high we once felt in our youth.
And so, how exactly does one go about making FF7R as impactful as the OG without also recreating the exact conditions that the OG was created in? And if that were possible, why even make a remake in the first place? I’m all for remastering stuff to make it more accessible and even updating visuals to meet modern standards, but the concept of remakes in general is honestly redundant to me.
Naturally, my response to FF7R’s direction was “don’t mind the naysayers, tell the story YOU want.” Isn’t that how we get innovation in the first place, when creators are allowed to do what they want instead of being confined by whatever’s expected of them? Not that I consider FF7R especially impactful or innovative in the grander scheme of gaming, I’m just not so sure it really matters all that much if it isn’t what the OG was in that regard. If I want the OG experience, then I can just…
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