Awards / Shop

[Tetsujin]

How is it a bonus then though if you get these points no matter what?

Meh, in that case, we shouldn't implement it at all.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

This retarded. If posts in General Chat aren't going to be awarded points, you might as well rename it the Spam Section. Remember, these points will be used to to purchase additional features and items. Limiting the points to FF sections, neglects an entire population that only posts in GC, myself included, which is not fair at all. There is a lot of substantial discussion in GC, there's no valid reason the participating members in those discussions should be denied points. I know how certain members feel about spam here, but in fact there's very little spam going on in GC if you look at the discussion value in the section as a whole. If posts in GC are going to be neglected, this hack shouldn't even be implemented at all.

Why do you guys seem to think that just because they're not getting some unquantifiable, silly 'points' for posting, the General Chat section might as well be Spam? Feeling neglected? Are you serious?

That's what's going to cause factionalism, people giving a whole bunch of value to these dumbass points, not anything else.

 

[Alex]

How is it a bonus then though if you get these points no matter what?

Because they won't They'll get them for good discussions and contributions and whatnot. Just these are prone to take place in various parts of the forum, not just the ones you're interested in.

Why do you guys seem to think that just because they're not getting some unquantifiable, silly 'points' for posting, the General Chat section might as well be Spam? Feeling neglected? Are you serious?

I said before, because you're rewarding some sections and not others you're making the distinction between what and who has value and what and who doesn't. Also, the points will be quantifiable, wtf, how else would they be accumulated. Stop using words you don't understand, it makes you look incredibly foolish.

That's what's going to cause factionalism, people giving a whole bunch of value to these dumbass points, not anything else.

Thats because they do have value, as its been suggested these points will be used to purchase stuff from the TLS shop or whatever. What creates factionalism is the shafting of one significant portion of the forum who mainly post in the general section.

 

[Tetsujin]

They'll get them for good discussions and contributions and whatnot.

I may have misunderstood something, but don't you get these points automatically from the system for doing certain things?
Awarding points for good discussions only is something that would have to be judged by a person and I don't know if this is how the points system works.

The tentacle dude probably knows more.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I said before, because you're rewarding some sections and not others you're making the distinction between what and who has value and what and who doesn't. Also, the points will be quantifiable, wtf, how else would they be accumulated. Stop using words you don't understand, it makes you look incredibly foolish.

No I know what quantifiable means, thank you very much, and what I mean by unquantifiable, is that the points don't really mean shit. If someone really wanted to contribute good discussion, and better the forums, they wouldn't give a shit whether they got some 'points' for it or not. I certainly wouldn't, if the situation was reversed.


You know, I witnessed a similar argument before at another forum, where there was a debate between rewarding people who discussed what the forum was about vs. General chat type stuff. One side stated 'Only people that contribute to the main discussion to the site's focus should be rewarded', and the other side was 'What about people that aren't interested in the site's focus?'

Eventually, the owner stepped in and stated 'If someone is going to come to the community and not participate in what the site is about at all, then why are they here?'

 

[Alex]

Ahh I see what you mean now. Went back and reread some of the tentacle's posts. I was under the impression that these rewards were awarded manually. But still the system only rewards the most active and contributive people (which I assume means those who post the longest post, but Idk how this would be measured), which atm would mean that Mumble would be getting rewarded much more often than he deserves

 

[Alex]

No I know what quantifiable means, thank you very much, and what I mean by unquantifiable, is that the points don't really mean shit

That isn't what unquantifiable means though, unquantifiable means that the data will be unable to be counted in a manner in which shows the accumulated quantity. Which it evidently will be.

Sure they might just be a novelty, but that doesn't mean no value will be assigned to them. Because they will have value in the way that Yop has suggested you can use the points for frippery from the TLS shop.

PROTIP: If you couldn't think of an appropriately big word then there's no shame in just saying 'worthless' because that's obviously what you were trying to say. People will probably take you more seriously because you aren't trying (and failing) to go over their heads with words you don't really understand.

If someone really wanted to contribute good discussion, and better the forums, they wouldn't give a shit whether they got some 'points' for it or not. I certainly wouldn't, if the situation was reversed.

I don't see you contributing to a whole lot of discussion on the forum anyway so I'm not sure your opinion has any value.

That said, I'm fairly sure the obvious favouritism shown to a certain section of the forum would be more of a point of contention than the assignment of points. I know thats why this whole thing is bugging me.

Eventually, the owner stepped in and stated 'If someone is going to come to the community and not participate in what the site is about at all, then why are they here?'

The owner is clearly a fucking idiot. There's loads of good reasons for people to log on to a forum and stick around it, the atmosphere, friends, etc. The fact they might just enjoy posting around in that particular forum because of the two previous factors alone would be reason enough.

 

[Cthulhu]

I may have misunderstood something, but don't you get these points automatically from the system for doing certain things?
Awarding points for good discussions only is something that would have to be judged by a person and I don't know if this is how the points system works.

The tentacle dude probably knows more.

Thus speaks Dead Cthulhu, He who Lieth Dead but Ever Dreameth, Lord of Dreams, whose Secret Name is knoweth by the Deep Ones, whose Lair is knoweth to the Hydra, whose Accursed Bonds shall be broken by Dagon, and whose Kingdom shall rise once more: The system works largely automagic, awarding a set amount of posts for each post, making no distinction about content or whatever.

But one point to remember: The system does not award points for posts alone, but also for threads, thread replies, thread views, poll votes, reputation (if enabled), social group activity, profile activity (filling in the profile fields, uploading some stuff to albums, etc), donating (with a donator hack installed), moderator actions, and a fuckload more measurements. So posts or activity in a certain section do not constitute all posts - off course, they warrant a large percentage, but still.

But yeah, part of the rewards can be awarded manually - through reputation, which would require us to enable the rep system with all the (largely negative) consequences (if past experiences are any good measure), and through another hack that basically allows you to say 'thank you' to a member by clicking a button of sorts, for helpful posts.

But yar, I get the feeling I'm repeating myself here.

Also:

'If someone is going to come to the community and not participate in what the site is about at all, then why are they here?'

He obviously didn't grasp that the social aspect - expressed in Everything Besides On-Topic Posts in On-Topic Sections - is quite likely the biggest motivation why people return. Please smack me in the face if I ever make such a 'tarded and tunnel-visioned statement, kthx.

Now that I consider my own statement, I'd actually be okay with it if people get awarded for posts in GC. Just as long as the spammyness would be reduced a bit from what it is now, few-word posts and whatnot.

Finally, pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicavolcanoconiosis.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

That isn't what unquantifiable means though, unquantifiable means that the data will be unable to be counted in a manner in which shows the accumulated quantity. Which it evidently will be.

Sure they might just be a novelty, but that doesn't mean no value will be assigned to them. Because they will have value in the way that Yop has suggested you can use the points for frippery from the TLS shop.

PROTIP: If you couldn't think of an appropriately big word then there's no shame in just saying 'worthless' because that's obviously what you were trying to say. People will probably take you more seriously because you aren't trying (and failing) to go over their heads with words you don't really understand.

No like I said I know what unquantifiable means. I meant it's unquantifiable relative to you know, actually important things. Not unquantifiable overall. I guess you missed the point, which is my fault because of the word I used. But I know what unquantifiable means, thanks.

Once again, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The owner is clearly a fucking idiot. There's loads of good reasons for people to log on to a forum and stick around it, the atmosphere, friends, etc. The fact they might just enjoy posting around in that particular forum because of the two previous factors alone would be reason enough.

He obviously didn't grasp that the social aspect - expressed in Everything Besides On-Topic Posts in On-Topic Sections - is quite likely the biggest motivation why people return. Please smack me in the face if I ever make such a 'tarded and tunnel-visioned statement, kthx.

Said owner's logic (and no, he wasn't me), was that if you're not contributing to the overall focus of the site, you're dead weight and you can take your non related discussion elsewhere.

I don't see you contributing to a whole lot of discussion on the forum anyway so I'm not sure your opinion has any value.

So now my opinion doesn't have any value. Wow, fuck this. THIS is elitism, right here.

 

[Username]

Well i think there are some good ideas here. I like the fact points won't just be rewarded for posts alone, thats a really good thing imo.

And like pixel said pages back before this waffle (haven't read it ),
Something different apart from just plushies would be nice, mabey a whole new idea completly.

Anyway i think points should be awarded for posts in every section, it just feels better.
But mabey some kind of 'rate thread' system can be part of the points system where people can rate how good they think the thread is based on various reasons, this would proberly only work for the graphics section, and should only be positive ratings not negative, cos thats unfair

 

[Cthulhu]

A rating for threads can only be a set of stars (1 to 5), and should already be possible right now. Dunno if anything below three stars should be considered 'negative', but I don't think it really matters much for threads, also considering nobody actually uses the system.

 

[Channy]

Like I said in the first post, they would be twofold: First, one would get an 'award' for getting the most points in a certain category (activity, social group memberships / posts, staff actions, but also thread necrophilia and donations), or a combination of categories (for example most active in both forums and social groups, or whichever arbitrary combination you can think of). This would display that user on some screen and display an image in his profile or postbit, instantly awarding him for something he did (or making him look like an idiot, for that matter).

This confused me. Then again you're using the word award instead of reward points. :/ Awards makes me think of old ACF awards done once a year an such. And with the way you phrased that, I'm interested/confused in the process of which these points/awards are done.

Awards (imo) makes it sound much more important than just points. Points makes it sound like it'll happen several times over the course of a few days, weeks, whatever. Award makes it sound like it'll happen rarely, and you REALLY need to put yourself out there for one.

Second, points (also in any category) can be spent on forum items, initially just a set of imagery to be put in one's profile (think plushies) but, if possible, also certain bits of advanced functionality, such as colored user titles and what-have-you.

So again... are we getting points, awards, or both?

This retarded. If posts in General Chat aren't going to be awarded points, you might as well rename it the Spam Section. Remember, these points will be used to to purchase additional features and items. Limiting the points to FF sections, neglects an entire population that only posts in GC, myself included, which is not fair at all. There is a lot of substantial discussion in GC, there's no valid reason the participating members in those discussions should be denied points. I know how certain members feel about spam here, but in fact there's very little spam going on in GC if you look at the discussion value in the section as a whole. If posts in GC are going to be neglected, this hack shouldn't even be implemented at all.

That. GC has a lot of interesting threads and posts that aren't at all spammy. (This is ofc that you aren't looking at Chit Chat and member discussion ) To penalize them because it's one of the few non-FF sub forums just... sucks.

Why do you guys seem to think that just because they're not getting some unquantifiable, silly 'points' for posting, the General Chat section might as well be Spam? Feeling neglected? Are you serious? That's what's going to cause factionalism, people giving a whole bunch of value to these dumbass points, not anything else.

...this.

 

[Cthulhu]

This confused me. Then again you're using the word award instead of reward points.

That's because they are two separate entities: you get reward points for doing stuff, and awards for having the most reward points. Basically.

So again... are we getting points, awards, or both?

Neither, if this thread keeps up in the direction it's going, . But I'm personally quite in favor of points and awards as a means of rating people's activity, and thus give a bit of immaterial appreciation of one's activity. Dunno about the shop though, or well, not the shop itself, but the means of awarding points - see previous page.

 

[Alex]

No like I said I know what unquantifiable means. I meant it's unquantifiable relative to you know, actually important things. Not unquantifiable overall. I guess you missed the point, which is my fault because of the word I used. But I know what unquantifiable means, thanks.

No, I got the point of what you said. But what you said and what you intended to say meant that I missed the point you were trying (and again failing) to communicate. So I can guess we can agree on that.

Said owner's logic (and no, he wasn't me), was that if you're not contributing to the overall focus of the site, you're dead weight and you can take your non related discussion elsewhere.

What an ugly policy. I can't think of anything worse for the promotion of a friendly, active forum than that line of thinking.

So now my opinion doesn't have any value. Wow, fuck this. THIS is elitism, right here.

It's just that I'm not sure it's relevant what you personally 'would' or 'would not' contribute to the forum if the reward scheme was in place seeing as how I haven't seen you contributing very much in the first place. If opinions based on observations make me elitist then badass, go cry moar.

And like pixel said pages back before this waffle (haven't read it ),

I don't blame you dear it's discussing words and grammar and things that usually go well over your head.

Complaining aside, I do still like the idea of the whole rewards system.

I don't think I'd actually said that yet

 

[Cthulhu]

What an ugly policy. I can't think of anything worse for the promotion of a friendly, active forum than that line of thinking.

I can think of quite a few, actually, .

Complaining aside, I do still like the idea of the whole rewards system.

Indeed, and I'm pretty sure everyone does. The problem in this case is how and where to award people, or to be more precise, how much.

Not that it matters much in the short term, considering it's either on or off on a per-section basis.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

If opinions based on observations make me elitist then badass, go cry moar.

This isn't an attack on you personally, but I find it hard to take an argument seriously when people add comments like that in their posts. Like I said, no offense intended, you're a smart guy, but smarmy comments don't help an argument.

 

[sheens]

I think everyone should get fair points then the people who don't like spam can be all srs and the people who do can continue to not give a crap.

Or just don't do award system at all.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Or just don't do award system at all.

Based on the amount of borderline flaming over disagreements about this idea which I've seen coming from staff and non-staff alike, I'm going to have to agree with this. People are going to take it moar seriosly than it's worth.

 

[Masamune]

Ashes, treat people how you wish to be treated. You moan about patronizing, then treat some people in the same way.

 

[Ⓐaron]

I get the impression that he was doing it as a form of turnabout, but that said it wasn't all that helpful to his point

 

[Cthulhu]

Or just don't do award system at all.

This, . If we can't get an agreement on what gets awarded, we'll just not implement the system. Or put up a poll, 'points for activity in GC yea or nay' and go with that, .

But even with that, I get the feeling that there will always be people that feel like they're treated unjustly in the distributing of points, so adding this system might just as well provoke endless discussions about the matter, arguments, etcetera.

It worked pretty good on ACF though, where it was linked to posts in postcount sections.

 

[Ⓐaron]

Just disable it for specific threads with zero discussion value like chitchat and the photo thread. Problem solved imo.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I honestly don't think it should be implemented at all.

 

[Channy]

I honestly don't think it should be implemented at all.

Same

 

[Alex]

Ashes, treat people how you wish to be treated. You moan about patronizing, then treat some people in the same way.

Why? The world doesn't work like that and neither does the internet. Sorry if my attitudes been rubbing people the wrong way, I've not been doing well today.

I'd still like to see us having a go at making this reward system a possibility. But if just deciding on the parameters of it is going to be such a big issue then I suppose nothing of value would be lost.