Bayonetta

Lulcielid

Lulcielid

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Lulcy
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581289084718227456

Hellena Taylor (original VA for Bayonetta) reveals that she didn't return in her role for Bayonetta 3 because she was only offered $4,000 for the whole game and is asking people to boycott the game and instead donate to charity.

To clarify, this is the best offer she could negotiate to reprise her role for Bayonetta 3.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
Wow, what the fuck did he say to get suspended?? LMAO did anyone screenshot?

And yeah, this is a pretty nasty shitshow. The fact such a memorable and popular VA for such an iconic character got shafted this badly is embarrassing. The video game industry is due for a reckoning at this point, in terms of voice actor treatment. This is horrible and I'm honestly put off. Who knows when I'll get to Bayonetta 3 at this point, but I'm in no rush now.

Just, unbelievable. That's incredibly shitty to pay a VA talent a mere 4k and that's it. Like, what the actual fuck?
 
looneymoon

looneymoon

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Rishi
it honestly makes me wonder how they're treating their development staff/technical workers :/ Voice actors are much more high profile employees comparatively. I feel like it takes a lot of audacity to stiff the acting talent, and that likely points to more issues in the workplace.
 
looneymoon

looneymoon

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Rishi
I've been reading that it's pretty common for Japanese company's to do stuff like this to get you to quit rather than fire you. I mean, obviously that is something Western employers do as well, but I guess the difference is that there's that whole saving face aspect that exists in Eastern cultures.

Which I don't think Platinum/Nintendo should be given a pass for at all, mind you.

Like, ok even if you take that into account... If you're a multi million international corporation. Billions if we are talking about Nintendo. You can absolutely afford to do what you need to in order bridge the communication gap to not utterly demean your foreign employee.

It just makes me so mad. It's hard for me not to pay too much attention to how Hellena may have reacted poorly to this because she's absolutely right. Shit like not talking about wages openly is a huge reason why people in these fields are so often exploited and completely unable to collectively bargain. Not to mention the fact that she'll be likely blacklisted for this move, so good on her. No wonder she made such a beloved Bayonetta :awesome:

edit: For her sake I hope she chills a bit, mostly because after writing this I am hoping that she can carve out a lane to least spin the situation in her favour :/

Also Kamiya's image as the charmingly abrasive video game man had a lot to do with that one Nick Robinson video. That did a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to free PR. I hadnt really known about his twitter prior to watching that. This situation kinda makes it grossly clear that this is some Musk-esque twitter shit where an edgelord business guy is upheld by a weird following of annoying weebs.
 
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Strangelove

Strangelove

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i am usually one for thinking certain careers that are known to be high paying ought to be paid less for fairness (spread that money around to the less well paid workers), but i can see a reason in some cases like actors. still don’t think anyone needs to be paid $12mil for a single job and big stars are pushing it, but there’s factors where getting paid what seems like a lot makes sense. e.g. actors often have to travel to locations away from home, sometimes quite far flung ones, and stay there for several weeks; you’re not getting paid for the audition process and might not get steady work. so getting paid a high fee per job is fair imo

voice actors, it’s a little different. there isn’t necessarily the need to travel and i think some voice actors have recording equipment at home. but the other points still stand. unless you’re goddamn chris pratt or something no one is just handing you roles, and you have to deal with generally low pay. you’re probably losing roles to big name actors getting paid way more than you. some people will underestimate it as an easy job, just sit in front of a mic and talk, but look at some of the terrible celeb performances from people who can act.

i don’t know if japan has like, an actual union or something because i don’t hear this about actors there? the only example i can think of right now is 1) the original actor for vaan in ff12 not being used for dissidia (he was pretty rough in ff12 but he was new; but tidus in ff10 was masakazu morita’s debut role which lacks a bit of polish and he’s grown now); 2) vamp in metal gear solid, who went from voice actor ryoutaro okiayu in mgs2 to film director shinya tsukamoto, but i think hideo kojima wanted tsukamoto all along but he wasn’t available for mgs2 so it’s not quite the same maybe

there used to be this notion online that kojima preferred/cared more about the english cast of metal gear, but whereas the japanese cast is full of consistent actors who have worked with kojima for years (some even before metal gear), they unceremoniously ditched david hayter for kiefer sutherland who then did hardly anything lol

maybe these japanese studios have less respect for western talent than their native ones. although they still don’t get paid astronomical amounts or anything and to make a living you are going to have to be constantly auditioning

i would have played bayo3 in japanese first because i like atsuko tanaka, but i still have a soft spot for the english since it is the ‘original’. after playing the second game in japanese i went through it again with the english audio. it sucks that they’ve treated her like this. it reminds me about how the actor for the main character in grand theft auto 4(iirc?) only got a relatively small sum for a game that went on to make hundreds of millions. or what they did to the cast for silent hill 2/3 for the hd collection, who i think mentioned that they don’t receive compensation for rereleases using their work.

also now thinking about how at disney/marvel they’re making a new daredevil series with the actor (and crew?) from the netflix version. but they are classing it as a new production so it resets any accrued contract benefits for shows that run multiple season (like getting paid more). i don’t know what contracts for voice actors are like but i do wonder if there might have been some clause in there about getting a raise after a certain number of entries
 
JBedford

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This... just seems like they didn't want to work with Taylor for whatever reason (whether they just fancied the popular Hale or just didn't want Taylor) and so made her an offer she couldn't not refuse.

I don't play Bayonetta, but I was annoyed when I heard they replaced Taylor, as I am with most voice actors replacements. And the "overlapping circumstances" was obvious bullshit. I'll never once accept the "scheduling conflict" excuse for things that aren't broadcast on a schedule (e.g. simuldubs).

Understandably when voice actors with strong affinities to roles don't reprise their role, they often end up posting something angry on social media that glosses over important details or is otherwise embarassing. But Taylor just commit VA suicide. I know she's not primarily a voice actor, but that's how not to ever be one.
 
Lulcielid

Lulcielid

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Lulcy
Bloomberg: A Tense Pay Dispute Overshadows Nintendo’s Upcoming Bayonetta 3

By
Jason Schreier

A pay dispute between the creator of a critically acclaimed video game series and its star voice actor reignited a long-simmering debate over wages in the industry. As is often the case in these sorts of disagreements, the details surrounding negotiations and casting for the upcoming game, Bayonetta 3, are more complicated than what has been portrayed publicly.

The feud spilled out into the open over the weekend, when Hellena Taylor, the star of the first two Bayonetta games, said she would not appear in the next iteration, set to be released for the Nintendo Switch on Oct. 28. She posted a series of videos Saturday on Twitter, accusing Nintendo Co. and the game’s developer, Platinum Games, of offering her a total of $4,000 to reprise her role. She said she rejected the lowball offer and asked fans to refrain from buying the game. “If you’re someone who cares about people, who cares about the world around you, who cares about who gets hurt with these financial decisions, then I urge you to boycott this game,” Taylor said in one of the videos.

The videos went viral, racking up more than 9.5 million views on Twitter. Taylor’s story touched a nerve among gamers. Voice actors are beloved by fans but fail to command anywhere close to what a Hollywood actor makes. Game actors have long complained of being underpaid and under-appreciated. Some have said they receive little information about their roles until they show up in the recording booth. The industry operates in such clandestine ways that actors sometimes won’t even know what game they’re recording lines for until it’s released.

The tensions last crested during contract negotiations in 2016 when the union representing many voice actors, the Screen Actors Guild - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, orchestrated a strike that lasted nearly a year. One of the sticking points was residuals, meaning compensation for actors when sales of a game outperform expectations. Voice actors gave up that fight in exchange for receiving bonuses based on the number of sessions they work.

In the case of Bayonetta 3, the developer appeared to be determined to rehire Taylor, according to two people familiar with the negotiations as well as documentation reviewed by Bloomberg. Here’s where their accounts differ: Platinum Games sought to hire Taylor for at least five sessions, each paying $3,000 to $4,000 for four hours in the studio, said the people, who asked not to be identified because they aren’t authorized to discuss private contract negotiations. That would make the total for the game at least $15,000. In response, they said, Taylor asked for a six-figure sum as well as residuals on the game. Platinum declined and, following lengthy negotiations, took auditions for a new actor. Platinum later offered Taylor a cameo in the game for the fee of one session, which she turned down, the people said.

In an email, Taylor described this account as “an absolute lie” and said Platinum was “trying to save their ass and the game.” She said she stood by everything she said in the video. “I would like to put this whole bloody franchise behind me quite frankly get on with my life in the theatre,” she wrote. Representatives for Platinum Games and Nintendo didn’t respond to requests for comment. Hideki Kamiya, the executive director of Bayonetta 3, called Taylor’s allegations “sad and deplorable” in a Twitter post.

Regardless, Taylor’s comments resonated widely, dominating headlines on gaming websites and even gracing the digital pages of TMZ. Several of Taylor’s peers spoke out after her videos. Bryan Dechart, who acted in Cyberpunk 2077 and Red Dead Redemption II, said he was offered $4,000 to work on a nonunion project for a big-budget game. Sean Chiplock, who voiced three characters in the Nintendo blockbuster the Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, said he was paid about $3,000 for that job.

The Bayonetta series is beloved by fans and critics but has never been a big commercial success. The Nintendo Switch version of Bayonetta 2, released in 2018, has sold just over a million copies, far fewer than many of Nintendo’s other offerings. For Bayonetta 3, the acting costs were higher than other projects because the studio relied on union performers, said three people familiar with the game’s production, which meant a minimum of about $900 for a four-hour voice session plus bonuses. Prominent actors or franchise stars like Taylor usually make more.

In her videos, Taylor mentioned Jennifer Hale, the prolific voice actor who took over the role of Bayonetta in the new game. “I wish her all the joy in the world, I wish her all the jobs, but she has no right to say she is the voice of Bayonetta,” Taylor said. “I created that voice. She has no right to sign merchandise as Bayonetta.”

Hale faced some vicious online harassment as a result. She wrote Monday on Twitter that she had signed a non-disclosure agreement and couldn’t elaborate on the situation. “I sincerely ask that everyone keep in mind that this game has been created by an entire team of hard-working, dedicated people, and I hope everyone will keep an eye open about what they’ve created,” she wrote. A few hours later, she retweeted a Twitter thread from another voice actor saying, “If you only hear one side (or part of one side) of a story, you haven't heard the whole story.”
Click to expand...
 
Lulcielid

Lulcielid

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Lulcy
People are now immediately jumping to say Hellena lied and is wrong and we should trust Platinum, and I'm not sure why that's the reasonable stance.

1) Why should I immediately trust the word of a corporation?
2) Even if this story is true, why is Hellena wrong to ask for this?

Like honestly flat out that first one is a big sticking point to me.
 
ForceStealer

ForceStealer

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Sure...but from the start it struck me as a little strange that the argument was a company was trying to cheap out by signing probably the biggest voice actress.
 
looneymoon

looneymoon

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Rishi
I'm willing to trust that it was likely 3k-4k per session because that sounds a hell of a lot more reasonable than as the full wage. But am I crazy or does $20k still feel low for the star of a AAA budget game??? Idk.

I guess it just kinda sucks to be a voice actor.

I guess Platinum is pretty infamous for churning out good games for cheap tho, so I guess it's not too much of a surprise. I know they make a lot of stinkers, but I do want the Bayo and Nier franchises to thrive. It sucks. I hope that this controversy scares them into managing their shit better but I'm not holding out hope.
 
cold_spirit

cold_spirit

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Alex T
Lulcielid said:
1) Why should I immediately trust the word of a corporation?
Click to expand...

This isn't coming from a corporation. In a follow-up tweet, Jason Schreier said he has "not heard anything from Platinum Games, its executives, or its PR people." This info is coming from "two people familiar with the negotiations as well as documentation reviewed by Bloomberg." Likely third-party employees hired by Platinum Games. VGC even collaborated on the story, further validating its claims.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582453689679499264

Additionally, Jennifer Hale hasn't exactly been discrete in implying that there's more to this story than Hellena Taylor's version. It's great to reopen the conversation are how poorly voice actors are compensated and treated, but something does appear to be amiss with the situation.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582174914597249024
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

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Smooth Criminal
There's definitely more to the story which the article does a great job shining a light on.

Low pay in the voice acting scene is a very real issue. And I can understand Hellena wanting a bigger chunk given her noteworthy performance and Bayonetta's popularity. Shitty politics aside, she's still labor and voice talent. She's trying to get herself the best deal possible.

I can certainly see her embellishing what happened due to failure to get a better rate for herself. The article makes it clear how it all went to shit, and it sounds believable and is sourced. So yeah. It's not just corporate PR, this is just... The whole story. It sucks but it definitely speaks to the reality that in the end, voice talent is finding their value and trying to get their labor rights respected. Even if she she exaggerated what happened, I think this is an important conversation.

And let's be real. The Bayonetta franchise isn't sinking over this, anyways. This game is gonna still sell millions but it's pretty certain from this point on, Jennifer Hale is the new voice for her from now on.
 
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