Character Battle QF1: Cloud vs Celes

[Flintlock]

I had the idea of making trading cards for the remaining characters in this competition. It turned out to be a bit more work than I anticipated. This image took around two hours, so hopefully you won't mind if I let it do the talking.

Who is your favourite of these two characters? Please give an explanation in a post after you vote.

 

[Fangu]

OMG those cards are just amazing!!! I WANT THE FULL SET!!

 

[Tifabelle]

wow, nice graphics!

not...sure...who to vote for....errrr

 

[Lex]

I voted for Cloud because I love the fact that he's fucked up and completely unlikeable. Then you do the lifestream sequence and realise he's always been a self-conscious loner who just wants to be noticed... *sniff* and then he kicks Sephi's butt, then he's locked in a tube for years, then he gets out... then he has to find himself again and start from scratch. CLOUD IS AWESOME!

 

[wander]

Celes. Not a bitch despite having a shitty life. Okay, still a little on the neurotic side, but she also happens to be a strong magic user--only Terra is more useful really.

 

[Celes Chere]

KICK HIS ASS, CELES

I voted for her because I feel like she is one of the strongest female characters in the history of the FF series, she has an amazing personality, her morals are ones that I agree with, the way she goes around the ruined earth and saves everyone's god damned life is remarkable, and her point of breaking//rising up again is the best.

Not to mention her scenes in the Opera part of the game are simply breath taking. She's always left a strong impression on me of course, Cloud doesn't even come close sorry.

also kick ass cards, dude

 

[wander]

and just look at Cloud, he doesn't even have a Job and he spends half the game pretending to be someone else so he can dodge the taxman. Fucking wastrel.

 

[penandpaper]

Those cards are beautiful.

And... this is probably the hardest round for me because I actually do really like both Celes and Cloud, but of the two characters, Cloud left more of an impression on me, so... I'm sorry Celes.

Anyway, I love Cloud's story, but even more then that, I love how realistic his character feels in terms of his development. His reactions and motivations over the course of it all are part of what, in my opinion, make him so great. The way that he manages to come to terms with who he is and all he's been through in his life makes him a very compelling character.

So, yay Cloud!

 

[Dana Scully]

No contest for me, Celes all the way. I love Cloud, but he never left the impression on me that Celes did.

 

[Ghost X]

Cloud, only because he had more disk space for character development .

 

[Unlucky]

What? Cloud and Celes with equal votes? Time to ruin the balance

Click

 

[Tennyo]

Those are some nice looking cards, Flint.

 

[Captain Jack Harkness]

sadly i didn't played VI (

) so i vote for the cloud

 

[ForceStealer]

Ugh...my favorite protagonist and my favorite female character...I don't like this decision one bit!

I love the cards though

 

[AvecAloes]

Flint, dude, awesome cards!

I feel like this decision would have been much harder for me if it had come to me a couple of weeks from now, when I have (presumably) beaten VI.

 

[Rapunzel]

Sorry, Cloud. I love you, but no one can really compare to Celes.

Obviously it goes without saying that I voted for Celes. I think she is such a strong character, with everything she went through, and she developed so much during the game. I love every aspect of her character. Not to mention she has one of the best scenes out of the entire series, the Opera.

Cloud is a great character, too, but he didn't leave the impression on me that Celes did. So glad it didn't come down to Aerith vs Celes, or worse Locke vs Celes. That would be evil.

and, those cards are awesome!^^

 

[Roger]

Well I went with Cloud.

Celes is one of the best characters no doubt, her rescue, the three conversations she has with Cyan, Edgar and Terra, Opera, dealing with Setzer, her actions on the Floating Continent, start of the World of Ruin, she has many many great scenes. The Crescent Island part was pretty weak for her, being mute and being shown in fallen to her knees animation quite a bit, but other then that, she was an awesome main character.

But I like Cloud better. We see him at every stage of his life starting from age of 7, his character arc takes you every which way, the fact that it was originally intended for him to really not be the real Cloud and be Sephiroth's shadow helped perhaps, cause they pulled no punches in breaking down the trust in his character before building it back up.

After everything that happened, Sephiroth being set up as this unstoppable force, taking Cloud from SOLDIER first Class to a nobody that serves as Sephiroth's puppet, the scene where it turns out he really did save the day, save Tifa and Zack and defeat Sephiroth all those years ago is perhaps the best scene ever for me.

Advent Children damaged his character, but coupled with On the Way To A Smile, it helped to make him more of real character with real problems. He was happy, he moved on with his life, was supportive to Tifa, co-partnered starting a business, then started another, that let's him utilise his fondness of motorcycles, then he was asked to visit a fallen loved ones grave, he got the responsiblity of this inevitably dying child thrist upon him, and try as he might to find a cure, there isn't one and then he started dying too. All this was too much for him until Tifa, Aerith, Marlene and Vincent helped him.

The only real mark I have against him is how Advent Children Complete changed his scene before defeating Sephiroth.

Sephiroth: Tell me what you cherish most.
Cloud: There isn't a thing I don't cherish Zack and as Zack's living legacy, there isn't a thing I don't cherish.

I know SE loves Zack, and they admitted to seeing him as the perfect man, but that took it to far for me.

 

[Tifabelle]

Sephiroth: Tell me what you cherish most.
Cloud: There isn't a thing I don't cherish Zack and as Zack's living legacy, there isn't a thing I don't cherish.

I know SE loves Zack, and they admitted to seeing him as the perfect man, but that took it to far for me.

hmm, I guess I never really saw it that way. I mean, to me, it was obvious they just wanted to give Zack more screentime (or more bro-time). And I don't really feel like it was just to highlight that Cloud's only purpose is to be Zack's living legacy. Even in AC, Cloud talks about how he promised to live for both of them at the beginning of the film. Zack's words to him were important, and Zack just reminded him of it. Zack was his mentor, and I think he always will be.

 

[Celes Chere]

Ugh...my favorite protagonist and my favorite female character...I don't like this decision one bit!

Don't lie you chose Cloud in a heart beat

also 15 people are making bad life choices!

 

[Roger]

hmm, I guess I never really saw it that way. I mean, to me, it was obvious they just wanted to give Zack more screentime (or more bro-time). And I don't really feel like it was just to highlight that Cloud's only purpose is to be Zack's living legacy.

Not only purpose, but in a scene that was about everyone, they blatnatly changed in to Cloud drawing strength from Zack's presence.

Zack was his mentor, and I think he always will be.

Zack has only been portrayed as his mentor in The Maiden That Travelled The Planet.

 

[Tifabelle]

Not only purpose, but in a scene that was about everyone, they blatnatly changed in to Cloud drawing strength from Zack's presence.

well... Zack reminded Cloud of his own strength, I guess. And they still show everyone's picture in his mind. I mean, I'll admit it's sort of odd how it happens... like he's talking to him while Sephiroth's flying around. But him showing up and inspiring Cloud didn't bother me.

Zack has only been portrayed as his mentor in The Maiden That Travelled The Planet.

>__> Well he was in Crisis Core too. If you don't like the word "mentor", Cloud always aspired to be like Zack, regardless of Zack's own views on the matter. Even in FFVII.

 

[Roger]

well... Zack reminded Cloud of his own strength, I guess. And they still show everyone's picture in his mind.

I mean, I'll admit it's sort of odd how it happens... like he's talking to him while Sephiroth's flying around. But him showing up and inspiring Cloud didn't bother me.

The showing up and inspiring him part ain't the problem.

Sephiroth asking him what's important, him shifting through his memories... and then arriving at and saying "Zack", is what bothers me, as well as doing away with what used to be what inspired him.

>__> Well he was in Crisis Core too. If you don't like the word "mentor", Cloud always aspired to be like Zack, regardless of Zack's own views on the matter. Even in FFVII.

Cloud wanted to be a SOLDIER First Class, Zack was a SOLDIER First Class and became his friend. That does not equal mentor, or that Cloud wanted to be anything specific to Zack.

Given that when Cloud copied Zack's personality, absolutely nothing of Zack's personality made it through the process save a fondness of Motorcycles and a handful of poses, it's clear that despite Sephiroth himself doing what he did, Zack, great as he was, was still as far from Cloud's image of what SOLDIER First Class should be like as possible.

 

[penandpaper]

The showing up and inspiring him part ain't the problem.

Sephiroth asking him what's important, him shifting through his memories... and then arriving at and saying "Zack", is what bothers me, as well as doing away with what used to be what inspired him.

I'm sorry to but in, but I just thought to add my two cents if you don't mind.

I read that scene quite differently to be honest. He doesn't seem to be just shifting through his memories because then I doubt they'd be as focused as they are. He's thinking of what's important to him and, yes, I'd have expected Zack to make the list at the very least. But, more then that, since the list begins with Aerith who has been defined as the symbol of his failing to protect those important to him (Unless I'm remembering that incorrectly) that the list was focused on all those he cared for that he was failing. If Sephiroth won then he'd have failed Tifa, Denzel, Marlene, and Zack as well who he'd promised to live for (and for whom he already expressed feeling as though he'd failed). Zack pops up then to inspire him and to remind him that he hadn't failed. Not yet anyway and that he shouldn't give up.

But then that was my interpretation and it's probably totally wrong so whatever.

I don't think though that just because he gets an exchange with Zack in that sequence means that Zack is all that's important to him because the others wouldn't have been there then. Those didn't seem to be implied to be random flashes, but a response to Sephiroth's question. But, not to undermine the issue, Zack is also important to Cloud and always will be. That's not something that I'd have liked to see sidelined.

Cloud wanted to be a SOLDIER First Class, Zack was a SOLDIER First Class and became his friend. That does not equal mentor, or that Cloud wanted to be anything specific to Zack.

Given that when Cloud copied Zack's personality, absolutely nothing of Zack's personality made it through the process save a fondness of Motorcycles and a handful of poses, it's clear that despite Sephiroth himself doing what he did, Zack, great as he was, was still as far from Cloud's image of what SOLDIER First Class should be like as possible.

I'm not sure that Zack would technically be considered Cloud's mentor, but he's certainly a very precious friend. Given Cloud's past, Zack may have been one of his first friends and Cloud does seem to give Zack's words a lot of weight, so he takes heart at his friend's encouragement, ready to do what he needed to do to stop Sephiroth.

 

[ForceStealer]

I thought Cloud said Zack because Zack started talking to him, rather than Cloud answering Sephiroth's question.

 

[penandpaper]

I thought Cloud said Zack because Zack started talking to him, rather than Cloud answering Sephiroth's question.

Ah, I misread the original post. Yeah, actually saying Zack's name only happens after Zack starts talking to him as I recall, after the look at shock as he recognizes the voice unless I'm remembering it incorrectly. Actually saying Zack's name doesn't seem to have been an intended answer to Sephiroth's question, but an acknowledgement of his friend's presence. At least I'd assumed.

Thank you for pointing that out.