Chit Chat Thread 2.0

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A

Great Old One
I'm drinking lots of water, getting... not much sleep but that's always been me, so yeah, I have to get that checked. Two days ago was the worst because I was sweating and cold at the same time, the room was blurry, and I felt like I was going to throw up. And YOU, that is one EPIC video.

Also, Aaron, see edited post. ^ :monster:

EDIT:

CA~~~~
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
If they further the interests of the populace, wouldn't that mean they would have to actually act on it though?
Not really, they can just make symbolic concessions and the media will report as though they're doing real change.

I recall that's been done to another election... I think it was Abraham against I forget who?
Probably.

He's African American, and there are so many racist bastards here I can't even make up a number of it. He's already in danger of getting asassinated, much more than just the usual president. And it's not necessarily a bad thing if he takes steps towards the ending of the war in Iraq, so wouldn't that mean he DOES potray as a dove because he's helped America with this huge screw up? Are you saying that if he did something bad after that it wouldn't affect his reputation because of what's already been done?
Probably yeah. He didn't really run as a dove; he always emphasized that he would be intensifying combat operations in Afghanistan and a substantial of the 18-35 bloc that voted for him had strong anti-war sentiments but it's noteworthy that Obama fell behind in polls after the RNC until the worst part of the recession started. Effectively he was elected as a result of the economy. But yeah, according to the media he's decreased the military budget (he's actually increased it by about 4%) and he's a huge pacifist because he's willing to sit down and talk with countries like Iran and Cuba (which really is just common sense and shows you how completely unhinged the Republican Party is).

Alright, sorry for asking. :monster: It's interesting talking politics with someone who's not a ding dong head, and I need to get a clearer view anyways. We should really be discussing this in GJ though.
Nah it's fine. If you want to start a thread in there go ahead, it's definitely moar appropriate there anyway and moar people will respond to it.


But everyone has a right to free speech, right? It's not like anyone's preventing us from speaking up, and it doesn't make much of a difference... right?
No one is using laws to preventing anyone from saying anything. The thing is, this is the internet. It's effectively a bottom-up method of communication. That's never existed before. The media is a top-down system. He who controls the media corporations controls the message that gets out. It's a form of de facto censorship - the government isn't doing it, a private corporation is doing it. If someone says something that's unacceptable to the people controlling the media, they can be forced out. So effectively, yeah, we've always had nominal freedom of speech, but the fact is that the powerful, and those who are willing to voice opinions that the powerful wish to have voiced, have always had a lot more freedom of speech than the rest of people have had. Thanks to the internet that's changing somewhat now and there are all kinds of books coming out bemoaning the "cult of the amateur" and the "dumbest generation" and such because the idea of bottom-up control is very threatening to the people in power. It may not last if net neutrality is done away with, but for now there actually is the potential that things may change eventually. Still, the majority of people don't use the internet as obsessively as we do, and even of those who do, probably only a very small percentage are willing to research politics thoroughly and find out about things like this. If real change is going to happen it's going to take a lot more coordination.
 
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Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
What the hell was that?

Pretting fuxing scary if you ask me. :D

I'm drinking lots of water, getting... not much sleep but that's always been me, so yeah, I have to get that checked. Two days ago was the worst because I was sweating and cold at the same time, the room was blurry, and I felt like I was going to throw up. And YOU, that is one EPIC video.

Good... just try and take it easy then, until you get it checked. :) Maybe you're starting to get sick? With more than a cold, obviously. Maybe. Hehe.
 

Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
She's right. Great Justice this.

I followed what Aaron said...basically, it's a matter of trying to please everyone. If they don't do what the populace (you and me) want, then they can't drum up the support/votes/etc - basically, no constituents. But if they piss of the ruling class (monied folk) by doing a lot of things that would actually help the regular people, then they become demonized by the media.
 

A

Great Old One
Not really, they can just make symbolic concessions and the media will report as though they're doing real change.
Why would the media do that? Do they get paid or somtehing?

Probably yeah. He didn't really run as a dove; he always emphasized that he would be intensifying combat operations in Afghanistan and a substantial of the 18-35 bloc that voted for him had strong anti-war sentiments but it's noteworthy that Obama fell behind in polls after the RNC until the worst part of the recession started. Effectively he was elected as a result of the economy. But yeah, according to the media he's decreased the military budget (he's actually increased it by about 4%) and he's a huge pacifist because he's willing to sit down and talk with countries like Iran and Cuba (which really is just common sense and shows you how completely unhinged the Republican Party is).
Is he more focused on the economy or getting us out of the war? Because getting us out of the war would give us a bigger jump on the economy, right? Or am I wrong?

Nah it's fine. If you want to start a thread in there go ahead, it's definitely moar appropriate there anyway and moar people will respond to it.
I don't know what I should call it, tbh. I suck at making threads. :monster:

I followed what Aaron said...basically, it's a matter of trying to please everyone. If they don't do what the populace (you and me) want, then they can't drum up the support/votes/etc - basically, no constituents. But if they piss of the ruling class (monied folk) by doing a lot of things that would actually help the regular people, then they become demonized by the media.
Wouldn't the same be said for Bush though?
 

Hawkeye.

Hero of the Ages says Shabz.
But everyone has a right to free speech, right? It's not like anyone's preventing us from speaking up, and it doesn't make much of a difference... right?
No, if you disagree with my political views in even the slightest then I'll hate you forever.:monster:
 
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A

Great Old One
Stop editing Aaron. :(

No one is using laws to preventing anyone from saying anything. The thing is, this is the internet. It's effectively a bottom-up method of communication. That's never existed before. The media is a top-down system. He who controls the media corporations controls the message that gets out. It's a form of de facto censorship - the government isn't doing it, a private corporation is doing it. If someone says something that's unacceptable to the people controlling the media, they can be forced out. So effectively, yeah, we've always had nominal freedom of speech, but the fact is that the powerful, and those who are willing to voice opinions that the powerful wish to have voiced, have always had a lot more freedom of speech than the rest of people have had. Thanks to the internet that's changing somewhat now and there are all kinds of books coming out bemoaning the "cult of the amateur" and the "dumbest generation" and such because the idea of bottom-up control is very threatening to the people in power. It may not last if net neutrality is done away with, but for now there actually is the potential that things may change eventually. Still, the majority of people don't use the internet as obsessively as we do, and even of those who do, probably only a very small percentage are willing to research politics thoroughly and find out about things like this. If real change is going to happen it's going to take a lot more coordination.
Ah.... thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.

And hey, at least America is the most outspoken country. We don't get killed if we speak up. :monster:

True, but you're ruining the moment.
Beautiful, it is. :monster:
 

Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
The same is true for every politician. Bush curried favor by being the 9/11 president - what he did in the following couple of weeks made people love him for a while. That, and giving the rich folk a reach-around (as a Republican/conservative, this is basically "the rich helping the rich get richer") got him in office the second time.

However, fucking up left and right in obvious ways, the shit economy, lies about the war, etc, got us peons fed up, and we wanted his ass OUT. Whereas the media was still kissing his ass all the way through his last days.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
Why would the media do that? Do they get paid or somtehing?
They're owned by corporations who don't want anything to change. NBC is owned by General Electric, ABC is owned by Disney, CBS is owned by Viacom, Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch (who can basically be considered a mouthpiece of the Republican Party), etc. These are all giant corporations who serve to gain absolutely nothing from anything but the most rigid form of pro-corporate capitalism and thus they have a vested interest in making sure that other forms of economic organisation aren't even talked about.

Is he more focused on the economy or getting us out of the war? Because getting us out of the war would give us a bigger jump on the economy, right? Or am I wrong?
No there's a very strong case that ending the war would help the economy since it would free up money to be spent on other things, though there's also the possibility of screwing things up by pulling out too quickly and allowing things to descend into chaos as we did by pulling suddenly out of Afghanistan after the "collapse" of the Soviet Union, which allowed the Taliban to take over. I think Obama wants to be cautious about preventing a repeat of that, which is commendable, though other parts of his foreign policy are much less so. But so it goes, you don't get anyone perfect in charge.

I really don't think he's doing enough for the economy, but at the same time I also don't think he has the political capital to do so yet. He probably doesn't have the political capital to craft a perfect foreign policy either. Another big lie the press feeds you is that the president has perfect control over his legislative agenda. Really that's established by a system of negotiations and backroom dealings in Congress.

I don't know what I should call it, tbh. I suck at making threads. :monster:
"The Propaganda Model and associated discussion" would probably be fine.

Wouldn't the same be said for Bush though?
Bush ran as a compassionate conservative and then proceeded to make a complete mockery of the idea of compassion for the rest of his two terms in office :monster: That didn't stop the media from buying the charade wholesale though.

Really though, yes, it was much the same story, the difference is that Obama actually is trying to maintain some semblance of principle whereas Bush pretty much just did whatever powerful people wanted.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
Stop editing Aaron. :(
no u :@

srsly though, k, I'll just maek moar poasts or something.

Ah.... thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.
No problem.

And hey, at least America is the most outspoken country. We don't get killed if we speak up. :monster:
Yeah one thing America actually is #1 at is legal freedom of speech. Europe actually has outclassed us in just about everything else (Scandinavia in particular is way way ahead on indicators like standard of living and people's satisfaction with the level of democracy in their countries), but we actually have much more freedom to say what we mean without consequences from the government than people in any European country that I'm aware of.
 

A

Great Old One
It might be going to a touchy subject here, but I kind of feel bad for the guy. When we started off everyone was encouraging for a war. Then when we got our asses basically kicked that's when everyone started blaming Bush for everything that happened.
 

Ⓐaron

Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
AKA
The Man, V
It might be going to a touchy subject here, but I kind of feel bad for the guy. When we started off everyone was encouraging for a war. Then when we got our asses basically kicked that's when everyone started blaming Bush for everything that happened.
He led the cheerleading for the war in Iraq, which had nothing to do with the attacks, more than anyone tbh. If he'd just invaded Afghanistan I probably would have a fair amount of sympathy for him though.
 

A

Great Old One
Shit, I'd love to talk more, but I have to take off to eat dinner. See you guys later, and I'll make a thread for this. :)
 

Hawkeye.

Hero of the Ages says Shabz.
It might be going to a touchy subject here, but I kind of feel bad for the guy. When we started off everyone was encouraging for a war. Then when we got our asses basically kicked that's when everyone started blaming Bush for everything that happened.
I have very little sympathy for the man at this point in time. But I do understand why some people would play Devil's advocate. It's always important to hear other perspectives.
 
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