I'm new here, I think.
This is longer than I intended. Sorry, read it though maybe?
The fight is epic, the best of the compilation by far. Cloud and Sephiroth certainly demonstrate why they are the series center rivals. Seriously, amazing upgrade to the original. It was perfect, it is complete.
This thread was pretty interesting and I'm pleasantly surprised-amazed rather- that people can actually play around with the idea that Sephiroth tried to kill Cloud. I've seen countless threads where people insist he was toying with Cloud and could have killed him any moment he wished once he was reborn.
This time Cloud isn't hit against the wall, he is sent completely through it. Square is definitely trying to show not only Sephiroth's amazing power in ACC or Cloud's amazing will/whatever it is he has and mettle as a SOLDIER -well, it is what's inside that counts right? The thing that makes Cloud the SOLDIER he once claimed himself to be and even more- but also, the seriousness of this confrontation. Sephiroth has every intention of walking away alone and accomplishing his objectives. He did not just go through 2 years to have a sparring match with Cloud. He's here for a reason, and for Cloud's demise. But the thing is, Cloud's death won't simply satisfy him. It is his goal, but what he desires is the destruction of Cloud's will? spirit? whatever makes Cloud the thorn in his side and the one with the fangs to kill him.
It's sadistic, but like Mako points out it's not necessarily exclusive to murder. Sephiroth is serious in the fight and going for the kill, while employing the taunting and dialogue to belittle Cloud and crush his resolve.
I think Sephiroth almost is trying to justify his lack of acknowledgment to this man, the one boy who ended his dream and defeated the strongest SOLDIER in the world. It's a fatal character flaw that lets him be overwhelmed time and time again by Cloud. Sephiroth is unquestionably stronger than everyone. That's not a reason to count Cloud out though.
Cloud comes to blows with Sephiroth and survives to fight on longer, the fact he isn't killed right out is testament to his growth from a grunt, not Sephiroth's lack of intent. No one else would have been able to survive so long against what is not even human, but instead, an unrelenting Demi-god.The entire fight, Cloud fends off Sephiroth and manages to push him back and take to the offensive at points. Cloud had just finished a battle with Bahamut Sin Yazoo & Loz and Kadaj as well before crossing blades with Sephiroth too, so it's completely reasonable that he grew exhausted when facing a fighter even stronger than himself.
Did Aeriths rain cure his fatigue? If so, he still challenged Kadaj- and though Kadaj was no challenge, any bit of added stamina is an incredibly valuable thing considering his next challenge. I don't feel that Sephiroth had the opportunity to kill Cloud until the end/impalement.
If you feel this is toying, then I can agree. But I don't view this toying as a type of non lethal behavior or not serious. He drops a building on Cloud as a gift. Lethal 'toying'. His strikes are to kill, maybe not instantly-Decapitation is really the only way, but to kill none the less. I don't recall a situation where a decapitation was possible either. Cloud was on guard the entire time, there wasn't the 'incapacitated against a slab of concrete' moment either. Maybe, when he should have been unable to move after having his ligaments cut. But, then again... thank you Zack for a pep talk baby, you are certainly Cloud's best friend and a man worthy of that Legacy contract.
I loved how Sephiroth fends off Omnislash this time around. Blocking, evading and then impaling Cloud like he did so many years ago. It was a case of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This is important I feel, as it it shows that Sephiroth has learned, and was wary to be on guard for what ended him before.In fact, this shows he is obviously far superior to his past incarnation. He is not stupid and for those who argue his arrogance- He shows he has reason for it right here. It's the refusal to acknowledge the whelp who defeated him twice and injured his pride as his greatest threat and his 'rival' that harms him. But...
"Is this the pain you felt before, Cloud? Let me remind you. This time you won't forget." This line was absolutely sinister and the English VA absolutely nailed it. It reeks of superiority and malice. sending the viewers back to Nibelheim Reactor for a moment before bringing us back knowing Cloud was soon to be fated to feel Sephiroth's revenge and hatred towards him and their past.
Cloud is thrown like a rag doll in to the sky, one handed no less. That really gives perspective in to both of their power. Cloud is trading blows with him the entire time after all.
Following up- It's not Octoslash right? It looked like nine strikes, two of which Cloud somehow blocks. He can't fly, so... he is a sitting target there.
This was brutal, those hits are lethal. Complete stabs over various vital points and the final one through the foot/knee area would have certainly killed any other character. After being impaled through the chest and hitting a lung at least- That whole area has a nice array of vital organs- finishing off with a slam to the ground for good measure. The blood loss displays the obvious severity of the clash.
I really can't see how the above sequence of attacks wasn't intended to kill. Cloud even evaded a blow to the face with that strike- and somehow loosing his leg when he was tossed hard, very hard. Either way, the Diving overhead slash that Sephiroth initiated was undoubtedly the killing blow. Cloud was immobile, Cloud was weakened, and Sephiroth had crushed his will to the point that all things seemed hopeless. Yet, that trait that makes Cloud the man he is forced him to his feet to try and continue even though things were grim.
This is where Zack intervenes and reminds Cloud of who he is and the Legacy that Cloud embodies. This scene was important, and really awesome. It shows these two friends bonds and Cloud's moving forward in life, tossing away insecurities and facing his darkness, his responsibility head on and by himself. The will to never give up and to overcome even the greatest of obstacles. Cloud's greatest strength, a will that Sephiroth - the greatest of wills- can't crush. One with a capacity to cherish all things.
Sephiroth's reaction after wards as Cloud jumps to block his attack and continue on the assault seemed surprised and annoyed as well, followed by pleased. He was pleased that Cloud had more strength than he calculated and that is his fatal flaw resurfacing. His blindness to the threat before him. Even though he is a Demi-god, he can still die. He goes to continue what should have ended moments before and clashes blades for a final time.
Omnislash V6: Perfect Move. It really is so much better than V5. This scene dispelled really any notion of Cloud only winning through surprise. It was a complete attack.
I count 13 strikes. But someone made an elaborate analysis of the attack before, suggesting 16 and I can believe it. I felt that I may have not noticed a few slashes or that a few may have hit at the same time while I was watching. We'll stick with 13 until an official statement is released though.
More importantly, Sephiroth was surprised. Not only that, but he felt pain, terror, and confusion in this attack. He couldn't believe what was transpiring all about him. What I love most is that Cloud almost seemed to taunt him during the attack. What I mean is that the after images and such completely threw him off guard. Sephiroth even had a moment in which to look around and mount a defense, block an attack, move away, get some kind of understanding that Cloud's fucking him up again. But...
Sephiroth couldn't track Cloud at all.
He was overwhelmed, undeniably and utterly. The strongest being on the planet was Bisected 13 times(at least).
Regardless of the power difference between Cloud and Sephiroth, Cloud has a technique nothing can survive.
Cloud is the strongest of his party for a reason. (He was above 99? Sephiroth above him and everyone else was 99 IIRC.)
Omnislash V1 takes place in a split second? I think it's stated in the ultimania under the description? Feedback please, if you would be so kind. If it does, that was an incredibly slowed down second. It's nothing compared to V6 though, what with complete bisections, spirit copies and instantaneous speed.
Omnislash V6 take place within a split second and that's scary, the scene was slowed down I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) just to allow viewing. This brings me to a final unrelated point that if need be I'll make a topic for it (Where would it go? DoC? General?) The question is this.
Since Sephiroth is superior to everyone, we can assume he is faster than Weiss and Vincent (Omega and Chaos included) - Yes? If so than why does his and Cloud's movements seem so slow in comparison?
I believe it is simply due to presentation, and that Cloud and Sephiroth are above them. By presentation, I mean the way in which the scene is viewed. In Doc when the scene isn't slowed we see flashes to signify a high speed battle. Loz has instantaneous movement at times which Cloud has shown to handle and Omnislash v6 seems the fastest movement in the compilation.
I believe that it's all in how the show the scenes and that they could have done the same in AC had they rather showed flashes rather than full on movement- but that would have been boring so they allow us to enjoy the high speed of the characters and stylize it at time with an affect like blue spirit stream.
- If the assumption about Sephiroth is wrong than I see a few solutions.
A. Weiss and Vincent are far faster than him and thus Cloud. I personally can't wrap my mind around it since the "Nothing above him" quote.
B. This also implys that Loz is faster than Sephiroth due to presentation. I don't buy it. Loz is part of Sephiroth so him being superior in any aspect is impossible as I see it. Supporting my belief that they are moving at high speed regardless and that Weiss/Vincent's is simply another device to display speed (Disappearing /Flashes). Wasn't the video in DoC not really the same as well? The quality seemed different compared to the ending movie maybe that's why the stylization is different. I love this fight though. It is uber.
C. Or, Vincent/Weiss are faster than Sephiroth but not to the point he cant see them? So then faster than Cloud, but Not during Omnislash v6?
It's really an annoying question. How can Cloud be above his teammates if he's slower than one, and how can Sephiroth be the best if he's not either? Only explanation is different presentation and stylization during fights to make them more entertaining.
Discuss, please. Or move that part to another thread or whatever is appropriate.
