Crisis Core....Am I supposed to hate Zack?

[Octo]

And hey, after the sausagefest of emo, angst, brooding and gloom that were DoC and AC/ACC, Zack is really refreshing. How can somebody hate that guy?

Because I have doo doo in my soul! Seriously though I thought he was refreshing enough as a contrast to Cloud in the original game. I just think they overdid it for Crisis Core.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

^^If Zack was a Turk... well, the Turks would either get nothing done or they would know everything about everybody because of how easily Zack connects to people. But yeah... not good.

To start off with, he'd be like a male version of Elena. Then he'd keep ruining missions because he'd stopped to help someone. Veld would gradually bring him into line. Zack would start off believing in what he was doing, and end up bring corrupted by degrees. He'd still be alive, though. It would be a much sadder story than the one he currently stars in.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

If you hate Zack,

 

[Wolf Kanno]

While I've certainly have my issues with Crisis Core

Spoiler

(smurf you Genesis, you whiny, pain in the ass Sephiroth-wannabe who couldn't shut the smurf up about that stupid play that was just a three second light display from the original game. No I don't care that you are modeled and voiced by Gackt, you are everything that is wrong with the modern JRPG... A flashy bloated, unoriginal angst riddled characture that hardly resembles anything likable. I hope that Squenix buries you in the darkest vaults that this terrible mistake will never be repeated, also die in a fire...)

watching Zack grow was one of the better parts of the game. He is obnoxious in the early parts, and I do feel he suffers a bit of adaption decay from the original, but I feel he comes across as one of the better portrayed characters in the Compilation.

Granted, I prefer his more humble and senseless end from the original over his expanded, over the top, melodramatic ending (though the final battle was certainly very creative).

 

[Masamune]

Crisis Core....Am I supposed to hate Zack?

Probably.

 

[Octo]

If you hate Zack,

Fix-ed

 

[Scias]

But they DO everything wrong with or without hate

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Their lack of money speaks for itself
Come to SE's funeral thread.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Granted, I prefer his more humble and senseless end from the original over his expanded, over the top, melodramatic ending (though the final battle was certainly very creative).

The only thing I hated about his death was Angeal coming in there and taking him away with fluffy white wings and feathers all around.

I mean like... wat. I really don't think that was necessary.

Crisis Core....Am I supposed to hate Zack?

Not sure why you're supposed to because I don't think game companies and the writers don't make it a point to write a hateful protagonist to star in their game (unless it's something like... GTA or something)...

Then again this is coming from the people who made Genesis. So I'm not really sure.


/came to the party late?

 

[OneWingedDemon]

The only thing I hated about his death was Angeal coming in there and taking him away with fluffy white wings and feathers all around.

Ja, it was pretty unnecessary and they should ahve just cut to him dying. That scene drags on and on. SE does this a lot.

 

[I Am Not Me]

Ja, it was pretty unnecessary and they should ahve just cut to him dying. That scene drags on and on. SE does this a lot.

It's just the typical SE mindset that the only way to make an impact is to drag a scene on and on with epic graphicz omg!!!!111

Cloud's reaction to his death was heartwrenching. The Angeal-taking-Zack-away part ruins it.

 

[Torrie]

"Am I supposed to hate Zack?" is an excellent question. Really.

So we've got this guy who is generally happy-go-lucky, competitive, strong-willed, looking to help anybody in need, and on top of that incredibly attractive and charming. A typical hero starter pack. I mean, what's not to like? But, I thought, there must be something, at least some bits and pieces, which would elicit some healthy criticism.

#1 I feel like criticizing Zack for not keeping in touch with his parents. They must have been worried sick, but eventually gave up on the idea to see their son again. But this is my rational adult ego speaking. Who isn't rebellious in their teens? Besides, his life in Shinra was eventful enough to keep him busy and sort of oblivious anyway. But it still doesn't justify him enough.

#2 Zack never answers e-mails?! Okay, okay, my assumption is that he does, but the game never shows it because that would take additional screentime and would probably be unnecessary for the plot progression. I don't expect the Metal Gear Solid level of interaction, but I'd still love to see at least a few replies to Kunsel's, Cissnei's, or Cloud's messages.

...aaand whoops I've run out of ideas.

 

[Odysseus]

Well he is a giant, morally bankrupt hypocrite. There's that.

 

[kathy202]

That's an interesting question. I find Zack to be a likable character, but if I knew someone like that IRL, he'd annoy the crap out of me.

But this isn't real life. So yeah, uh, lame attempt at adding to the list, but I find him a bit too nice to girls in general.

 

[Wol]

Well I certainly hate Zack now.

 

[Clement Rage]

He spends most of his time trying to save people from being killed by monsters. You might not like him as a person, but a lot of people don't die because he was in the right place at the right time.

 

[Cat on Mars]

He spends most of his time trying to save people from being killed by monsters.

Isn't that part of his job anyway?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is he a hypocrite, or is he just a knucklehead? I always thought the latter.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Is he a hypocrite, or is he just a knucklehead? I always thought the latter.

I think it's a bit of column A and a bit of column B.
He's a hyprocrite because even when he learns all the fucked up shit ShinRa does, he still doesn't want to think about it, he'd rather go to sleep and embrace his failed mentor's failed ideals because it's more comforting and he doesn't need to face reality and take responsability for his actions, delegating the rest of the mission to a very unstable Sephiroth (great idea, Zack).
And at the same time, he doesn't have enough self-awareness to understand how his morality is... well, non-existent. There's moral relativism and then you have Zack. He's almost amoral and that's why he's so good at his job.

You could argue that he's simply too immature to act in bad faith but eh... I stopped believing that when he chose to not think about what was happening in Nibelheim.

 

[Torrie]

That's an interesting question. I find Zack to be a likable character, but if I knew someone like that IRL, he'd annoy the crap out of me.

But this isn't real life. So yeah, uh, lame attempt at adding to the list, but I find him a bit too nice to girls in general.

I used to have a university friend who was pretty much like that. He behaved as if he had a Duracell battery installed in him, and was so nice to all the girls around him that it made some people wonder which girl was his actual girlfriend (spoiler: none of them). The funniest thing is that he named himself Zac after the actor Zac Efron, and he'd never heard of any of Final Fantasy titles. Such people may be wonderful friends but having them around all the time gets on your nerves quite a bit. The army changed him eventually, quite like Nibelheim changed Zack Fair, but for some reason we didn't get on that well anymore and have slowly lost touch since then.

 

[Clement Rage]

Isn't that part of his job anyway?

Sort of, but he usually goes above and beyond unless stopped somehow.

Re Nibelheim, I think he was still processing and we never really found out what his real reaction was, because Nibelheim happened.

 

[Ite]

This is an interesting thread to have phoenix down'ed. I regret how petulant I was at the top of the thread (10 years ago...!?) and I've 180'd on most of those opinions to boot (although in some respects my Compilation hatred has only matured mwhahah). That doesn't lead into my point, just thought I'd share.

Sometimes I think Zack's writing suffers from his martyrdom being a foregone conclusion. The writers are a bit precious with him, and with his tragic death as the first kernel of story idea for CC, he's written to be adored, and I really like the idea of trying to humanize him by knockin' him down a peg!

What I really want to know is: If Sephiroth had died of an anuerysm the moment he told Zack that Hojo was behind the pod people... Would Zack still have turned on Shinra? Or would he be very angry and upset, but go back and report to HQ anyway? I'm inclined to believe the latter -- I don't know why. Certainly he's not intended to be seen as cowardly or uncaring or oblivious... but somehow I kind of think all three? To his credit, Zack is very brave and sacrificial when it comes to helping people he personally knows, but would he really care about nameless pod people enough to make an enemy of Shinra, knowing what that meant? I don't see it.

 

[Odysseus]

I really like the idea of trying to humanize him by knockin' him down a peg!

Me and Cat have been shit talking the poor guy a lot in PMs, and I really do feel like Crisis Core's biggest failing was never having a moment where Zack breaks. It's like you say, had circumstances allowed he probably would have gone running home to Shinra, just a little disgruntled. He never rejects this failed ideology that has become the basis for his persona; he's toppled nations and brought them into Shinra's capitalist regime, yet he still thinks he's the hero? He's a god damned hypocrite who only values the interests of those closest to him, he couldn't care less about everything else he's done in Shinra's name.

In my opinion, his saving Cloud should have been his redeeming moment, that last chance to make things right in the face of all the blood and sin that his life was comprised of up to that moment. That'd be the moment where he actually became, however briefly, a "hero." That kind of story would mean taking risks though, and that's not what Square was interested in doing. Zack's death is no moment of redemption, it's the capstone to his "heroic legacy." We're "supposed" to think he was an amazing person, but I really do just hate him.

 

[kathy202]

He never rejects this failed ideology that has become the basis for his persona; he's toppled nations and brought them into Shinra's capitalist regime, yet he still thinks he's the hero?

Phew, thank you, that was satisfying to read. Couldn't put a finger on what about Zack bugged me before, and why I would be annoyed with someone like that IRL but yeah, exactly this.

Now I'm starting to dislike this character, along with some people I actually know in life... oh no.

 

[looneymoon]

Zacks a fuckin boot licker