DCFFVII Research Thread

[Shademp]

- LATE RANT: There are small tank-like enemies with shields that they'll bump you into the ground with. Usually you will take these enemies using magic. Funny thing is that before your first encounter with these, the game gives you the "Power Cross" accessory, which enhances the strength of melee attacks. I am almost convinced that the game intended for these small tanks to be taken down using melee attacks and that the Power Cross would help. Big surprise: Melee attacks against these annoying enemies will not end well. You WILL be bumped by their shields. ALOT.

Thinking back to this part of the game, which is shortly before the Shelke battle, I see that the game presents you with three viable options.
1) Use Galian Beast. If this is JORG, the mako point right before will help if you are short on magic. Galian Beast's melee attacks are actually somewhat useful against these enemies.
2) Use magic. Plain and simple. The mako point right before will help. Post-JORG, it is an obvious strategy to use Thunder for insta-kill. In JORG, the kill won't be instant (also the only magic available to you here, in JORG, is Fire).
3) Use the exploding barrels. Normally I instantly explode the barrel, killing the surrounding soldiers. BUT! Maybe, if you begin by killing off the normal soldiers, then LURE the shield-enemies to you, the barrels can be used to kill them. This would make a lot of sense actually and I should try this sometime.


- Actually went back to redo the spider robot battle in Shinra Manor. Redid three times actually, because I tested out different equipment and upgrades. In the end, I chose not to upgrade the Rapid Fire accessory. Spending all that money just so Vincent can shoot fast and run while aiming isn't worth it. Hard Mode is more about precision, which in turn makes the gameplay slower and so I can afford Vincent being slow while he is aiming. Instead used the money to upgrade more in the power department. I am NOT using 32000 gil (or whatever the number was) to upgrade Materia Floater, that's for sure. Lv2 magic is strong enough and later on Thunder will only be useful for stunning foes, so powering it up is superfluous.

Spoiler

Except possibly for when it comes to fighting multiple magical-shield soldiers.

 

[Strangelove]

I went through the extra mission names and this is what I found (names in italics aren't different):

Spoiler

風の台地 [Wind Plateau]
Zephyr Heathlands
* Japanese name is not as fancy and the English one

ミサイラーウィドー [Missileer Widow]
Widow Missileer
* They are in the opposite way around for reasons??

荒野の魔物 [Monsters of the Wastelands]
Wastelings
* English version went with a made-up word

マジシャンヴィンセント [Magician Vincent]
Vincent the Mage
* 'Magician' is maybe more common and easy to understand for Japanese players

ディープラビリンス
Deep Labyrinth

モンスターボックス [Monster Box]
Boxemon
* The English name looks like a Pokemon reference? I don't think that's really there in the Japanese name

ガトリンガーヴィンセント・荒野 [Gatlinger Vincent - Wastelands]
Gatling in the Wastes
* The Japanese title makes it sound like there will be more 'Gatlinger Vincent' missions, which I don't think the English one captures too well

密林の覇者
Lord of the Jungle
* Can be 'forest' or 'jungle'. 'Lord' is more 'conqueror/victory' but I guess the meaning is basically the same

ケット・シー100人斬り [Cait Sith 100 man cutting]
Cait Verses the World
* The most popular uses of 100人斬り as a single phrase seems to be in reference to an alleged war crime in China by Japanese army offices, or sleeping with a lot of people. Obviously this is going for the literal meaning ['cutting/斬り' being a synonym for killing someone with a sword]. Which is a lot to write to say I actually like the English one better since it keeps with the rest of the Cait Sith missions

ミサイルブレイカー [Missile Breaker]
Missilebreaker Melee
* For some reason they added 'Melee' to the end of this one

コレクターズマインド
Collecter's Mind

ボンバーヴィンセント [Bomber Vincent]
Vincent the Destroyer
* All the '[---] Vincent' missions become 'Vincent the [---]' in the English version

ゲヘナズレイン [Gehenna's Rain? Reign?]
Rains of Gehenna
* I don't know what's going on here so I don't know what to say. There's no 's' on the 'rain' in the Japanese title but it uses 'Gehenna's' (Gehennas?) instead of the usual Japanese grammar

グラップラーヴィンセント [Grappler Vincent]
Vincent the Grappler
* Changed the order again

赤と青
Red and Blue

暗黒下水道 [Dark Sewers]
Stygian Sewers
* Someone at Square loves their book of unusual words

黄泉からの刺客 [Assassin from the Land of the Dead]
Messenger from Hell
* 黄泉 (yomi) is the land of the dead in Shintoism, but apparently it is used by some Japanese Christians as a translation for 'Hell'

無限砂漠 [Infinite Desert]
Badlands
* You weren't even trying to be the same, Square

ゴーストルーム [Ghost Room]
Chamber of Ghosts
* 'Chamber' sounds fancier

ディープタワー
Deep Tower

ケット・シーＶＳ朱のロッソ [Cait Sith Vs Rosso the Crimson]
Cait Versus the Crimson
* These battles use 'VS' in the Japanese titles, as use the full title for the enemies instead

真・神羅屋敷 [True Shinra Manor]
Shinra Manor Prime
* Calling things 'True/真・' is a common game thing, but I don't know about 'Prime'

城壁攻防戦 [Rampart Struggle/Attack and Defence Battle]
Rampart Rumble
* Alliteration is always fun

リバースカーム [Reverse Kalm]
Contra Kalm
* 'Contra' makes me think it's 'against Kalm', whereas 'リバース' makes me think more 'bizarro Kalm' (I don't actually know what these missions entail so I don't know how well the names fit)

ミサイルデストロイヤー [Missile Destoryer]
Missilebreaker Deathmatch
* The Japanese title amps up the previous title from 'Breaker' to 'Destroyer', but the English one kept 'Missilebreaker' and just made it a 'Deathmatch' for reasons

ケット・シーＶＳ蒼きアスール [Cait Sith Vs Azul the Cerulean]
Cait Versus the Cerulean
* As above

ビーストヴィンセント [Beast Vincent]
Vincent the Beast
* As above

ビッグブリッジ [Big Bridge]
Cyclopean Causeway
* Why did you do this, Square. Do you hate FF references. Is your love for fancy-ass words so much greater?

トリックアーチ [Trick Arch]
Trick Arc
* Minor difference

針10万本
100,000 Needles

ケット・シーＶＳ真・アスール [Cait Sith Vs True Azul]
Cait Versus the Bull
* 'True Azul/真・アスール' is the name of the transformed Azul. Was he called 'Bull' in English or is that just because he kind of looks like a Bull?

ＤＧソルジャー [DG SOLDIER]
Deepground Soldiers
* Japanese title abbreviates Deepground as uses the 'SOLDIER' as was used in all FFVII titles (did the English DC just use 'Soldier' for that?)

シールドブレイカー
Shieldbreaker

スパイラルビル [Spiral Building]
Spiral
* English name decided to drop 'Building' for... I don't know anymore

ワンハンドレッドバリアー [One-Hand Red Barrier]
One-Handed
* They didn't bother to keep the second part of the title in English

ブラック・ウィドー・テトラ
Black Widow Tetra

デスガトリンガー [Death Gatlinger]
Gatling Shower
* This is the last gatling mission so the 'Gatlinger Vincent - Wastelands' thing that made it seem like there would be a series of those missions with similar names lied to me

流しそうめん [Nagashi-soumen]
Go with the Flow
* Nagashi-soumen is a way of eating soumen noodles that Japanese people would know but would probably be lost on players who aren't familiar with Japanese cuisine

帝王の血族 [The Emperor's Kin]
Brotherly Love
* If they didn't use Weiss' 'Emperor' title much in the English game then I guess the reference wouldn't work as well

アンリミテッドＤＧ
Unlimited DG

ドラムエクスプロージョン [Drum Explosion]
Drumline
* The Japanese title sounds like there's going to be a lot of exploding going on, the English one that there's a line of drums?

ツーハンドレッドホーン [Two-Hand Red Horn]
Two-Handed
* They cut the last half off again

ケット・シーＶＳ純白の帝王ヴァイス [Cait Sith Vs Weiss, the Pure-White Emperor]
Cait Versus the Empowered
* Was 'Empowered' used for one of the Weiss fights?

ディープグラウンド
Deepground

巨大施設攻略戦！ [Storming the Giant Facility!]
Stronghold Impervious
* The Japanese title doesn't really go for the 'impervious' angle, just that you're going to be capturing some big building

幻影バリケード [Illusion Barricade]
An Invitation to Illusion
* The English name is kind of vague, except there's some illusions, but the Japanese one seems a bit clearer (assuming this mission has anything to do with barricades)

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

真・神羅屋敷 [True Shinra Manor]
Shinra Manor Prime
* Calling things 'True/真・' is a common game thing, but I don't know about 'Prime'

It could have been "Proto" again, so be thankful.

 

[Shademp]

VERSION DIFFERENCES

- On your way to the first G Report, there is one DG soldier with rapid fire beyond the top of the stairs. In JORG, he fires "straight ahead". He doesn't actually fire at YOU. Post-JORG this is corrected and he fires down. Pity. It's hilarious to see this retarded behavior in JORG.

- I have now confirmed that the third Cactuar, the one revealed by shooting down a barrel that then explodes, is a post-JORG exclusive. The barrels (and the cactuar) are not present in any difficulty mode in JORG.

Spoiler: Pointless image showing spot that lack barrels in JORG

- Before the area with the "Defeat 100 Enemies" challenge, you will normally get to fight a number of enemies before a shop reveals itself. Post-JORG, this happens for Normal Mode and Hard Mode. In Ex-Hard there are no enemies and no shop. In JORG, the enemies appear for Easy- and Normal Mode, but not for Hard Mode.

The shop really is superfluous because there is another one nearby.


RAMBLINGS AND GENERAL OBSERVATIONS

- You know what sucks about both Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core? Invisible EXP. Crisis Core is the worse offender because EXP is not brought up in any menu available to the player. In DC you at least get to see your EXP gain inbetween missions (and your total EXP in Vincent's Status page). Unless you buy guides (or, well, browse FF wiki) you will not know that the Cactuars and others enemies in DC grants a considerable amount of EXP.

- The key to mastering Dirge of Cerberus is not to replay the game over and over, but to replay each section repeatedly until you find the EXACT perfect strategy. Intuition and reflexes are not the ways to find out how to pass sections with little to no damage. It's fun finding out ways to conserve ammo and HP in areas where previously you used to be slaughtered. There is also satisfaction in knowing how to make use of kill chains and how to rank the chain up pre-emptively for a given battle scenario.

Another key is to only upgrade these in the gun department: Cerberus, Long Barrel and Rifle. Everything else is pointless. I got in trouble in Normal Mode (JORG) because I insisted on upgrading the Short Barrel. In the end this made the playthrough too hard. By knowing where to spend your gil, you can easier save up money and get enough to have Ultima Weapon near the endgame.

Lex requested that I one day make a general DC guide with anecdotes on how to get through certain sections of the game, but I couldn't pick just a few game spots because the entire game requires memorization and strategy if you are to get through it perfectly.


- I was obviously wrong about there being only one "Adjuster" item in JORG.
In my Normal Mode playthrough I got three of these.

Spoiler

But so far in Hard I got two different ones.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Hmm, these newer snapshots are of lower quality. I wonder if I unwittingly changed a setting...


- TRIGGER POSITIONED EARLY for Shera scene!

In the second Shera act, after talking to Shelke (who goes to sleep), you can then trigger a scene right outside the engine room where Vincent loses control over Chaos for a moment.

Normally, in my experience, this scene is triggered only after entering the engine room and leaving it, having the scene triggered inbetween two doors.

But now in this Hard Mode playthrough of JORG, the scene triggered right before the first door, on your way to the engine room.

Replayed and managed to cause this early scene trigger again, but sadly I did not write down exactly how I had played the section. I'VE TRIED SO MANY WAYS TO CAUSE THIS EARLY TRIGGER AGAIN. It's infuriating to replay either the latter or both Shera acts, talk to people in different order, visiting the engine room early and sometimes not etc etc. I just can't figure out what the proper flags are. =/

I swear on me mom that this thing is real. It is possible to trigger the scene *before* the doors to the engine room.

Why am I obsessing? Because I want to know all the details! Why have a trigger that happens early, to supposedly help lost players get through the game, but then have the flags for the trigger be so odd and esoteric?


- Difference between gameplay and Event Viewer experience: Shera scene with Cait Sith. One has background music ("Return to the Subject" theme) and the Event Viewer doesn't.


- So far my experience with Lv2 Thunder magic in JORG Hard compared to Lv3 Thunder magic in JORG Normal is that...they are equal in power? Even if they are not equal, they are DAMN CLOSE to one another in power so much that I don't regret not upgrading the Materia Floater. The only difference is that Lv3 has a wider spread area.

General question: WTF is meant to be the purpose of Blizzard magic? Fire travels long and explodes. Thunder is short but wide. Blizzard travels long and attacks only a small spot. Blizzard is like a worse version of Fire. Unless of course Blizzard is meant to be more powerful than Fire, but the game hasn't prompted me to test this out yet.


- "Defeat 100 Enemies" in JORG Hard Mode awaits me...... I will not attempt this before careful planning and mental preparation. There is a very real possibility that I will lose in this part of the game and that I'll have to replay a huge part because of it. =/

 

[Shademp]

- Did some memory card testing. Confirmed that two saves from the same game version can't co-exist in one Memory Card. When copying one to the other, the new one has to overwrite the old one.

- Tested out starting the game with a memory card in Slot 2 instead of Slot 1, with nothing in Slot 1. The save file data in the Slot 2 memory card was NOT accessed. You start the game from a clean slate. ALSO! I clearly misremembered a big detail. All three difficulties in JORG are available from the outset. Hard Mode is not something you unlock. Can't believe I remembered this bit so completely wrong. You know what this means. I have to replay BOTH Normal Mode and Hard Mode as my "first" playthroughs, to see if the Event Viewer link image and text will change.



- Thunder Lv3 knocks enemies back. Thunder Lv2 only briefly stuns them.

- Ok this is very unexpected. I'm replaying the Deepground mission in JORG Normal Mode, for practice so I can easier do Hard Mode later on. To my surprise, the shop and the enemies before the challenge did not appear this time either! I have no recollection of this being the case my first time around. I don't get this. Is my memory THAT bad? Or are there specific conditions that must be met in order for the enemies to appear? ...I should revisit Easy Mode and see if the shop appears there.

UPDATE: Revisited this section in Normal Mode and NOW the shop appeared. What I did this time was that after getting the proper keycard, I instantly went to this part. Didn't go to other sections or get the 4 items in the keycard quest. Maybe that is what's been the deal, even in Ex Hard. When you get too far away (or maybe it's about which lasers you use the keycard on) the enemies and the shop will not appear.

SO MANY DETAILS AND UNEXPECTED TRIGGERS TO LEARN

- Wow, just found out that if you equip Vincent too heavily, he will not even be able to move from the spot whilst aiming. Shouldn't have upgraded that Power Booster.


- Redid the Defeat 100 Enemies bit in JORG Normal Mode. This was WAY easier with an upgraded Long Barrel instead of that shitty Short Barrel or Normal Barrel. No wonder I almost ran out of ammo that time, because the shorter barrels couldn't hit from afar worth a damn. Even without an auto-lock scope I handled this bit very well, thanks to the Nova Barrel (maximum upgrade from Long Barrel).

I also recorded the entirety of this challenge now, so I can ponder more efficient paths (the result was a video just under 20 minutes, 3.9 GB in size). Like I said before. Dirge of Cerberus is very little about skill and more about memorization and section replay.

 

[Shademp]

- When I find TINY differences such as two soldiers having their starting coordinates slightly changed between JORG and post-JORG, I think to myself "...How f*cking far should I go when I make a DC Version Guide? This tiny detail... WHY SHOULD I EVEN BOTHER?!"


- Confirmed in Ex Hard mode now that the shop before the 100 Enemies challenge can appear! I'm pretty sure I've pinned down the flag/trigger. As soon as you trigger the "Find 4 Items" keycard quest (meaning when the "Items 0/4" text appears) the enemies and the shop will NOT appear right before the Defeat 100 Enemies challenge. If you want the EXP from defeating enemies and also have a shop, but still have the goods from the keycard quest to help you through the 100 Enemies challenge, you must FIRST trigger the shop. After that you can indulge in the keycard quest to find a much desired Elixor (or two Elixors if you're playing JORG), then return and whack those 100 enemies.

I had so much fun now replaying this section repeatedly and finding the best strategies.

- I. AM. THE. FUCKING. BAWS!!! I not only defeated 100 enemies in JORG Hard Mode. I did it TWICE. No biggy. Just left and then returned for some more.

Thanks to the guide I wrote with guidelines and "where to stand when X number have been defeated" I was able to clear this without much trouble. The first time around I didn't even have to use an Elixor. You gain so much gil from this endeavor. When you are good at this part of the game, you can just redo it a few times and then you'll have enough money to get Ultima Weapon. Now I have TWO Gold Moogle Dolls I can sell.

Tested to see if the total kill counter reset when you re-entered the challenge, but it did not. After a successful 100-kill, you can go back, kill a few enemies, but your achievement will still be recorded. Of course the total "count" never goes above 100 and in the Mission Spoils, after defeating Nero, the cap is still 99. I wonder if you get an S ranking from defeating 99 enemies, which is where the cap is.

 

[Shademp]

- Unexpected difference in Mako Reactor 0 level. In the room where a DG soldier is pushing a machine gun into place, enemies will appear if Vincent himself sits on the machine gun chair.

I am used to there appearing two bazooka dudes who give you a keycard. You can use it to return to the shop in the earlier room. In Hard Mode, post-JORG, the lasers will get back up again however and you then have to battle gargoyles. In Ex Hard, after the gargoyles you have to battle bugs. Only then can you get back to the shop.

But here in JORG Hard Mode...only one bazooka guy appeared. I got the keycard and that was it. No multiple challenges to get back to the shop.


- In the room with the final G report, for some reason it took a really long time for the soldiers with bullet-proof shields to respawn after I had defeated four of them. I am used to a steady endless stream of them coming at you, but here there was an unusually long pause. Not sure what happened.

- Rapid Fire is really only worth it for the game's final bosses (pre-Omega Weapon) if you want a battle to end way faster than without it.

- It's funny. When Yuffie and Vincent split up right before the Mako Reactor 0 level starts, she says "I sneak into the reactor and shut her down". Her shutting down the reactor is never brought up again. I *guess* she was about to do it in the chamber where Weiss rests, but I honestly didn't think about that until now. There is never an indication that she manages to shut it down.

- My guess is that the black tentacles briefly ensnaring Shelke in the lifestream are manifested by Nero's will. Nero and Weiss did presumably fuse just before Omega Weapon formed. I reckon this is specified in one of the Japanese FFVII guides.

- Gained exactly 6666 EXP in the final EXP-gain screen. How satanic. One thing I don't get, after you receive EXP, is why the number for "EXP to spend" doesn't go to 0. It instead stops at some other number like 210. Must be some glitch. I think I've seen this in all the versions. Next time I'll count to see if all the EXP is actually spent but the number for "EXP to spend" is lying.

- Hard Mode in JORG...has been cleared! It was difficult in places, especially in the beginning. But by sticking to the proper gun upgrades + accessories and figuring out strategies I was able to finish it. Playing this difficulty taught me more about how to play any version of the game in a more efficient way.


At some point in the future, I will start out with a fresh memory card, clear Normal Mode and see if that changes the Event Viewer image link and text. If it is changed, I'll then have to clear Hard Mode a second time (on a fresh memory card there too) and see what becomes of the Event Viewer image.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Another key is to only upgrade these in the gun department: Cerberus, Long Barrel and Rifle. Everything else is pointless. I got in trouble in Normal Mode (JORG) because I insisted on upgrading the Short Barrel. In the end this made the playthrough too hard. By knowing where to spend your gil, you can easier save up money and get enough to have Ultima Weapon near the endgame.

I think it's interesting to learn this. I only ever made those upgrades and didn't bother with anything else gun related, just out of preference for playing that way.

- TRIGGER POSITIONED EARLY for Shera scene!

In the second Shera act, after talking to Shelke (who goes to sleep), you can then trigger a scene right outside the engine room where Vincent loses control over Chaos for a moment.

Normally, in my experience, this scene is triggered only after entering the engine room and leaving it, having the scene triggered inbetween two doors.

But now in this Hard Mode playthrough of JORG, the scene triggered right before the first door, on your way to the engine room.

Replayed and managed to cause this early scene trigger again, but sadly I did not write down exactly how I had played the section. I'VE TRIED SO MANY WAYS TO CAUSE THIS EARLY TRIGGER AGAIN. It's infuriating to replay either the latter or both Shera acts, talk to people in different order, visiting the engine room early and sometimes not etc etc. I just can't figure out what the proper flags are. =/

I swear on me mom that this thing is real. It is possible to trigger the scene *before* the doors to the engine room.

Are you quite sure about this being a difference? That seems to be the normal way this goes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LlFpINEWxU (3:38)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyjK6u7dwaE (4:37)
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18901380 (around 54 seconds)

Those first two are in English (possibly the North American version) and the third is JORG.

Now, the cutscene itself does show Vincent walking out of the engine room (you can see it behind him at the beginning of the cutscene), but I really think this is how it always goes down.

- Difference between gameplay and Event Viewer experience: Shera scene with Cait Sith. One has background music ("Return to the Subject" theme) and the Event Viewer doesn't.

I guess that makes sense somewhat.

- Tested out starting the game with a memory card in Slot 2 instead of Slot 1, with nothing in Slot 1. The save file data in the Slot 2 memory card was NOT accessed. You start the game from a clean slate. ALSO! I clearly misremembered a big detail. All three difficulties in JORG are available from the outset. Hard Mode is not something you unlock. Can't believe I remembered this bit so completely wrong. You know what this means. I have to replay BOTH Normal Mode and Hard Mode as my "first" playthroughs, to see if the Event Viewer link image and text will change.

I'd start with Normal since it will be easier, and you'll know after doing it if that trick will work.

- When I find TINY differences such as two soldiers having their starting coordinates slightly changed between JORG and post-JORG, I think to myself "...How f*cking far should I go when I make a DC Version Guide? This tiny detail... WHY SHOULD I EVEN BOTHER?!"

Jesus. Good question.

How much you want to bet that after all this, when you do get around to comparing Crisis Core JORG with an international version, there won't be any differences beyond the languages? =P

- Confirmed in Ex Hard mode now that the shop before the 100 Enemies challenge can appear! I'm pretty sure I've pinned down the flag/trigger. As soon as you trigger the "Find 4 Items" keycard quest (meaning when the "Items 0/4" text appears) the enemies and the shop will NOT appear right before the Defeat 100 Enemies challenge. If you want the EXP from defeating enemies and also have a shop, but still have the goods from the keycard quest to help you through the 100 Enemies challenge, you must FIRST trigger the shop. After that you can indulge in the keycard quest to find a much desired Elixor (or two Elixors if you're playing JORG), then return and whack those 100 enemies.

I had so much fun now replaying this section repeatedly and finding the best strategies.

Nice!

- I. AM. THE. FUCKING. BAWS!!! I not only defeated 100 enemies in JORG Hard Mode. I did it TWICE. No biggy. Just left and then returned for some more.

Hellz yeah. Good job.

 

[Shademp]

This thread and my research would be way less entertaining without you Tres. Hito and Tetsujin also help with their presence.

Are you quite sure about this being a difference? That seems to be the normal way this goes
...

Now, the cutscene itself does show Vincent walking out of the engine room (you can see it behind him at the beginning of the cutscene), but I really think this is how it always goes down.

Thank you for looking into this. The multiple triggers clearly isn't a version difference, just an odd detail in all editions. I uploaded a short clip showing the between-doors trigger.

(No idea why the video quality is low. Both Elgato and Sony Vegas seem to be acting up.)

This is the trigger I've seen for the majority of my playthroughs. Interesting that you only found the other trigger.

How much you want to bet that after all this, when you do get around to comparing Crisis Core JORG with an international version, there won't be any differences beyond the languages?

I'm convinced the Crisis Core version differences will be way fewer. There is no "JORG versus post-JORG" comparison to make, unlike with the original FFVII and with DC. That's where most of the content stems from.

But we both already know that there are some differences and they are worthy of listing. I can quickly round them up here.

CRISIS CORE VERSION DIFFERENCES
- Losing in optional missions.
Japanese: If Zack loses, you get a Game Over.
Localization: If Zack loses, you are brought back to the save point with all the battle spoils still intact. This makes grinding for the Minerva battle much easier, because you can steal 99 Phoenix Down and sell them repeatedly.

- Character surnames.
Japanese: Genesis, Angeal and Lazard are given no surnames in the mails Zack receive.
Localization: Genesis, Angeal and Lazard are all given surnames in the mails Zack receive.
You touched this version difference in your article about their surnames

- The Goddess statue in the Banora Underground.
Japanese: Likeness to Virgin Mary.
Localization: Religious connotation removed by greatly changing the statue.


Aside from this I've heard rumors that some bits are voiced in the English game but which are not voiced in the Japanese. I am yet to confirm this.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

This thread and my research would be way less entertaining without you Tres.

Thank you for looking into this. The multiple triggers clearly isn't a version difference, just an odd detail in all editions. I uploaded a short clip showing the between-doors trigger.

(No idea why the video quality is low. Both Elgato and Sony Vegas seem to be acting up.)

This is the trigger I've seen for the majority of my playthroughs. Interesting that you only found the other trigger.

Well, holy shit. How about that. I have literally only ever seen it the other way.

I have no idea what accounts for this difference.

Given that the cutscene shows Vincent emerging from the engine room, that, presumably, is the "right way" to do it. I always found that an oddity and assumed it was a mistake in development.

I wonder if not visiting the engine room until after the scene with Shelke getting tired and falling asleep is what does it?

I'm convinced the Crisis Core version differences will be way fewer. There is no "JORG versus post-JORG" comparison to make, unlike with the original FFVII and with DC. That's where most of the content stems from.

But we both already know that there are some differences and they are worthy of listing.

I know, just being an ass. =P

I can quickly round them up here.

CRISIS CORE VERSION DIFFERENCES
- Losing in optional missions.
Japanese: If Zack loses, you get a Game Over.
Localization: If Zack loses, you are brought back to the save point with all the battle spoils still intact. This makes grinding for the Minerva battle much easier, because you can steal 99 Phoenix Down and sell them repeatedly.

- Japanese: Genesis, Angeal and Lazard are given no surnames in the mails Zack receive.
Localization: Genesis, Angeal and Lazard are all given surnames in the mails Zack receive.
You touched this version difference in your article about their surnames

- The Goddess statue in the Banora Underground.
Japanese: Likeness to Virgin Mary.
Localization: Religious connotation removed by greatly changing the statue.

I still find the statue change to be weird.

Aside from this I've heard rumors that some bits are voiced in the English game but which are not voiced in the Japanese. I am yet to confirm this.

I don't think this is the case, but I may be remembering wrong.

 

[Shademp]

- Finally bothered to replace the old DC images in the Shera article with my own snapshot crops.

- The jukebox shops have a message on them.

Spoiler: NEMSOX

Some look like they are greek letters, such as ε (epsilon).
ηεΜςοχ

EDIT: Other suggestions/interpretations (by Dipsiel).
MEMBOX
NEMBOX

Given that the cutscene shows Vincent emerging from the engine room, that, presumably, is the "right way" to do it. I always found that an oddity and assumed it was a mistake in development.

I wonder if not visiting the engine room until after the scene with Shelke getting tired and falling asleep is what does it?

I speculated this as well. But no matter if you visited the engine room in the first or second Shera act, before talking to Shelke, I could not trigger the scene the early way. I tried so many ways but all I kept getting was the between-doors trigger.

 

[Shademp]

Revisited the final boss segment in Kalm (Hard Mode) for some revenge. Figured out my strategy. It's not perfect, but with full health from the start I'm far from needing health potions in this battle now.

You need to shoot the lower right "sub-wing" (the aircraft's left, your right) that looks damaged. Shoot it enough and the boss will expose its weak spot. Your main goal is to get to the other side of the area, behind an impermeable box right next to the bottom of the stairs. This box is the BEST one to hide behind. You will never be hit by missiles or fire from afar. When the boss flies up to you and tries to unleash hell, you won't receive too much damage. One possible way to avoid some damage is to transform when the aircraft has flied up to you. During the transformation you'll briefly be invulnerable.

Learning the box contents can be good. One has 500 gil and one has a Hi-Potion. There is also a hidden Mako Point. Try to stack up Handgun Bullets before the battle ends.

Now I just need to practice the middle-boss segment.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I believe that placard on the jukebox says "ITEM BOX."

 

[Strangelove]

Aside from this I've heard rumors that some bits are voiced in the English game but which are not voiced in the Japanese. I am yet to confirm this.

tres is remembering wrong on this one. for one (because it's the only one i know since i haven't watched much of the english version), there is this scene at the beginning:

in japanese, it's a text scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB8SGCd4P4Y

in english, it's voiced
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRqZKfa5P6g (9:00-ish)

there was also the addition of a hard mode, whereas the original japanese version only had one difficulty setting.

Localization: If Zack loses, you are brought back to the save point with all the battle spoils still intact.

monkey-fighting square enix

 

[Shademp]

Ok fine I admit it, I'm already playing Normal Mode in JORG again.

- Decided to play this mode without the auto-lock scope. I don't want to get used to the scope if I have to play Hard Mode again. Plus it's satisfying to have more precise aiming for critical hits available and in the end it will probably help to not have the 150 WT of the auto-lock scope.

- Holy crap the mid-boss segment in Kalm was satisfying. I managed to get a long-ass kill chain and I removed more than 1/3 of the Dragonfly's HP in a SINGLE SHOT, thus defeating it. The fact that I had already practiced helped, but there definitely was a lot of luck involved. When you get shot a kill chain is undone (usually). Often it is purely based on luck if a soldier lands a shot on you or not. You will often feel it's not your fault that you get hit (like when the screen is still loading but enemy fire is raining down upon you, GADS I hate that).

In a way...that's similar to J-RPG battles. You may have a good strategy but in the end the best outcome will only happen if the dice is in your favor and an enemy uses one attack instead of another, or if one misses etc.


- Now THAT is just evil! I transformed into Galian Beast right before you meet Shelke and Azul, because I wanted to try out Galian Beast against the soldier barrage. But in the next battle scene Galian Beast had reverted to Vincent. I lost all that MP for nothing!

- IT IS SO BLOODY SATISFYING TO KNOW WHERE ALL THE MEMORY CAPSULES ARE. The game has some bad design when it comes to the collecting of these capsules (especially in JORG where you don't have the sniper scope until you get to Edge, which means you can't zoom in on capsules) but it's like I've said before: Even when a game is bad or mediocre, mastering it can feel rewarding.

Now I tempsaved and I'm going to take care of other business, instead of letting Dirge of Cerberus control my life. Kinda like how when Vincent exits Lucrecia's cave at the very end and goes "BAI BEEAATCH CALL ME OR WHATEVER I DON'T CARE ANYMORE". Then again I may be remembering that scene a bit wrong.


EDIT: I have two theories for the difficulty mode that is displayed for the Event Viewer link.
#1 - The only difficulty mode written here is the first one you completed.
#2 - The mode written here is the one where you found the last memory capsule (and completed that playthrough).

It should be noted that my first time around, while I missed a few memory capsules, I went back to the Easy Mode sections and claimed the final ones. In Normal Mode and Hard Mode I had no remaining capsules. When the game was made, the designers *could* have been anticipating that the n00b player would be collecting capsules throughout all the difficulty modes and that they designed the Event Viewer link text accordingly.

I believe that placard on the jukebox says "ITEM BOX."

*facepalm* So effin' obvious in the end.

 

[Shademp]

- Tested out now in the first WRO stage to lure the bump-shield foes to me and only then explode the barrels. It worked! If I can only improve my speed for when defeating the normal DG soldiers first (so I don't get shot), this strategy can work quite nicely if you want to preserve MP.

- AGAIN. Transformed into Galian Beast BEFORE the encounter with Shelke, then when the battle began Vincent was back to normal. Don't transform before the battle or you'll needlessly lose MP! I wonder if this detail was changed post-JORG...
EDIT: In some cases I can sort of understand why Galian Beast is reset to Vincent. Like when a scripted scene (with Vincent in it) directly transition to the battle screen with nothing inbetween. This is the case with the Shelke battle. But in the Kalm example Galian Beast really should not be reset.


- Random thing I just remembered about Chaos Vincent. Post-JORG, if you use a Limit Breaker while in Chaos form, Chaos glows a bit. I have no idea if he is actually made stronger for a while or if anything is restored (the latter I honestly don't remember). In JORG, if you press L1+R1 while in Chaos form, nothing happens. L1+R1 is how you always transform into Galian Beast in that version. So JORG has no equivalent where Chaos will glow because you are trying to use the Galian Beast trigger.

EDIT: Didn't notice before today that in the Status menu, we see how much EXP Vincent has gained during the stage. So in this way there IS a way to measure in-game how much EXP an enemy gives. Just check the EXP, defeat an enemy and then check your EXP again. Yay!

 

[Shademp]

- Odd glitch. While on the Shera (first act) I decided to talk to Shelke, Reeve and Yuffie in that order. After skipping the Yuffie scene, I was brought to the bit where Cid mentions the ground assault (cue FMV). However the game didn't allow me to pause this brief scene where Cid speaks, so I could not skip it. =/ I've always been able to skip this scene.

Still only getting the "between doors" (trigger #1) scene trigger on the Shera. I should re-try if visiting the engine room early has an effect. Games are sensitive after all. Something might have interferred with a flag that says "already visited engine room". If not the engine room, then my guess is that the game counts how many doors you've passed through. The early trigger makes sense as a way to help players out who have been running around blind for a long time, unable to make the story progress.


- Usually when I play the Midgar section, there is one spot where two WRO soldiers always die. Not the beginning (that one is scripted and can't be prevented) but closer to the middle of the first Midgar stage. I run toward the soldiers, two barrels explode right next to the soldiers and they die. Vincent just isn't fast enough.

So for fun, this time around, I decided NOT to run to their rescue. When the game spawned the soldiers, I just let them stand and shoot. And they stood. And they shot. ...And they didn't die. While staying far away, I pre-emptively shot two machine gun soldiers on top of a tower. The WRO soldiers were still shooting at the targets in front of them. I managed to kill one DG soldier by shooting below the train that's in the way of me. The WRO soldiers ran away from the barrels they stood by...and lived. From what I can tell, they killed one normal DG soldier and one bazooka guy all by themselves. o___O

What shocked me more was that the barrels they stood by were NOT exploding barrels. They were a solid, different type of barrel. So the part with the barrels exploding when you run toward the soldiers must be part of some scripted event in the form of "If you ran past this point, the barrels will explode and the soldiers will die". I always thought that it was the bazooka guy who triggered the barrels.

I obviously need to re-check this scenario but it looks like the KEY to saving these soldiers is to NOT approach them. That's just...just...ARGH. Your instinct is to run to their aid, like you always do! Here the designers play a joke on the player. A bad joke! It's bad design! Oh I love having discovered a way to let the soldiers live because it's been bugging me for over a dozen playthroughs BUT COME ON. Bad designers! Bad!


- Finally learned that a certain soldier DOESN'T give huge amounts of EXP. At least under the condition that you immediately backtrack.

Spoiler: This one that you can find by backtracking.

He just stands there, alone, not related to anything else. It's...odd.


- I don't get this.

Spoiler: EXP screen, before levelling up

Spoiler: EXP screen, after levelling up

Out of 1861 EXP, only 1320 was spent. This remained true even after the next mission had begun. There is some EXP gain cap at play but I don't know how it's calculated.



- For some reason the soldier right before the first G Report did NOT act glitchy. He shot down the stairs instead of straight ahead. I guess the glitch I saw isn't a version difference.

- If you want to save the WRO soldiers from the four-legged robot, but know you don't have the strength or kill chain to do so, then just walk STRAIGHT AHEAD into the robot that will then explode. If you want to conserve HP (and you want to) then transform into Galian Beast and take the hit while in that form.


- Somehow Rosso crushed my spirit. The battle went bad, I got disappointed, and then it went worse than ever before. Restarted the segment and tempsaved. My decent mood is now ruined. I beat her in Hard Mode for f*ck sake and it went well that time.

 

[Shademp]

- The rematch with Rosso went decent. Not perfect, but I landed some satisfying headshots while she was busy showing why she's called "Rosso the Crimson". I'm halfway there with the strategy, I just need to replay the boss battle a couple of times to figure out the details.

- General aiming strategy for Guard Hounds, Sentry Bots, SOLDIER and other enemies that like to zigzag: Wait for them to get close to you, then run backwards while aiming. Once the enemy is "locked" onto you, they won't be zigzagging anymore. With this in mind I could kill a group of sentry bots (those small spinning things) without wasting magic on them. This assumes that your equipment is not too heavy and that Vincent is fast enough while aiming.

- The game sometimes make it so that it gives you an opportunity for kill chains before a boss fight. The easiest one has got to be before the two Black Widows (Shinra HQ level). Bugs will spawn. What I do in JORG is to wait until they are up close then use Thunder Lv2 on them (proximity seems to make the magic stronger). Kill chain! Use magic on two or three more bugs, counting up the chain. You now have a decent kill chain in preparation for the boss. The first Black Widow is all about being defeated quickly or else it will run into you, so landing that first, powerful "kill chain" shot helps.

More on that, the second Black Widow reminded me of a strategy that I forgot to test out on the Black Widow in Shinra Manor. When the widow drop bombs on the floor, let them be for a while. When the Black Widow readies to drop more bombs, shoot the boss so it's about to drop down from the ceiling. Now use Thunder to dispose of all the old bombs at once, getting a kill chain. Now when you shoot the Black Widow's weak spot with a kill chain to boot, you may even kill it in one shot!

A bit unsure about the details (I *think* that shooting the widow to drop it down resets the kill chain, which is why you should destroy the bombs second) but I will figure it out someday. Will test this strategy on the Black Widow in the Shinra Manor. If it works there, then an easy boss fight just became even easier.

Don't forget the bombs that the first Black Widow drops before the battle in Shinra Manor. Destroying all of those for a chain helps you get a better start in the boss battle that ensues. EDIT: I should upload a video showing myself kicking some Black Widow ass.

 

[Shademp]

- I noticed a "Materia Booster" item in JORG and first thought it didn't exist post-JORG. But now I checked the post-JORG store and it is indeed an accessory you can buy. Interesting that I never bought it before. The Materia Booster is never found in the actual stages (as far as I know). I always figured that Materia Floater strengthened magic, but...I guess that is reserved for the Materia Booster? The Materia Floater only increases the reach/width/explosiveness and stun abilities (Lv3 make enemies fly up in the air)?

EDIT: Just tested out the Materia Booster. It does the exact same thing as Materia Floater! It will raise a Materia level by one or by two. Same description as for Materia Floater. The Max Materia level is 3, so equipping both Materia Floater and Materia Booster won't (at least not visibly) increase the level beyond 3. =/ I guess that the Materia Booster is a way so you can simultaneously equip an accessory like the Sniper Scope (same accessory slot as the Materia Floater) instead of having to choose.



- The last level-up.
Level 10
EXP to spend: 2132
Next Level: 560
Total EXP: 2340

EXP spent...

Level 13
EXP to spend: 380
Next Level: 632
Total EXP: 4092

1752 EXP was spent out of 2132. I just don't get this. When you transfer EXP to money, every time the "EXP to spend" is set to zero.


- Now I tested the kill-chain strategy against the first Black Widow. It is not a reliable method, because there is no predicting exactly where the bombs will land or if the Black Widow will drop new bombs instead of climbing down. Better to stick to just shooting down the Black Widow and shooting its weak spot. The second Black Widow in the Shinra HQ stays in the ceiling, so the kill-chain strategy is more reliable there.


THE BOY WHO DID NOT LIVE
- You know what else is required to know everything about a game? Losing in scenarios that you normally never lose in. There was one or two Game Over scenarios in Ducktales Remastered that I mildly regret never checking out... Anyway, I decided to not protect the boy in Edge. The result?

Beast soldier grabs kid. Kid screams and yells repeatedly. Beast soldier moves around aimlessly at first. Then it goes for the lasers to the north. When the beast jumps over the lasers, it drops behind a key (or rather, what looks five keys attached to a ring). The beast is now invulnerable and runs off with the boy first straight ahead and then to the right. You pick up the keys and get a "Rusty Key".

Interesting that this item doesn't even have a number attached to it. Technically it should be "Rusty Keys", plural, based on what we picked up.

The keys won't work to the door where the Model Gun and the soldier with the cardkey is hiding. You still have to go the same path as when you save the boy. Only the beast soldiers will appear in this path, not the two other soldiers and the sniper. Of course once you get the cardkey, the game continues as normal and does not transition into a scene, because there is no scene to be had with the boy.

I have not checked if letting the boy be abducted leads to some ungodly sight later on when you get past the lasers, though I doubt anything is changed for later.

 

[Strangelove]

if it were being translated just based on the text without referencing the graphics, then since japanese doesn't normally use plurals unless to specify a number you could get 'key' or 'keys' from the original name (i don't know what it was in japanese but i'm guessing it was something like 錆びた&#37749

 

[Shademp]

@Hito

Yeah, that's my theory as well. Will check it out this weekend, probably.



Might as well copy-paste what I posted on my facebook page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8S92ki9AI8#t=45

In this scene from Dirge of Cerberus, Shelke uses a Shield materia in an unexpected way. First she seemingly slows down Arch Azul, who reverts from his transformation, and then she completely stops Azul in his tracks using the Shield materia. You may also notice that the Shield materia here is orange, probably to have it match with the glow of Shelke's eyes and EM sabers. In the original FFVII game the Shield materia is only used to add a powerful, but brief, barrier to the user.

Should a future FFVII title, be it a remake or something else, include a second spell for the Shield materia in order to accommodate for what is seen in DC? What do you think?

We might call the spell "DeShield", albeit at the risk of confusing it with DeBarrier. The base effect could be that all barriers are removed and that an enemy is stopped in their tracks. This can then be experimented with further. Might it be fitting to have the enemy's base physical and magical defense being ignored while under the DeShield effect? Could it be a good idea to have enemies that are immune to Stop but not immune to the "Stop" effect of DeShield? Obviously the MP consumption for this spell would be high, just like it is in the conventional "Shield" spell.

Other possible spell names: "Shield Chain", "Shield Stopper"

 

[Shademp]

Normal Mode in JORG cleared yet again. Five memory capsules missed. I thought I only missed one, but there ya go.

Event Viewer image link is (sadly) the same but at least now it's not locked at Easy Mode. If it is forever locked in Normal Mode now remains to be seen. I'm not holding out any hope that the Hard Mode image will be different.

Right now I feel like my DC cup is filled more than ever. Next weekend is the streaming event and I don't want to play any more DC until then, except to test beforehand that the stream works fine.


Here is the Japanese name and description for the rusty key(s).

Spoiler

 

[Strangelove]

huh, that's pretty different

エッジの鍵
エッジで出会った少年が持っていた鍵。

Edge key
Key that the boy [Vincent] met in Edge had.

nothing about it being rusty at all

 

[Shademp]

Discovery made during the DC stream:

- Chapter 8, near the Shrieks (or whatever they were called, the jet-pack boss enemies) you fight in a big area where a Deepground Commander has a visible lifebar. Defeat him to get the cardkey. If you don't defeat him, he will run around and summon more soldiers. This part was not new to me. In the first wave he summons big-sword soldiers and in the second wave he summons bazooka guys. During the stream, I discovered the THIRD wave: A small army of sentry bots. I think there were about 8-12 of them. Quickly disposed of them using Thunder. But that's not the amazing part. When they were defeated...they dropped Adjuster items! I picked up three or four Adjuster items. I either picked up two types, or all three (S, M & L).

This area is thusly a newly discovered HOT SPOT for Adjuster items. Never before have I gotten to pick up this many Adjusters in one single area. I love knowing about this third wave of enemies now. Next time I play this section, I will see if there are additional enemy waves that the commander can call forth. I happened to kill him this time together with the sentry bots.

 

[Shademp]

- On the "Remaining EXP to spend" mystery, I realized a simple theory. Whenever you reach a new level, the game calculates if the amount of EXP you have left will be enough to reach a new level. If not, the EXP stops being expended. We can test this, thanks to the Level-EXP chart in the DC Complete Guide (the equivalent of a DC Ultimania, minus the name 'Ultimania') on page 50...which ironically confirms that Vincent's max level is 50.

...YES! It matches up! The game is kind not to use up all the gathered EXP, in case it will be used next time for converting to gil. If all EXP was needlessly used up, even when it couldn't level you up, collecting gil would be harder.

All stats reach 100 only at Level 50. Before that they don't go above 99. Magic (INT) becomes much stronger much faster near the max levels.



- Potoin. The item that restores only 1 HP. Current wild theories about this item:

1) Holding down a specific button while using the item will restore a lot of HP. RESULT FROM TESTING: Negative.
2) Using the Potoin when Vincent has only 1 HP left will restore all of his HP. I do not know a good/easy way to fulfill the condition and get Vincent to exactly 1 HP. Would be easier if I had two Potoins, but I don't have that in this playthrough.
3) Holding down many buttons at a time while using the item will restore a lot of HP. WILL NOT TEST ALL THE COMBINATIONS.​

These are all WILD THEORIES based on nothing at all. I just feel...there has to be SOME secret trait to the Potoins. The item description doesn't help. "Restores a few HP...?"
I think the description is the same in the JP game.



- Looking in page 37 of my DC Complete Guide I noticed that the amount of MP expended from using magic differs depending on if you use Fire, Blizzard or Thunder. Keep in mind these numbers only applied to the JORG version:

FIRE
Level - MP Expended - Power Level (I think)

LV1 - 8MP - 200
LV2 - 11MP - 250
LV3 - 14MP - 300​

BLIZZARD
Level - MP Expended - Power Level

LV1 - 12MP - 450
LV2 - 16MP - 600
LV3 - 20MP - 750​

THUNDER
Level - MP Expended - Power Level

LV1 - 12MP - 200
LV2 - 15MP - 300
LV3 - 18MP - 400​

I noticed now that these differences in MP consumption also apply to the 1.1 build, though the exact amount consumed was changed.

Photo of Magic Chart info, plus close-up

I don't know what the other two columns stand for. Is it perhaps when a magic will stun and/or throw an enemy into the air? Hmm... I don't recall Thunder Lv1 knocking enemies over. =/

Fire: Fast projectile, BIG explosion. The big explosion is good for reaching around corners (only realized this now by looking at the guide). Least powerful.
Blizzard: Slow projectile, small explosion. Most powerful. Kind of explains the logic in JORG for why Blizzard is found last, as late as Chapter 8.
Thunder: Wide area, short reach. Medium in power.

I am surprised that I instantly found a spot where the differences in traits became useful. At the beginning of Chapter 11, you have to defeat soldiers who can only be hurt by magic (they stand on pipes so you can't reach them). If you use Fire, two shots will be needed (in this example). If you use Blizzard , one hit is enough. Less MP is expended by using Blizzard once instead of Fire twice. AN ACTUAL REASON TO EQUIP BLIZZARD! WOW!

So excited to test out Fire for reaching around corners. I know some places where that would fit perfectly! You REALLY have to think (or use a guide) to understand how to play this game in the best possible way. Without the guide I wouldn't have learned all the nuances of Fire vs Blizzard vs Thunder.



- Just fiddled with the controls. Remember the annoyance that, by default, you scroll through the item list by pressing Left but you use the item by pressing Right? I assumed the game would not offer you the change scroll to the right.

...Yeah you guessed it. There IS actually an unassigned function to scroll to the previous shortcut item. There is also an unassigned function to scroll to the previous weapon instead of the next one. The Directional Down button is not used for anything, so I assign the "Use Item" to that and now make use of the "to previous shortcut item" function.

Holy shit how retarded not to have my new setting as the default.



- ADDITIONAL EFFECTS noticed when using Limit Breaker while in Chaos form: Bullets are not expended and you shoot much faster! That, plus the damage counter will rack up higher numbers for each landed hit. Can't tell though if the actual damage, like that against the final boss, is increased. The numbers deceive you in DC. Either way, using up the Limit Breakers while fighting the final boss is worth your time. With 3x Limit Breakers the fight will end VERY quickly. The effect can be cancelled by pressing L1+R1 (just how you would end a transformation) but there's no reason for you to cancel it.

With Limit Breaker not existing in JORG, there is no corresponding effect. Pressing L1+R1, which is what you do to transform, does nothing. No flashy effect, infinite-bullets-for-a-moment or rapid fire effect.