Definitive and Absolute Power Tier List.

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Fair enough, in terms of raw destruction I can concede to that one. But see, this is why I didn't want to consider Jecht/Sin in the first place. I used Seymour :wackymonster:

His placement will always be toward the bottom, though, and he's less interesting (in terms of power level; in terms of characterization, he's toward the top).

Besides, with Garland having to come off the list and CoD and Exdeath sharing second place, I needed someone who could beef it out to 10 rankings. XD

Mako Eyes said:
Now that one I..completely agree with. Awesome. :monster:

Sweet. :monster:

Mako Eyes said:
She doesn't fight at all. She merely appears and floats over the heroes. That's not really any action at all.

We don't actually see Chaos do anything either, but when WoL awakens shortly after, Cosmos has been mortally wounded and says she lost to Chaos. That suggests a battle to me.

Mako Eyes said:
But..she's a lover not a fighter. I don't doubt she has power and stuff, but in terms of offensive combat? Not really. She seems to be the penultimate white mage, if anything.

White Mages use Holy. :monster:
 

Cannon_Fodder

Pro Adventurer
1. Ultimecia - Possessed God-like powers and was absorbing the entire universe into herself, becoming a singular existence
2. Cloud of Darkness and Neo Exdeath - Pretty much the same entity. Ranks up here for the reasons Cloud of Darkness was at the top of the previous list
3. Sephiroth (Advent Children) - Defied his world's Lifestream and bent the spirit of a planet to his will -- and was then going to use it as a cosmic gondola. Presumably possessed all the powers from before, but even more energy. He had become a god-like being (lowercase "g," unlike Ultimecia)
4. Kefka - Like Sephiroth, became a god-like being able to bend his world to his will. Possessed vast magical power
5. Jecht (as Braska's Final Aeon, summoned by Braska) - Able to beat Sin. No more need be said
6. Jecht (as Sin) - Able to scar the surface of a planet in an instant, and presumably split it open given time. Vast magical power
7. Emperor Mateus - Reasonably powerful demonic/angelic being who defied death and ruled both realms of the afterlife
8. Kuja - Decimated the surface of a planet in moments and destroyed a number of large structures in the process. Presumably could have made Alexander his bitch at this point
9. Jecht (as Braska's Final Aeon, sans Braska) - A summon
10. Golbez - Decent enough mage


Besides, with Garland having to come off the list and CoD and Exdeath sharing second place, I needed someone who could beef it out to 10 rankings. XD

I like the list, but do we really need to include Jecht three times? I know in each case its a unique and individual thing, but as Mako and MOG said, we're only considering the villains when they're in top form. Noble effort to pad the list out to ten, but I don't think its needed really.

I really hate that claim. For one, Kuja didn't decimate a planet at all. That's so ridiculous it hurts. If he literally blew up a planet, then Gaia itself would've been blown up too, since Terra literally is inside Gaia thanks to the failed fusion spell Garland and the Terran's enacted. Kuja merely destroyed the surface buildings and structures of Terra. Which is amazing, but not...Death Star amazing.

So much win for Star Wars reference :monster:
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Everyone is free to make a list of the villains at their 'normal' stage, but please keep that list separate from the full power stage.

Here are my thoughts.

1. Cloud of Darkness - She/it/whatever the hell it is seems to be a force of nature in itself more than it is an actual entity. In addition, given it's destructive abilities and powers over the Void (even if it's fundamentally different from ExDeath's), Cloud is at the top.

2. Exdeath - His abilities as a mage speaks for itself, but what really makes him powerful is his control over the Void. It definitely seems as if having control over the Void is a free pass for being strong as shit, and ExDeath delivers. Having a 'delete' button over existence itself is not to be trifled with.

3. Ultimecia - Powerful sorceress that can create life from inanimate objects and thoughts, and gained control over Time Compression, and almost managed to absorb existence within herself. I'm not sure, but it seems the only reason that Squall and co. were able to beat her is because they were fated to do so, because everyone else in her time period failed. Top level power, right there. Also, I still remain convinced to this day that Ultimecia wouldn't have gone crazy if she had some dick. Yeah, the game tries to sugarcoat it by saying 'Sorceresses go crazy if they don't have a knight', but I know what's really going on. She needed some dick.

4. Sephiroth - Extremely powerful will that allows him to cheat death, like a million times. Okay, more like one and a half or something, but STILL! He has an edge because he's as physically strong as he is magically, and he has control over a lot of Lifestream. While strong, though, he doesn't have reality busting game breaking abilities like controlling time and space, which keeps him from the top.

5. Kefka - Absorbed the power of three deities and became one himself, and not only that, he ruled and became the sole god of a fundamental aspect of his universe, magic. Able to erect a tower onto the planet and was the sole element keeping the world and the state of the world shitty. Terra's freakish power is the only reason why everyone didn't get Light of Judgemented into paste.

6. Garland - This is assuming that he's not Chaos, of course. This guy seems to be pretty strong, given his abilities. I don't know too much about his power in human form, though!

7. Emperor Mateus - Motherfucker took over hell. And heaven. Also he controlled a worldwide Cyclone that pretty much destroyed anything he wanted to. He shares a similarity with Kefka in being that his human form is relatively very weak compared to what he becomes.

8. Kuja - While he didn't ANNIHILATE Terra, he fucked it up pretty bad. Has almost a primal, superaggressive magic ability that's like juggling with nukes. While I believe that Kuja has more unchecked power than the Emperor, he does lose some points for dropping dead.

9. Golbez - I like Golbez a lot, but he seems to be just a good mage. While he's very good at what he does, he doesn't have that extra ommph to keep him in the game above everyone else.

Also, I'm having major trouble on where I should put Jecht. Help!
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
The only reason Kuja ranks higher than Mateus in my ranking is because the planetbusting of Terra, and rending a hole into the collective unconscious of all reality, done singlehandedly, still strikes me as more impressive a feat than singlehandedly conquering hell, though not by much.
Were I not ranking by raw output and instead by another factor, Kuja would be down below a lot of other folks. Ulti would also drop as well. She's extremely powerful, but actually rather sucks at scheming.

Addendum: By planetbust I mean BDZ scale event, not a Superlaser Pew type event.

Not all planetbusts are created equal, and Kefka's is spiffy too, but not complete. It's a power demonstrated/ time demonstrated in thing.
 
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Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Everyone is free to make a list of the villains at their 'normal' stage, but please keep that list separate from the full power stage.

Here are my thoughts.

1. Cloud of Darkness - She/it/whatever the hell it is seems to be a force of nature in itself more than it is an actual entity. In addition, given it's destructive abilities and powers over the Void (even if it's fundamentally different from ExDeath's), Cloud is at the top.

2. Exdeath - His abilities as a mage speaks for itself, but what really makes him powerful is his control over the Void. It definitely seems as if having control over the Void is a free pass for being strong as shit, and ExDeath delivers. Having a 'delete' button over existence itself is not to be trifled with.

I'm just curious...why do people put Cloud of Darkness above ExDeath?

Sure they're similar, but ExDeath not only threatened FFV's world, he threatend all dimensions.

One thing that's not taken into consideration, is that ExDeath literally ripped open the dimension of FFV, revealing the Interdimensional Rift, which we know links to the other dimensions of Final Fantasy. If ExDeath had his way, he could've just crept around, absorbing any world he so choosed as Neo-ExDeath and sent it to the Void as well. In fact, that's what he says he's going to do.

Cloud of Darkness was strong, but she wasn't a dimensional threat like Neo-ExDeath was.

Also, I still remain convinced to this day that Ultimecia wouldn't have gone crazy if she had some dick. Yeah, the game tries to sugarcoat it by saying 'Sorceresses go crazy if they don't have a knight', but I know what's really going on. She needed some dick.

Oh my god..LOLOL. Dude..you did not...Roffle.

Honestly, I think the reason she went bad, was because..she was bad. Power corrupts. And she already was a bitter Betty in the first place. I mean, she says it herself. What she wants, is to be the center of everything. Worshipped, revered, and a goddess.

4. Sephiroth - Extremely powerful will that allows him to cheat death, like a million times. Okay, more like one and a half or something, but STILL! He has an edge because he's as physically strong as he is magically, and he has control over a lot of Lifestream. While strong, though, he doesn't have reality busting game breaking abilities like controlling time and space, which keeps him from the top.

Don't know why this somehow makes him superior to Emperor Mateus, but ok.


7. Emperor Mateus - Motherfucker took over hell. And heaven. Also he controlled a worldwide Cyclone that pretty much destroyed anything he wanted to. He shares a similarity with Kefka in being that his human form is relatively very weak compared to what he becomes.

I disagree with this one completely. He more than earns the right to be in the fourth slot. Then Sephiroth, then Kefka, and etc etc.

8. Kuja - While he didn't ANNIHILATE Terra, he fucked it up pretty bad. Has almost a primal, superaggressive magic ability that's like juggling with nukes. While I believe that Kuja has more unchecked power than the Emperor, he does lose some points for dropping dead.

He has more unchecked power thanks to absorbing all those souls from the Invincible FYI :awesomonster:

9. Golbez - I like Golbez a lot, but he seems to be just a good mage. While he's very good at what he does, he doesn't have that extra ommph to keep him in the game above everyone else.

Also, I'm having major trouble on where I should put Jecht. Help!

Golbez ain't a villain! I don't know why we must include him here. Put Zeromus instead!

As for Jecht, if we're going to look at Jecht's Final Aeon/Dissidia appearance, I'd say he would then go in say...the 6th spot maybe.

Cloud of Darkness, ExDeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Jecht, Garland (who you've nerfed by removing the Chaos equation since they *are* one), Emperor Mateus (way too low), Kuja, and Golbez.

Ryushikaze said:
The only reason Kuja ranks higher than Mateus in my ranking is because the planetbusting of Terra, and rending a hole into the collective unconscious of all reality, done singlehandedly, still strikes me as more impressive a feat than singlehandedly conquering hell, though not by much.
Were I not ranking by raw output and instead by another factor, Kuja would be down below a lot of other folks. Ulti would also drop as well. She's extremely powerful, but actually rather sucks at scheming.

He didn't planet bust Terra :rage:

If he literally did that, then Gaia would've been damaged as well. Terra is literally inside Gaia, thus if you blew up the entirety of the planet of Terra, then Gaia's going to be fucked up too.

The reason he was able to create Memoria was because in his destruction of Terra, and the disruption in the cycle of souls, Kuja found his way to the center of Gaia's crystal. With that, he was able to tap into the thousands of years of memories within, and find the source of all memories, which led to Memoria's creation and the path to the master crystal.

And Ultimecia sucks at scheming? Really?
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
I'm just curious...why do people put Cloud of Darkness above ExDeath?

I ranked her above ExDeath because she seems to be a fundamental force of nature, an embodiment of the Void itself while ExDeath is 'just' (and of course I say that loosely) an entity. Who's stronger, someone who kills people or Death himself? I could be mistaken on CoD's nature, though.

Oh my god..LOLOL. Dude..you did not...Roffle.

Honestly, I think the reason she went bad, was because..she was bad. Power corrupts. And she already was a bitter Betty in the first place. I mean, she says it herself. What she wants, is to be the center of everything. Worshipped, revered, and a goddess

Of course, but that had to come from somewhere. I'm mostly joking, but I think I could be on to something here given the game's theme of Sorceress Knights and in the case of Rinoa and Edea, they're usually romantically linked to them.

Don't know why this somehow makes him superior to Emperor Mateus, but ok.

I disagree with this one completely. He more than earns the right to be in the fourth slot. Then Sephiroth, then Kefka, and etc etc.

I'm open to switch them around, but let's get down to brass tacks; how powerful do you have to be to take over heaven and hell? Granted, strong as shit, but do you think Mateus would win a one on one fight with Sephiroth or all of the other villains he's ranked above?

Golbez ain't a villain! I don't know why we must include him here. Put Zeromus instead

Villain...antagonist, yadda yadda! Just for the sake of argument, remember? And I would put Zeromus, but we don't really see him do anything.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I ranked her above ExDeath because she seems to be a fundamental force of nature, an embodiment of the Void itself while ExDeath is 'just' (and of course I say that loosely) an entity. Who's stronger, someone who kills people or Death himself? I could be mistaken on CoD's nature, though.

That's true, but again, ExDeath's power and threat arguably surpassed hers. But Cloud of Darkness does seem to be a force of nature that exists as the anti-thesis of life and bringer of destruction.



Of course, but that had to come from somewhere. I'm mostly joking, but I think I could be on to something here given the game's theme of Sorceress Knights and in the case of Rinoa and Edea, they're usually romantically linked to them.

True, but in the end..could anyone really tolerate and love someone as capricious, selfish, vain, and sadistic like her? :monster:



I'm open to switch them around, but let's get down to brass tacks; how powerful do you have to be to take over heaven and hell? Granted, strong as shit, but do you think Mateus would win a one on one fight with Sephiroth or all of the other villains he's ranked above?

Well considering Hell would be filled with a shitload of demons, evil spirits, and the like, and he literally just died, and somehow made himself king of the hill, of all the evilness and darkness of Hell itself...what does that tell you about his soul and power? A fucking man, cast into Hell, comes back....and rules over Hell itself. The power, ambition, and blackness of a soul like that is not something you sneeze at. There's something infernal and powerful about an individual who would do that in a story.

Likewise, his soul splitting in two, and the other half taking over HEAVEN TOO, is just...almost blasphemous in its outcome. :monster:

Emperor Mateus is as enduring, if not moreso, as Sephiroth. He was rejecting the natural order and bending existence to his will while Sephy-poo was in diapers.

Yes, I do think Emperor Mateus would be able to beat Sephiroth in a fight if it came down to it. It'd be close but I think he'd be more than capable of beating him.

Villain...antagonist, yadda yadda! Just for the sake of argument, remember? And I would put Zeromus, but we don't really see him do anything.

Yeah, I see your point. Zeromus sadly didn't get to do much outside of the Lunar Subterrane, but even then, he seemed pretty powerful.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
That's true, but again, ExDeath's power and threat arguably surpassed hers. But Cloud of Darkness does seem to be a force of nature that exists as the anti-thesis of life and bringer of destruction.

Too bad CoD didn't really get much exposition. It's hard to measure!

True, but in the end..could anyone really tolerate and love someone as capricious, selfish, vain, and sadistic like her?

True, but was she always that way? The tragedy of her character is that the game implies that the world made her that way.


Well considering Hell would be filled with a shitload of demons, evil spirits, and the like, and he literally just died, and somehow made himself king of the hill, of all the evilness and darkness of Hell itself...what does that tell you about his soul and power? A fucking man, cast into Hell, comes back....and rules over Hell itself. The power, ambition, and blackness of a soul like that is not something you sneeze at. There's something infernal and powerful about an individual who would do that in a story.

Likewise, his soul splitting in two, and the other half taking over HEAVEN TOO, is just...almost blasphemous in its outcome.

Emperor Mateus is as enduring, if not moreso, as Sephiroth. He was rejecting the natural order and bending existence to his will while Sephy-poo was in diapers.

This is true, but it's also dangerous logic because it assumes that the only way to measure power that's above his is if someone could also take over Hell/do some crazy feat from the dead, and we know that's not the case, since ExDeath and a few others are stronger than him, yet stay dead. While taking over hell (and heaven) is quite a feat, it's not the only measure of power.

Yes, I do think Emperor Mateus would be able to beat Sephiroth in a fight if it came down to it. It'd be close but I think he'd be more than capable of beating him.

That would be an interesting fight!
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I see your point, and I agree that its not the only measure of power. However, Emperor Mateus has been shown to be able to manipulate the weather and create cyclones enough to level cities and towns, raise Hell to the surface of the living world, and all sorts of magical feats that would make him more than a match for a lot of villains.

And really, if we're going by what Hell is thematically and religiously, for a mere mortal soul to even withstand it, and you know..not just get anally raped by pineapple wielding demons, anr to even..conquer it..that says something pretty telling about how evil and powerful that guy is. And the demons of Hell in Pandemonium are no walk in the park. Astaroth? Beelzebub? Those were some nasty looking and powerful demons.

But that aside, he still did some powerful things in FFII.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
True, but was she always that way? The tragedy of her character is that the game implies that the world made her that way.

How come I have no trouble imagining Seifer as an Oedipus Rex? :\

Just because I'm bored and am trying to avoid papers, I'll try to take a stab at the heroes since not many have. Note, I haven't played FFII or FFV, and never finished FFI so I'm drawing alot from Dissidia/what's already been said in this thread.


1. Terra
There was really no other choice for the #1 spot. As a human/esper hybrid, her magic ability is almost godlike. She can literally a small militia of men in mere minutes, something I have trouble the rest of the cast would be able to do. Plus, that is without even refining her abilities.

2. Zidane
Admittedly, I'm putting Zidane here due to his powered-up strength. If Kuja could so effortlessly destroy whole cities in a single magical outburst, Zidane could comparatively do much more damage. I have no doubt imagining that he could probably reach DBZ levels of power. In terms of potential, I think he's the only other hero to rival Terra.

3. Warrior of Light
I put WoL here because in terms of his depiction in Dissidia, it just seems... he should be rated high? Also, his origins seem to indicate that he is more than just a mere human. I have the impression that he not only weilds the lights power and fights on its behalf - but he may even have been born out of the light. Can't say this for sure as I haven't finished the game, but his entity is just really freaking intimidating and I think out of all the heroes, he "exudes" the greatest power :monster:

4. Cloud
A skilled fighter who wields a massive sword. He's an incredibley strong and fast and can do extreme damage with his masterful swordsmanship. He's pretty much the superman of FF. While Cloud's scope does is not on par with the above three, his sheer strength alone greatly exceeds those of an average person. I'd describe him as a "superhuman" fighter, while the above three are closer to mystical/godly power.

5. Cecil
He is able to balance the light and the darkness, and was the most deadly knight in all his kingdom's history.In fact, in terms of fighting competency, I think he's probably on par with Cloud. I ranked him below Cloud because Cecil is by all means an averge human, but I think if it did come to a showdown, Cecil has more than a fair chance at beating Cloud down. It's kind of hard to say. I could easily tie them for the 4th spot.

6. Squall
Pretty much Cecil's predecessor in the fact that he's a normal human that deligently trained himself to his peak. I can definitely see Squall having similar military praise as Cecil after a few more years of training. I think he's only a hair away from Cecil+Cloud in strength, but unfortunately his potential is limited to normal human status. He isn't pumped up on makoroids and doesn't have this innate ability to wield abstract magical forces.

7. Firion
Haven't played FFII, but from what I can tell, he's a classically trained fighter like Squall and his versatility with weapons gives him extreme range in battle. He also gives the impression of being able to take advantage of his surroundings. Power-wise, he's probably not too different from Squall, but Squall is ranked higher because of years of refinement he's had in fighting.

8. Onion Knight
While I think I maybe giving him a little too much credit, it somehow didn't feel right placing Tidus and Bartz above him. He's pretty balanced in speed, magic and physical attacks - this gives him versatility. He's similar to WoL in that he is a Warrior of Light (in the original FF3) but Dissidia presents their power in entirely different manners. OK is more of a magic-based knight, but I don't find anything too above human about him. He's able to go toe-to-toe with all these Godlike villains as just a kid? Imagine what he could do when he's older! As is, I find him to be the most awkward character to place.

9. Bartz
I feel bad for placing this guy so low. I haven't played FF5, but from the posts here ExDeath seems... really fucking crazy powerful. I assume, unless the ending is a total downer, that Bartz and co. were able to take him down. However, I couldn't put him above the other characters because he doesn't seem to have the same fighting background with the other characters. His special mime ability puts him on par with anyone he comes to battle with, and this ability is definitely more impressive than Tidus' abilities. His spot is easily interchangable w/ OK. I think I could pretty much tie them like I tied Cecil and Cloud?

10. Tidus
Unfortunately, I couldn't help but put Tidus down at the bottom. But just because he's last doesn't mean he still can't kick ass. He's easily the fastest character of the group. I put him at the bottom because he's the only character that starts the game with pretty much no prior fighting experience/ability. His athletic skill does give him a firm basis to be a good fighter, so that still pretty much makes him better than you :monster:

My general ranking scheme pretty much goes from: borderinf demi-gods --> superhuman --> normal humans at peak strength --> reluctant/untrained warriors. I am also working on the basis that magical strength>physical abilities. I did however disregard that with Cloud and Cecil, just because Cloud is just that crazy-strong..
 

SOLDIERis1337

Pro Adventurer
I don't know why people are under the impression that Trance Zidane is or will be more powerful than Trance Kuja. Keep in mind that when Garland made the genomes to be "angels of death" it was never to be in a literal sense, but rather they were meant to spread war as Kuja does with Queen Brahne. Kuja's Trance was special, he needed all the souls of the Invincible to achieve planet glassing power, without that exterior source he would have never achieved that level. He even states outright in the game that a "regular trance" wasn't good enough for his purposes.

When Garland was saying that Zidane was meant to replace Kuja and would eventually surpass him, he had no idea that Kuja had made his own special hyper trance. Without some kind of similar power up, Zidane will never become the power house that Trance Kuja was.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
But Garland obviously had to have power in mind if he created Zidane to be a step up from Kuja. Why downgrade? However, that's a good point with Kuja's Trance, it wasn't under his own power (it's still his power nontheless, just like with Kefka and ExDeath etc etc), but at least using logic Zidane has the potential to be as strong/stronger than Kuja before Trance, which was still pretty strong.

7. Firion
Haven't played FFII, but from what I can tell, he's a classically trained fighter like Squall and his versatility with weapons gives him extreme range in battle.

Excellent list, but small correct, Firon wasn't classically trained. In fact, Firon and his friends almost got beat to death in the first two minutes of FFII. He gained his talent throughout the game.
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
He didn't planet bust Terra :rage:

If he literally did that, then Gaia would've been damaged as well. Terra is literally inside Gaia, thus if you blew up the entirety of the planet of Terra, then Gaia's going to be fucked up too.

me said:
Addendum: By planetbust I mean BDZ scale event, not a Superlaser Pew type event.

At the very least, the man systematically levelled at minimum an entire city, in a matter of minutes, with no outside aid. That's some serious wattage.

The reason he was able to create Memoria was because in his destruction of Terra, and the disruption in the cycle of souls, Kuja found his way to the center of Gaia's crystal. With that, he was able to tap into the thousands of years of memories within, and find the source of all memories, which led to Memoria's creation and the path to the master crystal.

Which is still impressive in its own right.

And Ultimecia sucks at scheming? Really?

Yes, actually. She's pretty blunt and direct in her plans, and she bungles it up on more than one occasion. Not the least of which is ensuring her own demise via her master plan.
It's a delicious irony that if Ultimecia had the sense to not try her master plan to avoid being killed, she would not have been killed. The tragedy is that she couldn't not.
 

SOLDIERis1337

Pro Adventurer
But Garland obviously had to have power in mind if he created Zidane to be a step up from Kuja. Why downgrade? However, that's a good point with Kuja's Trance, it wasn't under his own power (it's still his power nontheless, just like with Kefka and ExDeath etc etc), but at least using logic Zidane has the potential to be as strong/stronger than Kuja before Trance, which was still pretty strong.

Exactly, Zidane will eventually surpass base Kuja's power level, but since Kuja's Trance was not a natural occurrence there is nothing to suggest Zidane will surpass that level.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Yeah, I have no clue why people keep thinking somehow Zidane is going to be anything close to Trance Kuja in FFIX. Garland was only speaking of his genetic and physical superiority since Zidane could trance and gain knowledge and experience on his own as a living being. Something Kuja couldn't do at all.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Yeah, I have no clue why people keep thinking somehow Zidane is going to be anything close to Trance Kuja in FFIX.

Well no, because Trance Kuja kinda cheated.

Garland was only speaking of his genetic and physical superiority since Zidane could trance and gain knowledge and experience on his own as a living being. Something Kuja couldn't do at all.

He couldn't? I just thought he didn't, or rather, skipped that step entirely. Where does it say he couldn't?
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
He couldn't? I just thought he didn't, or rather, skipped that step entirely. Where does it say he couldn't?

If he could trance on his own power, why would he self induce a trance, and state he finally acquired the power? The game doesn't outright state it, but it alludes to it pretty clearly.

Kuja: How can that-That moogle went into a Trance!?

Zidane: Kuja!

Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a
complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to
protect another!

Zidane: Man, you're really goin' off! Hello!?

Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is
not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there! Hahahaha!!

Furthermore, the FFIX Ultimania states Zidane was the only genome capable of going into Trance.

Zidane and Kuja
Zidane was created differently from Kuja, beginning life as a child and being a Genome furnished with the ability to Trance. Originating as a child and having to go through learning and growth, he’d be different, holding an abundance of emotions, providing him with the Trance ability and making him altogether superior to Kuja.

Zidane’s existence and theft of Garland’s attention was unbearable to Kuja, so he abandoned him on Gaia. For this action, Garland banished Kuja from traveling to and from Terra.

Garland had needed a soul of that magnitude.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Whoa. That's pretty awesome! I didn't know that!

Thanks for crackin' that egg of knowledge, Mako. Really sweet stuff.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
No prob. That's what Garland was talking about in terms of Zidane being superior to Kuja. Zidane can Trance, gain experiences in life, emotions, etc, that allow him to be a stronger fighter, than the artificially created life form Kuja, who's pretty static and artificial. Zidane is for all intents and purposes, more "alive" than him. Kuja never grew up.
 

Deus

Banned
1. The villains and the heroes both have their own separate lists. At least for now. This way, this gets rid of all WHO'S STRONGER CLOD OR SEFIROTH arguments at least until we organize both heroes/villains somewhat. Maybe we could actually get into that later into the topic, but for now, let's keep them separate.

Can we do this now...? Because I really think 8 makes it clear Seifer is stronger than Squall. .>> Of course Squall has the benefit of Dissidifying to uber up his speed and whatnot but logic would dictate he didn't go from zero to Anime-fu and thus Seifer at least has to be in have the same wank as everyone else in Dissidia.

But on topic...

Tier 0:
Chaos. God of Evil so you can't really top him when it comes to evil.

Tier 1:
Ex-Death: Can't the Void destroy...everything? And he is swallowed up and becomes one with it. Ultimecia, to achieve TC, had to use Ellone.

Ultimecia: Help or no she was sill gonna destroy all time and space. Not bad.

The Emperor: Something has to be said for a guy who can conquer Heaven and Hell. I'm sure they weren't Biblical power level Heaven and Hell....probably more like Preacherverse Heaven and Hell but not bad.

Tier 2:
Kuja: Anyone below him destroyed a planet in moments? Nope? He goes here.

Kefka: Can re-arrange continents... The level of force necessary to do this is quite insane and if he directd that elvel of power at anyone below him, hell if he used it on Kuja even, they should be smushed to paste.

echt/Sin: Um, are we counting Sin here? Or just Braska's Final Aeon? If we allow Sin then Sin's insane gravity powers that was effecting stuff in space is well...insane. Plus the giant barrier of disintegration is a neat bonus.


Tier 3:
Sephiroth: Fast and strong...can probably destroy a few cityblocks with his power but he has nowhere near the mimmediate power of those above him. With preparation (and success) he may have gone higher but woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't.
Golbez: He doesn't seem to have the destructive power of anyone above this...

And I dunno about CoD.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
How the hell is it ever shown Seifer is stronger than Squall?

And ffs, Kuja didn't destroy a planet. We've been through this already. If he had truly blown up the entire planet of Terra, Gaia would've collapsed, since Terra was inside of Gaia.

And roffl at Sephiroth only being able to destroy city blocks.
 

SOLDIERis1337

Pro Adventurer
While it is true that Kuja didn't blow up Terra, rather he glassed it's surface, I'd still say he destroyed it. The definition of to destroy is to render unusable, and I'd say scorching every square inch of a planet makes it pretty useless. What Kuja did to Terra is like what the Covenant in Halo did to Reach, they didn't blow it up but they sure as hell destroyed it.
 

Deus

Banned
How the hell is it ever shown Seifer is stronger than Squall?

Well the basic fact Squall only actually takes on Seifer when he has two people backing him up.

Then there's the comparison of how they deal with Odin


I don't consider it gameplay mechanics since Odin does literally nothing in this fight and we know he can do Zantetsuken so it's not a gameplay mechanics move.
Fact is Odin plays with Squall and his entire party and if he so chooses, he can kill them all with his move.

The same move that Seifer countered:


Seifer was also able to endure a hit froM Gilgamesh; the same one who can destroy armies single-handed...er, well, you know what I mean.

And ffs, Kuja didn't destroy a planet. We've been through this already. If he had truly blown up the entire planet of Terra, Gaia would've collapsed, since Terra was inside of Gaia.

I never said he blew up Terra; just destroyed it. He BDZ'ed it ala an Imperial Star Destroyer (wrecked the surface).

And roffl at Sephiroth only being able to destroy city blocks.

Sadly that's all he can do. He never achieved anything close to his desired level of power and I was being generous by giving him cityblock level destructive power. He literally has no feats beyond Skyscraperbusting.

The level of power to destroy the surface of a planet or to move a continent is far greater than Sephiroth's shown levels of power. I realize he was toying around in AC but at the same time you have to use what you're shown. Nothing Sephiroth did or was said to be able to do alluded to him having those levels of power.
 

Cat Rage Room

Great Old One
AKA
Mog
Sadly that's all he can do. He never achieved anything close to his desired level of power and I was being generous by giving him cityblock level destructive power. He literally has no feats beyond Skyscraperbusting.

The level of power to destroy the surface of a planet or to move a continent is far greater than Sephiroth's shown levels of power. I realize he was toying around in AC but at the same time you have to use what you're shown. Nothing Sephiroth did or was said to be able to do alluded to him having those levels of power.

Uh, Supernova? Sure, the planet blowing up part is hyperbole, but I'd consider more than a city block.
 
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