Do You Think We Will See Something This Year?

[Makoeyes987]

Given what Nomura stated, KH4 isn't far and it definitely shouldn't be further along than part 2 since they said that they started developing Part 2 somewhere around 2020. I'd feel kinda salty if KH4 was getting more attention, ngl.

I think they just wanted to show something for KH's anniversary, and it's been far longer between real releases in regards to KH3 to now, versus FFVII-R to now.

 

[Odysseus]

I guess I just feel that way because we didn't know they were doing KH4 until it was revealed basically. We've know work was being done on Part 2 since before Remake 1 came out.

 

[Tetsujin]

Nomura also said KHIV was revealed early to prevent leaks. I remember the early reveal of Remake back in 2015 was partially because of that too.
With future Remake parts there isn't really a surprise so they can just chill I guess

(even though I'd argue that the inevitable existence of KHIV is also a no-brainer and while surprise reveals can be fun, the games industry in general is obssessed with them and secrecy like no other and it's a bit obnoxious)

 

[Odysseus]

Leaks you say

I do feel like December is a bit too pessimistic of an estimate. Or at least I hope Square is consistent in showing trailers for these series in their anniversary year at least lol. They know people are getting antsy, anyway.

 

[Theozilla]

Since the remaining big SE release this year seems to be Forespoken, and with FFXVI being in 2023 and likely pushing FFVIIR into 2024 and FFXIV's 7.0 expansion likely also releasing in 2024, I wonder where KH4 and DQ12 will fit for their release windows?

This is my current best going-with-my-gut guess for the next few years
2022: Forespoken October
2023: FFXVI Summer
2024: FFXIV 7.0 late spring/early summer, FFVR Part 2 Fall
2025: Dragon Quest 12 first quarter
2026: KH4 Spring
2027: FFXIV 8.0 first quarter (or maybe December of 2026) *also wonder if this expansion will be the first to not support the PS4 anymore?

Then there's plenty of medium/double AA to small (not mobile) sized games SE is also still working on: new Star Ocean, Valkyrie Elysium, The Diofield Chronicle, Front Mission 2 remake, Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake (and more HD 2.5 remakes if successful IIRC), Dragon Quest Treasures, some Nier/Yoko Taro game presumably, and if the rumors are true a Final Fantasy 9 Remake (though probably not quite as big as the FFVII Remake, but maybe triple AAA sized?)

 

[Makoeyes987]

Yeah, KH4 is 2025 or 2026, lol

Like, KH titles take especially longer to develop because of all the IPs they gotta go through, Disney's executive meddling, and all of the new gimmicks Nomura has to design in terms of gameplay. I don't see KH4 releasing before FFVII-R Part 2, but I do see it coming before FFVII-R Part 3.

You also forgot Verum Rex.

That's getting it's own real game too!

 

[Roundhouse]

Part 2 is sounding like it's a 2024 release at the earliest.

My prediction that remake will end around 2030 is looking good...

 

[Makoeyes987]

I thought you said 2040 before

 

[jeangl123]

Round told me 2050

 

[OWA-2]

Something else I'm curious about, is Ever Crisis. Because with Remake 2 coming out only in 2024, there will be a lot of time for Ever Crisis. So, will EC end up spoiling some stuff of Remake 2? I hope not.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I doubt it, because again, it's chapter based. They're going to stagger release each chapter of each title across time, like monthly or by monthly.

It's a gacha game, and it'll be spreading itself out over time. I doubt the storyline chapters and such will be the only content the game showcases.

 

[Odysseus]

Ever Crisis will be far more 1 to 1 than Remake will be story-wise, so the most I can see it spoiling is future designs for enemies and characters, assuming those still match the Remake as the first trailer showed.

 

[Theozilla]

Also is Ever Crisis just doing OG/Remake chapters first, or will like ever Compilation entry get a Chapter 1 chapter before anything moves on to Chapter 2? Because that can make things progress a lot slower for any single entry. Or has nothing been clarified yet?

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's not been clarified yet. We don't know very much at all

 

[Odysseus]

Hopefully at least that much will change this month

 

[Ryeleigh]

With my brief experience with BLEACH Brave Souls, I'm wondering if Ever Crisis will be something similar? It's a gacha game, chapter based reliving of the original story, and apparently has AU stories too (never got this far myself but I did see screenshots). Oh wow, it was apparently released in 2015 in Japan.

Also, I'm sorry for getting back to a topic that everyone already rehashed but I'm curious about something. Not sure I can word it well, though.

So... there seem to be two lines of thought. One seems to be that Remake is just the original game expanded and with compilation references so it'll lead more smoothly to the compilation? Essentially like this:

BC → CC → OG/Remake → ACC → DC? (Sorry if I missed a title.)

While the other line of thought seems to be like this:

BC → CC → OG → ACC → DC → Remake?

But if it's the latter, it's somehow making the compilation obsolete or erasing it? Even though Remake would basically be the final title of the compilation and it wouldn't exist without it?

But if it's the former, and Remake is just the OG extended, then wouldn't it basically make the OG obsolete or erase it? So the devs don't want to erase their old titles or the compilation, but they'd be fine essentially erasing the OG, the title that made the compilation possible in the first place? If the Remake is the final title to the compilation instead of "OG extended", wouldn't it allow the devs to keep the OG and have a remake too?

I mean... I just don't quite get why Remake being a sequel to the entire compilation is somehow the same as erasing that compilation? Or well, that was my understanding of the contention.

 

[Roundhouse]

Remake is definitely at least partly a sequel, and I don't think that erases the compilation at all -- if anything it depends on it to an extent.

 

[ForceStealer]

Sephiroth and Aerith's apparent foreknowledge certainly gives it an element of 'sequelness', but I genuinely don't know how they intend to run with that. Obviously I hope it's more like Ryeleigh's Option 1 with just elements of self-awareness like it seemed for most of part 1.

And yeah, that "datamined leak" definitely stinks even without Mako's evidence based purely on the complete lack of knowledge they had about Yuffie's DLC while somehow having data from a completely different game, and its complete lack of attention in the wider gaming/FF space.

 

[Ryeleigh]

@Roundhouse

Right? That's what I'm getting too.

Another regular argument that I don't quite get is that ACC hasn't happened yet within Remake just because Cloud and the others aren't aware of it or the audience hasn't seen it.

But Croceo, Viridi and Rubrum are Yazoo, Loz and Kadaj, right? This is a fact? So effectively ACC has already happened otherwise they wouldn't exist in Remake to "protect the future that gave shape to them"? Besides, the Whispers exist across all time and space, right? So even in that regard everything that has happened has already happened because otherwise the Whispers wouldn't exist to enforce it?

 

[ForceStealer]

Presumably the time dementors exist outside the timeline and therefore can 'see' all of it. So elements from the future playing a role in a singularity doesn't specifically means the remake happens after them in a linear sense.

 

[Makoeyes987]

A singularity literally exists as a crossroads of spacetime. Past, present and future can occur and exist simultaneously.

But if it's the latter, it's somehow making the compilation obsolete or erasing it? Even though Remake would basically be the final title of the compilation and it wouldn't exist without it?

You missed my point and a specific context of the Remake entirely. The story of FFVII-R exists and takes place within the year 007. That's the present, regardless of how one declares FFVII-R as "the final title of the compilation" or a "sequel." And once it's changed, it changes the history of the "future" and creates a new "timeline" precisely because events change the future that will thread from it. That's not a "good" thing, in a Watsonian sense. And I'd argue a Doylistic one

The previous "future" will cease to be, because the "present" that created it will have been changed. That's literally what the Arbiters of Fate are working to protect/prevent. Simply read their assess info. Those Whispers, souls from the Planet's future, are beings tasked with guarding their future existence.

So yes, in a continuity/causality sense, the previous "future" would be links to the chain of events leading to a new future... But that "future" would be no longer in existence. They would be erased. That's why the Whispers fight. That's why the Planet's existence is now in jeopardy. There's a zero sum game for the Planet's future, given the reality of how these time-space threads work (within the context of the narrative). Really don't know why people miss this extremely obvious point/context. That's how it's written and it's a detail that's important to how the Whispers are framed.

The relationship between OG and Remake is merely that of different adaptions of a story. The stakes introduced regarding the nature of the future and time manipulation however, is something else entirely. Clearly, the future is in peril and the planet certainly feels it's at risk.

 

[KindOfBlue]

This is why I think it’s important to distinguish between “canon” and “continuity”, especially in this case.

To say that the Compilation is the “base of the Remake’s canon” does not discredit the possibility of Remake not flowing directly into AC and DoC in terms of continuity because those goals stated by the devs can (and frankly, have already) been achieved by incorporating Compilation elements into FF7 in a new way.

My point is that at this current point in time (subject to change, of course) it doesn’t have to strictly be either “this absolutely has to lead to AC & DoC” or “this has to completely toss AC & DoC out the window”. There is a middle ground here, the question is how much more in one direction will they lean in this apparent “unknown journey”.

Way I see it, if Remake isn’t going to go as far as covering the events of AC and DoC in the years following FF7 anyways, why not just go in whatever direction they want with those plot elements? It doesn’t erase the continuity between the OG and AC/DoC, and we already defeated the remnants of Sephiroth from AC anyways.

 

[Makoeyes987]

As I just explained, it erases the timeline. The "future" that created them.

If the writers state their intention is to show how all the Compilation of FFVII stories connect to FFVII properly and lead to each other, then it frankly makes no sense to expect they'd nuke it. That's just common sense. The Compilation not only serves as the base of the Remake, it's also part of their creative intention in terms of showcasing their story's appropriate context.

It's like expecting cake when the bakery specializes in pies. That's just not what they're doing.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I'm sorry, Mako, I just truly don't understand how Remake leading into a different -- or rather its own -- ending is the same as nuking the Compilation if the Compilation is something that's already happened within the context of its story? So every story with time travel (again, if that's what is happening) is nuking itself if it doesn't lead to its beginning?

But really, I guess this whole conversation depends on what direction that "if" leans and I think this argument is circular because the logic in-universe is rather circular.

I also truly don't understand how, on the one hand, the devs supposedly don't want to replace and erase any of the Compilation, but on the other, they're basically fine replacing and erasing the OG with Remake? Didn't they also say that they don't want Remake to replace the OG? Of course, it's possible that's not what is being said and I'm just misunderstanding.

And honestly, having the Whispers and the "future" basically be represented by Croceo, Viridi and Rubrum, the three Sephiroth clones, doesn't sound exactly good. And I never quite understood why they'd fight for a future in which they fail and die anyway? Because they were cleansed in the end? (And yes, I've heard that they basically don't have a will of their own, but the devs really could've chosen anyone else as those Whispers or just made them into other nameless Whispers like the rest. It's not like they had to be Sephiroth clones.)

But really, I think if the devs wanted to make an "OG extended", they could've just made an "OG extended" without the Whispers. They didn't need to exist, not even as a meta-explanation for changes. .....well, I guess they had to exist as an explanation to why Zack's alive now.

 

[ForceStealer]

But really, I think if the devs wanted to make an "OG extended", they could've just made an "OG extended" without the Whispers. They didn't need to exist, not even as a meta-explanation for changes. .....well, I guess they had to exist as an explanation to why Zack's alive now.

Yes, the remake could have been uncomplicatedly great