Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I kind of think that Nojima heard of those English lyrics and liked them enough to incorporate that part into the novel, yeah. Also it's amusing to me that despite the English lyrics going about the "one true love", I still prefer the Japanese lyrics that really make my heart ache :'(
 

verse1994

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
verse
kind of think that Nojima heard of those English lyrics and liked them enough to incorporate that part into the novel, yeah.
Exactly! Not only this, I somehow feel like Nojima also goes through those controversies like Tifa bully, Tifa not know Cloud that much, no feeling in the childhood on the internet and hits them very accurately. The novel really addresses exact the questions unanswered well or left ambiguous in OG about Tifa and Cloud's past so people don't have to argue that anymore from now on.

I really like the mental depiction every time Tifa thinks about the Cloud. It's so detailed, sweet and cute. Nojima did a great job!
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
null said:
As was the case during the golden age of koi_____________bito, two obviously unrelated and coincidentally adjacent words.
I remember being around for the golden age of Koi space bito, but I can barely remembered what triggered it.
Was it AC, where Tifa was referred to as koi space bito, and people argued that it didn't mean girlfriend or lover?

I only remember the many pages in Faith and Devotion that were used to try to figure out if the fish depicted on the staircase of the forgotten city was an actual Japanese carp (koi) and hence proof of love.

(Also, laughing my ass off at how stupid the above sentence sounds, but it was a real thing back then)
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
It wasn't a real thing. It was pushed by a certain corner of the internet because they had a melt down on Tifa being described as "someone's lover" in the AC Reunion Files and everyone knows that "someone" could only be Cloud.

Reunion Files14.jpg
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Double posting because I stumbled across this:


Keep in mind that it's translated via Lens, so the translation is bad but... this recontextualises the end of the OG, and gives continuity between this scene where Tifa asks if the stars are watching them, and the promise Cloud and her made:


The promise to meet with their dead beloved ones. So it really fits and ties the Highwind and the scene where they state they will meet their dead beloved ones one day. I just really like what Nojima is doing, it's so really precious to both the OG and Remake. He's also giving such a strong base for Remake, I understand why the devs said this novella is the backbone of Remake, because it truly is.
 
About the last part of the OG, casually playing Dissidia Opera Omnia on phone right now and yesterday I unlocked one of Tifa's voice lines:

'Yeah, let's go meet her'

I know it's not a canon game at all, but it's curious how they wanted to make a reference to them wanting to see Aerith again. It's their promise, their wish, not Cloud's.
 

Phantasia

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Anyone seen this yet? I assumed it was from the new ultimania but it's apparently from the first remake ultimania and confirms that Tifa falls in love with Cloud. I'd have expected to have seen this before if that were the case.
Check the post again. Op edited their comment addressing a mistake in their translation. It doesn't say anything about her loving him (I guess they were saving that information for the new novel or something).
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I was going to answer but yeah, it seemed weird, such a line would have popped up if it had been written in the Ultimania. It was also weird to see it framed during Remake while we always have known she fell for him way earlier than that. However these two profiles are really interesting, thanks for sharing ;)

Edit: @odekopeko and I were talking, and last year, she shared this tweet in Twitter:


odekopeko said:
I did a rough translation: Compared to the original, since the voice cast acted very well, giving added depth and realism to their characters, we were able to portray nuances that we wouldn't be able to with only text. This is especially seen in the night scene in the Sector 7 slums when Tifa visits Cloud's apartment. The conversation [between them] is so vivid [could also be: so raw with emotions], which is quite thrilling, isn't it? There, in that scene, as Cloud interacts with his comrade, he remembers his old self, and that moves him to act gently towards Tifa. I believe the music, along with the voice acting, will strongly communicate their feelings to us, don't you think?
This is during the night at the end of chapter 4, in what I believed was an incredibly intimate scene between the two; and at least, Toriyama felt that this scene conveyed the romance between the two quite beautifully :awesome:

I will also note that in this scene, Tifa also seems to bring out the true Cloud (he remembers his old self), and we can see how he truly is. Their hearts really lie with each other, it's beautiful :'(
 
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odekopeko

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Peko
What they wanted to portray was Cloud remembering his old self and being more gentle towards Tifa through the music and voice acting. I don’t know how much of “his old self” he really remembers, but they’re saying that by speaking to her, he does remember some things about his old self. Maybe this is about him remembering the promise he made to her on that starry night at the water tower, and he does get a bit soft for her because of this 🥺 this scene happens after he comes back from the mission with Jessie and crew right?
 

Stiggie

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Stiggie
Check the post again. Op edited their comment addressing a mistake in their translation. It doesn't say anything about her loving him (I guess they were saving that information for the new novel or something).
Too bad, but yeah, that's why I asked for clarification because I was highly dubious that something like that could have gotten through without me knowing about it XD
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
Phantasia said:
"Words aren't the only way to tell people what you're thinking."
And it still cracks me up to this day that Cloud's response to that was "dotdotdot"

So what do the good people at Faith think about what's going to happen in FF7R Part 2 given what we know about Trace of Two Pasts?
The more I look at it, the more I feel the dozens of pages dedicated to Tifa's feelings for Cloud are absolutely unnecessary to understanding FF7R's plot as a whole, but they chose to write it in anyway.

Given that the structure of the novel is actually a conversation between Tifa and Aerith....Cloud really could have been the one listening to Aerith's story. He could have been the one to show empathy for her lonely childhood and experience of being bullied by acknowledging his own isolated childhood too - One that is being simultaneously unfolded through Tifa's narration. They could have depicted him then opening up to Aerith in the present, and whilst at the same time Tifa could reveal her affections for Cloud as well his crush on her in the past. It would have lead into FF7R Part 2 with an even more powerful LTD (and fans would probably make it extremely vitriolic =/ )

But correct me if I'm wrong, there's almost no interaction between Cloud and Aerith in ToTP? And present Cloud seems to just have a cameo to get annoyed about Tifa's tea parties with Emilio :huh:

It seems like a really deliberate move to establish character relationships for Part 2, and even further diminish any LTD fuel.

If that's the case, I'd be totally fine if I was proven wrong in my initial assumption that there'd be not that much romance till after the Lifestream, and I'd be happy if was wrong about it being too early for a confession of feelings during Tifa's portion of the Gold Saucer date as well : )
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I'm not going to stray too much into the LTD, but to me there's one thing in Aerith's novel that does seem to indicate that she has feelings for Cloud. It seems natural given that they follow the OG that will we get more clerith scenes, and I wish for cloti fans to understand that. Cloud does waver between the two girls until Aerith dies. I will say no more, if you want more talk about this, pull me in the LTD thread. To me, the fact that cloti will be made extra clear by the end of Remake makes no doubt at this point, and I don't care for arguing with cleriths or non-shippers anymore. I rant here from time to time, it's enough to steam off lol.

The second part of @odekopeko's translation should be out today or tomorrow I think. It's a bit long but has plenty of information about Nibelheim and her relationship with the three other boys.
 
I don't want to step much into LTD matters in this thread, but well, even with a decent amount of Clerith waiting for us on Part 2, that doesn't mean that Cloti is going to be kind of sidelined to keep it 'hidden' like in the OG. Part 1 is proof that there's no need for that, now that the characters aren't little blurry things anymore.

Maybe I'm interpreted wrong what 'wavers' means, but if wavering requires an equal footing for both options to choose, I don't think it was the case for the LTD.
 

verse1994

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
verse
I don't want to step much into LTD matters in this thread, but well, even with a decent amount of Clerith waiting for us on Part 2, that doesn't mean that Cloti is going to be kind of sidelined to keep it 'hidden' like in the OG. Part 1 is proof that there's no need for that, now that the characters aren't little blurry things anymore.

Maybe I'm interpreted wrong what 'wavers' means, but if wavering requires an equal footing for both options to choose, I don't think it was the case for the LTD.
I just hope I won't see poor jealous Tifa hidden in the background without saying a word while Aerith keeps flirting with Cloud like Cait Sith‘s scene and intentionally having Tifa witness in real life and Zack witness in lifestream. After finished reading the ToTP, I think Tifa deserves so much better , should not be just one of the love interests since she is the grail of the main plot.
 

a_apple 2.0

Pro Adventurer
AKA
a_apple
I'm not going to stray too much into the LTD, but to me there's one thing in Aerith's novel that does seem to indicate that she has feelings for Cloud. It seems natural given that they follow the OG that will we get more clerith scenes, and I wish for cloti fans to understand that. Cloud does waver between the two girls until Aerith dies. I will say no more, if you want more talk about this, pull me in the LTD thread. To me, the fact that cloti will be made extra clear by the end of Remake makes no doubt at this point, and I don't care for arguing with cleriths or non-shippers anymore. I rant here from time to time, it's enough to steam off lol.

The second part of @odekopeko's translation should be out today or tomorrow I think. It's a bit long but has plenty of information about Nibelheim and her relationship with the three other boys.
How weird you would think jp CloudxAerith friends would have been all over something like that but I didn't saw anything, what are we talking about here?:monster:
 

null

You は Shock
AKA
null
I just hope I won't see poor jealous Tifa hidden in the background without saying a word while Aerith keeps flirting with Cloud like Cait Sith‘s scene and intentionally having Tifa witness in real life and Zack witness in lifestream. After finished reading the ToTP, I think Tifa deserves so much better , should not be just one of the love interests since she is the grail of the main plot.
I just can't picture Aerith asking for that fortune again, knowing what she now knows.
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
verse1994 said:
I just hope I won't see poor jealous Tifa hidden in the background without saying a word while Aerith keeps flirting with Cloud like Cait Sith‘s scene and intentionally having Tifa witness in real life and Zack witness in lifestream. After finished reading the ToTP, I think Tifa deserves so much better , should not be just one of the love interests since she is the grail of the main plot
I doubt they'd do that, since these OG scenes 1) the girls get catty in Don Corneo's cellar 2) Shinra tower where Tifa gets jealous while Cloud and Aerith talk about their date were taken out.

But the "Tifa deserves better" also gives me mixed feelings about ToTP too. If SE's goal was to build a story around Tifa's character to give her a hard life and show that she'd suffered a lot, they could have diminished Cloud's presence to the bare minimum, and still be able to achieve a high level of player / reader empathy for her. There's a lot more that could have been said of her hatred of Shinra and Sephiroth to fuel her initiation into Avalanche, and really question if their motives really align with hers. The relationship between her mother could have been explored more as well, the same way Ifalna / Elmyra's impact was shown for Aerith's story, and extrapolate this in terms of her then wanting to be a good mother figure for Marlene.

But when they decide to instead pivot to devoting pages to "Cloud is an unreachable star" /"she fell in love with Cloud / want to live with him" / dokidoki onomatopoeia and blushing....and even Thea Lockhart just seemed to exist briefly to compliment Cloud...this emphasis on Cloud will just make people who root for her feel like she needs to be "rewarded" with Cloud as the prize. I'm not fond of that, unless there is a reason for it in Part 2.

Life (and fiction) doesn't just hand you your love interest just because you've endured difficulty.

Humming said:
Maybe I'm interpreted wrong what 'wavers' means, but if wavering requires an equal footing for both options to choose, I don't think it was the case for the LTD.
Again, without going into the LTD, this is precisely the reason why I don't like this whole "wavering". If Cloud's characterization in Part 2 is him being all, Tifa or Aerith? Aerith or Tifa?...it's just really unappealing.

I'd play part 2 thinking "Tifa baby gurl, you don't need this undecisive man-child in your life cos you're going to kick Sephiroth's ass, then you gonna hustle and make 7th Heaven the biggest franchise ever, get seed funding from Rufus Shinra and you're going to front page the Midgar Times's 30 under 30 and get centre spread as well" :P
 
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