Faith v. 3.0 (Cloti Club)

[Eerie]

In AC/C they were going through a rough patch, but I remember clearly people laughing and commenting how Cloud was going to get some that night, with Tifa’s foxy look at the end!

In DC the game is not focused on them and they appear just to help Vincent, so I’m not sure what should have been shown... their story, as in, “they at the heart of the story”, is finished since AC/C. There is nothing new to show because they live peacefully. There is no struggle on Cloud or Tifa part, there is no new adventure, they have accepted what has happened. They still are together romantically, Tifa is still described as someone’s lover, etc. I think people just keep pushing the bar way too high, something they don’t do for other couples. I hope we’ll get a kiss this time around before the cut off in the Highwind scene, this would save us a lot of time in arguing on the internet

 

[verse1994]

In AC/C they were going through a rough patch, but I remember clearly people laughing and commenting how Cloud was going to get some that night, with Tifa’s foxy look at the end!

In DC the game is not focused on them and they appear just to help Vincent, so I’m not sure what should have been shown... their story, as in, “they at the heart of the story”, is finished since AC/C. There is nothing new to show because they live peacefully. There is no struggle on Cloud or Tifa part, there is no new adventure, they have accepted what has happened. They still are together romantically, Tifa is still described as someone’s lover, etc. I think people just keep pushing the bar way too high, something they don’t do for other couples. I hope we’ll get a kiss this time around before the cut off in the Highwind scene, this would save us a lot of time in arguing on the internet

Yeah, I agree. A kiss is enough to kill the most of debate hopefully. Now I have been debating with those people who insists Aerith resolution scene is a love confession and at the meantime downgrade cloti moments. If it is not because of the COVID-19 and I have to stay at home, I think I must feel tired already to see people twist the plot to fit their fantasy.

 

[odekopeko]

So in my cases, I grew up in China, I think Japan and China shares similar oriental culture, when I read the book and I saw "好意", I was pretty much sure it meant romantics feeling, it meant love, they like each other. But when I first time looked up the internet about LTD, I was confused. Because I don't think "好意" means friendship.

I'm not sure if the rule is the same in Chinese, but the word by itself is neutral in Japanese. It could be romantic or not, and it depends on the context. When used in a less neutral phrasing, such as 互いに好意をも持っている, it's almost always speaking about romantic feelings. They "like"/"care for"/"have affection for" each other. It's still annoyingly neutral, but no Japanese person is going to tell you they're using that phrase when talking about two platonic friends?

Besides that, why would they need to ascertain their friendly feelings toward each other when they're alone, when we already know they became friends during their journey in FF7? People are just being weird.

The other issue I've seen going around is that some fans are convinced the Ultimanias all contradict each other. That the Devs all contradict each other, or prefer different end game couples. The average fan probably hasn't even seen these interviews yet. Recently, I've been seeing Japanese cloti fans RT old pages of the Ultimania NA/international fans have been putting up, and reading On the Way to a Smile, and being shocked over things written in it because it's all so new to them.

So, basically, what I feel needs to happen is for all this koui between Cloud and Tifa to be shown in the main source, which is the game. (This is already happening in the Remake Part 1, so I feel positive about it.) Getting a scene similar to the HaHw must not be affected by variables from the earlier part of the game, must not have "deviations", and their feelings should not need to be explained in a hard-to-get Ultimania book for otakus where people don't even trust the translations.

With the screencap of Cloud saying "and frankly, I've heard enough of howling for a lifetime". I think that, since they are going to fight Sephiroth, Cloud is worried because of his vision in the Shinra tower where Sephiroth kills her. He looks worried there to me, right before looking determined (he won't let that happen, and the reward for this is probably him saving her later in the fight against Harbinger). Thoughts?

I also thought he was turning not his head, and his upper body as well, to glance back at Tifa when he said that, but I didn't make the connections. I'm going to rewatch the scene later and try to frame my thoughts after.

 

[verse1994]

I'm not sure if the rule is the same in Chinese, but the word by itself is neutral in Japanese. It could be romantic or not, and it depends on the context. When used in a less neutral phrasing, such as 互いに好意をも持っている, it's almost always speaking about romantic feelings. They "like"/"care for"/"have affection for" each other. It's still annoyingly neutral, but no Japanese person is going to tell you they're using that phrase when talking about two platonic friends?

Yeah, I agree. For friends, you don't even have to make it clear, right? So basically 好意 in Chinese is usually translated to 好感. As I grew up, in our culture, we usually use this word to make fun of someone who has a secret crush on others. I am pretty sure because myself confessed my love using this word to the girl through letter when I was young. And she immediately turned me down lol. Apparently she knew what I meant is romantic otherwise she would say, hey, why not just maintain a platonic relationship. We were quite close friend already until I screwed everything up by the letter I wrote.

But people can always twist it because visually in OG, it was not obvious. I think based on current cloud and tifa's sexual tension development, I am positive.

 

[Graymouse]

What is your favorite Cloud X Tifa moment of all time. It could from any and all mediums.

Mine has to be at the end of AC where Cloud shyly smiles at Tifa and she does her cute "you will be getting some tonight" look.

 

[Graymouse]

Where the heck did everyone go? I won't allow this thread to go 24 hours without a single post. Tweet dump!!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282357203106660355

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283501641375809538

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283447540780683266

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280561189307723782

 

[minami758]

Dropping in to let you all know that some cool people are putting together a Cloud/Tifa zine! For those who don't know what a zine is, it's basically a fan magazine that consists of artwork/fanfiction/other creative content.

They're doing an interest check through Google Forms (you can suggest artists, writers, content you'd like to see), so be sure to fill it out if you're interested in such a thing:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1282213859659587584

From their Twitter:
"Because I Have You is the first volume of what is intended to be a collection of zines dedicated to the relationship between Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockhart from Final Fantasy VII. Just as these two souls are bound by an unyielding devotion and love, this zine highlights the best of their fated encounters: no matter how many times they are separated, they will always find each other. A testament to reunion and a reminder that the stars will always lead home... because I have you."

 

[KindOfBlue]

What is your favorite Cloud X Tifa moment of all time. It could from any and all mediums.

Mine has to be at the end of AC where Cloud shyly smiles at Tifa and she does her cute "you will be getting some tonight" look.

View attachment 7127

The entire lifestream sequence from OG...then again, it’s my favorite moment out of anything FF7 related in general so that’s probably a given!

 

[Yumelinh]

You seem to be new around TLS @KindOfBlue, so welcome!! Hope you enjoy your stay =)

What is your favorite Cloud X Tifa moment of all time. It could from any and all mediums.
/QUOTE]

Honestly, I can never pick just one because it keeps changing lol, but I love their little conversation at the beginning of CoT and especially this part:

“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”
Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again.
“Because I have you this time.”
“You’ve always had me.”
“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.

It's so unlike Cloud to be so forward with his feelings, so having him saying that to Tifa and the clear implications behind those words...what more could I have asked for?! lol

 

[KindOfBlue]

Indeed, I am new here. Thanks for the welcome!

 

[odekopeko]

Welcome @KindOfBlue ! That's my favorite from the og ff7 as well.

What is your favorite Cloud X Tifa moment of all time. It could from any and all mediums.

Aww, there's no way I can just choose one!

If we're talking Remake, then right now I can safely say I'm still not over the Cloti train roll yet. I'm almost tempted to follow that account on Twitter dedicated to tweeting it every 6 hours. It's that good!

Cloud's super soft and tender: Heiki ka? /You okay?
And Tifa's shy gaze, tiny, clenched fists resting his chest, and her nervous "M-Mm."

And just how their faces are hovering so close, and how Cloud became conscious of staring into her eyes so he also gets shy, and is the first to shift his gaze.

It was perfect!

 

[JT77fp]

@odekopeko good to see you back here. In another thread, you mentioned being sick, so I hope you're feeling better.

What is your favorite Cloud X Tifa moment of all time. It could from any and all mediums.

Nothing beats the OG for me, but the remake has plenty of relatable moments. Like when Tifa asks Cloud to check up on Barret on the train to Sector 5. He says, "Barret will be fine". To which she replies, "But I won't be until I know for sure!".

Cloud then has a resigned sigh and says, "Alright. Be right back" or something. Just a slight begrudging tone in his voice, but does it anyway without arguing.

That's good husband material, according to my wife! Personally, I would have argued a tiny bit more. I don't really go for the big romantic scenes, so it's silly things like this that I find most amusing.

 

[Eerie]

@odekopeko that scene embarrasses me so much more than the hug one, which is super intimate. It really is the only scene in Remake that makes me feel like I'm watching something I shouldn't have LOL.

 

[Graymouse]

The entire lifestream sequence from OG...then again, it’s my favorite moment out of anything FF7 related in general so that’s probably a given!

Welcome to the forums! Hope you enjoy your stay!

I love how everyone has a different favorite scene of Cloud X Tifa. Just really shows how diverse everyone is. Here are a couple more Tweets before bedtime.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283320198704041986

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283450952683413504

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283133070413979648

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283296917464604672

 

[Jack Holiday]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283566420165525510

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283613753771126784

 

[Eerie]

I think we might have a translation problem guys... I’ve seen several posts either in Twitter or tumblr mentioning that the real Cloud was surfacing in the way he spoke with Tifa. However I remember the quote from the Ultimania because the translation was hard to get for me; it was basically saying the Cloud was more relaxed around Tifa (the term used was “bare” in the translation). Nojima confirmed that the real Cloud came out for the hug, but, I am really not certain there are other times when he does? Maybe @odekopeko can help if she’s feeling better?

 

[shersita007]

I think we might have a translation problem guys... I’ve seen several posts either in Twitter or tumblr mentioning that the real Cloud was surfacing in the way he spoke with Tifa. However I remember the quote from the Ultimania because the translation was hard to get for me; it was basically saying the Cloud was more relaxed around Tifa (the term used was “bare” in the translation). Nojima confirmed that the real Cloud came out for the hug, but, I am really not certain there are other times when he does? Maybe @odekopeko can help if she’s feeling better?

There were several translation, some toning it down more than others. Unfortunately I can't find one good translation made by one twitter account 'stargazer heaven', she/he translated it, separating each words in different online translator, and the word used in 'bare', was translated as 'true colors' and 'natural self' so based on that, some people started to say 'Cloud true self' around Tifa. Keep in mind, that 'bare' can actually be a parallel to 'your own self' since you are openly showing up yourself without any mask (you are being bare) , like being 'nude' this is all me just exactly like I'm truly am.

 

[odekopeko]

@odekopeko good to see you back here. In another thread, you mentioned being sick, so I hope you're feeling better.

Aw, thanks! I still have a sore throat and lacking energy, but as I joked with @Eerie before, if I can still come online to argue about my fictional pairings, then I must still be okay. On Friday, the rest of my family have an appointment to do the drive thru covid testing. Since one of my brothers tested positive, there's a chance we all may have it, so it's better to stay at home until then. It's been a bit boring because I like going outdoors, but it's best to hermit and keep others safe just in case.

Btw, my friend helped me to draw a scene from Cloud and Tifa's promise scene. Wanted to share that with you guys too!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283789104740614144

I’ve seen several posts either in Twitter or tumblr mentioning that the real Cloud was surfacing in the way he spoke with Tifa. However I remember the quote from the Ultimania because the translation was hard to get for me; it was basically saying the Cloud was more relaxed around Tifa (the term used was “bare” in the translation). Nojima confirmed that the real Cloud came out for the hug, but, I am really not certain there are other times when he does? Maybe @odekopeko can help if she’s feeling better?

Do you or @shersita007 remember which page or what kanji was used?

 

[shersita007]

Do you or @shersita007 remember which page or what kanji was used?[/QUOTE]

I saw it a few months ago, on twitter, it was stargazer-heaven @bestofcloti, she translate the page where it is explained the toned of voice Cloud used for each girl (Tifa, Aerith, Jessie) she even put pictures of the translation JP - EN. Unfortunately I can't find the tweet, but she translated it as 'true colors', others reply that the exact word was 'more natural', others use 'relaxed' others 'bare', but I think all those words are parallel between each other, since people 'relaxed' with someone when you are confident enough with that person, that you are not ashamed or affraid to show your true self to that person.

 

[Eerie]

Thank you @shersita007 I went and found the tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255316963397718017

But twitter is super wonky for me right now - I forwarded it to @odekopeko hopefully she'll see this and will be able to tell I do think it's a big difference if the real Cloud is able to surface only once or several times. It does change the perspective a bit.

 

[odekopeko]

@Eerie @shersita007 , I responded on twitter, but I'll add it here as well.

Personally, I'd translate it as, when he speaks to Tifa, he speaks a bit more naturally. The "loosens up" translation I saw is a bit more accurate. Not sure I agree with some of the other translations I've seen going around, but then again, I'm not a professional translator. To me, Cloud is not speaking "plainly" to Tifa. That's a bad translation. But it isn't indicative of his true self emerging either, since the persona he's created is, at this point, also "him."

素が出る = bringing out [someone's] natural self

Edit to add: It's not something that is consciously brought out. The person is simply being themselves, being natural, and showing their true personality, without thinking about it.

Sorry, I don't know if that helps, but I feel it's just not the same as "his true self briefly emerging" as in Nibelheim Cloud who loves Tifa unconditionally because we know that he's not himself right now, that's why there are moments with Tifa being hesitant or even afraid of him. And to reiterate, I personally think Nomura is only speaking of the Cloud with his current persona attached, and it's just about the way current Cloud behaves when he speaks to each girl. Not something deeper.

 

[Eerie]

Thanks, taht was the idea I was going with, that Cloud didn't try to impress her like he does with Aerith. He feels more comfortable with Tifa, which is something I can totally get behind! (plus Aerith I have a hunch that may also be because of his Zack persona lol but it fails ultimately because he is Cloud ).

 

[shersita007]

Thanks, taht was the idea I was going with, that Cloud didn't try to impress her like he does with Aerith. He feels more comfortable with Tifa, which is something I can totally get behind! (plus Aerith I have a hunch that may also be because of his Zack persona lol but it fails ultimately because he is Cloud ).

It is explained on SE E2 interview, Cloud personality, he having an inferiority complex and putting this fake cool fachade with everyone. Aerith and Jessie feed more this fantasy on Cloud, admiring his soldier skills and calling him their heroe, while with Tifa he plays differently (in the first chapters though he also tried to play cool with Tifa, giving the flower or calling her beautiful). Is a good contrast indeed, Cloud acting cool with Aerith, but acting more like himself with Tifa, is always the opposite between these two women.

I think we should wait for Ultimania Remake official NA translation, since there are several sources that says different things. And Cloud being more normal or genuine around Tifa is translated in different sources that I had read (stargazer heaven was just one).

 

[shersita007]

Thanks, taht was the idea I was going with, that Cloud didn't try to impress her like he does with Aerith. He feels more comfortable with Tifa, which is something I can totally get behind! (plus Aerith I have a hunch that may also be because of his Zack persona lol but it fails ultimately because he is Cloud ).

Anyway, stargazer heaven, tweeted recently 2 sources more for the same translation (TLS and Game8) they both support the 'true self' side, with examples and screenshots (well the TLS one at least) in case you want to look at it.

 

[Graymouse]

Keeping with the evening tradition, a few new Tweets of Cloud X Tifa. Showing the appreciation of some really good fanart.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283837275487363073

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1283554984332681216