FF7 Headcanons and Discussion

[Guts]

Heh, I like the idea and all, but Aerith and Tifa together? I think their contrast was one of FFVII's high points. If you Katamari'd them into the same person methinks the game'd lose quite a bit of impact...

 

[Octo]

Tseng knows that Elena has a crush on him, it drove him crazy but he was trying to maintain an air of professionalism. Until the Temple of the Ancients, where he just gave up. Had they actually got around to having dinner they would have fucked each others brains out

Being stabbited by Sephiroth sort of put a downer on the whole thing though.

Reeve's father died shortly after we saw him at the honeybee in with Reeve's mother. It was on that very same trip. His parents actually lived in Kalm. Because of his mother decided to stay in Midgar, which is why she is alone when she takes Denzel in.

 

[minimosey]

• FF7 Tonberries were once Cetra. Upon being infected by Jenova, their minds were warped; in some cases it resembled people in later stages of Geostigma with feelings of despair and helplessness, the complication being that the Cetra were also attuned to the Planet. Because of their own feelings they found it impossible to distance themselves from the suffering heard from the Lifestream. Some just snapped and became mindless monsters. Some snapped and decided that they would mete out the suffering they heard back to those who had inflicted it--and that was the start of Everyone's Grudge.
• Had Aerith actually gotten out of Midgar and "followed the wind" in Before Crisis, she would have found herself smackdab in Nibelheim as things went bad.
• The couple in the honey bee inn isn't Reeve's parents. The Cait Sith doll is there because Reeve is investigating a coworker's misappropriation of company funds--funds that rented the room--specifically funds for his department. Don't mess with Urban Dev or Reeve will ceiling cat your family.

 

[Guts]

• FF7 Tonberries were once Cetra. Upon being infected by Jenova, their minds were warped; in some cases it resembled people in later stages of Geostigma with feelings of despair and helplessness, the complication being that the Cetra were also attuned to the Planet. Because of their own feelings they found it impossible to distance themselves from the suffering heard from the Lifestream. Some just snapped and became mindless monsters. Some snapped and decided that they would mete out the suffering they heard back to those who had inflicted it--and that was the start of Everyone's Grudge.

Me gusta.

 

[Ryushikaze]

• Had Aerith actually gotten out of Midgar and "followed the wind" in Before Crisis, she would have found herself smackdab in Nibelheim as things went bad.

That's quite a feat, given that her BC appearance is during the Nibelheim mission or later.
Unless you mean when Zack broke out with Cloud, which would have been awesome.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

In both renditions of Sephy, Jenova was a corruption of what he was and caused by Hojo's scientific curiosity. Following the other and now disproven possibility, he submitted to her, he was a second catalyst indeed.

A human losing the struggle all of Shinra's consumers do, consumed by temptation, the difference being that he becomes an apocalyptic god.

Sephiroth was never human though. I would say he's more Frankenstein's monster than anything. I don't think he ever truly had a chance. He's an abomination that should have never happened. It's humanity treading where they never should have. It's even got classic mad scientist who tries to bring back the dead. But while Jenova is like a parasite, I think the hybrid that is Sephiroth is even worse.

And then CC tries to convince me he is only in need of a hug :\

 

[Guts]

That's the best interpretation and fits the premise of my outlook best, yes.

Damn, I wish Square'd try a similar thematic or at least one with as much potential, sometime. And not try shoving it in our faces like FFXIII's message of fate and inevitability, leave stuff for the brain monkeys to work out why doncha.

 

[minimosey]

That's quite a feat, given that her BC appearance is during the Nibelheim mission or later.
Unless you mean when Zack broke out with Cloud, which would have been awesome.

It's not. Aerith's appearance is the 11th mission, dated 0002/8/9. The BC mission involving Nibelheim is the 12th mission, dated 0002/9/21. She would have had plenty of time to get there before SOLDIERs arrived.

 

[Master Bates]

Sephiroth was never human though. I would say he's more Frankenstein's monster than anything. I don't think he ever truly had a chance. He's an abomination that should have never happened. It's humanity treading where they never should have. It's even got classic mad scientist who tries to bring back the dead. But while Jenova is like a parasite, I think the hybrid that is Sephiroth is even worse.

And then CC tries to convince me he is only in need of a hug :\

This one's pretty good. I love it. And I had just recently reread Frankenstein by Mary Shelley as well.

 

[Theozilla]

This one's pretty good. I love it. And I had just recently reread Frankenstein by Mary Shelley as well.

So Sephiroth could be like Gaira from the Toho kaiju movie Frankenstein's Monsters: Sanda versus Gaira while Angeal and Genesis could be like Sanda.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

One could argue that the Jenova/Sephiroth ambiguity is emblematic of a struggle between humanity and UNhumanity, and that Seph's tragic flaw was submitting to her will.

Unfortunately, that's no longer up for debate. Thanks compilation. I miss the 90s.

I still say he embraced her will and became the new JENOVA, even though he wasn't being outright controlled.

::was a big fan of the Puppet Master Theory back in the day::

Actually, isn't there a quote saying something like that?

::goes to check::

Yeah, his 10th AU profile says he "took upon himself the role of an agent of Jenova."

 

[Ite]

On the theme of humanity-or-doom, I find it sadly fitting that Aeris' last act is a distinctly Cetra one.

Huh. That one kind of makes my head explode.

 

[Splintered]

I still say he embraced her will and became the new JENOVA, even though he wasn't being outright controlled.

::was a big fan of the Puppet Master Theory back in the day::

Actually, isn't there a quote saying something like that?

::goes to check::

Yeah, his 10th AU profile says he "took upon himself the role of an agent of Jenova."

I always felt like Jenova made him more susceptible to insanity, but Sephiroth was fully in control once he avoided and when he gave into it.

A part of me wished that the one thing that they explored was Sephiroth's narcissism. Maybe it's just me, but I felt that had a major contribution to Sephiroth going batshit. What do you mean I'm not just amazing, and that I'm a monster? That's okay, I'm an almost extinct honorable ancient race. What do you mean I'm not an ancient? That's okay, I'm becoming a god.

The opening to AC/C always left me unsatisfied because it cites Sephiroth's major motivations as hatred, but I always felt it was less personal hate and rage that pushed him, and more disgust and dissmisiveness because he HAD to be so much better.

The other factor to him breaking and his narcissism, imo, would be the treatment of him by Hojo and the other scientists. Personal headcanon: Hojo filled his head with how great he is by sicko-fawning over him and telling him how much better he was than everybody else. Seprhioth hated him but he was also molded by him.

 

[Guts]

I like the idea of Sephiroth submitting to Jenova's power and instigating his eventual downfall through narcissism while obsessed with being more than human on the way to it. Cloud, meanwhile, is perfectly content with two feet on the ground.

I like to think of Sephiroth as too complicated to give a concrete or simplistic motive to. He had hatred towards Cloud, narcissism towards himself, a dislike of the human condition as a defensive reflex to shield him from his unnatural existence - "Who cares if I'm not human. Being human sucks, I'll make everyone else a part of me and each other, show them the transcended world I now know!"

And all the VI fanboys prefer him less than a two dimensional autistic clown and a Joker ripoff who's one liners all came from the translation staff.

 

[Octo]

This is probably bollocks. But the only way I've been able to get my head around Sephiroth being more powerful than Jenova is to view Jenova as a purely instinctive creature will no real will of its own, other than to survive. So in that respect Jenova isn't actually evil, its just doing what it does naturally like an animal.

Then Sephiroth, who is human, and therefore has a concept of good and evil is imbued with Jenovas power but is able to wield it and use it to achieve his own ends.

I think any human concieved in that way would be able to do the same, as the only special thing about Sephiroth is how he was concieved. Obviously Hojo abandoned this method because of the 9 month waiting period

I can't remember for sure, but Sephiroth doesn't refer to Jenova as 'mother' post Nibelhiem does he? I get the feeling he believed all that crap about him being an Ancient but after the lifestream he realised the truth, but it didn't really change things because he was after power either way.

 

[Theozilla]

This is probably bollocks. But the only way I've been able to get my head around Sephiroth being more powerful than Jenova is to view Jenova as a purely instinctive creature will no real will of its own, other than to survive. So in that respect Jenova isn't actually evil, its just doing what it does naturally like an animal.

Then Sephiroth, who is human, and therefore has a concept of good and evil is imbued with Jenovas power but is able to wield it and use it to achieve his own ends.

I think any human concieved in that way would be able to do the same, as the only special thing about Sephiroth is how he was concieved. Obviously Hojo abandoned this method because of the 9 month waiting period

I can't remember for sure, but Sephiroth doesn't refer to Jenova as 'mother' post Nibelhiem does he? I get the feeling he believed all that crap about him being an Ancient but after the lifestream he realised the truth, but it didn't really change things because he was after power either way.

No, he stilled called Jenova mother after Nibelhiem, even in AC/C he still refers to Jenova as mother.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Yeah, he also refers to Jenova as his mother during the TOTA.

On the whole, while he definetely doesn't believe himself to be ana ncient he does still seem to regard Jenova as his mother. Of course, the alternative would mean having to admit Lucrecia is, and Sephiroth ain't about to do that.

 

[Octo]

No, he stilled called Jenova mother after Nibelhiem, even in AC/C he still refers to Jenova as mother.

Yeah, he also refers to Jenova as his mother during the TOTA.

On the whole, while he definetely doesn't believe himself to be ana ncient he does still seem to regard Jenova as his mother. Of course, the alternative would mean having to admit Lucrecia is, and Sephiroth ain't about to do that.

Dang, I thought I was on to something there. Well I guess that just proves how fucked in the head he is

 

[looneymoon]

A part of me wished that the one thing that they explored was Sephiroth's narcissism. Maybe it's just me, but I felt that had a major contribution to Sephiroth going batshit. What do you mean I'm not just amazing, and that I'm a monster? That's okay, I'm an almost extinct honorable ancient race. What do you mean I'm not an ancient? That's okay, I'm becoming a god.

The opening to AC/C always left me unsatisfied because it cites Sephiroth's major motivations as hatred, but I always felt it was less personal hate and rage that pushed him, and more disgust and dissmisiveness because he HAD to be so much better.

The other factor to him breaking and his narcissism, imo, would be the treatment of him by Hojo and the other scientists. Personal headcanon: Hojo filled his head with how great he is by sicko-fawning over him and telling him how much better he was than everybody else. Seprhioth hated him but he was also molded by him.

I always felt the same way. It gave him really interesting parallels with Cloud who always felt worthless growing up. "I wanted to better than the other boys" and whatnot.

It's why I HATE HATE HATE the way they expanded his personality in Crisis Core. He was so... nice. They made him incredibly dull and lacking in the cocky charisma that I always imagined him to have. Cloud's asshole persona at the beginning of the game was partly, in my headcanon, an emulation of Sephiroth's own general dismissive attitude (mixed with some of carefree, flirtatious Zack's bravado).

 

[OneWingedDemon]

And all the VI fanboys prefer him less than a two dimensional autistic clown and a Joker ripoff who's one liners all came from the translation staff.

I love you bb

 

[Ite]

I don't know, in the OG Sephiroth doesn't really display that much narcissism. His talk about becoming a god sounds more like vaulting ambition, which takes ego, but it's more nuanced.

In terms of narcissistic villains, Kuja exhibits way more traits, as do Ultimecia and Kefka. Would you prefer Sephiroth to be more like that? He's certainly been like that lately.

 

[Lord Noctis]

He did refer to himself as being "far superior to the ancients" during the TOTA sequence.

 

[Master Bates]

I don't think he's entirely a narcissist. Methinks what Sephiroth has, instead of narcissism, is god complex.

 

[Vendel]

I don't think he's entirely a narcissist. Methinks what Sephiroth has, instead of narcissism, is god complex.

Oh he has a complex alright. Long hair. Absurdly long sword. Long coat.

Just think about it.

 

[Guts]

I love you bb

Haha, I just like complex villains who the hero and you come to know intricately after a while. The sorts who make you think, theorize about, like Griffith from Berserk or Delita. Sephiroth is way too commonly dismissed by people shrouded in bias and poorly represented by his godawful writing team.