FF7 Headcanons and Discussion
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Kassi
Pro Adventurer
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- tardis60, dephinia
I feel that just because someone is missing a basic piece of information in their education, it doesn't necessarily mean they're unintelligent. Example: in Conan Doyle's novel 'A Study in Scarlet' it's revealed that Sherlock Holmes is unaware that the Earth revolves around the sun and claims it's irrelevant knowledge to his work.
Cloud seems to possess phenomenal swordfighting skills, maybe he focused all his time on learning things that would be relevant for the life he wanted. Fruits & veg may not be on the SOLDIER entrance exam. Although I hope that even without knowing their names he avails himself of them, otherwise... wow, constipation! Maybe that's why he almost never smiles?
<3
Kassi
Cloud seems to possess phenomenal swordfighting skills, maybe he focused all his time on learning things that would be relevant for the life he wanted. Fruits & veg may not be on the SOLDIER entrance exam. Although I hope that even without knowing their names he avails himself of them, otherwise... wow, constipation! Maybe that's why he almost never smiles?
<3
Kassi
Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I was being a bit facetious there 
It was that bit that confused me, it's not like 7th Heaven is some sort of Fusion food joint, I imagine it would all be pretty basic stuff.
What I'm really getting at is that whoever the fuck wrote it is making a big thing out of Cloud not knowing vegetables like he's been locked away for 500 years or something. Cloud is not California Man! (it has been brought to my attention that outside of europe I should say Encino Man) Yeah so....crappy storytelling. No surprises there though.
It was that bit that confused me, it's not like 7th Heaven is some sort of Fusion food joint, I imagine it would all be pretty basic stuff.
What I'm really getting at is that whoever the fuck wrote it is making a big thing out of Cloud not knowing vegetables like he's been locked away for 500 years or something. Cloud is not California Man! (it has been brought to my attention that outside of europe I should say Encino Man) Yeah so....crappy storytelling. No surprises there though.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Cloud is a good boy who just ate what his mother put in front of him. Never did he say, "Yuk, what's this green stuff?"
Dark and Divine
Pro Adventurer
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- D&D
The Masamune was among several other ancient relics found in the site where they also found the tablets talking about Omega and Chaos. It was a weapon that the Cetra used to defeat Jenova.
Shinra took it and the Science Department was in charge to discover any unusual elements the sword could have, but they weren’t able to discover anything, except that the sword had an incredible strength. But since no one could use it properly, they just kept it as a trophy.
But, as a certain boy grew and his inhuman strength grew with it, the scientists decided to offer him the sword to see if he could make anything out of it. The boy picked it up with ease and handled it with grace and finesse.
And so, the Masamune became the trademark weapon of Sephiroth, the man who is considered the superior evolution of Jenova. Ironic, isn’t it?
Shinra took it and the Science Department was in charge to discover any unusual elements the sword could have, but they weren’t able to discover anything, except that the sword had an incredible strength. But since no one could use it properly, they just kept it as a trophy.
But, as a certain boy grew and his inhuman strength grew with it, the scientists decided to offer him the sword to see if he could make anything out of it. The boy picked it up with ease and handled it with grace and finesse.
And so, the Masamune became the trademark weapon of Sephiroth, the man who is considered the superior evolution of Jenova. Ironic, isn’t it?
S and G
FFVII books and stuff
- AKA
- MJ Gallagher
When Cloud visits his mum in Nibelheim, he tells her that he is eating right and that Shinra are looking after him. This suggests that Shinra don't feed the military extravagant fruit and veg that he will later need knowledge of when discussing it with Tifa. Costcutting bastards...
Also, another headcanon of mine was that the craftsman in the house near Gongaga (the one who sold the Keystone to Dio) is
a) The legendary craftsman that is mentioned in the Crisis Core missions
b) The guy responsible for making the Masamune, the SOLDIER standard-issue Hardedge, and the Buster Sword, selling the latter to Angeal's father.
c) Argento's father who taught her her weapon-making skills
Also, another headcanon of mine was that the craftsman in the house near Gongaga (the one who sold the Keystone to Dio) is
a) The legendary craftsman that is mentioned in the Crisis Core missions
b) The guy responsible for making the Masamune, the SOLDIER standard-issue Hardedge, and the Buster Sword, selling the latter to Angeal's father.
c) Argento's father who taught her her weapon-making skills
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
- AKA
- Mr. Koiwai
re: fruits and vegetables
I am already 22 years old and still don't know the name of most vegetables--- and if I happen to do know them, I only know what they're called in our native language--- and only eat what's prepared on the table without complaints. And I wasn't even enlisted in a military school nor was I ever entrapped in a tube for experiment. What does that make me then?
I guess my point is that, like what Kassi said, fruit and vegetable names are irrelevant to Cloud. There was no need for him to know them so I don't think that part in CoT is totally out of place. I can totally relate to that, in my PoV.
I am already 22 years old and still don't know the name of most vegetables--- and if I happen to do know them, I only know what they're called in our native language--- and only eat what's prepared on the table without complaints. And I wasn't even enlisted in a military school nor was I ever entrapped in a tube for experiment. What does that make me then?
I guess my point is that, like what Kassi said, fruit and vegetable names are irrelevant to Cloud. There was no need for him to know them so I don't think that part in CoT is totally out of place. I can totally relate to that, in my PoV.
Edley
Pray for Sound
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- Issac Dian, Dudley, Chev Chelios
Didn't think that fruit and veg canon would have such legs. I think Nojima was just pointing out that Cloud was having trouble adjusting to the "normal" life. Which to me is hack because of all the social networking he does in the OG to save the world. Rally Avalanche, outsmart Shinra, raise gold chocobos, but of course he's too awkward to negotiate with the produce vendor.
Headcanon: Cloud is fooling everyone. He's misanthropic not shy.
Headcanon: Cloud is fooling everyone. He's misanthropic not shy.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
You do realize Cloud was locked away in Shinra Manor, and in a mako/jenova induced coma for over 5 years, and when he did finally wake up he had no real idea who he was, or his own true past?
From age 15 to 21, he was a vegetable. Half a decade of his life is just gone thanks to Shinra, which means a lot of the experiences a young adult has are lost upon him. Before that, he was in the shinra military as an MP. He enlisted as a kid. His life experience and knowledge of basic everyday things is extremely limited. Him having virtually no knowledge of cooking or produce not only makes sense, but is probably one of many things he's gonna have to learn.
It's not adjusting to normal life. It's living life.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
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- Ite
I'm sorry, I am going to have to loudly and obnoxiously disagree. Bear with me as I rant and rave...
If you are a peasant in a rural medieval-style town like Nibelheim, the names of food ingredients are some of the only things you are guaranteed to know. Especially when you have a single mother and no friends.
Moving to Midgar at thirteen required a trip across the globe. There was no shortcut through war-torn Wutai. At a very young age, Cloud had to learn to fend for himself or at least operate inside of a small caravan of young SOLDIER hopefuls. This would necessitate the basics of survival, which include knowing the names of fruits. And when you are travelling around to a whole bunch of different towns, priorities are figuring out what those are and acting accordingly.
Next, arriving at Midgar and entering into the Shinra military would necessitate some kind of living situation, probably Shinra-owned, with a small kitchen and a few roommates. For three years before the Nibelheim mission, Cloud was responsible for himself, and for keeping himself in top condition, and that requires training, which requires nutrition. He was a grunt which means that he doesn't have mako or Jenova enhancing his abilities, he only has sheer will. Cloud is the kind of character that would learn how to adapt to urban life, and that mean produce stores.
And in Midgar, where produce is scarce, it would have been a priority to figure out which ones contained the essential nutrients to continue life in the Shinra military. This is one of the only things that soldiers have to worry about.
Next, Cloud spent five years in a tube. Sixteen-to-twenty-one. How many fruits did you learn about in those five years of your life? It couldn't have been all of them...
Afterwards, he travelled the whole world again looking for Sephiroth, which took months at least, and after that he had two years of settling down and trying to rebuild a barren earth, and that means at least being aware of agriculture. And now he can't understand a shopping list.
I understand that we are letting them get away with murder in this Compilation business because at this point what is the use, but we should not be defending this fucktarded detail. If you want an interesting detail, why not say that Cloud can't write? It's not a skill everyone in a fantasy world knows, and Cloud never does it in the game, and it's not completely fucktarded. Or why not say that he doesn't understand alcohol? Or he loves his bike but doesn't understand it so he has to get Cid in once a week to check on it? All feasable to me.
If you are a peasant in a rural medieval-style town like Nibelheim, the names of food ingredients are some of the only things you are guaranteed to know. Especially when you have a single mother and no friends.
Moving to Midgar at thirteen required a trip across the globe. There was no shortcut through war-torn Wutai. At a very young age, Cloud had to learn to fend for himself or at least operate inside of a small caravan of young SOLDIER hopefuls. This would necessitate the basics of survival, which include knowing the names of fruits. And when you are travelling around to a whole bunch of different towns, priorities are figuring out what those are and acting accordingly.
Next, arriving at Midgar and entering into the Shinra military would necessitate some kind of living situation, probably Shinra-owned, with a small kitchen and a few roommates. For three years before the Nibelheim mission, Cloud was responsible for himself, and for keeping himself in top condition, and that requires training, which requires nutrition. He was a grunt which means that he doesn't have mako or Jenova enhancing his abilities, he only has sheer will. Cloud is the kind of character that would learn how to adapt to urban life, and that mean produce stores.
And in Midgar, where produce is scarce, it would have been a priority to figure out which ones contained the essential nutrients to continue life in the Shinra military. This is one of the only things that soldiers have to worry about.
Next, Cloud spent five years in a tube. Sixteen-to-twenty-one. How many fruits did you learn about in those five years of your life? It couldn't have been all of them...
Afterwards, he travelled the whole world again looking for Sephiroth, which took months at least, and after that he had two years of settling down and trying to rebuild a barren earth, and that means at least being aware of agriculture. And now he can't understand a shopping list.
I understand that we are letting them get away with murder in this Compilation business because at this point what is the use, but we should not be defending this fucktarded detail. If you want an interesting detail, why not say that Cloud can't write? It's not a skill everyone in a fantasy world knows, and Cloud never does it in the game, and it's not completely fucktarded. Or why not say that he doesn't understand alcohol? Or he loves his bike but doesn't understand it so he has to get Cid in once a week to check on it? All feasable to me.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
No where is it established Cloud learned, or even had to learn any of that. His mother babied him, and even told him he needed a nice strong woman to take care of him, since he wasn't one to really take care of himself.
Cloud joined the Shinra MPs before the war with Wutai hit its peak, at 14. Hell, he never really saw any action in Wutai at all. I'm not sure what a shortcut through Wutai has to do with it, seeing as how you don't have to pass through Wutai to get to Midgar from Nibelheim. Where does it say he passed through a lot of towns either?
And considering Shinra provided most supplies and basics for him, it's not like he had to even do survivalist training. He was stationed in Midgar as an MP. He wasn't a special op who saw much action at all, anywhere. He was just a grunt stationed first at Midgar, and then Junon. Those were the only two places he got stationed at in his short stint as an MP.
Again, that's your personal assumption. He's only a 13-14 year old kid. A child soldier. Expecting to him to be some survivalist prodigy when he still hasn't mastered the art of socializing or talking to girls seems a bit much. Going by the cozy, cushy conditions of the Shinra building and how SOLDIER and MPs got to live in their dormitory living situations, there isn't much credence to the idea that they had to adapt to urban life very much. Most of the things they need came from freaking vending machines or a cafeteria.
...Who said produce was scarce? Maybe for the poor fucks in the slums, but the top of the plate, Sector 0, where Shinra's elites live, is a very wealthy and comfortable area. The people who actually are part of Shinra and important, have no idea just how good they have it compared to the otherside of the plate.
Umm, considering your teenage years give the foundation of most of your adult life in terms of life skills and knowledge, suddenly going from 16 to 21, with nothing inbetween except a false reality would kinda make adapting to normal life and responsibility difficult. Especially if you're expected to know which fruits/vegetables can be used or are necessary to make alcohol. Which I'm sure isn't something that was within his personal sphere of importance in the first place.
Most teenagers begin to learn the life skills of adulthood when they reach the age of 15 to 16. From then on, they build upon those experiences and learn to be independent. Cloud essentially went from childhood to adulthood with none of the transitional teenage years to allow the transition to go smoothly. Learning how to cook and fend for himself independently isn't something one masters at the age of 14 to 15.
There's nothing fucktarded about it. Somehow thinking that spending 5 years as a braindead meat puppet and then having your actual memory completely muddled by an alien's cells, wouldn't negatively impact your ability or knoweldge on how to cook, or interefere with how to live a normal life is just ridiculous.
Cloud demonstrates reading, drinking alcohol, and other things in FFVII so your comparison's baseless.
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Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
I don't feel like I had any kind of special education or life experience, but I had most of the fruit and veg (not the rare/weird stuff) covered by age 11-12, and that wasn't down to any kind of effort on my part it was just absorbed info.
Like I could understand if CoT said there were rare and exotic things needed for the cooking, but it doesn't. Maybe something was lost in translation.
On top of that, I think Cloud would have some knowledge - living with his mother, a single parent, I don't think its outlandish to assume she might have sent him out to buy groceries once in a while.
Like I could understand if CoT said there were rare and exotic things needed for the cooking, but it doesn't. Maybe something was lost in translation.
On top of that, I think Cloud would have some knowledge - living with his mother, a single parent, I don't think its outlandish to assume she might have sent him out to buy groceries once in a while.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
The groceries were the fruits and vegetables they needed to start making alcohol for the new Seventh Heaven. When would Cloud as a 12 year old kid, need to know those type of vegetables and fruits and where to find them?
...And what grocery store is in Nibelheim? There's a general thrift store but considering his Mom did all the cooking and Cloud probably wasn't paying too much attention since he was too busy either picking fights, or being the town amateur bad asss to pay attention to what she did as a cook, I'm not seeing some weird inconsistency that he wasn't able to know what was needed to start a bar, or what needed to be on the menu. I'm not aware of many 12 year old trouble making boys that also pay close attention to how their mom's cook.
Throw ontop of that him spending 5 years in a mako induced coma, with his memories being tossed around by Jenova. Yeah, I'm really not seeing how he'd somehow just wake up socially adjusted and capable of perfect independent living.
...And what grocery store is in Nibelheim? There's a general thrift store but considering his Mom did all the cooking and Cloud probably wasn't paying too much attention since he was too busy either picking fights, or being the town amateur bad asss to pay attention to what she did as a cook, I'm not seeing some weird inconsistency that he wasn't able to know what was needed to start a bar, or what needed to be on the menu. I'm not aware of many 12 year old trouble making boys that also pay close attention to how their mom's cook.
Throw ontop of that him spending 5 years in a mako induced coma, with his memories being tossed around by Jenova. Yeah, I'm really not seeing how he'd somehow just wake up socially adjusted and capable of perfect independent living.
Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
It wasn't just alcohol, it was food too. And unless Tifa was cooking some global cuisine most of those ingredients would be bog standard recogniseable stuff.
And it wasn't a thrift store, it was a general store:
I'm not expecting Cloud to be 100% or anything, but throughout FFVII he manages to function just fine (despite the odd freakout) if we are to assume because he was locked away he doesn't know vegetables, then there should be a lot of other stuff he has no knowledge about too.
And it wasn't a thrift store, it was a general store:
I'm not expecting Cloud to be 100% or anything, but throughout FFVII he manages to function just fine (despite the odd freakout) if we are to assume because he was locked away he doesn't know vegetables, then there should be a lot of other stuff he has no knowledge about too.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Cooking for a restaurant/bar, versus just the food he's been exposed to as a young pre-teen kid wouldn't be the same. And seeing as how he comes from a backwoods town from a totally different continent, yeah. There's more than likely to be regional differences and shit he'd more than likely not remember or not even exposed to.
In FFVII, he's mostly on a 2 to 3 month mission to stop the world from getting collided with a Meteor. That's way different than actually focusing on himself, or building a life with a partner. There probably is a lot of stuff he's not quite knowledgeable about.
In FFVII, he's mostly on a 2 to 3 month mission to stop the world from getting collided with a Meteor. That's way different than actually focusing on himself, or building a life with a partner. There probably is a lot of stuff he's not quite knowledgeable about.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
- AKA
- Tim, Ryu
Okay, two things- Nibelheim is in no way, shape, or form, a 'medieval peasant village.' It's a modern mountain town.
Two, even if Cloud does have some survivalist training, knowing what's safe to eat and what it's named are very different, AND knowing the names of safe wild plants and the names of even reasonably exotic cooking ingredients are also completely different.
Two, even if Cloud does have some survivalist training, knowing what's safe to eat and what it's named are very different, AND knowing the names of safe wild plants and the names of even reasonably exotic cooking ingredients are also completely different.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Since this seems to be a fairly lively discussion, let me add my two cents worth.
Seriously, if mum does all the cooking, and the kid just eats whatever is put in front of him, I can see the kid not knowing the names for the food he ate. Particuarly if he's the silent type who doesn't ask a lot of questions, or doesn't care what he eats.
Did getting to Midgar involve an epic journey for Cloud? I always imagined he just got on a bus, changed buses in Condor Canyon and Corel, got the ferry to Junon and went to the recruiting office there. On the way he ate the packed lunch his mother made him. Or - It's even possible that recruiters went round to the towns and then shipped the boys off to Midgar in transports. You can imagine it any way you like - maybe Cloud had a big adventure getting to Midgar or maybe Shinra flew him there in one of their Gelnikas (which was the point at which Cloud discovered for the first time that he suffered from motion sickness, and the recruiting officer noted that down as a point against him).
Once in the army, he would have lived off army rations, surely? Hard tack and canned everything, Hojo's vitamin pill once a day and little in the way of anything fresh because it spoils so quickly.
It still seems pretty improbably that he wouldn't have known the names of most fruit and veg, but it's not a deal-breaker for me, I can work with it. What I do find kind of surprising is why that detail would have been put there in the first place. I think what Nojima was trying to get across was that Cloud was out of touch with the more mundane details of ordinary life. What I can easily imagine is that from time to time such things - like not knowing the names of fruit - would happen, which were small things in themselves, but a reminder to both Cloud and Tifa of everything Cloud went through.
Seriously, if mum does all the cooking, and the kid just eats whatever is put in front of him, I can see the kid not knowing the names for the food he ate. Particuarly if he's the silent type who doesn't ask a lot of questions, or doesn't care what he eats.
Did getting to Midgar involve an epic journey for Cloud? I always imagined he just got on a bus, changed buses in Condor Canyon and Corel, got the ferry to Junon and went to the recruiting office there. On the way he ate the packed lunch his mother made him. Or - It's even possible that recruiters went round to the towns and then shipped the boys off to Midgar in transports. You can imagine it any way you like - maybe Cloud had a big adventure getting to Midgar or maybe Shinra flew him there in one of their Gelnikas (which was the point at which Cloud discovered for the first time that he suffered from motion sickness, and the recruiting officer noted that down as a point against him).
Once in the army, he would have lived off army rations, surely? Hard tack and canned everything, Hojo's vitamin pill once a day and little in the way of anything fresh because it spoils so quickly.
It still seems pretty improbably that he wouldn't have known the names of most fruit and veg, but it's not a deal-breaker for me, I can work with it. What I do find kind of surprising is why that detail would have been put there in the first place. I think what Nojima was trying to get across was that Cloud was out of touch with the more mundane details of ordinary life. What I can easily imagine is that from time to time such things - like not knowing the names of fruit - would happen, which were small things in themselves, but a reminder to both Cloud and Tifa of everything Cloud went through.
Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
Yeah this, the bolded part in particular. I feel like it was a particularly clumsy way of getting that point across. It's the kind of bad writing you'd find in a bad fanfic. I think there are a million other things they could have picked to illustrate that point and, for me anyway, the fruit and veg thing sticks out like a sore thumb.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Yes, it's just lazy thinking, really. I don't know, maybe you can get away with that kind of nonsense writing a video game script, but you can't get away with it in fiction. In principle the same idea underlies Vincent not having a cell phone and not knowing where to buy one, but with Vincent the idea works because it fits with his character and also chimes with our own world - somebody who'd been out of touch with our civilisation for the last thirty years wouldn't know what a cell phone was, and really wouldn't want one either. But what kid doesn't know the names of vegetables?
Alessa Gillespie
a letter to my future self
- AKA
- Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Tifa: Cloud, could you get some corn, tomatoes, green beans, and potatoes at the store?
Cloud: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO VEGETABLES
classy square enix writing
Cloud: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO VEGETABLES
classy square enix writing
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
It would have made a fun mini game, though. He could have grown them from scratch, fighting off Peter Rabbit and giant slugs.
Octo
KULT OF KERMITU
- AKA
- Octo, Octorawk, Clarky Cat, Kissmammal2000
You do of course realise that now you've said that, its going to happen. SE will announce that they're going to make a FFVII related announcement at the next big games expo, and it'll turn out to be FFVII Vegetable Patch, which will only get released in Japan on a frigging cell phone. EDIT: In four years time.
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Unlucky
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN
Slightly modified headcanon: Cloud is naturally a shy boy before getting fucked up by Hojo. He left Nibelheim hoping for a better life and friends and thus got rid of the attitude. After escaping from the tube and fighting Sephiroth, he becomes misanthropic.
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
itt: sensitive feelings about vegetable awareness
still don't get why there's a super in-depth discussion going on about one of the stupidest details of the compilation but ok
still don't get why there's a super in-depth discussion going on about one of the stupidest details of the compilation but ok