FFVII Character Details, Easter Eggs, and General What-the-fuckery

[The Twilight Mexican]

But I never really understood that because Sephiroth was the one who said "normal members of SOLDIER," what about having it repeated it back to him changed things? Apart from the importance repeating someone's last sentence always has in anime and video games.

Well, we know Seph had a lot of pride, so it's not surprising that he would think in terms of there being normal members of SOLDIER and then himself. So, given the context of the conversation they were having, Cloud repeating it back to him and then asking "You mean you're different?" probably resulted in Seph putting two and two together (and getting five, of course, but whatever).

And JENOVA being there probably had something to do with his messed up emotional state too, as has been said.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

A possible, if crackish explanation for the Junon Cannon discrepancy:

The Junon Cannon could originally turn 360 degrees. After AVALANCHE aimed it at Midgar, Scarlet gave it a massive overhaul so it could never be aimed at Midgar again. It would at least explain why the Sister Ray can turn 360 degrees; the cannon already had the hardware for it.

 

[Aki]

But why would anyone mention Genesis in FFVII. It wasnt that he was covered up. The genesis war was 6 years prior. After that he just sort of lurked about pondering "the gift of the godess" in Banora didnt he??? All his copies would of degregated by then.

So theres no reason for people to be talking about him during the timeline of VII as its old new and he's off in deepground or his gay love cave.

We only hear about the Nibelhiem incident from Clouds distorted point of view and Seohiroths version that was just to mess with Clouds head. Cloud never met Genesis

Thats not to say people wouldnt talk about it now and again though.

 

[Roger]

Cloud never met Genesis

Yeah, he did. And he went on at least three missions concerning Genesis and Hollander, you'd think he was at least remotely briefed. In CC, Cloud knew they were gong to Nibelheim looking for Hollander's crap. and he was attacked by Genesis copies while guarding the Reactor, if not Genesis himself. Don't mind this retcon all that much, but lets not epretend it can fit with FFVII's telling of the story.

 

[Alex Strife]

Let's face it. It IS a big retcon, and if they ever remake FFVII, we're going to see Genesis there.

 

[Masamune]

Let's face it. It IS a big retcon, and if they ever remake FFVII, we're going to see Genesis there.

Don't bet on it.

Hello, Nibelheim Vers. #9732

 

[Shademp]

All I ask for is that the Turks be retconned back out of the Nibelheim event. The inclusion of Genesis doesn't disturb me. The Turks do. Fortunately we didn't see them there in Crisis Core.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Wait, isn't Cloud's real memory constructed with Tifa's help? I always took that to mean that there would be holes in his memory where she didn't know stuff about him. I mean, she didn't know Genesis was at Nibelheim or about the Mondeoheim mission. Even if Cloud did remember Genesis, it's not like he has anyone to confirm that Genesis was a real memory. For all he knows, Genesis was something Sephiroth came up with. It's not like Cloud would think to ask Shin-Ra either.

 

[Shademp]

Cloud's memories are his own. Tifa helped him remember stuff in the Lifestream Flashback event, but the idea of Cloud constructing his memories via Tifa was a lie told by Sephiroth.

I don't think the inclusion of Genesis and his copies in Nibelheim is much of a problem. When Cloud speaks to his comrades about the crisis of the planet he tells the story about how Sephiroth went bonkers. Genesis is not important to his story. Plus, as far as I know, we do not know how much of Zack's memories were told to by Cloud or how much he absorbed via the memetic powers of the Jenova Cells within him. Leaving Genesis out of the scene when Sephiroth starts doubting his own humanity could be because Cloud simply wasn't told this event by Zack, or did not "absorb" that memory.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Hey guys, on the whole "Genesis was/wasn't in Nibelheim/Sephiroth jumps to conclusions" discussion, I present this:

Not serious at all, sorry, but it had to be shared. Credit to ObstinateMelon of Deviant Art for the comic, and Tennyo for showing it to me.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I'm with Sadamp on this one. I really didn't get why Sephiroth would think that a monster and him (he looks completely human) were created by the same method in the OG. They didn't give us enough of Sephiroth's back-story in the OG for it to make sense.

The other thing I thought was weird in the OG was how Hojo made Sephiroth perfectly on the first try. The odds of something so complicated happening in the real world is nearly zero so I would have expected for there to be at least one, preferably more, Sephiroth type experiment in Shin-Ra's records somewhere.

 

[Roger]

Cloud's memories are his own. Tifa helped him remember stuff in the Lifestream Flashback event, but the idea of Cloud constructing his memories via Tifa was a lie told by Sephiroth.

I don't think the inclusion of Genesis and his copies in Nibelheim is much of a problem. When Cloud speaks to his comrades about the crisis of the planet he tells the story about how Sephiroth went bonkers. Genesis is not important to his story. Plus, as far as I know, we do not know how much of Zack's memories were told to by Cloud or how much he absorbed via the memetic powers of the Jenova Cells within him. Leaving Genesis out of the scene when Sephiroth starts doubting his own humanity could be because Cloud simply wasn't told this event by Zack, or did not "absorb" that memory.

He was desrcibed what the pod people look like but why Cloud was attacked at the time was left out? Zack is a horrible storyteller then. And why do you say that Sephiroth was lying about absorbing Tifa's memories? Even if we assume that Cloud actually was convenietly was already absorbing memories from the SOLDIER Fisrt Class he was travelling with, long before meeting Tifa made him want to appear a SOLDIER First Class, that does not explain what Cloud was like in Disc 1. Cloud didn't even remember his own childhood fully or being in love with Tifa. By all appearances he only remembered being a loner, as Tifa perceived him.

 

[Ite]

Cloud barely remembered waking up this morning. That's just Jenova/Sephiroth trying to fuck with his brain.

 

[Splintered]

I'm with Sadamp on this one. I really didn't get why Sephiroth would think that a monster and him (he looks completely human) were created by the same method in the OG. They didn't give us enough of Sephiroth's back-story in the OG for it to make sense.

The other thing I thought was weird in the OG was how Hojo made Sephiroth perfectly on the first try. The odds of something so complicated happening in the real world is nearly zero so I would have expected for there to be at least one, preferably more, Sephiroth type experiment in Shin-Ra's records somewhere.

I always assumed that Sephiroth spent a good time at the Shinra head quarters being experimented on, but this is a huge assumption on my part. Actually, there was a debate awhile ago on how Sephiroth was raised (I think MOG made the thread).

Anyway, in my own head, Sephiroth knew he wasn't completely natural, but he always thought he was "special" somehow- (ie beginnings of his megalomania and god complex). Seeing the monsters and knowing that they were also experimented on, and that his "mother" Jenova was sealed in the same room that the other monsters were- he just connected one to another. He wasn't special- he was just one of the same things in the pods.

This all accumulates with him obsessively studying to truly himself and once again reaching the conclusion that he was special and different- but now he viewed humans as lower beings.

 

[Alex Strife]

I think the fact that he knew his mother's name was Jenova, and seeing the "Jenova" room inside the reactor probably was important, too.

 

[Rostum]

Forgive me if this is really just about the original game butI just finished Crisis Core, and it seemed fairly believable. At least to me.

I guess we don't know too much about Sephiroth's history other than the obvious. But I'm sure he would have had his suspicions when seeing Jenova linked to these Mako pod creatures, and know what Hojo is like. You can also see his mind starting to snap through his body language when Zack makes a suggestion for what he is, if he is not a normal member of SOLDIER.

I think it's quite easy to sit back and observe events, and make logical decisions and conclusions. But during the heat of the moment things are quite different so I wouldn't blame Sephiroth for jumping to the conclusions that he did. Perhaps the Jenova Cells inside Sephiroth were also starting to react by being so close to Jenova?

My only confusion is why they would send SOLDIER, let alone the best 1st classes that were around at the time, and also knowing Sephiroth would see Jenova there. It didn't really seem like such an important mission, you could have gotten infantrymen and a scientist or two to fix it. Maybe I missed something.

 

[Masamune]

My only confusion is why they would send SOLDIER, let alone the best 1st classes that were around at the time, and also knowing Sephiroth would see Jenova there. It didn't really seem like such an important mission, you could have gotten infantrymen and a scientist or two to fix it. Maybe I missed something.

I always suspected Hojo had a hand in that. He probably hacked into Shinra's online schedule.

 

[Rostum]

Hojo's one batshit crazy dude.

 

[Roger]

You can also see his mind starting to snap through his body language when Zack makes a suggestion for what he is, if he is not a normal member of SOLDIER.

Body language? You mean the part where he drew out his Masamune and started slashing at thin air? Yeah, I'd say so. Like father like son.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I always suspected Hojo had a hand in that. He probably hacked into Shinra's online schedule.

I've always had my suspicions of this. It's too much of a coincidence that Hojo showed up in time to save Cloud from bleeding to death. He had to know what happened at the Nibelheim reactor somehow and there is no scene showing Zack reporting back to Shin-Ra during the entire mission. Clearly Hojo had to be in the area. I'd go so far to say that he set up the mission in the first place.

 

[Tifabelle]

Well if you believe Last Order (and BC?), a Turk called Hojo while the others were fighting. So he was at least maybe on the same continent. Maybe he was at Costa del Sol

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^I was actually glad they added that bit in LO because it explained how Hojo would know to get there when he did. It turns out that the closest town to Nibelhiem is Rocket Town so it doesn't seem that improbable that Hojo would be waiting there to get the call.

 

[Rostum]

Body language? You mean the part where he drew out his Masamune and started slashing at thin air?

You can also see his body collapse as he holds his head, as if something just hit him and broke his mind.

 

[ForceStealer]

My only confusion is why they would send SOLDIER, let alone the best 1st classes that were around at the time, and also knowing Sephiroth would see Jenova there. It didn't really seem like such an important mission, you could have gotten infantrymen and a scientist or two to fix it. Maybe I missed something.

While I wouldn't be surprised if Hojo influenced the decision to send Sephiroth, the reason SOLDIERs were sent were because of the monsters. While Sephiroth made that dragon look easy, some infantryman and a scientist would have had a significantly larger problem on their hands.

 

[Username]

Sephiroth didn't need to be there, but for the story he had to I suppose.