FFVII Character Details, Easter Eggs, and General What-the-fuckery

[Gym Leader Devil]

While I wouldn't be surprised if Hojo influenced the decision to send Sephiroth, the reason SOLDIERs were sent were because of the monsters. While Sephiroth made that dragon look easy, some infantryman and a scientist would have had a significantly larger problem on their hands.

^This is true, but in support of the "Hojo set the whole thing up" theory above, there was really no reason that they had to send Sephiroth of all people to the reactor where Jenova was kept. Sure, he and Zack were pretty much the only 1st Class SOLDIERs left at that point, but a small group of 2nd Class plus Zack to lead them would probably have been able to handle the situation (at least with Zack as he was portrayed in CC, in the OG Cloud's flashback with him in Zack's place showed the dragon easily one-shotting him if Sephy didn't kill it first).

However, I should point out that Shinra is, not to put too fine a point on it, cartoonishly incompetent as evil organizations go. They seem to mostly get through their problems on brute force alone with minimal thinking. So it still seems entirely possible that Heidegger, having taken over as the man in charge of SOLDIER after Lazard disappeared, just stupidly sent Sephiroth in. So Hojo need not have set the incident in motion, just heard Sephiroth was being sent to the Nibel Reactor and made plans to be nearby to collect "specimens" when the shit inevitably hit the fan afterward.

Edit: Cause Username put his two cents in before I did, thus making my original post make less sense

 

[Ite]

I'd like to think Hojo lost his shit when he found out they sent Sephiroth to Nibelheim.

 

[Alex Strife]

the OG Cloud's flashback with him in Zack's place showed the dragon easily one-shotting him if Sephy didn't kill it first).

I always thought that's what would have happened if Cloud was hit by the dragon, not Zack. I mean I never thought Zack had that power (or lack of).

 

[Shademp]

Passing by, sharing this beautiful background.

It is the second layer of this background.


When you play the game your vision is limited to the lower half of the second layer background. Which is a pity considering just how darn beautiful those mountains are.

 

[Ite]

That's one of my favourite maps too. I love how they played with the perspective to make it look more three-dimensional. I was tripping sober playing that dungeon.

(like the lake in the phantom forest in FFVI)

edit (in lieu of double post): So when did Sister Ray become "Sister Ray"? Scarlet makes a big to-do about it in Midgar, but you can plainly read SISTER RAY painted on the damn thing when Tifa's running on it.

 

[tibiquera]

Something I could never quite understand about FFVII: if Aeris knew that her stepmother's husband had died, how come she didn't know Zack had died?

I got the impression from the game that Aeris kinda suppressed her ancient powers and after the visit to Cosmo Canion she regained them, so it wouldn't be totally surprising that at first she wouldn't have noticed Zack's death. But how come even after her visit to Cosmo Canion and accepting her ancientness (that sounds weird in so many levels) she still didn't noticed it?

 

[ForceStealer]

Whether or not she knows is still a point of contention. Both the end of Crisis Core, and what you said about Elmyra's husband does imply that she would know. But if she did know, that makes her a huge bitch for not telling Zack's parents when they ask. So Idon't think she did. Or she was at least in denial about it. But then that starts the argument by Aerith's defenders that she wouldn't still be that weak and heartbroken over Zack. I'm not sure that not accepting he's dead without clear proof necessarily means she was a pile of depression, she's just not sure.

But anyway, its a can of worms

 

[Tifabelle]

But if she did know, that makes her a huge bitch for not telling Zack's parents when they ask.

Well she ran out of the house pretty quickly. But she does go back in to talk to his parents, doesn't she? (after Cloud speaks to her outside)

Of course this is assuming she's in your party when you go to Gongaga

 

[Elisa Maza]

No, she doesn't get back into the house, as far as I remember. She gets into Cloud's chest (what my little sister screamed when she first saw this: "They're living inside of him???" ) and off they go!

 

[Roger]

Something I could never quite understand about FFVII: if Aeris knew that her stepmother's husband had died, how come she didn't know Zack had died?

I got the impression from the game that Aeris kinda suppressed her ancient powers and after the visit to Cosmo Canion she regained them, so it wouldn't be totally surprising that at first she wouldn't have noticed Zack's death. But how come even after her visit to Cosmo Canion and accepting her ancientness (that sounds weird in so many levels) she still didn't noticed it?

Isn't it said somewhere that after Gongaga at some point Tifa tells Aeris about how her memories don't add up with Cloud's? We may not see her realise he's dead because we see the story through Cloud's perspective and they're avoiding the subject of Zack by then.

 

[tibiquera]

Here's the problem though, as far as I know Zack died a few weeks before Cloud and Aeris first met. So it would be very odd that she would be all flirtatious to Cloud when they met just a short time time Zack died. Then the way she talked to Cloud about Zack both in Midgar and on Gongaga kinda sounds as if she doesn't know he's dead. Plus on The Maiden Who Travels The Planet she's surprised to see Zack dead, although I personally don't like putting too much importance on the FFVII novelas.

Isn't it said somewhere that after Gongaga at some point Tifa tells Aeris about how her memories don't add up with Cloud's? We may not see her realise he's dead because we see the story through Cloud's perspective and they're avoiding the subject of Zack by then.

That sounds to me like the lifestream scene where Tifa explains why she wanted to keep an eye on Cloud because he was being weird. Could you be referring to scene, perhaps?

Plus I'm pretty sure if Aeris realized all of a sudden Zack was dead she wouldn't stay quiet about it.

 

[Tifabelle]

Here's the problem though, as far as I know Zack died a few weeks before Cloud and Aeris first met. So it would be very odd that she would be all flirtatious to Cloud when they met just a short time time Zack died.

To be fair, Aerith hasn't heard from Zack in 5 years... not a couple weeks.

Then the way she talked to Cloud about Zack both in Midgar and on Gongaga kinda sounds as if she doesn't know he's dead. Plus on The Maiden Who Travels The Planet she's surprised to see Zack dead, although I personally don't like putting too much importance on the FFVII novelas.

Maiden can go die. Anyway, Aerith does act in FFVII as though she is unaware of Zack's fate. It was really the ending to CC that has created stirrings of people wondering if she did in fact know, and perhaps was somewhat in denial, or if she truly in fact has no idea.

Isn't it said somewhere that after Gongaga at some point Tifa tells Aeris about how her memories don't add up with Cloud's?

There was a deleted scene to this effect, where Tifa speaks to Aerith regarding Cloud. Is that what you're talking about?

Plus I'm pretty sure if Aeris realized all of a sudden Zack was dead she wouldn't stay quiet about it.

Well we don't know of her reactions to Zack's death if she is aware of it at the end of CC. If you mean in FFVII, I don't believe his death is ever confirmed while she's alive. His death isn't confirmed until the Lifestream sequence well after Aerith's death. (It might actually only be confirmed in that optional scene?)

 

[tibiquera]

To be fair, Aerith hasn't heard from Zack in 5 years... not a couple weeks.

Still, I'd imagine she wouldn't be in the mood to get into another relationship just weeks after Zack died (that is, if my timeline is correct). Specially considering she still cared enough about him both in the playground scene in Midgar and on Gongaga,

Maiden can go die. Anyway, Aerith does act in FFVII as though she is unaware of Zack's fate. It was really the ending to CC that has created stirrings of people wondering if she did in fact know, and perhaps was somewhat in denial, or if she truly in fact has no idea.

Haven't played CC yet, so I can't really say. But being in denial is something that actually would make sense.

Well we don't know of her reactions to Zack's death if she is aware of it at the end of CC. If you mean in FFVII, I don't believe his death is ever confirmed while she's alive. His death isn't confirmed until the Lifestream sequence well after Aerith's death. (It might actually only be confirmed in that optional scene?)

I think it's only confirmed on the optional scene. But still, I'd expect some indirect reference or some odd behaviour from her that would hint something wrong's going on, but everything seems to be ok with her during the game.

 

[tibiquera]

By the way, is there a way to edit my post? I kinda screwed up on the quoting there.

 

[ForceStealer]

You will after you make a few more posts.

Well she ran out of the house pretty quickly.

Heartless move #1. And then no, as Tea-chan said, she does not go back and talk to them.

To be fair, Aerith hasn't heard from Zack in 5 years... not a couple weeks.

What tibiquera meant though was that if Aerith was able to tell he died, it would have been a couple weeks since that. Judging by her reaction in Crisis Core, or if you prefer not to use the Compilation - the fact that she tells Elmyra that her husband was killed with nothing but her Cetra-sense implies that she would have known.
But, then a lot of her actions don't make a ton of sense, and come off as really mean in the case of his parents. So like I said, I think she did feel it, but won't accept it until she knows for sure. As opposed to when she was a child and would just blurt out whatever she felt.

 

[Lord Noctis]

I maintain that she felt something bad had happened at the end of CC, but didn't actually know what it was.

 

[ForceStealer]

But again, the counter to that is why did she know when Elmyra's husband died?

 

[Tifabelle]

Heartless move #1. And then no, as Tea-chan said, she does not go back and talk to them.

Heartless? HEARLTESS? She was overcome with emotion. It's not unusual (especially in fiction/media) for a woman to do that whole "run out when feelings are hurt" thingy. I never thought of that as heartless.

I watched that video after reading Tea-chan's post, and I could have sworn she said something about going back to talk to his parents, but I guess she didn't, lawl.

Keep in mind that if she had a conversation with his parents on-screen it might have been giving too much away...so maybe that's why they didn't do it?


I kind of agree with Lord Noctis, or the possiblity of her being in denial also. Either explanation makes sense.


EDIT:

But again, the counter to that is why did she know when Elmyra's husband died?

Well this would have been about hearing the voices of the Ancients? Maybe they "told" her that Elmyra's husband died, but not about Zack. I'm totally making that up.

 

[Ite]

Another explanation would be that during the time that Elmyra's husband died, Midgar's ruination of the Planet hadn't taken as drastic an effect as it had by the time Zack died, so Aeris could still hear and speak with the Planet -- however faintly -- when she was younger and can no longer do it by the time FFVII starts (until you leave Midgar, that is)

 

[ForceStealer]

Although she does say that the Church in the slums is the one place where she could hear the voices. And even if you don't believe CC's placement of her there right as Zack dies, she was definitely there at some point after his death.

 

[Lord Noctis]

CHurch or no by the time FFVII starts Midgar and the land surrounding it are probably a lot more desolate and short on lifestream as opposed to when Aerith was a kid. The fact that she appearantly can't hear those voices away from the church, but she could when she was a kid, supports that just fine.

SO even bein at the church when Zack dies, and sensing something bad, her connection with the planet may not have been strong enough to tell what.

 

[Tifabelle]

This conversation has made me think of this quote:

"When he is late for dinner and I know he must be either having an affair or lying dead in the street, I always hope he's dead."


You know Aerith also said that the planet was noisy and she can't always make out what they're saying. So it's possible she heard one thing and not the other.

And actually she says that she "only" heard it in the Church. Although this is obv before she goes to the Temple of the Ancients where she seems to hear them loud and clear.

 

[tibiquera]

CHurch or no by the time FFVII starts Midgar and the land surrounding it are probably a lot more desolate and short on lifestream as opposed to when Aerith was a kid. The fact that she appearantly can't hear those voices away from the church, but she could when she was a kid, supports that just fine.

SO even bein at the church when Zack dies, and sensing something bad, her connection with the planet may not have been strong enough to tell what.

If that was the case, after she left Midgar she should've been able to hear the planet loud and clear, which didn't seem to be the case.

 

[Ite]

Sure it is. Hell, the whole party starts hearing the Planet after you leave Midgar, and they're not even Cetra. Although to Aeris, it probably doesn't sound like whale sex.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I'm posting from my phone... Hopefully, this will be posted correctly.

I think the best explanation about Aerith's behaviour is "bad writing" and yes, I do mean within the OG , CC be damned.

I'd post more, but I can't fell comforyable with this phone...