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FFVII Character Details, Easter Eggs, and General What-the-fuckery

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, I even annoy myself sometimes.

Whoever got to the reactor first in the OG would have found Zack, Cloud, and Tifa's Dad with Masamune shaped holes in them, and no sign at all of Sephiroth or Jenova's head beyond probably some blood. It's kind of surprising they thought he was dead at all. It makes the most sense and doesn't ruin the twist if the conclusion, is 'disappeared, presumed dead'

Was Hojo surprised when Sephiroth returned? I don't remember.

Post compilation, Player Turk may have seen him fall (probably not the whole way) but between the different instalments they've already seen Elfe/Felicia, Genesis, various Ravens and the Ravens impersonating Fuhito et al in Wutai, and as far as they know Angeal,
all return from the dead. Returning from certain death or lethal injuries is kind of a thing Mako enhanced people are wont to do, you'd kind of expect an 'ah crap, not again' reaction if anything.

Edit: Per Cissnei, the Turks are taking the possibility that Angeal is alive completely seriously, so they're getting used to mystery survivals by now.
 
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Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
We also just plain don't see the Shinra executives enough to know for sure what their initial reaction was. Heideggar and Scarlet disappeare after midgar until Junon, and there Sephiroth's return is treated as a rumor to be kept on the down low, after that he slaughters the whole crew of a ship, so there's no doubt it was really him. I don't think this was poorly handled really, just something so minor it wasn't addressed. The shinra executives are minor characters so their perspective on it doesn't matter, Cloud believes he is alive and that's enough.
 
Yes...Now if we're talking about the OG, the fact that Cloud immediately accepts that Sephiroth is alive is part of the mystery of Cloud. If anyone should know that Sephiroth is dead, he should, but he doesn't doubt for a minute that Sephiroth killed the President or that Sephiroth is 'the real threat to the planet'. His conviction is so strong, he manages to persuade all the others. In retrospect, of course, the reason he can be so certain Sephiroth is alive is because of their connection through Jenova's cells. He knows that Sephiroth is alive and he knows he has to go after him: Cloud feels this in his bones!

In the Remake, he's haunted by Sephiroth right from the get-go, but he, and we, are left in doubt as to whether the Sephiroth he sees is a hallucination, a clone, or the real thing. He really doesn't know if Sephiroth is dead or alive or what, and tbh it doesn't matter. This time around, Aerith is the one who announces that Sephiroth is the real threat to the planet, and that they must pursue him.

And yes, Clem, many people have returned from the 'dead' in the Compilation, so naturally it would come as less of a surprise to the inhbitants of this planet. But in the OG, that norm hadn't yet been established. (Also, none of the people who returned from the dead in the Compilation were actually dead. They weren't even mostly dead.)

BTW, speaking of dead things, I was replaying the second Apps battle yesterday and I noticed that Apps doesn't dissolve into mako sparkles when he dies. Maybe he's just knocked out? I can't remember whether the other bosses you fight dissolve or not.

One of the things I LOVE about Corneo's Colosseum is that after each fight you can meet your defeated opponents in one of the rest rooms - even a very dented and battered Cutty and Sweepy.
 

Cloud XVII

Rookie Adventurer
Don't know if it's been mentioned before, but anyone else notice that during the reactor 5 bombing mission, when President Shinra ambushed AVALANCHE he calls Cloud "the one who quit SOLDIER and joined AVALANCHE", even though as we know Cloud was never in SOLDIER. Always wondered if that was the President assuming he was because of his eyes, a subplot that was never expanded upon (another SOLDIER joined AVALANCHE prior to FF7?) or just an oversight in the plot.
 

Cloud XVII

Rookie Adventurer
That's why I liked the original dialogue, when President Shinra takes Cloud's uniform at face value, effectively saying, "You can hardly expect me to remember everybody who works for me. I only remember exceptional people. Like Sephiroth...."
Was it changed from one version to the next? I thought the quote I said (well, paraphrased) was from the original ?
 
Actually I believe you're right. But the impression I got was that President Shinra had had a report on Avalanche (from the Turks or some other spy department) and so was aware that they had an ex-SOLDIER among their number. That is to say, someone wearing a SOLDIER uniform. The compilation has made Cloud's anonymity less believable because, according to Crisis Core and Last Order, the Turks know exactly who he is.
 

Torrie

astray ay-ay-ay
Always wondered if that was the President assuming he was because of his eyes, a subplot that was never expanded upon (another SOLDIER joined AVALANCHE prior to FF7?) or just an oversight in the plot.
I used to ponder that as well, but I have to agree with Lic: most probably, the President was informed about Avalanche (it's just that he didn't bother to remember the name) and a SOLDIER among them. I also wondered if Cloud saying "Long time no see, President" means he'd already encountered him in person, but now I tend to think it was just an ordinary greeting like "Hello old dude, welcome to our bombing party".

The compilation has made Cloud's anonymity less believable because, according to Crisis Core and Last Order, the Turks know exactly who he is.
I believe it's only Tseng who knows who Cloud is. If the other Turks had known his name and appearance, they would have recognized him immediately, right?
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
AKA
Ody
Tseng knows Cloud through Zack, and of course Cissnei knows both but she doesn't matter to the original. I can't remember if Reno or Rude ever meet Cloud before the original.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Reno and Rude don't. Before Crisis involves them in the cover up of Nibelheim more then is ideal but it's still quite plausible neither have any idea of who Cloud is, they aren't shown to have any awareness of Angeal and the Buster Sword either.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Remake has both Reno and Rude seemingly allude to Cloud not being who he says.

Reno calls Cloud's claim of being a SOLDIER bullshit, then says "Beginner's luck" about Cloud beating him. Also, Rude replies "Same as you" when Cloud suggests the Turks put up a false persona (this is in the Japanese dialogue, by the way; it became the "All bark, no bite"/"You're one to talk" exchange in English).
 

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Remake has both Reno and Rude seemingly allude to Cloud not being who he says.

Reno calls Cloud's claim of being a SOLDIER bullshit, then says "Beginner's luck" about Cloud beating him. Also, Rude replies "Same as you" when Cloud suggests the Turks put up a false persona (this is in the Japanese dialogue, by the way; it became the "All bark, no bite"/"You're one to talk" exchange in English).

You forgot Hojo, who literally spoils the twist.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
It's sorta expected Reno would say that.
The Turks do work with SOLDIER and specifically, Reno calls out Cloud's claim of being SOLDIER 1st Class. Because the numbers of 1st Class are presumably small enough for the Turks to recognize a 1st or former 1st.
It'd be like me encountering a Marine or Secret Service Operative and claiming I'm from SEAL Team 6. That'd easily get laughed at because they're legendary and few in number. They know for sure that's not true and it's such a bullshit story to say so freely. :monster:

Rude's statement is presumably more generalized but he obviously can tell there's more to Cloud than he's saying.

I don't think it's that hard to believe Reno and Rude would not remember Cloud. They simply weren't close to him and 4 years have passed. I certainly don't remember every acquaintance I've met from 4 years ago. However, they probably would think something's weird with him using that iconic sword. Same with Tseng. Tseng might know the truth about Cloud but probably doesn't give a shit.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Reno just sees Cloud as some scrub off the street. He's salty he lost after saying all that shit to him.

He's simply disrespecting him. He doesn't think Cloud's got any cred as a warrior. It's especially apparent in his battle dialogue.

"Whatcha waitin' for, bodyguard? I'm right here!"

"Where ya goin'? I thought you were Mr. SOLDIER!"

"Awww... Come on tough guy. Step it up!"

"Hey SOLDIER Boy~"

Reno's just trash talking Cloud. It's nothing more.
 
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