FFVII Character Details, Easter Eggs, and General What-the-fuckery

[Odysseus]

We also just plain don't see the Shinra executives enough to know for sure what their initial reaction was. Heideggar and Scarlet disappeare after midgar until Junon, and there Sephiroth's return is treated as a rumor to be kept on the down low, after that he slaughters the whole crew of a ship, so there's no doubt it was really him. I don't think this was poorly handled really, just something so minor it wasn't addressed. The shinra executives are minor characters so their perspective on it doesn't matter, Cloud believes he is alive and that's enough.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes...Now if we're talking about the OG, the fact that Cloud immediately accepts that Sephiroth is alive is part of the mystery of Cloud. If anyone should know that Sephiroth is dead, he should, but he doesn't doubt for a minute that Sephiroth killed the President or that Sephiroth is 'the real threat to the planet'. His conviction is so strong, he manages to persuade all the others. In retrospect, of course, the reason he can be so certain Sephiroth is alive is because of their connection through Jenova's cells. He knows that Sephiroth is alive and he knows he has to go after him: Cloud feels this in his bones!

In the Remake, he's haunted by Sephiroth right from the get-go, but he, and we, are left in doubt as to whether the Sephiroth he sees is a hallucination, a clone, or the real thing. He really doesn't know if Sephiroth is dead or alive or what, and tbh it doesn't matter. This time around, Aerith is the one who announces that Sephiroth is the real threat to the planet, and that they must pursue him.

And yes, Clem, many people have returned from the 'dead' in the Compilation, so naturally it would come as less of a surprise to the inhbitants of this planet. But in the OG, that norm hadn't yet been established. (Also, none of the people who returned from the dead in the Compilation were actually dead. They weren't even mostly dead.)

BTW, speaking of dead things, I was replaying the second Apps battle yesterday and I noticed that Apps doesn't dissolve into mako sparkles when he dies. Maybe he's just knocked out? I can't remember whether the other bosses you fight dissolve or not.

One of the things I LOVE about Corneo's Colosseum is that after each fight you can meet your defeated opponents in one of the rest rooms - even a very dented and battered Cutty and Sweepy.

 

[Odysseus]

even a very dented and battered Cutty and Sweepy

This made me laugh a lot when I saw it. Why pile those into that room? And Sam is just mad at you for ruining his expensive robots.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

They looked so pathetic
Sam is a bird man! He should known better than to bet on inanimate objects.

 

[Cloud XVII]

Don't know if it's been mentioned before, but anyone else notice that during the reactor 5 bombing mission, when President Shinra ambushed AVALANCHE he calls Cloud "the one who quit SOLDIER and joined AVALANCHE", even though as we know Cloud was never in SOLDIER. Always wondered if that was the President assuming he was because of his eyes, a subplot that was never expanded upon (another SOLDIER joined AVALANCHE prior to FF7?) or just an oversight in the plot.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

That's why I liked the original dialogue, when President Shinra takes Cloud's uniform at face value, effectively saying, "You can hardly expect me to remember everybody who works for me. I only remember exceptional people. Like Sephiroth...."

 

[Cloud XVII]

That's why I liked the original dialogue, when President Shinra takes Cloud's uniform at face value, effectively saying, "You can hardly expect me to remember everybody who works for me. I only remember exceptional people. Like Sephiroth...."

Was it changed from one version to the next? I thought the quote I said (well, paraphrased) was from the original ?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Actually I believe you're right. But the impression I got was that President Shinra had had a report on Avalanche (from the Turks or some other spy department) and so was aware that they had an ex-SOLDIER among their number. That is to say, someone wearing a SOLDIER uniform. The compilation has made Cloud's anonymity less believable because, according to Crisis Core and Last Order, the Turks know exactly who he is.

 

[Torrie]

Always wondered if that was the President assuming he was because of his eyes, a subplot that was never expanded upon (another SOLDIER joined AVALANCHE prior to FF7?) or just an oversight in the plot.

I used to ponder that as well, but I have to agree with Lic: most probably, the President was informed about Avalanche (it's just that he didn't bother to remember the name) and a SOLDIER among them. I also wondered if Cloud saying "Long time no see, President" means he'd already encountered him in person, but now I tend to think it was just an ordinary greeting like "Hello old dude, welcome to our bombing party".

The compilation has made Cloud's anonymity less believable because, according to Crisis Core and Last Order, the Turks know exactly who he is.

I believe it's only Tseng who knows who Cloud is. If the other Turks had known his name and appearance, they would have recognized him immediately, right?

 

[Odysseus]

Tseng knows Cloud through Zack, and of course Cissnei knows both but she doesn't matter to the original. I can't remember if Reno or Rude ever meet Cloud before the original.

 

[Cloud XVII]

Reno at least acts like he doesn't know Cloud when he meets him in the Sector 5 church

 

[Roger]

Reno and Rude don't. Before Crisis involves them in the cover up of Nibelheim more then is ideal but it's still quite plausible neither have any idea of who Cloud is, they aren't shown to have any awareness of Angeal and the Buster Sword either.

 

[Odysseus]

Reno at least acts like he doesn't know Cloud when he meets him in the Sector 5 church

He has that "those were... mako eyes." That always made me wonder. It's like he was surprised to see them.

Cloud doesn't immediately introduce himself as a SOLDIER in the original version though.

 

[Clement Rage]

If Tseng knows, why does he not bother to tell anyone?

 

[Odysseus]

If Tseng knows, why does he not bother to tell anyone?

Because it's a needless retcon that overcomplicated the story he's serious about his job and doesn't care. Zack was his friend, not Cloud. Or maybe he's keeping it secret in hopes of Cloud actually getting away? Who knows.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Remake has both Reno and Rude seemingly allude to Cloud not being who he says.

Spoiler

Reno calls Cloud's claim of being a SOLDIER bullshit, then says "Beginner's luck" about Cloud beating him. Also, Rude replies "Same as you" when Cloud suggests the Turks put up a false persona (this is in the Japanese dialogue, by the way; it became the "All bark, no bite"/"You're one to talk" exchange in English).

 

[Clement Rage]

They're going to do all the things I hate in part two, aren't they?

 

[Ite]

Remake has both Reno and Rude seemingly allude to Cloud not being who he says.

Spoiler

Reno calls Cloud's claim of being a SOLDIER bullshit, then says "Beginner's luck" about Cloud beating him. Also, Rude replies "Same as you" when Cloud suggests the Turks put up a false persona (this is in the Japanese dialogue, by the way; it became the "All bark, no bite"/"You're one to talk" exchange in English).

You forgot Hojo, who literally spoils the twist.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's sorta expected Reno would say that.

Spoiler

The Turks do work with SOLDIER and specifically, Reno calls out Cloud's claim of being SOLDIER 1st Class. Because the numbers of 1st Class are presumably small enough for the Turks to recognize a 1st or former 1st.

It'd be like me encountering a Marine or Secret Service Operative and claiming I'm from SEAL Team 6. That'd easily get laughed at because they're legendary and few in number. They know for sure that's not true and it's such a bullshit story to say so freely.

Rude's statement is presumably more generalized but he obviously can tell there's more to Cloud than he's saying.

I don't think it's that hard to believe Reno and Rude would not remember Cloud. They simply weren't close to him and 4 years have passed. I certainly don't remember every acquaintance I've met from 4 years ago. However, they probably would think something's weird with him using that iconic sword. Same with Tseng. Tseng might know the truth about Cloud but probably doesn't give a shit.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah I admit I really just took Reno's remark as simply not believing him.

No denying Hojo, though.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You forgot Hojo, who literally spoils the twist.

The observation I was making is about Reno and Rude possibly recognizing Cloud, not the twist.

Yeah I admit I really just took Reno's remark as simply not believing him.

"Beginner's luck" implies more specific knowledge about Cloud than just that he's not a SOLDIER, though.

 

[ForceStealer]

Yeah I read his disbelief at Cloud calling himself a 1st Class, more than a SOLDIER.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Reno just sees Cloud as some scrub off the street. He's salty he lost after saying all that shit to him.

He's simply disrespecting him. He doesn't think Cloud's got any cred as a warrior. It's especially apparent in his battle dialogue.

"Whatcha waitin' for, bodyguard? I'm right here!"

"Where ya goin'? I thought you were Mr. SOLDIER!"

"Awww... Come on tough guy. Step it up!"

"Hey SOLDIER Boy~"

Reno's just trash talking Cloud. It's nothing more.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

But Cloud isn't there to hear him say "Beginner's luck." That line is for us, not for Cloud.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's Reno's salt.

He's mad that he's lost to the dude he spent the past several minutes talking smack to, and he's justifying the loss to himself by attributing it to "beginner's luck."

He's essentially a poor sport. It's like losing a competitive match you think you'd have in the bag and instead, you got trounced. So you justify the loss in your head as having been a result of "luck" instead of the opponent just being good or better than you. It's like self comfort.

Compare it to Rude who didn't talk nearly as much shit, when he got overpowered. He just simply said "Okay then" and steadied himself for more. Rude doesn't underestimate or disrespect those he fights, he treats them seriously.