FFVII Character Details, Easter Eggs, and General What-the-fuckery

[Ryushikaze]

Well, BC goes out for contradictions on the daily as it is.

Hey, be nice. Who are we to say the Junon cannon can't turn 360 degrees?

And fire around mountains.

I'm still saying you're not thinking with Intercontinental Firing arcs on this one, guys.

You don't NEED to rotate the gun that far if it has the projectile range.
This is one instance where BC gets a pass because FF7 already showed us that the damn thing CAN fire at least a significant portion of the planet's surface and more or less follow the curvature during that time.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm still saying you're not thinking with Intercontinental Firing arcs on this one, guys.

You don't NEED to rotate the gun that far if it has the projectile range.

So it was going to fire all the way around the planet on a trajectory that would, by necessity, take it directly across the Corel continent? =| You're not really buying what you're selling here are you, Ryu?

This is one instance where BC gets a pass because FF7 already showed us that the damn thing CAN fire at least a significant portion of the planet's surface and more or less follow the curvature during that time.

When it's hooked up to mako reactors and firing a beam of energy, sure. We don't really have any reason to believe it could do that when just firing shells.

Certainly we weren't given such a demonstration in the one scene from the original game where it was firing shells.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So it was going to fire all the way around the planet on a trajectory that would, by necessity, take it directly across the Corel continent? =| You're not really buying what you're selling here are you, Ryu?

For the gun to be an effective offensive weapon AT ALL, it needs a significant range, at least the equivalent of the Atlantic Ocean.
Given its design, it by necessity must be a long range assault weapon, similar in nature to the Megacannons of WWII.
Given it was constructed during the period of war with Wutai and yet affixed on the other side of the Corel Continent, either A: ShinRa is just as fucking dumb as AVALANCE would be, or B: It does have a significant maximum range.

When it's hooked up to mako reactors and firing a beam of energy, sure. We don't really have any reason to believe it could do that when just firing shells.

Actually, we have more reason to believe shells can do that. Energy as a rule travels linearly, not in parabolic arcs.

Certainly we weren't given such a demonstration in the one scene from the original game where it was firing shells.

True, but it was also trying to fire on something in its immediate vicinity, and having significant trouble doing so. This, it's excessively long barrel, and the low amount of local range of movement suggest that. It is not a point defense weapon, it is a Long Range Assault weapon.

I mean, we are talking about a weapon with a barrel length the rough equivalent of Midgar's Radius, and a Barrel size big enough to nearly fit the Highwind in.

So yes, I kind of have to assume it's meant to be use to alpha strike extremely long range targets. Otherwise it's a pretty dumb weapon, with a limited horizontal arc, a large vertical arc, and a slow readjustment.
It's ShinRa's Death Star Superlaser, really.

 

[ForceStealer]

I always assumed the cannon was for use against [Wutai's] Navy ships, I didn't think it was for firing directly on Wutai.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I always assumed the cannon was for use against [Wutai's] Navy ships, I didn't think it was for firing directly on Wutai.

It would still be useless in that role unless it was a long range engagement of those ships. It is not built for close range engagement. In fact, it has an entire bevy of support weapons to take care of the home defense for it. It is the Uberhowitzer.

Plus, it's overkill for just killing the Wutai Navy (which reminds me, was Wutai's navy ever mentioned? Their army and military might yes, their navy, no). The cannon is capable of firing a round, energy or no, that is capable of firing significant fractions of the planet. It was BUILT for that sort of thing.

 

[Ite]

The concept is ridiculous when you think about it, but Ryu has a point. It does seem to be the point of the Junon cannon. The hidden cannons inside the Junon paths could clearly handle a major naval assault. Even firing at a single target (Sapphire Weapon) the cannons would have obliterated any fleet approaching Junon miles before they were in normal firing range.

The absurdly large cannon was built during the war, for intercontinental firing. Maybe the shooting star that Cloud and Tifa saw seven years ago was a shell heading for Da Chao. I don't know. Maybe it was never intended to be used in the war, but more as a symbol of their might -- Shinra seems like that kind of business. Like building a giant statue of a cock. Nobody is going to fuck with someone who built a cannon that big, no matter how unwieldy it is.

 

[Shademp]

I really enjoy reading this discussion. =)

Though as I tend to do, my cop-out opinion is that the writers barely put any thought into the wieldiness of the Junon Cannon. Trying to make sense out of the origin of the cannon and whether or not it can fire transcontinental shots is to think about stuff that the scenario writers most likely never did.
Makes me think just what could be accomplished with FFVII canon if the "top minds" of TLS were put in the position to write down and establish the actual canon.

What did not strike me as odd until very recently was the fact that not only Sapphire Weapon, but Diamond Weapon TOO just happens to stand right in front of the cannon. A little bit to the right or a little bit to the left and the cannon would be no threat whatsoever. An explanation would be that the cannon poses a great threat to the planet and thus they are attracted to it. But that explanation feels too desperate and I can't watch those FMVs with the same blind eyes that I used to.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well, forgivable in Sapphire's case as there isn't really any other way to approach Junon. To attack the face of the city is to be in its line of fire. Diamond's case...not so much. He was coming from the Northern Cave which was the direction the Sister Ray was aimed, and the Weapons seem far more instinctual than anything else so they wouldn't think of the danger something posed to themselves. But still, yes, it's rather coincidental.

The cannon should probably have been mounted to that ring where the reactors are situated in such a way that it could wheel completely around the circumference of the city

It seems a good bit longer once it's placed on Midgar which no one seems to make mention of.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Good points made all around, so I'm just going to thank everyone's posts. I think Shademp probably has the right answer, though.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Out of desperation, I suggest that maybe if you jack the cannon up far enough (more than 90 degrees) the missile/mako then fired would describe a parabola that would land on Midgar? I'm not very good with mathematical terms, so I hope you can picture what I mean. I still think it's not really physically possible, though.

I agree, Shademp is right.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Gast and Ilfana's house in Icicle Inn. Why hasn't something happened to it yet? And why is there all the information in it? I mean, it's extremely stupid of Hojo to leave it there. Of course, it's not like he doesn't have a habit of doing that. He did leave all that research in Shin-Ra mansion.

 

[Tetsujin]

I always assumed the cannon was for use against [Wutai's] Navy ships, I didn't think it was for firing directly on Wutai.

Question is, why would they even come from that side? They could just cross the sea to the west of the Wutai continent and set foot on the Midgar continent from the eastern shoreline. Where the only threats are wild chocobos.

Eitherway, BC obviously means BolloCks.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Question is, why would they even come from that side? They could just cross the sea to the west of the Wutai continent and set foot on the Midgar continent from the eastern shoreline. Where the only threats are wild chocobos.

Well, quite. Which is where they ought to have put the cannon in the first place.

BC's not all bad, though.

 

[Roger]

Well they pretty much build the reactors where there's energy for them. That's what the Wutai war was about. Junon was situated on the shoreline of the southern continent, fueled by the reactor underwater and Fort Condor.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Out of desperation, I suggest that maybe if you jack the cannon up far enough (more than 90 degrees) the missile/mako then fired would describe a parabola that would land on Midgar? I'm not very good with mathematical terms, so I hope you can picture what I mean. I still think it's not really physically possible, though.

I agree, Shademp is right.

It's physically possible, but not Mechanically- they'd have to remove some of the mounts and even then I think that's beyond the gun's range of movement.

Question is, why would they even come from that side? They could just cross the sea to the west of the Wutai continent and set foot on the Midgar continent from the eastern shoreline. Where the only threats are wild chocobos.

Eitherway, BC obviously means BolloCks.

Yet another reason the gun only makes sense as a long range Alpha strike weapon.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Shinra's weapons programs seem rather short sighted for a company that began as a weapons manufacturer. I'd say that perhaps they intended to build a second Mako cannon to cover the eastern shore, perhaps atop Fort Condor since the Junon cannon was powered by Huge Materia (this would explain why they are so hot to get rid of the condor for so long, even before they start gathering the materia for the bomb, they need the space atop the reactor clear), but really that's giving them a lot more credit than they might deserve.

As for the cannon being able to rotate around to fire on Midgar? Yeah that was Squeenix just not giving a shit.

 

[KOZMIKKAT]

Ah, I see you're trying to reconcile an inconsistency between the original game and Crisis Core there. I may be able to help. Just follow my handy dandy simple "Guide to Fixing Shit from CC":

1) Ignore CC's existence entirely
2) Success!

I STRONGLY agree. I wrote a FFVII Theory Report in my journal on the SQEX Members site. Anyway I talked about how Genesis involvement in the overall plotline and history of FFVII is sooo bullshit.

For example, in CC, Genesis is the one that tells Sephiroth of the Jenova project, etc. However in the original game, Sephiroth is seen ALONE reading the reports from Professor Gast's about the Cetra and Jenova. At that moment is when Sephiroth learns of Jenova, the experiments, etc.

 

[KOZMIKKAT]

Everything that took place right before you meet Don Concero for the first time in the beginning of the game is my WTFery moment. Till this day I find it hilarious!

 

[ForceStealer]

For example, in CC, Genesis is the one that tells Sephiroth of the Jenova project, etc. However in the original game, Sephiroth is seen ALONE reading the reports from Professor Gast's about the Cetra and Jenova. At that moment is when Sephiroth learns of Jenova, the experiments, etc.

Yeah this doesn't change anything. Genesis has clearly lost it at this point in the game and Sephiroth makes it clear that while he could be telling the truth, he has literally no reason to believe him because he's a dead man walking. So he then goes to the library to research said claims.

In fact, (in the interest of being on topic) I'd go so far as to claim Sephiroth's breakdown is almost unbelievably abrupt in the original game. I still don't get what about that dude being in the mako pod made Sephiroth leap to thinking he was the same. The monster didn't look like him, it wasn't shown to fight or behave like him. Having someone suggest it actually makes a bit more sense.

If you want problems with Genesis - Shinra being able to cover up his entire existence is a much better choice. When he was not only a 1st Class SOLDIER who are apparently well known, but his face was LITERALLY all over the world with his copies. Not only that, but they attacked both of the world's major cities. There's no way Shinra have covered him up to the extent we are told they did.

 

[KOZMIKKAT]

Yeah this doesn't change anything. Genesis has clearly lost it at this point in the game and Sephiroth makes it clear that while he could be telling the truth, he has literally no reason to believe him because he's a dead man walking. So he then goes to the library to research said claims.

In fact, (in the interest of being on topic) I'd go so far as to claim Sephiroth's breakdown is almost unbelievably abrupt in the original game. I still don't get what about that dude being in the mako pod made Sephiroth leap to thinking he was the same. The monster didn't look like him, it wasn't shown to fight or behave like him. Having someone suggest it actually makes a bit more sense.

If you want problems with Genesis - Shinra being able to cover up his entire existence is a much better choice. When he was not only a 1st Class SOLDIER who are apparently well known, but his face was LITERALLY all over the world with his copies. Not only that, but they attacked both of the world's major cities. There's no way Shinra have covered him up to the extent we are told they did.

Exactly! I never understood why he compard himself to those monsters in the reactor chambers when they resemble or behave in the same manner. smh. idk.

You're right, that would be a stronger argument! I think the ONLY way ALL of that would make sense is if a remake of FFVII is made. However, it'll be like Lucas and Star Wars saga. It'll fuck it up even more than do any good. I'd rather continue to hold on to the memories of the original FFVII.

 

[GlitterBerri]

Gast and Ilfana's house in Icicle Inn. Why hasn't something happened to it yet? And why is there all the information in it? I mean, it's extremely stupid of Hojo to leave it there. Of course, it's not like he doesn't have a habit of doing that. He did leave all that research in Shin-Ra mansion.

Mentioned in Map Analysis Part 7, but Gast's house is called SNMAYOR. Does this mean Gast is the mayor of Icicle Village?

 

[Masamune]

In fact, (in the interest of being on topic) I'd go so far as to claim Sephiroth's breakdown is almost unbelievably abrupt in the original game. I still don't get what about that dude being in the mako pod made Sephiroth leap to thinking he was the same. The monster didn't look like him, it wasn't shown to fight or behave like him. Having someone suggest it actually makes a bit more sense.

But someone DOES suggest it - Cloud/Zack:

Sephiroth: Exactly. And it's Hojo of Shinra that produced these monsters.
Mutated living organisms produced by Mako energy. That's what these monster's
really are.

Cloud: Normal members of SOLDIER? You mean you're different? H…hey, Sephiroth!

Sephiroth: N…no…… …Was I?


*moments later*

Sephiroth: …I've always felt since I was small… That I was different from the
others. Special, in some way. But…not like this…

Sephiroth realizes something is amiss. He's a SOLDIER of unrivalled power, with no history of his parents. Cloud/Zack inadvertently plants a seed of doubt in his head and Sephiroth freaks out (no doubt a side-effect of Jenova).

 

[ForceStealer]

But I never really understood that because Sephiroth was the one who said "normal members of SOLDIER," what about having it repeated it back to him changed things? Apart from the importance repeating someone's last sentence always has in anime and video games.

 

[Roger]

Glad Solid Snake isn't in FFVII, Sephiroth would realise some flaw in himself every five minutes.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Once I finished the game and got my head around the story as a whole, I assumed Sephiroth's freakout was at least partly due to being so close to Jenova for the first time in who knows how long. Sensing her presence, but not knowing what it was, perhaps increased his emotional response to things, causing him to jump to conclusions more quickly instead of following his normally cold approach.