-Also from FS II: If Angeal is 16, he was born in 1976; if so, Jenova was discovered before 1977; meaning Genesis is also 16 and Project Jenova G would be started already
Angeal technically doesn't say he's 16, the line (made more vague by the English translation) just has him asking if he looks like he's 16 and/or older.
Sadly we do not have an actual birth date for Sephiroth and Angeal, we can only speculate. Angeal might lie here (lol) or could be another oversight from dev team. (Sephiroth Age source: Crisis Core Ultimania and Ultimania Volume 2 stating Sephiroth Age "Around 25")
Fan translation:
"I don't look 16?
Check after 20 years.
You might look older than me."
Fan translator notes: "The third line is fairly context dependent and also a question showing the speakers uncertainty or looking for a response. By itself it could be 'I could look younger?' as 若 means young, but 若くcan mean to equal/catch up to/overtake and in that context it can be taken as 'I might look younger (than you)?'
EC FS II:
"ソルジャーとしては駆け出しだが歳はおまえと変わらないはずだ"
Fan translation:
"As a Soldier, I'm a rookie, but I should be the same age as you."
Fan translator notes:
"変わらない" is the quantifier here, it means 'not different' but the line has no specific indications on an exact numerical value. Actual translation wouldn't be quite as stiff and would probably be with qualifiers such as 'about/around your age'; the word choice is unusual as most times we use 同じ to mean same, but the implications of a word in the negative is highlighting the fact that they aren't that different, possibly a subtle way of him trying to get to know him and thus Sephiroth's audible disgust after the line
Sadly we do not have an actual birth date for Sephiroth and Angeal, we can only speculate. Angeal might lie here (lol) or could be another oversight from dev team. (Sephiroth Age source: Crisis Core Ultimania and Ultimania Volume 2 stating Sephiroth Age "Around 25")
Fan translation:
"I don't look 16?
Check after 20 years.
You might look older than me."
Fan translator notes: "The third line is fairly context dependent and also a question showing the speakers uncertainty or looking for a response. By itself it could be 'I could look younger?' as 若 means young, but 若くcan mean to equal/catch up to/overtake and in that context it can be taken as 'I might look younger (than you)?'
EC FS II:
"ソルジャーとしては駆け出しだが歳はおまえと変わらないはずだ"
Fan translation:
"As a Soldier, I'm a rookie, but I should be the same age as you."
Fan translator notes:
"変わらない" is the quantifier here, it means 'not different' but the line has no specific indications on an exact numerical value. Actual translation wouldn't be quite as stiff and would probably be with qualifiers such as 'about/around your age'; the word choice is unusual as most times we use 同じ to mean same, but the implications of a word in the negative is highlighting the fact that they aren't that different, possibly a subtle way of him trying to get to know him and thus Sephiroth's audible disgust after the line
Right, my point with Occam's razor, even if the "１６には見えないか?" line is simply a case of accidental dev oversight, the way it's phrased still allows for wiggle room of interpreting Angeal as being younger than 16 in that scene (which is in 1992) as a valid interpretation I think (and thus doesn't necessarily contradict 1977 being the year of Jenova's discovery and Sephiroth/Angeal/Genesis's birth year).
Could be a possibility. But I would not rule out this other possibility either. Our smoking gun here is clear: Angeal is being very precise by mentioning "16".
Let's hang on for just a bit longer, until Part 3 comes along and gives us the green light on those dates.
I had a chat with search.brave.com AI for the name, long story short, I do not trust it, it is suggesting "Ultra Rhadore" but I say it's crap. Google translate gives "Welsh - detected" translating as "it's free" but also I do not trust this pattern.
PS: @BioTeach awesome!!
-I would just point out that we've got "verified" and "approved" but I would wait for Part 3 to finally get some more insight on the Jenova "discovery" date (AC has it as 1959 on Jenova's helmet but that's an "old compilation" thing)
-Also from FS II: If Angeal is 16, he was born in 1976; if so, Jenova was discovered before 1977; meaning Genesis is also 16 and Project Jenova G would be started already
I am quite curious if there'll be any association of Cetra lineage with him & Da-Chao, especially given the visual elements with Cosmo Canyon & Wutai in Remake/Rebirth.
Also, thanks for the reminder about Buno D'rhad. I totally forgot about that one, because I actually ended up being hard stuck on that fight because my TFS party wasn't well-equipped, so when I came back to it later on and blitzed through it, I forgot all about it.
That's definitely a fight I'll have to go back and check out again, especially since a lot of the times (like with Masamune) the attacks and other things carry a lot of really interesting design details (though that does also require digging through the JP & EN versions of them to get a full picture).
Even from the start, that naming scheme is something that doesn't feel instantly familiar and the JP version (ブノ・ド・ラディ) is clearly a loanword-type name – so it'll take a bit of extra poking around. Especially since "Rhad" pops up as being Welsh/Celtic in origin, it's not really helpful with "Rhadore" being the island name, and most of the island culture & names for Rhadore all have more Hawaiian parallels – and that's stuff that I'm MUCH less familiar with when it comes to mythology and having a good sense of where to dig.
The three-fingered Stigmata hands are interesting, especially as that's part of the separate target element to the boss.
"Requiem of the Damned" みちづれの葬送歌 (Funeral Song of a Traveling Companion)
"Ode of the Damned" みちづれの歌 (Song of the Traveller)
Specifically the visuals for the "Requiem of the Damned" version have a big collection of red energy overhead that fires a beam downwards, whereas the "Ode of the Damned" is similar but it's much weaker & purple. They have a very Meteor-like motif to them, and it gives off that sort of Omega Weapon-type cycle.
That along with the facial designs being especially crazy with the front of its visage being sliced off with a monstrous mouth inside it that's mostly hidden by the lower "lip" and that's tucked up into things underneath the Regi-Pokémon-like facial dots in this weird pattern of 12 with those circling interconnected lines are crazy unique, and are things that I'm keeping in mind, since it's always hard to know which design clues carry weight before doing just... a lot of research.
Well this is all just SPECTACULAR! Highest of fives & +10000 Internets to you for all of this!
The specific break downs of the dates as well as the reference to where they're from, as well as how the ones without explicit dates can be placed based on surrounding pre-established context is especially great. The day-by-day breakdowns are a really nice way to get a sense of the way everything flows, since... in all honestly the actual gameplay being released in fragments makes that a bit difficult to keep track of, so those are handy as an overview as well.
Genuinely always the best when conversation summons up someone who's been focused on that particular thing in great detail!
So in playing through the new Ever Crisis: Crisis Core chapter about the Nibelheim Incident there's something odd that stood out. In the "Genesis shows up to the reactor when Sephiroth is having a breakdown" scene he mentions Jenova arrived 1999 years ago. Now the "2000 years ago" has always felt like it's been conveyed as a rough scientific/historic estimate and not based on an explicitly known precise year – but is this suggesting that there is now an exact known year when Jenova is stated to have arrived?
You noticed that too, eh? I didn't bring it up because it has to be a huge mistake by the localisation team (like I didn't mention Jenova's brown hair... why brown? Dammit!)
As you said, in any other dialogue it's been conveyed as a rough scientific/historic estimate.
PS:
And to be clear here: I'm a big fan of the game design, music, graphics, chibi style, 3D environment, etc., even though it's just a gacha. It gives the fandom loads of news. I only get concerned when they make small errors of inconsistency.
So in playing through the new Ever Crisis: Crisis Core chapter about the Nibelheim Incident there's something odd that stood out. In the "Genesis shows up to the reactor when Sephiroth is having a breakdown" scene he mentions Jenova arrived 1999 years ago. Now the "2000 years ago" has always felt like it's been conveyed as a rough scientific/historic estimate and not based on an explicitly known precise year – but is this suggesting that there is now an exact known year when Jenova is stated to have arrived?
Could be a possibility. But I would not rule out this other possibility either. Our smoking gun here is clear: Angeal is being very precise by mentioning "16".
Let's hang on for just a bit longer, until Part 3 comes along and gives us the green light on those dates.
But Rebirth already had Sephiroth stating that Jenova was identified as an Ancient in 1977, so it seems pretty evident that the Jenova project/Sephiroth/Genesis/Angeal’s birth year is still meant to be 1977 in the Remake project.
Section 2 – Jenova Project
Q2-1: "What is the time difference between the start of Jenova Project S and Jenova Project G? And out of Genesis, Sephiroth and Angeal, is Genesis the eldest?"
A2-1: "Project S and Project G began at roughly the same time. They were lead by Hojo and Hollander respectively, and the department head Gast has little participation in either project. The order of their births goes Angeal & Genesis > Sephiroth, but it’s fine to think of them as being around the same age. Angeal and Genesis were created at roughly the same time, and were deemed as failed projects when they were babies. Project S took the results from Project G and added further improvements, so Sephiroth’s birth was later than Angeal and Genesis’."
A2-3: "Put simply, it’s a difference between when the Jenova cells were injected into the body, and the concentration and purity of the Jenova cells. Sephiroth was implanted with Jenova cells at the embryonic stage. Angeal was born from an ovum from Gillian, who has Jenova cells, and developed in her womb. Genesis was born from a fertilized egg cell unrelated to Jenova, and at the embryonic stage was implanted with genes from Gillian, who has Jenova cells. In other words, because Sephiroth received Jenova cells with a high level of purity at an early stage of development, he ends up inheriting Jenova’s abilities the best."
(source Crisis Core Ultimania Scenario Q&A)
---
7/7/1977 Jenova verified as an Ancient (verified, not discovered)
9/13/1977 Jenova Project approved (approved, not started)
---
Pregnancy lasts about nine months. If Gast found Jenova before July, then the birth date could still be 1977. But if the discovery date is meant to be July itself, then something's not adding up, is it?
Section 2 – Jenova Project
Q2-1: "What is the time difference between the start of Jenova Project S and Jenova Project G? And out of Genesis, Sephiroth and Angeal, is Genesis the eldest?"
A2-1: "Project S and Project G began at roughly the same time. They were lead by Hojo and Hollander respectively, and the department head Gast has little participation in either project. The order of their births goes Angeal & Genesis > Sephiroth, but it’s fine to think of them as being around the same age. Angeal and Genesis were created at roughly the same time, and were deemed as failed projects when they were babies. Project S took the results from Project G and added further improvements, so Sephiroth’s birth was later than Angeal and Genesis’."
A2-3: "Put simply, it’s a difference between when the Jenova cells were injected into the body, and the concentration and purity of the Jenova cells. Sephiroth was implanted with Jenova cells at the embryonic stage. Angeal was born from an ovum from Gillian, who has Jenova cells, and developed in her womb. Genesis was born from a fertilized egg cell unrelated to Jenova, and at the embryonic stage was implanted with genes from Gillian, who has Jenova cells. In other words, because Sephiroth received Jenova cells with a high level of purity at an early stage of development, he ends up inheriting Jenova’s abilities the best."
(source Crisis Core Ultimania Scenario Q&A)
---
7/7/1977 Jenova verified as an Ancient (verified, not discovered)
9/13/1977 Jenova Project approved (approved, not started)
---
Pregnancy lasts about nine months. If Gast found Jenova before July, then the birth date could still be 1977. But if the discovery date is meant to be July itself, then something's not adding up, is it?
Well the verification date doesn’t have to be the discovery date. But also Gillian and Lucrecia may have conceived Angeal and Sephiroth before the Jenova project started.
Exactly. But as we don't have all these details, it's all just speculation really. Even a cryptic "16" throw it in there by Angeal. As I said before, it'd be better to wait for Part 3 without going down the rabbit hole.
Exactly. But as we don't have all these details, it's all just speculation really. Even a cryptic "16" throw it in there by Angeal. As I said before, it'd be better to wait for Part 3 without going down the rabbit hole.
But as I said, Rebirth already explicitly uses 1977 has the Jenova verification date. That already indicates that the remake project isn’t going to have Angeal/Genesis/Sephiroth birth years be before 1977. So there isn’t much need to wait for part 3 or go down any rabbit hole.
