SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

Firstone33

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Daniel
at this point, we should see FFVIIR simply as a different version of the FFVII legend.

just like in the comics, each character has its own subseries, arcs, reboots, crossovers..

this isnt an alternate timeline, but a different interpretation of vision of what is FFVII, trying to frame this as a semi-sequel to the original will only cause more drama.
Exactly I mean that theory would be neat if true but we know it is not if it was an alternate timeline it would be a reboot not a remake
 

Noble0ne

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Noble
I'm betting there is going to be a patch

I can see SE trying to reward playing after launch day... They had a hole making of FF7r series I completely bailed on watching, once I could view the full game
 

Elisa Maza

Whomst
Oh, what's this? A theory about the ending and the whole Remake project before even the first game is released?

Well, don't mind if I do.

I'm still going to maintain the belief that Remake is actually the memories of Cloud and co., who are now dead (simply because of old age) entering the Lifestream and pouring their memories in it; Remake = Memories of the OG that the characters have. The OG has become the Planet’s memory with their passing.

That explains the small differences from the OG. Our minds embellish and forget. We never remember the things exactly as they happened. The Remake having some minor differences is the characters remembering the OG actions slightly wrongly. Take the flower, for example. In the OG, you have the option not to take it; here you take it no matter what. You had the option who to give it to; here Cloud gives it to Tifa and it suddenly means Lovers’ Reunion. The OG is the real deal; the Remake is how one character (possibly Cloud himself?) remembers it. That doesn’t harm the Lifestream flow; it’s natural we forget details of the past as we go. It’s the big events, the skeleton, the outline that remains.

This helps with the Remake and the OG co-existing, not deleting each other and allowing SE to get money from both; they’re not replacing anything, that’d be financial stupidity and harm.

The bigger differences exist because Sephiroth is messing with the Lifestream itself, since he continues to linger in it. Now that the characters’ memories have entered the Lifestream and “no one’s dead if we remember them” well, of course when entering the land of the dead, the Lifestream, Sephiroth will be powerful. He’s remembered very strongly by the characters and the Meteor he summoned is remembered by all. It burns eternal in our hearts. Not just as himself, but the memory of him is now in the Lifestream, adding to his power. Especially from Cloud’s memories. Adding the JENOVA cells that cannot be dissolved since they’re the alien element and you get Sephiroth in the Remake.

With all this power coming to him, Sephiroth is able to fulfill his words in ACC: he will never be just a memory. He’ll mess up with the memories of the OG characters. Messing up with the characters means messing up with the Lifestream and its natural flow. And messing up with the natural flow of the Lifestream… well, it kills the Planet. Sephiroth wants to enter the cycle while also keeping his personality intact and he has found his “home” in Cloud and co.’s memories of him. He messes up and touches everything while also being untouched by them, looking for the beginning of creation, the source of the Lifestream, in order to harm it. Harming it will kill the Planet and allow him and JENOVA to use it to travel into the cosmos to invade other planets.

But, Aerith exists as long Sephiroth exists. They’re Yin and Yang, Black and White. She’s a native of the Planet, so she follows the cycle and she has an… expiration date, let’s call it. She’s weakening, but still existing. She realized what Sephiroth’s plan is and sent her friends’ remnants of spirits to try and put things back as they were, fix the BIG alteration of the memories. They’re the whispers, the people from after the events of the OG, maybe even the versions of the OG characters who went on to live. They fight to remain versions of themselves that happened after the OG. If the memory of the Planet about them changes too much, they will die. Not just dissolve into the Lifestream; they’ll disappear. They’re Aerith’s allies, the ones who understand what her death and all the OG events lead up to; a living Planet, a happy ending, a life going on.

Sephiroth hates them, but he has realized that he can use them. He fools Remake!Cloud to get rid of them in order to alter their “fate”. He’s not lying; he’s telling Cloud the truth. He can alter the memories too much by getting rid of the Whispers, the ones who correct the bigger changes. He just calls it “destiny” instead of “memory”. But Remake!Cloud is a memory himself, he’s Cloud as he remembers himself in the OG and he’s completely unaware of it. All he sees is the people he cares for dying, being in danger… he’s unaware that they HAVE to die in order for the cycle to continue, for life to go on. He’s unaware of his happy ending. All he sees around him is death and suffering (the OG was NOT a happy little story, wasn’t it?) and those whispers sometimes adding to it. So, that young, unwise, trigger-happy Cloud attacks what Aerith sent to help and gets rid of them. Did he kill a version of himself? Did he kill ACC Tifa in that final battle? Probably.

And then, Sephiroth gets powerful. So powerful that he steals Aerith’s Whispers and uses them, in order for Remake!Cloud to get rid of them. And he’s successful. “The future is not yet written.” Finally, he’s free of the Whispers and he can alter the memories as much as he wants. Alter them enough for everyone to want Aerith to live. After all, nobody in the Remake world wants Aerith dead, right? That’s a bad thing that happens. They’re unaware that her death leads to the Lifestream defeating Meteor and allowing life to continue.

That’s when dream!Aerith enters. She comes to Remake!Cloud and talks to him and all her words are of the one who knows the truth: you made me happy, don’t fall in love with me; it’s fake. It’s essentially “Thanks for remembering me fondly, but I have to die. Don’t get too attached to this version of myself, because if you change my death in your memories and start truly believing that I lived, things will get distorted too much and the distortion will spread.” Remake!Aerith says that whenever the Whispers touch her, she loses a part of herself. It’s because she’s fading herself; she’s a Cetra, but she IS of the Planet and the cycle caught her, too. She cannot be ACC Aerith; knowledgeable and wise. She’s far too gone for that. And she has to play her part and not alter the memories too much herself, otherwise the same harm will come. So, we got Remake!Aerith. A mixture of ACC Aerith and OG Aerith, or at least, as Cloud and co. remember OG Aerith.

Yes, there are a LOT of faults in this theory. But I’m sticking to it, because I haaaaate time travel and paradoxes and different realities.

At least this way, there’s no sudden new element that we’ve never heard of before entering the lore; aka time travel. There’s only the Lifestream and memories; something that were already there from the OG. This way, we also have the final battle against Sephiroth. Fucker continues to mess up with the Planet for only after his death, but after everybody else’s death. By defeating him and JENOVA in death, that’s it. The story ends. We can have Nanaki and his cubs 500 years later, without any concerns, as the absolute finale of the Compilation.
Cheers.
 

pollenainne

Pro Adventurer
They should have been more upfront about their intentions, yeah, but they decided to toy with the word remake and what it means to be one to surprise us!

:(
Oh definitely. If this actually turns out to be an AU, I would be really salty about that. I mean, I don't hate AUs... but the compilation was too much for me already...

Now that I have seen the ending sequence like more than 10x it makes more and more sense to me. And I don't think that there is really an AU or time travel involved in this story. Everything can be explained without it, so why is there a need for such? They also recreated the entire Midgar sequence and hit all the key events awesomely despite some changes. It is actually a great Remake, so why throw it all away. It just doesn't make sense that they would do that... but what do I know. lol
 

Noble0ne

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Noble
Oh, what's this? A theory about the ending and the whole Remake project before even the first game is released?

Well, don't mind if I do.

I'm still going to maintain the belief that Remake is actually the memories of Cloud and co., who are now dead (simply because of old age) entering the Lifestream and pouring their memories in it; Remake = Memories of the OG that the characters have. The OG has become the Planet’s memory with their passing.

That explains the small differences from the OG. Our minds embellish and forget. We never remember the things exactly as they happened. The Remake having some minor differences is the characters remembering the OG actions slightly wrongly. Take the flower, for example. In the OG, you have the option not to take it; here you take it no matter what. You had the option who to give it to; here Cloud gives it to Tifa and it suddenly means Lovers’ Reunion. The OG is the real deal; the Remake is how one character (possibly Cloud himself?) remembers it. That doesn’t harm the Lifestream flow; it’s natural we forget details of the past as we go. It’s the big events, the skeleton, the outline that remains.

This helps with the Remake and the OG co-existing, not deleting each other and allowing SE to get money from both; they’re not replacing anything, that’d be financial stupidity and harm.

The bigger differences exist because Sephiroth is messing with the Lifestream itself, since he continues to linger in it. Now that the characters’ memories have entered the Lifestream and “no one’s dead if we remember them” well, of course when entering the land of the dead, the Lifestream, Sephiroth will be powerful. He’s remembered very strongly by the characters and the Meteor he summoned is remembered by all. It burns eternal in our hearts. Not just as himself, but the memory of him is now in the Lifestream, adding to his power. Especially from Cloud’s memories. Adding the JENOVA cells that cannot be dissolved since they’re the alien element and you get Sephiroth in the Remake.

With all this power coming to him, Sephiroth is able to fulfill his words in ACC: he will never be just a memory. He’ll mess up with the memories of the OG characters. Messing up with the characters means messing up with the Lifestream and its natural flow. And messing up with the natural flow of the Lifestream… well, it kills the Planet. Sephiroth wants to enter the cycle while also keeping his personality intact and he has found his “home” in Cloud and co.’s memories of him. He messes up and touches everything while also being untouched by them, looking for the beginning of creation, the source of the Lifestream, in order to harm it. Harming it will kill the Planet and allow him and JENOVA to use it to travel into the cosmos to invade other planets.

But, Aerith exists as long Sephiroth exists. They’re Yin and Yang, Black and White. She’s a native of the Planet, so she follows the cycle and she has an… expiration date, let’s call it. She’s weakening, but still existing. She realized what Sephiroth’s plan is and sent her friends’ remnants of spirits to try and put things back as they were, fix the BIG alteration of the memories. They’re the whispers, the people from after the events of the OG, maybe even the versions of the OG characters who went on to live. They fight to remain versions of themselves that happened after the OG. If the memory of the Planet about them changes too much, they will die. Not just dissolve into the Lifestream; they’ll disappear. They’re Aerith’s allies, the ones who understand what her death and all the OG events lead up to; a living Planet, a happy ending, a life going on.

Sephiroth hates them, but he has realized that he can use them. He fools Remake!Cloud to get rid of them in order to alter their “fate”. He’s not lying; he’s telling Cloud the truth. He can alter the memories too much by getting rid of the Whispers, the ones who correct the bigger changes. He just calls it “destiny” instead of “memory”. But Remake!Cloud is a memory himself, he’s Cloud as he remembers himself in the OG and he’s completely unaware of it. All he sees is the people he cares for dying, being in danger… he’s unaware that they HAVE to die in order for the cycle to continue, for life to go on. He’s unaware of his happy ending. All he sees around him is death and suffering (the OG was NOT a happy little story, wasn’t it?) and those whispers sometimes adding to it. So, that young, unwise, trigger-happy Cloud attacks what Aerith sent to help and gets rid of them. Did he kill a version of himself? Did he kill ACC Tifa in that final battle? Probably.

And then, Sephiroth gets powerful. So powerful that he steals Aerith’s Whispers and uses them, in order for Remake!Cloud to get rid of them. And he’s successful. “The future is not yet written.” Finally, he’s free of the Whispers and he can alter the memories as much as he wants. Alter them enough for everyone to want Aerith to live. After all, nobody in the Remake world wants Aerith dead, right? That’s a bad thing that happens. They’re unaware that her death leads to the Lifestream defeating Meteor and allowing life to continue.

That’s when dream!Aerith enters. She comes to Remake!Cloud and talks to him and all her words are of the one who knows the truth: you made me happy, don’t fall in love with me; it’s fake. It’s essentially “Thanks for remembering me fondly, but I have to die. Don’t get too attached to this version of myself, because if you change my death in your memories and start truly believing that I lived, things will get distorted too much and the distortion will spread.” Remake!Aerith says that whenever the Whispers touch her, she loses a part of herself. It’s because she’s fading herself; she’s a Cetra, but she IS of the Planet and the cycle caught her, too. She cannot be ACC Aerith; knowledgeable and wise. She’s far too gone for that. And she has to play her part and not alter the memories too much herself, otherwise the same harm will come. So, we got Remake!Aerith. A mixture of ACC Aerith and OG Aerith, or at least, as Cloud and co. remember OG Aerith.

Yes, there are a LOT of faults in this theory. But I’m sticking to it, because I haaaaate time travel and paradoxes and different realities.

At least this way, there’s no sudden new element that we’ve never heard of before entering the lore; aka time travel. There’s only the Lifestream and memories; something that were already there from the OG. This way, we also have the final battle against Sephiroth. Fucker continues to mess up with the Planet for only after his death, but after everybody else’s death. By defeating him and JENOVA in death, that’s it. The story ends. We can have Nanaki and his cubs 500 years later, without any concerns, as the absolute finale of the Compilation.
Cheers.
My goodness that actually makes sense as a possibility... I doubt it.. But its solid.

I would have never thought of that
 

Noble0ne

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Noble
Hey, I Dont actually think the FFVII-FFX connection is anymore than Fan service.

But they put the bread crumbs there for speculation...

...I Dont see any reasonable way to actually speculate about that one without it being a stretch
 
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OWA-2

Pro Adventurer
All I want now, is for them to(eventually) give an understandable explanation of how the Lifestream, time travel spectres, and even Jenova, connect to each other. Maybe something to do with the Lifestream of the universe, I don't know.
I just want a cohesive lore, with everything being linked by the Lifestream(since it's the source of everything, in the original story).
This river of souls and memories that creates life everywhere, is too much of an interesting concept, to be ignored by an unrelated plot that came out of nowhere, like time travel.

Oh, and please, don't make Sephiroth be a time traveler! This is supposed to be a remake, not a sequel.
 

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
All I want now, is for them to(eventually) give an understandable explanation of how the Lifestream, time travel spectres, and even Jenova, connect to each other. Maybe something to do with the Lifestream of the universe, I don't know.
I just want a cohesive lore, with everything being linked by the Lifestream(since it's the source of everything, in the original story).
This river of souls and memories that creates life everywhere, is too much of an interesting concept, to be ignored by an unrelated plot that came out of nowhere, like time travel.

Oh, and please, don't make Sephiroth be a time traveler! This is supposed to be a remake, not a sequel.
Tbh all could have been explained by Jenovas being an alien, but we know theyll choose the most messy and cryptic way to explain all of this
 

Noble0ne

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Noble
... Come on. Jenova and Sin have almost nothing in common. Jenova isn't a giant space-whale that uses gravity to completely obliterate whole cities :monster:
Sin always changed into the person that beat it so maybe sin getting beat by a butt tone of cetra instead of single Summoners of Yevon caused sin to evolve into Sin 2.0

Again, before you guys crucify me xD... Note, I have very very little confidence in my own logic here, Lol

I'm really poking at a notion, that I'm not convinced SE wants to put any level of mental constraint their creative direction; at least to an extent just short of KH Sora, or chars from Dissidia uni showing up. They wouldn't do that.

Yet, I could see them turning VII into something with sin 2.0 if they don't take care. On the same token, I'm more-so convinced they really do want to leave me pleasantly surprised with a masterpiece production from this wild ride when it's all said and done.
 
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Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Maybe the remake is not an alternate timeline or dimension, but the original game, just told a different way, with more bits and such. I like this idea.

EDIT: Looks like I'm on the same page as some of you.
 
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Darudius

Rookie Adventurer
AKA
Darudius
Maybe the remake is not an alternate timeline or dimension, but the original game, just told a different way, with more bits and such. I like this idea.
I like that idea a lot more but considering there was scenes of AC and the OG in visions, this feels more like a sequel, which is eh. I'm curious to see where they'll go with it but still..... I'm sceptical.
 
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