SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[jeronimus]

I just find it all very frustrating - even though it's very interesting from a meta-textual perspective.

There is a timeline of events (the OG) that some outside influence wants to remain unchanged. The Whispers feel like 'expectations' given an actual role in the story, when there was no real need for that. I was ready to accept changes without needing a convoluted in-story explanation for why. The only reason to do that is if there were big changes planned, but with this being the very end of the game, there's just a sense of unease about the future. Which may be intended, maybe this is the only way they felt this project would be interesting, but it does just disingenuous to promise a "remake of a clasic". Not to say the word "remake" would be wrong, but it feels like a "gotcha!" because that's not what anyone thinks when they hear the word.

As for me, I genuinely don't care much about the Compilation. I have no feelings about Zack; he's not one of the main characters in FF7, even though in the past 23 years he has become one. So it just tires me out to see this game end with him. I think it's mostly about not feeling excited about what's going to happen, but just dreading that this isn't what anyone, at all, actually wanted.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Creative works shouldn't just be about giving what anyone "wants."

No one "wanted" FFVII back in 1997. It was something that was itself and became what it was by drawing those to it through it's own unique authenticity.

No one goes, or should go, expecting something they immediately "want." There should be an element of spontaneity and the unknown. It should be something that draws the viewer to it. Not the other way around.

What it sounds like you're looking for, is simply a mirror. The tension and unease is clearly what the writers wished to invoke and in the long run, tease and play with in Part 2. That's simply their vision here. It would've been so easy for the writers to just backseat their own creative desire and play the Remake angle straight, right til the end. However, they chose another path. They gave those who wished to see the familiar a healthy dose of that familiarity but there's more to this than that. And it's going to be interesting to the nth degree.

 

[Wol]

That doesnt mean their creative decision be should immune to being criticised, so I dont see how that changes anything.

Its not an independent type of creative work, you are dealing with players, with needs and desires. Also they advertised this project as a remake of the original, not as a remake with KH mumbo-jumbo.

So they risked dissapointing expectations with this "surprise" catch, regardless of the validity of their creative decisions.

 

[rkss]

Is it the same necklace? I don't see it

Spoiler

 

[Tpsou]

Can anyone help me with the bird phase of the boss? Tried it once and it immediately knocked out two characters and I spent the rest of the fight desperately trying to get them up until eventually it overwhelmed us. Is it weak to something or is there a trick to it?

 

[jeronimus]

Creative works shouldn't just be about giving what anyone "wants."

While I agree with that, it's not really the point I wanted to make the most. There is a very big gap of possibilities between making a perfect copy of the original and altering the way in which the story itself functions as a story.

Even then, that doesn't have to be a problem, but my point is that overall it feels more worrying than exciting. It just gives it this strange notion that this original story wasn't deemed "interesting" enough, while it's that story that they kept saying they were going to bring to a new audience; it's that story that people did want to see properly revisited for so many years. This notion that "subverting expecations" for the sake of it is somehow creatively superior or more artistically honest to making logical, narratively sound choices, is ridiculous.

I'm not against changes, I wouldn't want to give that impression. The game does a fine enough job with small changes and embellishments which keep things interesting. It brings the characters to life in really faithful ways and that's enough to inspire some confidence - but it's still easy to start second-guessing every other choice they made.

It should be something that draws the viewer to it. Not the other way around.

I'm drawn to watching a car crash and burn, but that doesn't mean that it's the best possible choice the driver could have made, or even a good choice at all.

It would've been so easy for the writers to just backseat their own creative desire and play the Remake angle straight, right til the end.

There's a reason "kill your darlings" is the most over-used advice writers get - it's because not every harebrained idea is worth pursuing and it is genuinely hard to use restraint and strip down a story to the essential.

 

[Makoeyes987]

While I agree with that, it's not really the point I wanted to make the most. There is a very big gap of possibilities between making a perfect copy of the original and altering the way in which the story itself functions as a story.

Even then, that doesn't have to be a problem, but my point is that overall it feels more worrying than exciting. It just gives it this strange notion that this original story wasn't deemed "interesting" enough, while it's that story that they kept saying they were going to bring to a new audience; it's that story that people did want to see properly revisited for so many years. This notion that "subverting expecations" for the sake of it is somehow creatively superior or more artistically honest to making logical, narratively sound choices, is ridiculous.

They are trying to do more with a story they've done before. It's not about it not being "interesting" it's just the desire to work in more than just the same thing. It's a two-way street, they have to be motivated as well, it's not just their job to produce what is simply "product." At least if it's supposed to be more than just a simple endeavor of business. Bringing the story to a new audience doesn't imply the exact same story adapted in the same way. The OG still exists if someone is curious to know what the original was like in it's entirety. The Remake wasn't about being a complete 1:1 adaption. And creative superiority is subjective and merely a function of intention. What generates the most excitement, creative output and satisfying conclusion is one measure of best direction and I think that's how they view it. A lukewarm dish can be safe and comforting, but if the outcome is memorability, heightened interest and stimulation, going for the rote, safe path is really not the answer.

I'm not against changes, I wouldn't want to give that impression. The game does a fine enough job with small changes and embellishments which keep things interesting. It brings the characters to life in really faithful ways and that's enough to inspire some confidence - but it's still easy to start second-guessing every other choice they made.

I guess that's just a matter of faith then

I'm drawn to watching a car crash and burn, but that doesn't mean that it's the best possible choice the driver could have made, or even a good choice at all.

Depends on what type of story is being told. Any kind of ambiguity or chance will naturally dance on the edge of risk. If you wish to go fast and not play it safe, then there's always risk of a crash. But that's the entire point.

There's a reason "kill your darlings" is the most over-used advice writers get - it's because not every harebrained idea is worth pursuing and it is genuinely hard to use restraint and strip down a story to the essential.

...You're using that advice to advocate writers taking the safe route of re-treading the same narrative within a remake of a story that they've already made bank on? Somehow, I don't think that advice is applicable here.

 

[jeronimus]

...You're using that advice to advocate writers taking the safe route of re-treading the same narrative within a remake of a story that they've already made bank on? Somehow, I don't think that advice is applicable here.

There's differing degrees of this, of course. You can come across the scene where President Shinra is stabbed in the back while rewriting it and think "that is a GREAT scene, but it doesn't work as well when you take in these other factors, and just keeping that scene for the sake of it isn't worth it", yeah, that's the kind of situation that this advice applies to as well. But the idea of "we want to introduce Sephiroth early!" might be a darling in the writing of this project that they should've killed much earlier.

Of course, the inclusion of Sephiroth was a foregone conclusion, something that felt like it was going to happen no matter what. I got the impression that they felt it'd be hard to call a story FF7 if it only included Sephiroth - not that making a faithful remake with no changes would be an easier sell.

The Remake wasn't about being a complete 1:1 adaption.

And that wasn't what I was advocating. But it was repeatedly marketed to be made for newcomers to the story as well, and these decisions objectively muddle the original story with elements that weren't present. All I'm saying it that it is cause for concern. It may well end up being interesting, but it feels foreign from Final Fantasy 7. Which yes, may be the point, but it's jarring nonetheless. The promise of making a self-contained story is almost wiped off the table through metatextual references which, from my point of view, don't enhance the story, but turn it into something different.

And that may be their goal. But just because something is intended, doesn't mean it is beyond criticism. I'm apprehensive. That's all.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

You know it's a good discussion when I keep thinking "I agree" with both folks in the middle of a disagreement!

 

[ExampleZ]

Having finally beaten the game, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. Had I not already had the ending spoiled for me I probably would be raging just as hard as the rest of the internet. I'm not going to say I hated everything about the remake, I really did love the parts of the story that were faithful to the original, the portrayal of pretty much every returning character was on point and (most of) the new characters were likeable enough and gave greater depth to the lore and worldbuilding. However, the time travel nonsense really brought the game down, and the ending was just a hot mess.

For a remake that was hyped as "expanding Midgar" it certainly failed to deliver on that front. If anything it feels even more linear and restrained than the PS1 version. The new locations are hardly anything to write home about, mostly consisting of generic looking factories over and over again, and every location just feels like a series of linear hallways. The ONLY time you're ever allowed to do any kind of exploring of your own is in the few chapters which let you do sidequests, which mostly consist of generic RPG stuff i.e killing rats in an abandoned warehouse, playing hide and seek with children all over town, and so on. Otherwise you're gated off from going in any direction the game doesn't want you to go yet.

The combat is enjoyable enough, even if it could have done with a little more polish, made the animations shorter, made the abilities less OP, add some invincibility frames for dodge-roll etc. They'll probably do that in a patch anyway.

This remake has already proven to be quite polarizing, some will love it while others will hate it. While there are certain things I loved about it, particularly when it came to the characters, I'm still leaning more towards the latter camp. It's no secret that I loathe the compilation with a passion, and I still maintain that SE have completely lost the plot on how to handle the story of FF7 or any of their other games (X-2 and that godawful novel come to mind), I gave this remake a chance hoping to be proven wrong, but alas I wasn't. I'm not even sure if I'm going to be buying the next episode, maybe I'll wait until I can find it dirt cheap.

 

[Wol]

Having finally beaten the game, I'm still not sure how I feel about it. Had I not already had the ending spoiled for me I probably would be raging just as hard as the rest of the internet. I'm not going to say I hated everything about the remake, I really did love the parts of the story that were faithful to the original, the portrayal of pretty much every returning character was on point and (most of) the new characters were likeable enough and gave greater depth to the lore and worldbuilding. However, the time travel nonsense really brought the game down, and the ending was just a hot mess.

For a remake that was hyped as "expanding Midgar" it certainly failed to deliver on that front. If anything it feels even more linear and restrained than the PS1 version. The new locations are hardly anything to write home about, mostly consisting of generic looking factories over and over again, and every location just feels like a series of linear hallways. The ONLY time you're ever allowed to do any kind of exploring of your own is in the few chapters which let you do sidequests, which mostly consist of generic RPG stuff i.e killing rats in an abandoned warehouse, playing hide and seek with children all over town, and so on. Otherwise you're gated off from going in any direction the game doesn't want you to go yet.

The combat is enjoyable enough, even if it could have done with a little more polish, made the animations shorter, made the abilities less OP, add some invincibility frames for dodge-roll etc. They'll probably do that in a patch anyway.

This remake has already proven to be quite polarizing, some will love it while others will hate it. While there are certain things I loved about it, particularly when it came to the characters, I'm still leaning more towards the latter camp. It's no secret that I loathe the compilation with a passion, and I still maintain that SE have completely lost the plot on how to handle the story of FF7 or any of their other games (X-2 and that godawful novel come to mind), I gave this remake a chance hoping to be proven wrong, but alas I wasn't. I'm not even sure if I'm going to be buying the next episode, maybe I'll wait until I can find it dirt cheap.

Its even worse considering how dense FFVIIs universe is, possibilities to make interesting side-quests are endless.

Personally, if they went all the way to mess with the timeline, they could have added the option to ride the train and go to new areas like the upper plate, instead of the restrictive chapter design.

This doesnt bode well for the World Map section, I heavily expect for new story developments to be an excuse to follow this linear approach, with you being able to use vehicles to arrive at the next area and thats it.

 

[ExampleZ]

Its even worse considering how dense FFVIIs universe is, possibilities to make interesting side-quests are endless.

Personally, if they went all the way to mess with the timeline, they could have added the option to ride the train and go to new areas like the upper plate, instead of the restrictive chapter design.

This doesnt bode well for the World Map section, I heavily expect for new story developments to be an excuse to follow this linear approach, with you being able to use vehicles to arrive at the next area and thats it.

If that happened then they will have successfully pissed off the entire fandom and ensured that nobody will buy it.

 

[Eerie]

I think it's way too early to predict if the next game is going to be open world or not, when the first one hasn't even reached its official release yet. It is certainly a question most journalists will ask once they will start asking questions about the next game. So I feel that we will know fairly soon about that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

For a remake that was hyped as "expanding Midgar" it certainly failed to deliver on that front. If anything it feels even more linear and restrained than the PS1 version. The new locations are hardly anything to write home about, mostly consisting of generic looking factories over and over again, and every location just feels like a series of linear hallways. The ONLY time you're ever allowed to do any kind of exploring of your own is in the few chapters which let you do sidequests, which mostly consist of generic RPG stuff i.e killing rats in an abandoned warehouse, playing hide and seek with children all over town, and so on. Otherwise you're gated off from going in any direction the game doesn't want you to go yet.

It most certainly didn't fail at expanding Midgar. Unless you're going to somehow say the entire design and atmosphere built from the ground up, and utilized to bringing to life a 10 fold-expansion of a city beyond a handful of pre-rendered background images, was somehow non-existent. I'm not sure why you would expect the linear story of FFVII to be open-world when it never was advertised as such, and for such a concern of adhering to the original, there wouldn't even be a way to just go through every sector of the city. Already the amount of freedom afforded is at the boundaries of what you'd expect in the story of VII.

And to imply that the actual sidequests were just simply killing rats or hide and seek is to ignore the entire lines of writing, characterization and expansion to what Midgar actually was, which is what you're saying you wanted to see. The amount of character they captured in the side-stories here goes beyond what was ever present in the last of S-E's major FF games. Wall-Market, the coliseum with Scotch and Kotch, the Neighborhood Watch, etc etc. This is certainly more than what was found in VII or it's related works. I have no idea what your ideal shape of side quests are, but it's really weird how on one hand people said they wanted quests which actually expanded upon the world and its inhabitants, and then when they get them, they don't even pay attention to what the quests even are. You're not just killing rats all game, or hunting frogs, or picking up groceries, or the plethora of other generic quests going on.

Its even worse considering how dense FFVIIs universe is, possibilities to make interesting side-quests are endless.

I mean, is it really? If some are gonna just write off side quests that are already meant to expand and flesh out the setting and environment as filler, what would be the point in doing more of it?

Honestly they hit the right amount and making the game an open-world adventure would completely strain the credibility and pacing of the story. This is not FFXV and open-world is not necessary, especially VII. VII was linear by design.

Personally, if they went all the way to mess with the timeline, they could have added the option to ride the train and go to new areas like the upper plate, instead of the restrictive chapter design.

This doesnt bode well for the World Map section, I heavily expect for new story developments to be an excuse to follow this linear approach, with you being able to use vehicles to arrive at the next area and thats it.

The timeline plot was present for the conclusion of the unique Remake story exhibited. It wasn't meant to completely change the overall direction or progression of the original VII plot. So why would they try to make the Remake an open world game and fundamentally distort the pacing for the entirety of the game?

It's like people are saying they wanted a more 1:1 story, but then simultaneously wish it were open-world and completely upended with said story and it's cohesion as FFVII. And open-world for what? We've seen what Midgar has to offer and the environment of the slums and upper plate. So what is there more to extrapolate? No, VII was always linear and highly story driven with it's pace.

 

[jeronimus]

This remake has already proven to be quite polarizing, some will love it while others will hate it. While there are certain things I loved about it, particularly when it came to the characters, I'm still leaning more towards the latter camp. It's no secret that I loathe the compilation with a passion, and I still maintain that SE have completely lost the plot on how to handle the story of FF7.

I think that's exactly what I find the most disheartening about it all. The feeling that all of the excellent hard work done in this Remake of replicating story beats, of creative expansion, of adaptation and modernization, of vibrant characterization... that all of those positive feelings are overshadowed by... I mean, literal shadow creatures that one could argue represent the people who wanted a faithful remake. It's just so weird.

The timeline plot was present for the conclusion of the unique Remake story exhibited. It wasn't meant to completely change the overall direction or progression of the original VII plot.

The thing is, I don't know that you can say that for sure. This ending seems deliberately enigmatic and vague to leave things open. The characters are manipulated into defeating the force that protects the story that people know and love. Again, it's just so weird. Not good, not bad, not ugly, but weird. It leaves me with an exasperated "but why?", rather than the excited "ooh, why?" that it might be going for.

It's like people are saying they wanted a more 1:1 story, but then simultaneously wish it were open-world...

No, the second part of your sentence is a counterpoint to the accusation that's raised of people wanting a 1:1 retread. I feel like people are constantly saying they're okay with expanding the original story. That was the entire argument upon which the team tried to sell us on the idea that this first game would only be Midgar - that they'd embellish the story and that they'd show us "more of Midgar" than the original game. And I'm not saying this game hasn't done that. Even if the people complaining about busywork sidequests are the same people complaining about time ghosts, those are two different issues. One can have more than one issue with a work without those necessarily being ingrained.

Changing the pacing of a story through bonus content is a different concern than adding literal time ghosts to make sure the story doesn't change. But it becomes the same concern of course when we wonder: if they hadn't added all this extra stuff, would they've instead been able to explore more of the original story?

 

[ExampleZ]

It most certainly didn't fail at expanding Midgar. Unless you're going to somehow say the entire design and atmosphere built from the ground up, and utilized to bringing to life a 10 fold-expansion of a city beyond a handful of pre-rendered background images, was somehow non-existent. I'm not sure why you would expect the linear story of FFVII to be open-world when it never was advertised as such, and for such a concern of adhering to the original, there wouldn't even be a way to just go through every sector of the city. Already the amount of freedom afforded is at the boundaries of what you'd expect in the story of VII.

And to imply that the actual sidequests were just simply killing rats or hide and seek is to ignore the entire lines of writing, characterization and expansion to what Midgar actually was, which is what you're saying you wanted to see. The amount of character they captured in the side-stories here goes beyond what was ever present in the last of S-E's major FF games. Wall-Market, the coliseum with Scotch and Kotch, the Neighborhood Watch, etc etc. This is certainly more than what was found in VII or it's related works. I have no idea what your ideal shape of side quests are, but it's really weird how on one hand people said they wanted quests which actually expanded upon the world and its inhabitants, and then when they get them, they don't even pay attention to what the quests even are. You're not just killing rats all game, or hunting frogs, or picking up groceries, or the plethora of other generic quests going on.

Why can't there be a way to visit every sector of the city? It would still be more believable than spooky magical time ghosts, so whatever the reason was for the stifling linearity it certainly wasn't due to being faithful to the original story. Also the coliseum wasn't really a sidequest since it's mandatory for the story to progress. The actual optional side quests themselves were standard RPG stuff like I already said, and the most I can say is that some of them did add a tiny bit to the worldbuilding but that's it.

It's like people are saying they wanted a more 1:1 story, but then simultaneously wish it were open-world and completely upended with said story and it's cohesion as FFVII. And open-world for what? We've seen what Midgar has to offer and the environment of the slums and upper plate. So what is there more to extrapolate? No, VII was always linear and highly story driven with it's pace.

Obviously it's impossible for a remake of this scale to deliver a perfect 1:1 copy of the original story, and as I said before I liked what they did with the story and characters EXCEPT for the time travel nonsense. Seeing how even time travel aside they were already diverging so much from the original story surely it wouldn't have been too difficult to incorporate more exploration in both the upper and lower levels of Midgar.

 

[Noble0ne]

I would have been Team give me more Midgar to explore, for less time travel & ghost any day.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I think that's exactly what I find the most disheartening about it all. The feeling that all of the excellent hard work done in this Remake of replicating story beats, of creative expansion, of adaptation and modernization, of vibrant characterization... that all of those positive feelings are overshadowed by... I mean, literal shadow creatures that one could argue represent the people who wanted a faithful remake. It's just so weird.

One doesn't have to let shadow creatures overshadow anything. If the replicating story beats, creative expansion, adaptation and modernization, of vibrant characterization of what was expected from the OG is what you enjoyed and wished for. Congratulations, you received it. It's all is still there. Just because the unknown holds unquantified and immeasurable potential to swing either way doesn't change the fact that what was given and presented exists and was achieved. It's the fundamental of spontaneity and ambiguity. The Remake is not simply a "safe" endeavor anymore.

The thing is, I don't know that you can say that for sure. This ending seems deliberately enigmatic and vague to leave things open. The characters are manipulated into defeating the force that protects the story that people know and love. Again, it's just so weird. Not good, not bad, not ugly, but weird. It leaves me with an exasperated "but why?", rather than the excited "ooh, why?" that it might be going for.

I mean, yeah. That's accurate. However, I don't believe it will deviate so far that it would literally become completely unrecognizable. Yes, there is potential for change. No, I don't think it's gonna be changes that fundamentally re-write the metaphorical DNA of the story, since there's clearly a path and course direction they're steering towards. After all this is their Remake, but creative freedom is obviously the message and, I don't have any reason to mistrust it.

No, the second part of your sentence is a counterpoint to the accusation that's raised of people wanting a 1:1 retread. I feel like people are constantly saying they're okay with expanding the original story. That was the entire argument upon which the team tried to sell us on the idea that this first game would only be Midgar - that they'd embellish the story and that they'd show us "more of Midgar" than the original game. And I'm not saying this game hasn't done that. Even if the people complaining about busywork sidequests are the same people complaining about time ghosts, those are two different issues. One can have more than one issue with a work without those necessarily being ingrained.

They did expand the original story. They expanded it and stayed true to it's pacing and fundamentals. Midgar was expanded and the game is at least 30 hours, a sizeable length of a full length RPG. What you're talking about sounds like ultimate filler and busy work. There's absolutely zero reason to go to other sectors that have no bearing, relevance or means of travel. Especially when there's plenty of room and adaption space for what is part of the story. Cloud and the others can't move freely as they wish throughout Midgar. It's a risk as is using the means they do already. The "more than one issue" is contradictory. Less filler, but more... Pacing-muddling filler?

We've seen that already. FFXV's side quests and open world lay out run the gamut from the jovial and endearing, to the mundane and mediocre. And it wrecks the pacing of it's narrative at times. VII doesn't need that when it has fertile ground within the soil of it's setting, that lets it adhere to the plot's progression.

Changing the pacing of a story through bonus content is a different concern than adding literal time ghosts to make sure the story doesn't change. But it becomes the same concern of course when we wonder: if they hadn't added all this extra stuff, would they've instead been able to explore more of the original story?

No, because the original story has been explored and expanded. The entirety of the climax with the Arbiters of Fate happened at the conclusion. It punctuates what already has been done. So I'm not sure what supposed further exploration you could've asked for, save for random FFXV road tripping that has Cloud and the others riding through Midgar in their stolen vehicles without form or function.

Why can't there be a way to visit every sector of the city? It would still be more believable than spooky magical time ghosts, so whatever the reason was for the stifling linearity it certainly wasn't due to being faithful to the original story. Also the coliseum wasn't really a sidequest since it's mandatory for the story to progress. The actual optional side quests themselves were standard RPG stuff like I already said, and the most I can say is that some of them did add a tiny bit to the worldbuilding but that's it.

So why would they visit every sector? Every moment they move freely above the plate puts them at risk for capture or confrontation with Shinra. There is no freedom of movement when they have to rely on fake IDs and Shinra's omnipresent security looking for them 24/7. That pacing and portrayal doesn't make any sense and is shoehorning an openworld gameplay model in a clearly linear, narrative driven story. And it certainly is less believable than the Arbiters because at least the ghosts result from the magical element of the setting and Sephiroth's supernatural meddling, instead of the characters seemingly doing all manner of road tripping amidst a crisis and manhunt.

And this is ultimately an RPG. So the story will be told through RPG methods. I don't get what you were expecting. The continued questing of the coliseum is not mandatory, and you can also explore more of Wall Market and see the direction of that location as well. There's not a lack of anything to do to see an expanded and fleshed-out Midgar. It's NPCs and quests are written to express the distinct flavor and atmosphere of the slums. So there's certainly more than just a tiny bit. The actual exposition that illustrated the knowledge of Planet Theory amongst the people and how they've been so coddled and accommodated by Shinra they simply don't care, is a pretty telling perspective and fascinating examining of the public view of AVALANCHE. Likewise Kyrie and her motivation being a thief, hustler and liar also give a unique look into how life in the slums unfold. There's a lot of expansion there that's beyond just rote fetch-quests.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I don't know why everyone is so against time travel Chrono Trigger/Cross were great games Oh well I'm over here liking Doctor Who too though don't mind me!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't know why everyone is so against time travel Chrono Trigger/Cross were great games Oh well I'm over here liking Doctor Who too though don't mind me!

Oh, we love those too. I definitely do anyway. Time travel itself isn't a problem. My concern is just with what I talked about before: that they risk obfuscating the core themes of FFVII (life/death and identity) if newcomers walk away from this thinking FFVII is about fate.

But as I've said, I'm excited to see where they're going with this. I just really, really hope they preserve those other things effectively enough going forward that everyone gets that FFVII experience.

 

[Wol]

I don't know why everyone is so against time travel Chrono Trigger/Cross were great games Oh well I'm over here liking Doctor Who too though don't mind me!

CT-CC stories began with time-travel / dimensions as their main narrative focus; when you add that to a story which was never about those things theres this feeling of tonal dissonance, something that doesnt belong imo

CC is also my favorite game of all-time; those themes can work, crazy stuff can work, but there's a certain point where it can become too much, which is the case of KH, too much madness together.

FFVII already had a lot of wild themes, and they want more... Now we have hallucinations, ghosts from the future, identity disorder, aliens, lifestream, timeline getting rewritten, time-travel, eco-responsability, visions from the future, multiple dimensions, fate, etc.... good luck juggling all these themes into a coherent plot.

 

[Noble0ne]

I wonder we're all the black robe guys get there raggy hoodies. O.o

I wonder if they are going to flesh out moggie... Where all those mogfle medela come from.

 

[Back To Black]

I wonder we're all the black robe guys get there raggy hoodies. O.o

Wouldn't be surprised if there was a store in Midgar called Reggie's Robes n' Rags.

 

[Makoeyes987]

FFVII already had a lot of wild themes, and they want more... Now we have hallucinations, ghosts from the future, identity disorder, aliens, lifestream, timeline getting rewritten, time-travel, eco-responsability, visions from the future, multiple dimensions, fate, etc.... good luck juggling all these themes into a coherent plot.

I mean if Twin Peaks and Lost can do it...

 

[Wol]

I mean if Twin Peaks and Lost can do it...

If I remember well, Lost's ending was really divisive. Im not familiar with Twin Peaks, nor do I know how crazy it was but if they managed to tell a coherent story with multiple crazy thematics without feeling forced along the way, the writers of the show were REALLY good at their work.

Will Nomura/Nojima be competent enough?