SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Kain424]

Here's the thing about the Zack stuff: It's a retcon. Something to tide over fans that didn't like the grandiose "sacrifice" of Zack in Crisis Core. They turned it back into the way it was in the original.

 

[Theozilla]

@Noble0ne I am not sure if English is your first language or not, but the way you type your sentences makes it really hard to understand what you are saying at times and thus respond appropriately.

 

[LNK]

It was not only in context of the game though. That's not hard to asses. I'd that the case then throw the entire story of Zack out the window. Because we Dont know it. We one know some spikey black hair guy is with cloud and then you gotta say we have no knowledge that he died before

Or they only showed part of Zack's death scene to make us think that his story is thrown out the window.

Like I said, they did the ending like that for a reason. They don't want people to assume (which is what you're doing) exactly what is going on and what's coming next. They said they had to do this remake in a way that would make this a new experience for all of us. Not just people who have never played the OG. And so far, they did exactly what the said they would do back in 2016

 

[Noble0ne]

Here's another possibility.

Marlene could have wanted to ask Aerith if she has candy. They could pull a Rise of Skywalker and make the interrupted question entirely meaningless.

Basing conclusions on assumptions is like building a skyscraper on sand. Just super saiyan'....



Welcome to Square-Enix. Please enjoy your stay.

Lol the hole screen flashing green because she wants candy... Common you guys see what io m saying but because it can't be definitively proven doesn't mean the odds are not way more likely one way than another

 

[Noble0ne]

@Noble0ne I am not sure if English is your first language or not, but the way you type your sentences makes it really hard to understand what you are saying at times and thus respond appropriately.

I'll have to do better. I'm typing on a small phone. And auto correct is killg me. I read my own stuff like what the heck does that say... Edit edit....

 

[Theozilla]

Here's the thing about the Zack stuff: It's a retcon. Something to tide over fans that didn't like the grandiose "sacrifice" of Zack in Crisis Core. They turned it back into the way it was in the original.

Technically it seems like it’s more of a combination of the OG and CC (plus some entirely new additions since TresDias as repeatedly pointed out how the rain timing in the Remake differs from both the OG and CC) since the last stand battle and dialogue still occurs in some form.

 

[Kain424]

Is it not possible the rain timing is just a detail they didn't account for?

 

[LNK]

If it is a allusion then I'ma feel like square is going through great effort to lead me on... And ill take that as leing to me

That sucks that you would feel lied to, but that's on you. I feel the total opposite. Do I like everything that they've done in the remake? Of course not. Then again, I don't like everything from the OG. But I welcome them taking a risk by telling the FF7 story in a new way.

 

[Noble0ne]

Technically it seems like it’s more of a combination of the OG and CC (plus some entirely new additions since TresDias as repeatedly pointed out how the rain timing in the Remake differs from both the OG and CC) since the last stand battle and dialogue still occurs in some form.

What most people would infer from those differences is not that there is a new cannon rewrite overall. Small difference like the gold buster sword hilt yes. But big one's like him not ending up in the rain... Most people would take that as a change in the OG events, that were known to occur.

and that's not a stretch.

Edit* id think the rain left out of the 97' game is due to graphic capability

 

[Noble0ne]

I feel like if square comes out and flat out says sorry we lied to you. Many people would say, that's okay, I don't believe you. I'm really not here saying things that are a outlandish stretch

 

[Kain424]

Technically it seems like it’s more of a combination of the OG and CC

Kinda what I'm saying anyhow. They aren't overwriting Crisis Core. The fact Kunsel exists here (along with mention of "S and G" types of Soldiers) is proof enough of that. But adding the cold-blooded murder of Zack onto the ending of Crisis Core changes how it was presented there to more closely match the original game.

 

[Theozilla]

View attachment 5642

Is it not possible the rain timing is just a detail they didn't account for?

Oh I believe it totally can be, it’s just a detail @The Twilight Mexican has been pointing out regularly.

Kinda what I'm saying anyhow. They aren't overwriting Crisis Core. The fact Kunsel exists here (along with mention of "S and G" types of Soldiers) is proof enough of that. But adding the cold-blooded murder of Zack onto the ending of Crisis Core changes how it was presented there to more closely match the original game.

Though I will be interested if they keep the Living Legacy speech or not, especially since the Buster Sword description alludes to the lines from it.

 

[LNK]

What most people would infer from those differences is not that there is a new cannon rewrite overall. Small difference yes. But big one like him not ending up in the rain... Most people would take that as a change in the events that are know to occur and that's not a stretch.

If you look at it that way, then none of the games that showed the Nibelheim incident are in the same canon. Mako already talked about that with the differences of Sephiroth's death. None of them showed an exact 1:1 recreation

 

[Theozilla]

What most people would infer from those differences is not that there is a new cannon rewrite overall. Small difference yes. But big one's like him not ending up in the rain... Most people would take that as a change in the OG events, that we're know to occur.

and that's not a stretch.

Edit* id think the rain left out of the 97' game is due to graphic capability

The rain actually does occur in the OG, it’s just that the rain starts after Zack has been gunned down, same with Crisis Core. That’s what TresDias has been pointing out, compared to the Remake having the rain start slightly before Zack is presumably shot.

 

[Noble0ne]

That sucks that you would feel lied to, but that's on you. I feel the total opposite. Do I like everything that they've done in the remake? Of course not. Then again, I don't like everything from the OG. But I welcome them taking a risk by telling the FF7 story in a new way.

I welcome telling a story in new ways... But you don't have to lie about it to do so...

That's like getting the wrong Amazon package and saying I welcome Amazon is shipping me necessities in new ways. •_•

 

[Noble0ne]

The rain actually does occur in the OG, it’s just that the rain starts after Zack has been gunned down, same with Crisis Core. That’s what TresDias has been pointing out, compared to the Remake having the rain start slightly before Zack is presumably shot.

I see

 

[Kain424]

If they aren't merely trying to tie everything together and tell it in a bigger way, and are instead doing a COMPLETELY new thing, then it reads as a lie. That famous trailer literally said, "The promise has been made." I have to believe they are keeping that promise.

 

[Noble0ne]

I was less concerned with the one for one creation in my argument. And more so concerned with the narrative story it implies...

I'm not trying to just be on the disagreeing end. I actually think what I'm saying has merit

 

[LNK]

I welcome telling a story in new ways... But you don't have to lie about it to do so...

That's like getting the wrong amazing package and saying I welcome Amazon is shipping me necessities in new ways. •_•

That's not a valid comparison.

You may not like the end result of what we got, and that's fine. I don't blame you. I actually understand where you're coming from on some of your points. But, they did exactly what the said they would do. To accuse them of lying to you is totally wrong.

 

[Noble0ne]

Again they used semantics to pull sales and interest. That kind of corporate lingo is not 100% transparent. (Edit made opps)

Are you going to say they were 100% transparent, that they where in no way misleading?

Yes, I can be cornered into conceding this conversation. But that doesn't change the degree to which they were manipulative or disingenuous. Even if I can't give a precise percent.

 

[LNK]

If they aren't merely trying to tie everything together and tell it in a bigger way, and are instead doing a COMPLETELY new thing, then it reads as a lie. That famous trailer literally said, "The promise has been made." I have to believe they are keeping that promise.

I agree, but all I remember is they said they would remake FF7. Just because it's not exactly how the original was, it doesn't mean they lied. If they do in part 2, what they did with part 1, they will still not have lied

 

[LNK]

Again they used domestics to pull sales and interest. If kind of corporate lingo os not 100% transparent.

Are you going to say they were 100% transparent, that they where in no way misleading. It's not

Going off of their interviews, no, they were not misleading

 

[Kain424]

I agree, but all I remember is they said they would remake FF7. Just because it's not exactly how the original was, it doesn't mean they lied. If they do in part 2, what they did with part 1, they will still not have lied

I don't disagree with that. If they make another game that is 95% true to the original again, I'll be overjoyed.

 

[LNK]

I don't disagree with that. If they make another game that is 95% true to the original again, I'll be overjoyed.

Same here!

 

[Noble0ne]

I watched a lot of interviews. And I think there are things they chose not to say intentionally... Telling me a half truth can be just as bad as talking a lie...

That's like you asking me if I got your loaned car home and I say yes... But withhold telling you I crashed it so I can take a delivery fee and get the hell outta doge