SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion

[Theozilla]

I could see Red XIII wearing a Grunt suit being referenced, like as a comedic suggestion, but his actual disguise in the Remake being something like passing himself off as a enhanced Shinra hound/guard dog.

I think Cloud could still ride a Dolphin but it would probably be to a back entrance instead of vertically up to the scaffolding level.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Castiel, that was a beautiful post. You fully articulate my own feelings. I'm playing through a second time and this time around I can enjoy it for what it is, rather than grieving what it isn't.

Before the Remake came out, it was full of possibilities. It could have been everything and anything; all our dreams stood a chance of being fulfilled. Now we have what we've been given, and it isn't 100% what anyone wanted. All those hopes and dreams and possibilities are ended, and what we are left with is Square Enix's FFVII Remake. I don't know if this is exactly the game anyone on the team wanted to make, or if it is full of compromises for them, too. But I had fun playing it.

And we will always have the OG.

 

[LNK]

We should do a thread for things that people liked about the remake, and one for things they didn't like

 

[LNK]

Castiel, that was a beautiful post. You fully articulate my own feelings. I'm playing through a second time and this time around I can enjoy it for what it is, rather than grieving what it isn't.

Before the Remake came out, it was full of possibilities. It could have been everything and anything; all our dreams stood a chance of being fulfilled. Now we have what we've been given, and it isn't 100% what anyone wanted. All those hopes and dreams and possibilities are ended, and what we are left with is Square Enix's FFVII Remake. I don't know if this is exactly the game anyone on the team wanted to make, or if it is full of compromises for them, too. But I had fun playing it.

And we will always have the OG.

I agree to a certain extent.
Even if they did an exact 1:1 remake, it wouldn't have been 100% of everything people wanted. No game can ever do that. Everyone has different opinions and perspectives

 

[Tetsujin]

Saw this on reddit:

So...that's the seven seconds?

 

[badjuju]

Looks like all those "Seven Seconds in Aerith's Death" Scene" theories just got disproven?

 

[Elisa Maza]

Yeah, I figured it out a little earlier, but I had to go shopping. It's the time until the Meteor impact.

I mean, Sephiroth says "7 seconds until the end". Aerith's death is hardly the end of the story, no matter the shock (and the big twist of the game is Cloud's real self anyway).

 

[Wol]

Cloud will find himself in a situation where he has to let Seph control him... or basically turn him into his avatar, or else the entire planet will perish.

Will Cloud sacrifice himself for the greater good?

Find out on FFVII.75 ~ End of Crisis Rebirth +

 

[Tetsujin]

Final Fantasy VII -420/7 Seconds-

 

[Elisa Maza]

...we just wanted a remake with some embellishments...

 

[Interslicery]

Can anyone tell me why the characters decided to defy fate, that isn't meta bullshit, and actually relies on the characters experiences and personalities to inform their decision?

 

[badjuju]

Can anyone tell me why the characters decided to defy fate, that isn't meta bullshit, and actually relies on the characters experiences and personalities to inform their decision?

Why are you asking so many questions? Didn't you see how much Sephiroth there was in this game? Wasn't that, like, SO HYPE? You guys like Sephiroth, right?

And Butterfingers™ ! Don't forget delicious Butterfingers™ .

 

[Eerie]

@Jairus : I have reasons for not wanting Jessie alive, the primary one being that it cheapens her death and it would cheapen any death - namely Aerith's afterwards because if Jessie comes back, why not Aerith? I noticed that Biggs' death wasn't as much a big deal as Jessie's, Cloud even implies that help can come at time to save him while Jessie had Tifa crying for her, Cloud aknowledging her, etc. Imagine seeing her suddenly "oops sorry I wasn't dead in the end", it's way too bizarre and it cheapens her own death like hell, and no one dying afterwards would have the same impact on the player because once a certain NPC who was dead was not in the end.

As for how why would someone leave a memento of Jessie in Biggs' room, well, he's at the orphanage, so I'm quite sure they know him well, probably knew her too. They grew up together, so even if people don't know them, they know that those three were friends. And since Biggs was brought to the orphanage, it's quite certain that he was brought back by someone who knew him.

It's also to note that the Gold Saucer is the place where you meet up with Cait Sith for the first time (properly, at least), and I don't really see him fitting anywhere else because he's so WTF to me, so having Jessie + Cait Sith seems improbable to me.

 

[Roger]

@Jairus : I have reasons for not wanting Jessie alive, the primary one being that it cheapens her death and it would cheapen any death - namely Aerith's afterwards because if Jessie comes back, why not Aerith? I noticed that Biggs' death wasn't as much a big deal as Jessie's, Cloud even implies that help can come at time to save him while Jessie had Tifa crying for her, Cloud aknowledging her, etc. Imagine seeing her suddenly "oops sorry I wasn't dead in the end", it's way too bizarre and it cheapens her own death like hell, and no one dying afterwards would have the same impact on the player because once a certain NPC who was dead was not in the end.

As for how why would someone leave a memento of Jessie in Biggs' room, well, he's at the orphanage, so I'm quite sure they know him well, probably knew her too. They grew up together, so even if people don't know them, they know that those three were friends. And since Biggs was brought to the orphanage, it's quite certain that he was brought back by someone who knew him.

It's also to note that the Gold Saucer is the place where you meet up with Cait Sith for the first time (properly, at least), and I don't really see him fitting anywhere else because he's so WTF to me, so having Jessie + Cait Sith seems improbable to me.

I vehemetly disagree that Biggs' death somehow wasn't a big deal or is his resurrection doesn't cheapen anything as opposed to Jessie's. Cloud's conversation with Biggs absolutely implies neither were expecting him to survive, and when they talked to Barret afterward, indeed they gave him absolutely no hope of him surviving unlike Wedge or Marlene. This was crazy fate magic, it CAN do the same for Jessie. Not saying that it did but there's no reason to treat the two of them differently.

 

[Eerie]

Meh, I can live with ONE Avalanche members surviving, but 2 or 3 would be very stupid, story-telling wise. Also yeah, I did feel that Jessie's death was a bigger deal with Tifa crying by her side and all, but I might be wrong on this count and Nomura will bring her back too. It would be an oversight to let everyone survive, because we, as players, need to feel sadness when those characters we've met and come to like die. It's something we can't if everyone just survives.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Can anyone tell me why the characters decided to defy fate, that isn't meta bullshit, and actually relies on the characters experiences and personalities to inform their decision?

Sephiroth lays out his intentions quite explicitly. "All born to her, are bound to her. Should this world be unmade, so too will her children. Listen... Destiny comes."

From that point, we hear a scream from the planet as it freaks out over Sephiroth. He then simply forces his way into the planet's Singularity created by the Arbiters, and proceeds in his attempt to take seize control of it.

Aerith then explains it. "What you heard just now are the voices of the planet. Those born into this world. Who lived and who died. Who returned. They're howling in pain. They.. Their words... they don't reach him. All these moments and memories, precious and fleeting.. they're like rain rolling off his back. And when they're gone, he won't cry... or shout.. Or anything. He'd tell you that he only cares about the planet. That he'd do everything in his power to protect and preserve it. But this isn't it's supposed to be. There's no greater threat to the planet than him. Sephiroth has to be stopped. He has to be. And that's why I'm asking you to help me. I know that, together, we can do this. But if we do we'll be changing more than fate itself. If we succeed... If we win.. we'll be changing ourselves."

Those are the stakes and why they stepped up to fight Sephiroth and the Arbiters.

Because Cloud and the others beat the shit out of Whisper Harbinger and it's allies, Sephiroth ends up absorbing the entire Arbiters of Fate into himself, which allows him to ascend to a greater being. He seizes control of the planet's fate, and it's why the Midgar that exists within that space of past, present and future, became warped and under his control.

And at the start of the battle with Cloud, Sephiroth says "Fate is not to be taken lightly, Cloud."

Ultimately, he gets beaten enough by the party so that he loses command of the Whispers and they summarily explode, leaving those entities no longer around to dictate the course the planet and everyone takes. However they failed to end Sephiroth so he's still out there lurking and presumably moving on to his next scheme.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

So maybe, at the end of however many installments of the Remake we have to live through, we'll be back where we started, Midgar intact, Prez Shinra still alive (hooray?), Aerith defo still alive, Zack still alive even, who knows. By defeating Sephiroth at the centre of the earth in chapter 345,792, Avalanche don't just enable the planet to repel Meteor, they undo the entire timeline that took place under his control.

Awesome.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I don't understand this stupid way of thinking: "I want my fave to live and everything else is bad writing/missed opportunity" is so missing the point of FF7. Jessie, Wedge, Biggs, Zack, Aerith... They should die. End of. Otherwise, we're not in 7 anymore. We're in fanfic and fanfic is 99.9% of cases self-indulgent and non-entertaining for the majority of the audience except a small percentage.

Like, loving your fave and recognizing the necessity of their death so that the story won't get screwed over shouldn't be a hard thing to grasp for anyone with a brain above a monkey's.

I adore Zack. I have read tons of fanfics where he survives. But, if the game tells me that he might survive in canon, I can recognize it as a stupid thing that ruins an important aspect of the story. Same with the Avalanche trio. Someone suffocate Biggs with a pillow on that bed, fast.

I love you, Zack. Please, stay worm food forever in canon, or I'll get a tommygun in-game and shoot you dead myself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So maybe, at the end of however many installments of the Remake we have to live through, we'll be back where we started, Midgar intact, Prez Shinra still alive (hooray?), Zack still alive, who knows. By defeating Sephiroth at the centre of the earth in chapter 345,792, they don't just enable the planet to repel Meteor, the undo the entire timeline that took place under his control.

Awesome.

... Don't start the timeline stuff again, it hasn't even been 12 hours.

I love you, Zack. Please, stay worm food forever in canon, or I'll get a tommygun in-game and shoot you dead myself.

Sometimes, we must hurt the ones we love.

 

[Roger]

We see Zack face an army and the Whispers, the whispers are vanquished and suddenly, Zack sees himself survive the battle, he's as surprised as the next guy, he grabs Cloud and goes. Now, there was an army of people trying to kill Zack and maybe someone is still alive that gets a shot of, maybe. Wedge is different, no one was even involved in his death that wasn't a whisper. Jessie likewise the whispers intercepted her grenade and made it detonate in her face. These two were killed by the whispers, no one else.

Either what we saw of Zack is an alternate timeline where he can live, or it's the Zack of the same timeline and we see the whisper disappear from this timeline retroactively, at which point it stands to reason that Wedge is fine and Jessie has a chance just like Biggs. Either way, it'd be very surprised if Biggs is the only person that benefits from fate being defeated.

 

[Interslicery]

Sephiroth lays out his intentions quite explicitly. "All born to her, are bound to her. Should this world be unmade, so too will her children. Listen... Destiny comes."

"Everyone's a part of the planet. If the planet dies, everyone does. Destiny is happening."

From that point, we hear a scream from the planet as it freaks out over Sephiroth. He then simply forces his way into the planet's Singularity created by the Arbiters, and proceeds in his attempt to take seize control of it.

Sephiroth makes a portal to somewhere, and walks through.

Aerith then explains it. "What you heard just now are the voices of the planet. Those born into this world. Who lived and who died. Who returned. They're howling in pain. They.. Their words... they don't reach him. All these moments and memories, precious and fleeting.. they're like rain rolling off his back. And when they're gone, he won't cry... or shout.. Or anything. He'd tell you that he only cares about the planet. That he'd do everything in his power to protect and preserve it. But this isn't it's supposed to be. There's no greater threat to the planet than him. Sephiroth has to be stopped. He has to be. And that's why I'm asking you to help me. I know that, together, we can do this. But if we do we'll be changing more than fate itself. If we succeed... If we win.. we'll be changing ourselves."

"Seph doesnt give a shit about other people and their suffering. He says he's doing it for the planet, but it'll ultimately destroy it. So please kill fate with me."


So... Seph says it's destiny for the planet to be destroyed and walks through a hole to do or go somewhere that isn't stated.
Then Aerith says that Seph will destroy the planet.

And that's reason enough for everyone to risk their lives to try and kill a concept that's (as we know it), a part of how the universe functions?

Edit: Plus, they aren't even sure they'll be able to come back. Ontop of the last few interactions they've had with the whispers, they saved their asses. Including bringing Barret back from the dead.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, when the planet screams at the approach of the dude who says he's intending to end the planet, and you're all that stands between the planet and a Meteor Care Package, you just sometimes gotta throw down.

The Whispers were going to be taken by Sephiroth one way or another, since they had no power over him or could stop him. He was gonna figure out some way to take them over regardless. It just so happened the fight ended with him absorbing them all, so he in essence became the fate of the planet. Which means he was the one calling the shots for the Planet, and would ultimately end it.

 

[Interslicery]

The planet's been screaming the whole time tho, we just haven't heard it. Other characters have tho.

Is that what he did? I have no idea, and I doubt you thought that was his plan before you walked through the portal. His only words before then were taunting Cloud.
And the characters barely even know who this dude is. Aside from Cloud and Aerith (who knows everything) they all just know him as a war hero that disappeared.

 

[Roger]

The planet's been screaming the whole time tho, we just haven't heard it. Other characters have tho.

Is that what he did? I have no idea, and I doubt you thought that was his plan before you walked through the portal. His only words before then were taunting Cloud.
And the characters barely even know who this dude is. Aside from Cloud and Aerith (who knows everything) they all just know him as a war hero that disappeared.

Tifa also knows him as the guy killed burned her town and killed her father. Red XIII seems know a thing or two about Jenova. Barret's the only one that has no clue what's everyone is on about.

 

[Darudius]

I'm a little confused. This is all hypothetical. So theres 2 or 3 potential timelines now right? The OG, the remake one and a new one where Zack is alive, again all hypothetical. Are Biggs and potentially Jessie and wedge, alive in the remake timeline that cloud and co are in or are they alive in a different timeline?