Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Huh... I.. Beautiful.
SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 18 Spoiler Discussion
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
Sasseli
~*:Newbie:*~
I have to admit... I wouldn't totally condemn the idea of Zack (being alive in another timeline) somehow switching to the Remake timeline and meeting the others. *hides in a corner* 
Of course he'd have to lose his sword in the process. Two buster swords existing in the same timeline is a no-no.
By now I think I don't really care anymore whether the Remake story follows the original story. If they do, that's fine, if they decide to somehow return my boy to the land of the living and alter the story from there on altogether, that's also fine.
I know I'm speaking heresy here, please don't judge me. *ducks and hides*
This timeline/AU scheme just opens up so many possibilities that I can't keep my head from spinning and creating multiple (admittedly fanfiction-esque) scenarios.
Btw I interpreted Sephiroth's "Not yet" line as him knowing that he will be beaten by Cloud in the future (if the story follows the OG). And that he tries to prevent it by deceiving Cloud and the others into thinking he wants to save the world (which only Aerith knows is a lie).
Of course he'd have to lose his sword in the process. Two buster swords existing in the same timeline is a no-no.
By now I think I don't really care anymore whether the Remake story follows the original story. If they do, that's fine, if they decide to somehow return my boy to the land of the living and alter the story from there on altogether, that's also fine.
I know I'm speaking heresy here, please don't judge me. *ducks and hides*
This timeline/AU scheme just opens up so many possibilities that I can't keep my head from spinning and creating multiple (admittedly fanfiction-esque) scenarios.
Btw I interpreted Sephiroth's "Not yet" line as him knowing that he will be beaten by Cloud in the future (if the story follows the OG). And that he tries to prevent it by deceiving Cloud and the others into thinking he wants to save the world (which only Aerith knows is a lie).
oty
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- ex-soldier boy
Ok, can anybody help me with the details of the bombs Jessie made? Like, with Ultimania or game confirmations, if there are any.
So, in the first bombing mission, I read, don't remember where, that the bomb actually failed, and then the Prez blew up the reactor. So there comes the first question, did the bomb work as intended or not?
In the second bombing mission, the bomb was manipulated by Shinra, but I dont know the extension of that manipulation (did they just start the timer?) and how bad was the explosion. It seems it was pretty bad, but was it Reactor 1 kind of bad? And how much did Shinra meddle with it?
So, in the first bombing mission, I read, don't remember where, that the bomb actually failed, and then the Prez blew up the reactor. So there comes the first question, did the bomb work as intended or not?
In the second bombing mission, the bomb was manipulated by Shinra, but I dont know the extension of that manipulation (did they just start the timer?) and how bad was the explosion. It seems it was pretty bad, but was it Reactor 1 kind of bad? And how much did Shinra meddle with it?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
For No. 1, I'm not sure, tbh.
For No. 5, I think all Shinra did was remove Avalanche's remote access so that Shinra could detonate it whenever they wanted.
For No. 5, I think all Shinra did was remove Avalanche's remote access so that Shinra could detonate it whenever they wanted.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
It is curious that Jessie deliberately used a weaker blasting agent on the No. 5 reactor, and that seemingly took it out without any added punch from Heidegger's mechs -- while the more powerful explosive only managed to disable a few pipes on the No. 1 reactor.
Maybe the first bomb was dislocated or otherwise muffled just enough due to the Scorpion Sentinel's shenanigans to account for the difference in reaction?
Maybe the first bomb was dislocated or otherwise muffled just enough due to the Scorpion Sentinel's shenanigans to account for the difference in reaction?
oty
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- ex-soldier boy
That's exactly what I was wondering. It would make sense that, in reality, her first bomb just literally failed. She changed the blasting agent, and the second one actually worked. Or it just didnt suffer anything from a battle unlike the first bomb, so it worked.
It kinda makes it that, even if not as apparent, the bombings were still gonna kill a lot of people just like in the OG.
It kinda makes it that, even if not as apparent, the bombings were still gonna kill a lot of people just like in the OG.
raysa334
Lv. 1 Adventurer
- AKA
- Raysa
So... sorry if this has been discussed already, but one thing that I was really confused about in the ending is this:
Aerith, by being the last Cetra, hears the voices of the Planet and is a person who the Planet trusts with information from the future, right? That's why she seems to know more than the rest of the party, and is (maybe) on a similar level of knowledge as Sephiroth.
So, if that's the case, then why would she actively go against the will of the Planet (the Whispers) at the ending, killing "destiny"? Has she also been tricked by Sephiroth or is she just rebelling against the Planet itself?
Aerith, by being the last Cetra, hears the voices of the Planet and is a person who the Planet trusts with information from the future, right? That's why she seems to know more than the rest of the party, and is (maybe) on a similar level of knowledge as Sephiroth.
So, if that's the case, then why would she actively go against the will of the Planet (the Whispers) at the ending, killing "destiny"? Has she also been tricked by Sephiroth or is she just rebelling against the Planet itself?
LegendarySaiyan
AKA: SalihGuclu
I just got wild with an idea and wanted to share it with you all!
What if Zack is alive, but not alive in a way we think he is.
Those who played the Original FF7 knows that both Cloud and Zack was injected with Jenova Cells in order to try and recreate Sephiroth. This is just a what if and I do not have any supporting evidence that this is possible.
So with that in mind, let us say that what if Zack survives and is alive, could he be the unknown Sephiroth? Could he have transformed into Sephiroth just like how Kadaj did in the AC movie.
How would you feel about it, what are your thoughts?
What if Zack is alive, but not alive in a way we think he is.
Those who played the Original FF7 knows that both Cloud and Zack was injected with Jenova Cells in order to try and recreate Sephiroth. This is just a what if and I do not have any supporting evidence that this is possible.
So with that in mind, let us say that what if Zack survives and is alive, could he be the unknown Sephiroth? Could he have transformed into Sephiroth just like how Kadaj did in the AC movie.
How would you feel about it, what are your thoughts?
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Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
Please be excited for Part 2.
That's what I asked myself during the entire quarantine. Its known as the Nomura effect.
Neat theory Saiyan. He's just a dead man living longer, I wonder how Seph will try to profit there.
Keveh Kins
Pun Enthusiast
@LegendarySaiyan My biggest concern with that possibility is how close it is to the plot of the Kingdom Hearts games. Silver haired all powerful villain takes over the body of a young man with black spiky hair, thinks that what he's doing his actually right for the world and traverses time to do it all. 
I actually think it would make for an interesting fanfiction premise, though
I actually think it would make for an interesting fanfiction premise, though
LegendarySaiyan
AKA: SalihGuclu
I like Zack a lot, but I really hope that he stays dead in the REMAKE. I only want him playable through flashbacks of Nibelheim Incident. Aaand maybe a DLC (Like a mini version of Crisis Core with REMAKE gameplay).
I really don't like the idea of Zack being the unknown Sephiroth myself, but you never know with SE and what crazy ideas they will come up with
I really don't like the idea of Zack being the unknown Sephiroth myself, but you never know with SE and what crazy ideas they will come up with
atfour
Rookie Adventurer
I'm being nagged with the impression that the Sephiroth from the fight is, in fact, a whisper himself.
- his manner of speech differs from one in Edge of Creation (more hostile towards Cloud, using a 'watashi' pronoun)
- he literally tells Cloud not to defy destiny in the Japanese version
- the fight finale may be read as him disintegrating into whispers
- every fight in the Singularity before this one has been with whispers
- all the AC references leading up to this fight
- this would actually solve the discrepancies between ?-Sephiroth's behaviour throughout his appearances
- Harbinger may be like a Bizarro Sephiroth in the OG, nurturing the next form
The Bizarro Sephiroth assumption also kinda clicks with OG reference in terms of three forms of Seph: the fight being the obvious Safer Sephiroth with OWA and the wing, and the Edge of Creation having sooo many visual references to Naked Sephiroth.
It's probably been discussed here somewhere so maybe someone could navigate me towards this discussion? The hundred pages is something I'm not brave enough to, well, brave.
- his manner of speech differs from one in Edge of Creation (more hostile towards Cloud, using a 'watashi' pronoun)
- he literally tells Cloud not to defy destiny in the Japanese version
- the fight finale may be read as him disintegrating into whispers
- every fight in the Singularity before this one has been with whispers
- all the AC references leading up to this fight
- this would actually solve the discrepancies between ?-Sephiroth's behaviour throughout his appearances
- Harbinger may be like a Bizarro Sephiroth in the OG, nurturing the next form
The Bizarro Sephiroth assumption also kinda clicks with OG reference in terms of three forms of Seph: the fight being the obvious Safer Sephiroth with OWA and the wing, and the Edge of Creation having sooo many visual references to Naked Sephiroth.
It's probably been discussed here somewhere so maybe someone could navigate me towards this discussion? The hundred pages is something I'm not brave enough to, well, brave.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
FUCKING FINALLY THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION: How are the points distributed and how do we get the characters in the finale fight against Sephiroth. I knew it was a point based system based on how many points you got in the previous fight, ha!
ForceStealer
Double Growth
atfour
Rookie Adventurer
So, there's one more thing I wanted to write about but didn't wanna overpost.
Maybe this too has been touched upon, but I dunno where to look. It's about ending cutscene and Zack.
The scene with Zack in the ending has given rise to some fierce debate in the fandom forum of my native language, and I started digging into youtube. That's when I took notice of something peculiar: there are no whispers in pre-rendered cutscenes, all of them are in-game engine footage. Maybe the whispers as they are now just did not exist at this point. Firstly, all the epic visionary including whispers never utilized FMV, like whispers surrounding Shinra building. Secondly, the plate drop FMV sequence has a very blunt cut-in of in-game Wedge trying to chase whispers away (I'm not sure about the president) and then it returns to gloriously animated Cait Sith.
If this attests to whispers being introduced late in development, it sheds light on the nature of Zack's scene in the ending: what if, when being rendered, it was supposed to be just a metaphor, a juxtaposition of sorts, and not really an implication of Zack's possible survival?
Remember how there's a couple of frames with Zack and Cloud nearing the edge of a cliff looking similar to the scenery where Zack was killed? It may have been left unedited in the final cut because of lyrics sync or something.
My take is something like this might have happened during development:
1) Hamaguchi approached Nomura about fighting Sephiroth in Midgar and it was greenlit. Maybe it was still a point where 'living Zack' concept didn't exist and where the team was still on the path they talked about in the interview: leave everything unsuspicious aside from Biggs being alive.
2) All the FMV cutscenes have been rendered, without whispers
3) Some time passed and at least several months prior to Spring 2019 the team decided to go really crazy and introduced whispers into the plot.
It just happened to me that the Sephiroth fight which was conceived in the stage of rendering FMVs might have happened without fate/time ghosts thing: it might have been in the battle sim or video presentation room in Shinra building. It also could have been Marco or his buddy doing the job. This would (somehow) explain a really confusing plot point of video presentation room glitch, because it's never been satisfyingly touched upon - maybe, just maybe it was supposed to be a foreshadowing to a VR fight with black-caped Sephiroth.
Anyways the thing I was trying to say is, the ending cutscene was not intended to depict Zack survive his final stand, but it became such and even more confusing because of added context, and the creators just let it be, despite this questionable two-second scenery of Zack's possible death.
I'd really appreciate your opinion on that and the previous post, 'cause I really don't know if all this is just too outlandish to warrant discussion
Maybe this too has been touched upon, but I dunno where to look. It's about ending cutscene and Zack.
The scene with Zack in the ending has given rise to some fierce debate in the fandom forum of my native language, and I started digging into youtube. That's when I took notice of something peculiar: there are no whispers in pre-rendered cutscenes, all of them are in-game engine footage. Maybe the whispers as they are now just did not exist at this point. Firstly, all the epic visionary including whispers never utilized FMV, like whispers surrounding Shinra building. Secondly, the plate drop FMV sequence has a very blunt cut-in of in-game Wedge trying to chase whispers away (I'm not sure about the president) and then it returns to gloriously animated Cait Sith.
If this attests to whispers being introduced late in development, it sheds light on the nature of Zack's scene in the ending: what if, when being rendered, it was supposed to be just a metaphor, a juxtaposition of sorts, and not really an implication of Zack's possible survival?
Remember how there's a couple of frames with Zack and Cloud nearing the edge of a cliff looking similar to the scenery where Zack was killed? It may have been left unedited in the final cut because of lyrics sync or something.
My take is something like this might have happened during development:
1) Hamaguchi approached Nomura about fighting Sephiroth in Midgar and it was greenlit. Maybe it was still a point where 'living Zack' concept didn't exist and where the team was still on the path they talked about in the interview: leave everything unsuspicious aside from Biggs being alive.
2) All the FMV cutscenes have been rendered, without whispers
3) Some time passed and at least several months prior to Spring 2019 the team decided to go really crazy and introduced whispers into the plot.
It just happened to me that the Sephiroth fight which was conceived in the stage of rendering FMVs might have happened without fate/time ghosts thing: it might have been in the battle sim or video presentation room in Shinra building. It also could have been Marco or his buddy doing the job. This would (somehow) explain a really confusing plot point of video presentation room glitch, because it's never been satisfyingly touched upon - maybe, just maybe it was supposed to be a foreshadowing to a VR fight with black-caped Sephiroth.
Anyways the thing I was trying to say is, the ending cutscene was not intended to depict Zack survive his final stand, but it became such and even more confusing because of added context, and the creators just let it be, despite this questionable two-second scenery of Zack's possible death.
I'd really appreciate your opinion on that and the previous post, 'cause I really don't know if all this is just too outlandish to warrant discussion
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
It's pretty outlandish, honestly. Purely speculation that we really don't have any basis to think happened.I'd really appreciate your opinion on that and the previous post, 'cause I really don't know if all this is just too outlandish to warrant discussion
atfour
Rookie Adventurer
Oh, I see. Thanks for your reply
Eerie
Fire and Blood
This is what I first believe, but with the Ultimania highlighting Zack being alive and the new Stamp, we're just on other territories I don't really want to think about until they resolve that lol.
atfour
Rookie Adventurer
Yeah, it will probably get pretty wild from here.
It's just that the debate I witnessed was really heated with people bringing up that shot of Cloud and Zack walking towards the cliff and measuring distance to Midgar, so it occurred to me that it might have been created at different point in time so both sides would be right in a sense. The tie-in commentary they came up with in Ultimania does not exactly dispel this supposition but it is, without a doubt, creators' last word for now and main source of information for deriving their plot intentions.