SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 9 Spoiler Discussion

[Makoeyes987]

Oh my fucking god.

That Honey Bee Inn performance was off the chain.

That rhythm game would've been easy to perfect if not for the amazing fucking spectacle that kept blowing my mind and making me want to watch.

They straight up went Moulin Rouge up in this Remake.

And... I cannot. Fucking believe. The dress Cloud's in.

I didn't know Cloud could be put in a goddamn corset. It's like he's got a gothic princess vibe going on here. The black ribbon, fishnet sleeves. Dark blue corset with an X on it. LMAO omg.

I love how Cloud was so damn embarrassed you couldn't even control him. Aerith had to try to speak to him, LOLOL

This is was incredible.

 

[Odysseus]

Oh my fucking god.

That Honey Bee Inn performance was off the chain.

That rhythm game would've been easy to perfect if not for the amazing fucking spectacle that kept blowing my mind and making me want to watch.

They straight up went Moulin Rouge up in this Remake.

And... I cannot. Fucking believe. The dress Cloud's in.

I didn't know Cloud could be put in a goddamn corset. It's like he's got a gothic princess vibe going on here. The black ribbon, fishnet sleeves. Dark blue corset with an X on it. LMAO omg.

I love how Cloud was so damn embarrassed you couldn't even control him. Aerith had to try to speak to him, LOLOL

This is was incredible.

I almost wish that was the first time you got to control her instead of Cloud, it was hilarious.

Chapter 9 is probably gonna be my non-biased favorite chapter of the game. It has so much soul.

 

[Shademp]

I spent almost 12 hours in Chapter 9 alone. My total playtime is thusly now close to 42 hours.

Before I make any lengthy commentary posts, here is a 4-second summary of my time with Chapter 9.

 

[Jimmy XH]

This chapter took it to a whole new level. Ascension, if you will.

Wall Market is a delight, and that’s not even close to an accurate description. I couldn’t help to crack into a smile every time one of those familiar scenes happened, whether it was the clothes store owner in Drunkards or the guy bursting for the toilet. I stumbled upon the restaurant and smiled. The materia shop guy though was brilliant. Lying horizontally with his candles and his mystic aura, just the way I pictured it from the original. Glorious.

These are the tiny little details that seem irrelevant but are so important. All that exploring and running the errands skilfully implemented by bringing a Johnny into the mix. I didn’t want to leave.

Loved the Coliseum. I was stuck with Hell House for ages. I’ll have to rethink that strategy next time...

And as for Corneo’s Mansion, I like the twists they’ve done to the narrative. It still feels right to me. The grand reveal had me howling with laughter. The big build up to introduce Don Corneo and he just pokes his little head out “Ladies!”.

I haven’t even mentioned the playground yet...

 

[Lestat]

Is it bad to be jealous that a cgi character has better dance moves than I do

 

[Lex]

That said, I do want to know what the monster that's lurking at the end of the game is. You guys sure won't shut up about it lol.

I know this is just a random statement because you haven't seen the ending but people could read this and misconstrue it as a spoiler, can we all be careful with this kind of chat pls? <3

 

[ForceStealer]

Only did the collapsed expressway so far, but I'm really impressed how they managed to maintain Cloud's awkwardness and that she's clearly got him off-kilter, even with Jessie and Tifa already doing some lifting on pulling him out of his shell. It's all been maintained at a natural pace which is really good.
Liked the bandits looking straight out of FF7 too! And Aerith is also cool to use in combat. Her magic is excellent. And Sorcerous Storm is bitchin'

Also, his mind-screw literally preventing him from hearing Zack's name was a really really cool touch.
Loved seeing the chocobo cart, and I wondered if my choice to Tifa earlier was going to determine what she wore. That's super exciting

 

[Eerie]

Yup, Tifa wears what you tell her to wear for that scene

 

[ForceStealer]

The Wall Market is so great. It feels exactly like a seedy Tokyo neighborhood, and I really want to go out for some Japanese food and have some drinks now

And, all the areas have been good about this, but maybe because Wall Market seems the most different on the outside, the buildings that have the same layouts as the original always makes me smile every time I open the door. Both item shops, the restaurant, the weapon shop, the bar. It's so good. The layout is JUST different enough that it's a pleasant surprise when I open one a door

 

[Shademp]

Chapter 9 makes me once again reflect on the keywords I would use to describe FFVIIR.

In the Ch3 thread I used the word "organic" to describe how the writing in FFVIIR feels naturally evolved from the OG. It's also a good way to describe how this world now feels more alive and real than ever. The Legendary Becomes Real, indeed.

When reflecting on Ch4, I summarized FFVIIR as feeling like a movie that's been expanded into a TV show. I still get that feeling. Each FFVIIR game is like a season and each season has multiple chapters/episodes. LicoriceAllsorts described it excellently when she wrote "This remake is written much more like a novel than the OG was". This also reflects back on my ponderings in Ch8 about the writing in FFVIIR reaching the sophistication heights of the best FFVII fanfics out there.

The term that now pops up in my head is "Fanservice Concert". I mean this in every positive connotation of the word 'fan-service', negative associations removed.

Chapter 9, moreso than previous chapters, had me feel like I was attending an FFVII-themed rave party, setup by fans and creators alike (and indeed some of the creators being oldtime FFVII fans). I was playing while standing up, fist-pumping the air, screaming and dancing about. Everything from the robotic hand-crane obstacles, the awesome new tunes, awesome remixes of the old tracks, Cloud- and Aerith's journey towards a natural high-five, the semi-recreated Crisis Core scene between Cloud and Aerith, Wall Market's design, Cloud's "happy ending" at the hand massage establishment, Aerith's increased presence in the middle of the action, the immense hype of the entire Corneo Colosseum culminating with the Hell House, "the Sauce", the Honey Bee Inn, Don Corneo's mansion...

This feels like more than just one chapter in a video game. Playing through this was AN EVENT twenty-three years in the making, where fans and creators partied together. A climaxing crescendo of the same feeling that, so far, permeates the entire game.

Spoiler: My feelings expressed in gif- and music form

Spoiler: Chapter Ranking: Superhero Landing

 

[Odysseus]

I know this is just a random statement because you haven't seen the ending but people could read this and misconstrue it as a spoiler, can we all be careful with this kind of chat pls? <3

Sorry! People were speaking about it so much in vague terms even outside of the spoiler chat that I didn't think it mattered.

 

[ForceStealer]

This was incredible.

Basically the music renditions in this chapter were perfect. I laughed so much in this chapter.
The tournament was so much fun, I love the little cartoon Don that shows up on the screen. And victory poses!! With the proper theme! (I also like the techno-version that plays in the VR system - which by the way, FAT CHOCOBO - but like Crisis Core's missions, it always cuts off before you can listen to it, haha). The squat game was excellent. They way they worked in all the elements from the old dress quest even though it didn't play out the same was very well done. Using your materia levels for the quests was a fun idea too.

And my god the dancing scene. That was fantastic. The whole Honeybee Inn performance was great, and I'm curious what determines Cloud's dress. is it just your performance in the dance, or do those other quests play into it? And then the music at the Don's was perfect. I loved Cloud's interjection when Tifa was going to comment on the dress. "Nailed it, yes. Thank you. Let's move on."
The lineup, Aerith and Tifa in the other room, Cloud's interactions with Corneo, the interrogation which was damn near word-for-word the same! The way he asked his question and pulled the lever. All of it, it was...

What can you say, except,

I spent almost 12 hours in Chapter 9 alone. My total playtime is thusly now close to 42 hours.

Holy shit what? lol

 

[Lex]

Sorry! People were speaking about it so much in vague terms even outside of the spoiler chat that I didn't think it mattered.

Vaguebook spoilering is still spoilering. Either report this when you see it so we can give the same feedback as we did here, or call it out yourself if you have the opportunity.

 

[Shademp]

Now that I'm (mostly) done gushing like an insane person...

- When Ch8 revealed 2000-year-old history about the summon Shiva, I dared not think that they might give similar treatment to the other summons. But they do. Fat Chocobo is now a "legendary chocobo, a symbol of fertility and good fortune. Fat chocobos appear in many a beloved fairy tale." Meaning we may be getting lore about each and every summon. Really looking forward to whatever the final Remake game will say about Knights of Round or what background Bahamut ZERO will be given. Still holding out hope that Bahamut Tremor will appear in one of the games.

Spoiler: Only read the following if you don't want to discover juicy Ch9 NPC dialogue for yourself first

- Materia pops ice cream with "dozens of flavors to try, including a mystery one". Icicle Vodka. Chocobo bean popcorn, one flavored with "Golden Garlic" and one with "Killer Caramel". Da-chao spices (from Wutai, of course). Malboro juice. Monster burger. Ultima Monster Burger and Omega Fries. Extra Damage sauce. Deep-fried gysahl greens. "Beef and tofu thing" with boiled pahsana. "Egg-filled bombs". A warm cup of "icicle drop". Wall Market provides so many FFVII-centric foods. Coupled with the "Clear Icicle" mineral water, we now have three icicle-themed drinks.

"How is it these chocobo-shaped kernels pop into chocobo-shaped popcorn...?"​

"Yeah, I was wondering the same thing."​

"Nobody knows the answer. One of the great unsolved mysteries of our world."​

"Get your delicious materia pops right here - yes, right here! Dozens of flavors to try, including a mystery one!"​

"Oh. My. God! Do you see this? The summon pops have little monster-shaped candies in them!"​

"The chocolate chocobo and moogle is everything I wanted! How many other flavors do they have?"​

People collect the candies from the summon pops. In a dark alley there is even a fully grown man who hazzles a lady about wanting her Alexander-shaped candy and he acts super-aggressive about it, not even caring if she screams. She refuses a trade because the Alexander-shaped candy is so rare.

"That candy that comes with the summoning materia ice cream. You have Alexander, don't you?"​

"How 'bout a trade? I'll give you three Bahamuts for it."​

Further proof btw that the summons in FFVII are now part of commonly known history and/or mythology. It feels like a low-key reference that the aggressive man is trying to get the hard-won Alexander from a lady, similar to how players in OG acquire Alexander from a lady after an aggressive (outright lethal) encounter.

- "Oh, kweh off"! The NPC script just keeps on delivering so much greatness. It's so adorable whenever they say "kweh".

- "You wanna climb mountains and run across the ocean, don't you?" DAT SUBTLETY

- Though not a one-to-one similarity, the developers must have been thinking about the Temple of the Ancients when they made this Stamp movie poster. Also, camels are now a thing in FFVII. Or maybe camels are in FFVII like what chocobos are to us: Fantasy creatures that don't actually exist.

- Apparently there is now a Shinra ship called the "Relnikha". Past canon only gave us the Gelnika, so are we going to get a series of these airships now? The Telnikha, the Delnikha, the Melnikha, the Selnikha... Such potential for names.

- So, uh... I can't have been the only one who noticed that this mother and son are holding each other a bit too couple-like. >___>
I guess it's Wall Market so anything goes.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm so glad you truly appreciate the intricacies and detail they put in the world-building in this game Shademp

It really is incredible. You even pointed out some conversations I missed. Part of the reason my playthrough is so long/slow is cause I literally stand around and try to hear everything the NPCs say

 

[Interslicery]

OMFG HONEYBEE INN WAS THE FUCKING SHIT THAT WAS AMAZING

 

[ForceStealer]

"Oh, kweh off"! The NPC script just keeps on delivering so much greatness. It's so adorable whenever they say "kweh".

Except in VII, chocobos said 'wark'. RETCON

 

[Shademp]

Same boat as you, Mako. My playthrough is quite the slow burn since I not only painstakingly unlock every NPC line I can find but I also tend to backtrack needlessly just to test the exploration limits and get some EXP. I also focus on triggering every possible line from characters when you go the wrong way or select a No-type response instead of a Yes-type response. For the most part though I don't reset my game to check out different responses from one-time choices. Leaving that for replay value.

Fun fact, this style of checking ALL THE NPC TEXT is how I play all J-RPGs. Needless to say, first playthroughs are usually a torture because of this.

Spoiler: Venting about the NPC voice clip management system again

FFVIIR is a different type of torture though because of how messed up the sound management system is for interacting with NPCs. It requires immense patience at times to find the proper camera angle to make the game realize which NPC you want to listen in on. Sometimes that proper camera angle (even when you are standing right next to the person and you think you have it all right) is counter-intuitive.

For lack of an "interact" button with most NPCs, you typically try to trigger interaction by running away from- and to an NPC just so the game will re-trigger dialogue. Faster than standing around at the same spot and waiting for the character to enter the next cycle of voice clips. The problem with this "retreat-and-reapproach" strategy with NPCs in crowded areas though is that the sound system too often locks on to the wrong person. I know I already talked about this in the Ch4 thread but I just had to vent once again because twenty percent of my time in FFVIIR is spent wrestling with this.

That and moments where you are following characters like Aerith, Tifa, Johnny etc (when the aforementioned characters also have dialogue) need to be programmed so that most or all of the NPCs shut up at that time. It even seems at times like NPC voice clips are triggered at an even higher degree in these follow-the-lead moments.

Square needs to seriously learn from FFVIIR and make future installments better in these regards. I would have saved hours from my time in Ch9 if this part of the game was better designed.

- Wall Market...is walled in. WALL MARKET. IS WALLED. IN.

It's such a simple but perfect addition. Aerith going over the history of Wall Market was a great way to start the chapter.

- On four occasions I was convinced that I had explored every nook and cranny of Wall Market, only to be proven wrong and find yet another alley/corner that I had missed. Feels appropriate that an area like Wall Market would take a long time to become well-oriented in.

- The one dude in the Corneo Colosseum talking about how cool it would be if SOLDIER appeared in the arena (and the other dude insisting that SOLDIER won't ever appear) makes me think the game is foreshadowing that you are going to fight Roche in the Colosseum. I'd almost be willing to bet money on this.

- Drunkards' Bar why do you have dart boards but not let me play darts again. You're giving me blue balls here, game.

- While the sleeping gas in Don Corneo's mansion felt a bit pointless I have to assume that enough girls have tried to escape from Don Corneo's auditions by this time that they now prevent escapes by having gas at the ready.

- There is no way the game can convince me that Tifa didn't instantly recognize Cloud when they met in the torture chamber. Nobody else has hair like Cloud. The game wants me to think that Tifa didn't realize at first but I can't for the life of me buy into that.

- Having Don Corneo first be represented as a cartoon figure AND later as a vending machine? What a build-up.

- The events in Don Corneo's mansion are now supremely uncomfortable, as they should be, much helped by the game's high graphical- and auditory fidelity. The mind wanders to the real-life horrors of human trafficking and indeed slave trade throughout all of history. I spent much of these events wanting to kick the shit out of Don Corneo and his lackeys. So happy we got to have those moments of kicking ass together with Aerith and Tifa. Cloud kicking the Don was also a moment of catharsis.

- When Don Corneo asked his question and the three alternatives were presented, I took too long to respond and didn't get to choose any of them. I appreciate that this "fourth" option was added of not selecting any option at all.

 

[ForceStealer]

There is no way the game can convince me that Tifa didn't instantly recognize Cloud when they met in the torture chamber. Nobody else has hair like Cloud. The game wants me to think that Tifa didn't realize at first but I can't for the life of me buy into that.

Did you buy into it before?

 

[Odysseus]

Now that I'm seeing it again, I think Don Corneo's mansion might be the single most faithful recreation of the original games maps in the entire remake. It's practically 1 to 1 in a lot of spots.

 

[Jimmy XH]

I'm looking forward to going back. They really got his music right as well. It retained that comic-book cartoon villain feel but also added a bit of menace.

And I'm sorry to say it again but when he pops his head out and says "ladies!". I was well and truly GONE at that moment.

 

[Shademp]

- Didn't consider it before somebody else here mentioned it, but I can see a parallel between Mukki and Madame M. In OG, if you choose the north-west room in the Honey Bee Inn, there will be text and sound effects that can be interpreted as Cloud receiving a..."sexual treatment" and having his HP/MP restored as a result. Definitely not the only interpretation but it's been how my dirty mind sees the scene for many years now. The hand massage Cloud can receive in FFVIIR seems like an evolution of that scene towards something less predatory.

Cloud without gloves looks so naked he might as well have been completely naked.


- Seen plenty enough battle colosseums in video games but none of them has made me this pumped for a fight. My absolute highest point in Ch9 was defeating Hell House. The battle went really well and I felt so badass. When Cloud pierced the head of the Hell House I was transported back to the moment when Crono jumps on top of the Dragon Tank in Chrono Trigger. In that moment I could feel the impressive passage of time since the 90s and how far we've gone. To have Aerith badass saving the crowd was a great action moment. And the crowning moment of it all...when Cloud and Aerith high-fived after this victory. I was so convinced that the high-five arc ended at the playground, even though that player-controlled high five looked awkward. So to have that arc end in the colosseum was...perfection.

- I wish I could say the Honeybee Inn was my highest point, but alas it was not. Second- or third best moment, yes, but I performed so badly in the final dance number that I was too pissed off to enjoy it 100%. The music and dancing was awesome but seeing and hearing Aerith's disappointed reactions just left me in a really bad mood. Sad to say it but the fact that Cloud's dress-up scene is right next to a stressful, motion-sickness inducing rhythm game makes me unable to enjoy the dress-up scene to its full extent. God I'm fuming with rage just thinking about it, despite all the awesomeness that was very much there. I felt like I was such a disappointment.

- Dressed-up Cloud opening a chest by kicking it with his feet. Wonderful.

Did you buy into it before?

Yes.

OG: It only takes Tifa 2-3 seconds to recognize Cloud as soon as he walks up to her. Cloud doesn't even have to speak.

Remake: From the moment Cloud wakes up, Tifa straight in front of him, it takes her 16 seconds until she says "waait a minute" and an additional five seconds until she fully realizes. In the meantime (during those first 16 seconds) Cloud spoke three times yet she didn't process that it was Cloud's voice.

Facing the unexpected CAN delay one's logical- and discerning faculties. But the Remake pushed it too far for me to believe. Not a dealbreaker, this is just how I experience the scene.

 

[ForceStealer]

I was bracing for that dancing game to be harder, actually. But I'm glad it was straightforward because there was a lot to watch. You can pretty much ignore the moving line and just wait for the circle to close around the button.

And fair enough, I guess they could have had Cloud on his side facing away from her at first

 

[Tetsujin]

Hell House was only the prelude for the Tankasaurus thing in the next game

It's gonna be glorious

 

[Rydeen]

Blew my mind into smithereens. Too much to get into. I love how the game continues to deliver in the humor department just like its predecessor. If the game was made 10 years ago I feel that wouldn't have been the case.

I've started to just type comments as I play, because it's just too much:

That Oppressed People remix is sick. Ska and breakbeat is not exactly a combination I would have thought of.

"I'll be fine. You’ve seen how much ass I can kick."
"....I. Have."

Guy aggressively selling buns lol

Orphan teacher moonlighting as a Honey Girl??

Victory theme and sword twirl!!!

Oh no it’s the hooligans again

Creative way to include the Hell House in a slightly more realistic way.

Stop saying "The Sauce"!

Andrea Rhodea.

Corneo's jiggle physics make me uncomfortable.

Aerith's chair attack is adorable. Aerith. Is adorable!

I'll smash 'em!

Occasional PS2 textures are like this game’s version of translation errors. You think they annoy you, but you'll eventually realize it’s charming.