SPOILERS FFVII:R Chapter 9 Spoiler Discussion

[Shademp]

- My hands got to so gosh darn sweaty during the squatting minigame. Wasn't expecting to ACTUALLY work up a sweat here.

- What adds to my shame with the Andrea Rhodea dance number is that I had perfected the tutorial and learned that, indeed, you shouldn't pay attention to the line but rather the enclosing hexagon. But ultimately I just don't have the reflexes for the minigame and there is too much shit going on for me to instantly spot where the button prompts appear. The only way I'm going to learn this minigame is with repeated tries and memorization.

- Honey Bee lady that's the least triangle-looking triangle I have ever seen air-drawn by somebody's stinger.

- Acupuncture is now a thing in FFVII.

- Back when the original game was made, Motomu Toriyama was in charge of the Honey Bee Inn scenario. This means that he was in charge of all the content that went unused and roughly 2/3 of his work got scrapped. With Motomu Toriyama returning to a lead developing role for FFVIIR, it isn't *that* surprising to see Palmer's presence revived in HBI, albeit in a much less over-the-top fashion. I'd say it's likely that even if the OG Palmer scene hadn't been unlocked by fans, we would have gotten to see Palmer in this remake.

I still like to think though that, at some point in the last eight years, Motomu Toriyama saw- or heard about this unlocked content and that he got a chuckle out of it. Maybe the positive reception from fans in regards to this old secret made Toriyama insist further on this discrete Palmer revival.

I haven't been reading all of the FFVIIR developer interviews so I could easily have missed some essential comments they might have made on how the Honeybee Inn was designed in the remake.

Hell House was only the prelude for the Tankasaurus thing in the next game

It's gonna be glorious

I had completely forgotten that the enemy is blandly called Heavy Tank in OG, both in Japanese and in English. But ObstinateMelon's "Tankosaurus" is a way better name and Team Four Star's "Tankceratops" absolutely nails it.

If FFVIIR is able to hype up Tankceratops to even half the degree that Team Four Star has, I will be so gosh darn pleased. And if they make "Vehicularsaurs" a thing (just that series of similarly themed enemies)......I will faint in hyped awe.

 

[Lex]

But I do rather regret not needing to run around all over town to put Cloud's outfit together for maximum seductiveness.

There are two side quest paths in chapter 9, one of them is the "Madam M path" which I got, where you do a couple of quests in the run up to the dress. These quests are called "The Price of Thievery" and "Shears Counterattack".

The other is the "Chocobo Sam" path which has quests called "The Party Never Stops" and "A Dynamite Body". The Party Never Stops is a long-ish quest involving Johnny where you do everything you did in the original - go to the bar to get the clothing store owner, the pharmacy to get the digestive, the materia shop guy etc etc.

Which quest chain you get depends on the answers you give to Chocobo Sam and some other choices at the beginning of the chapter:



Also I really think this should have been the Wall Market theme:

 

[Eerie]

Funny, I'm watching the French streamer I usually watch, and he just got into Wall market - and when talking to Sam, the options to describe Tifa weree:
1. She's very pretty
2. She's a good fighter
3. She's managing a bar

The third option is like, completely different? (He chose option 1, and Aerith went "oh, so she's pretty, uh?" lol).

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Ah, I picked the most expensive massage.
Cloud having hand sex was possibly wierder than Mukki.

 

[ForceStealer]

I will say, @Lex, I didn't make all thsoe same choices and still got The Party Never Stops. For instance I got the most expensive massage and picked Tails with Sam.

 

[Fangu]

Yeah I read some guides online and I think the jury is still out. It might be as simple as not picking 'heads' or 'tails' to get Madame M's quests instead of Chocobo Sam's. As in, if you choose to play the game with Sam, he'll give you the quests, and if not, he won't.

This chapter was a hoot. Also boyfriend claims 'the map looks the same, just upside down', idk if he's right?

I didn't have any level 3 materia, but I did get the Sauce. Chose the Fridge, don't think I got the good stuff.

I did all 3 squat mini games. Had to turn the music down from 10 to 2 in order to do the last one, because it was hard to hear the audio queues. The prize is great, slapped it on Cloud immediately.

I live for this version of Oppressed People. There's been many great tracks so far but this is the most noticeable and best imo.

I could barely afford the sword sold for Cloud here, had to sell potions and Smelling Salts. Where do people get the gil for the best massage?! I had to do the poor man's course, that was... a bit painful to watch The 3,000 gil one is way more hilarious, I wish I had the money.

I chose Tifa's 'mature' dress, and I got Aerith's red 80's dress. lol, as I told my boyfriend, 'this is what 6 years olds dream of when they think of the prettiest dress in the world' I got Cloud's blue and black dress (with the corset), imo it's the prettiest one and I was really happy. Cloud in that dress is a dream. Truly. That entire part with Andrea and Cloud in a dress was better than I could ever wish for, I think they handled it really well.

I remember watching Lex's stream, cheering at 'I'll Smash'em'

I think Johnny was well done. His shaving choices are odd tho.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

I agree with everyone, this chapter was amazing! I don't want to just repeat what others have said more eloquently, but...

• Aerith's quest for a high five is one of my favourite subplots so far. She earned that.
• Aerith acting like a WWE superstar with the folding chair, damn. Switching control to her and Tifa while Cloud's in with the Don is a great way to setup their friendship.
• Switching control to Aerith is also a great way to setup Cloud's shame when he comes out in the dress. I kinda get why characters like giving Cloud a hard time, it's really fun.
• Aerith is a beast in combat, damn. I think I got hit twice when getting her second limit break? They actually made a mage-type character fun to play the madlads.
• Speaking of madlads, Nomura finally got a musical number in a main FF. He definitely earned that (and I like "Stand Up" too, pretty catchy.)
• I kinda love Madam M? Her past with Chocobo Sam is interesting too. Andrea is fabulous as well. They did a good job setting up the Trio and giving them presence. Adds to Corneo too because you know the whole time that he controls these three.
• Corneo took pictures like in the Turks novel! And Leslie was there! Pretty sure if he would challenge Cloud to a brood-off instead of a squat-off.

Just a great chapter all around.

 

[Celes777]

Aerith mimicking Tifa's punch and kick is so adorable.

 

[Girl Named Captain]

Echoing the above, I made almost none of those choices and still got The Party Never Stops. Said Tifa looked like a great fighter, got the expensive massage, bet heads with Sam, said no thanks to the hotel guy, said Aerith's outfit looked comfortable. Curious, indeed...

Edit: perhaps it's based on how you treat Johnny, since he's the one you run around town with? I forget what the original dialogue prompt with him even was, or how I answered it.

 

[Odysseus]

Can you find Johnny anywhere while Cloud's in the dress? One of my favorite minor gags in the original was Johnny awkwardly asking Cloud out while he was in disguise.

 

[Nanaki Skywalker]

Is it just me, or does Chocobo Sam sound a lot like Sam Elliott? It's for this reason that I'm beginning to think he was named after that particular actor.

 

[Theozilla]

Oh same, glad I wasn't the only one. Definitely felt like they were going for that impression.

 

[Keveh Kins]

The Butch guy that attacks you in the tunnels looks like the old thief enemies from Corel Prison that would rob your shit. I love it

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Is it just me, or does Chocobo Sam sound a lot like Sam Elliott? It's for this reason that I'm beginning to think he was named after that particular actor.

That's a great observation! It went over my head at first, but Jay and Ronnie over at the gym are likely named for Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman, both Mr. Olympia winners.

 

[Nanaki Skywalker]

That's a great observation! It went over my head at first, but Jay and Ronnie over at the gym are likely named for Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman, both Mr. Olympia winners.

The only Jay Cutler I was aware of until now was the former quarterback for the Chicago Bears.

 

[Girl Named Captain]

The Chocobo Sam version of the Wall Market theme is so amazing, I love it.

I just started Ch. 15, so this is only a provisional statement since I know the plot is about to kick into high gear, but Ch. 9 is still the high point of the game for me so far. Still thinking about how good it was.

 

[Keveh Kins]

....dafuq is this background music in Wall Market?

Sounds like the tacky tune that plays in the casino in XIII-2.

 

[Fangu]

Oh, yep yep. There's a lot of music in this game that reminds me of XIII-2

 

[Philco]

MY EYES

Dying of secondhand embarrassment trying to get through that dance routine.

 

[Nanaki Skywalker]

Has Aerith been watching WWE or something?

 

[Theozilla]

Has Aerith been watching WWE or something?View attachment 5494

My thoughts during this scene

 

[Kratos]

I'm glad so many people are so head-over-heels for this chapter, but it was another mixed bag for me.

There were, again, plenty of things I liked, so I'll start with those:

The highway was neat. Not as good as the sun lamp dungeon, mind. But it was fun, the high five thing was an adorable gag, and I enjoyed exploring it. Somewhat-related, Cloud and Aerith trying to say goodbye was very appropriately awkward. The performances just shine so much in this game.

Visually, Wall Market is pretty much perfect. I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the loss of the original music - it feels so much less seedy without that dark reggae beat - but the twisty-turny nature of it felt very true to Wall Market. I liked that there were parts that were just inaccessible to me, like those back-alley chests. I liked the kitschy appropriation of the Eastern aesthetic that screams "plundered wealth". Once again, the game has nailed the feel of a Sector's slums without making it anything like the ones we saw before.

I liked the Trio, and I liked the Colosseum mini-arc. They felt like an organic addition to the world, much like Roche (though obviously in a different way). On that note, I also liked Johnny (and his dad, diligently delivering a pillow) and Leslie. I didn't die against Hell House, but it was definitely a long fight, and there were a couple times it came close. I really feel like I'm under-leveled, because any guides I peeked at recommended third-tier Materia, which I didn't get until I hit the midpoint of the Sewers. Oops!

I liked everything from the moment Cloud got into his dress onwards. I ended up with the tacky blue corset, which I think looks better than the lacy black dress. Aerith got the red gown, and Tifa got her sporty look, which...whew, momma. Once again, Aerith is adorable with her Tifa Moves and WWE chair smacks.
______________________________

What did I not like? Well, I found most of the dress-up sequence underwhelming, I guess. Messy, I think is a better word. The progression of events in the original were very elegant:

1. Cloud can't get into Corneo's as a dude.
2. Not going in isn't an option for him.
3. Aerith has the idea to dress him up as a lady, which leads to a madcap adventure through a den of vice that serves to build up that little corner of the world.

In the Remake, the sequence of events is more like:

1. They want to rescue Tifa, so decide to audition Aerith.
2. They need to gain approval for her, so they get involved in a battle tournament.
3. After the tournament, Cloud does some unrelated busywork to "learn about Wall Market."
4. Around that time, Cloud just up and decides it's time to present himself to Corneo's lackeys because Johnny is in a panic (???). He learns he won't be able to join in because dude, and decides to storm the castle without her (???) but doesn't because Aerith shows up.
5. Aerith, acting on a plan developed off-screen and a-propos of nothing by Madame M, takes Cloud to see Andrea, who surprises him with a dress-up.

The original is just so much more...organic, and it's a shame to lose its fun little adventure. And yes, I know you can get a set of quests that have you do the same actions as that adventure - that was the set which I unlocked - but they're presented in a way that's completely divorced from their original purpose (what's even the point of the dress shop if you don't use it to make the damn dress that you wear? what even does determine Cloud's dress?). Making them into time-killers is even weirder than just cutting them completely, because with a slight tweak, you could still have Aerith come up with the cross-dressing idea on her own, maybe after the tournament, and then do those quests to gain the materials for, I dunno, an audition with Andrea.

I just liked it when Cloud learned about Wall Market and put together a pretty outfit at the same time, I guess.

 

[oty]

He doesnt storm the castle because Leslie warns him that Tifa might get hurt because of it, if I'm not mistaken. And yeah I got that the Johnny interference was very....convienent for the plot too. But I mean, this was always going to be one of the most changed segments of the original so I'm surprised/happy that atleast the notion behind it is the same.

 

[Kratos]

He doesnt storm the castle because Leslie warns him that Tifa might get hurt because of it, if I'm not mistaken. And yeah I got that the Johnny interference was very....convienent for the plot too. But I mean, this was always going to be one of the most changed segments of the original so I'm surprised/happy that atleast the notion behind it is the same.

That's right, I remember now. I just wish at that point, Cloud had gone back and been "hey we have a problem," leading to them seeking Andrea's approval (because Madame M and Sam have already recommended a candidate) and then to the adventure of the original in service of that. The events are in there, and the results are in there, so why make them separate like this?

 

[Odysseus]

Yeah I'll admit that the progression of events was definitely made clunkier with all the additions they made. Overall I'd say there was more net-positives than losses though, and Chapter 9 is by far my favorite of the game.