SPOILERS FFVII Remake Frustration Expression Thread (*Open Spoilers*)

[Odysseus]

Tseng is an ageless vampire, that's why he looks exactly the same when Aerith was a Child as he does now. Didn't you know?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I hate the Remake Tseng so much I made my own (face is Chinese actor Yan Yikuan). The colouring is bad because I got bored.

 

[Rydeen]

I hate the Remake Tseng so much I made my own (face is Chinese actor Yan Yikuan). The colouring is bad because I got bored.
View attachment 4813

That is smexy. I prefer this Tseng, bad coloring or not.

 

[Littlewing]

They're actually atemping to make it seem like there's a middle class between the slums and upper classes who live at the top of the crust in Midgar but then I guess they're the most successful perhaps.

 

[Littlewing]

Sometimes I think just remaking the games with better graphics but leaving it with a similar design and look would retain more of the feeling and dspirit of the original instead of updating the graphics so much because under the slick and shine you almost lose some kind of a quality that is hard to really define or explain precisely. The hi-rest super detailed and realistic graphics almost seem too much at times, and I feel like it's all too slick looking but I'm not sure it's hard to say.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's a creatively vapid, and monotonous use of effort.

If all Nomura, Kitase, Nojima and Toriyama were going to do is make the exact same thing except modernize the graphics, that would be the epitome of a cash-in and they could easily just use their creative energy to make FF XVI and move on with life. Why would someone want to play a game that's literally the same with just a different appearance? Why would anyone want to make the same exact product twice?

That is quite frankly, an utter waste of time. From the creative end, and the consumer end.

 

[Littlewing]

That's a creatively vapid, and monotonous use of effort.

If all Nomura, Kitase, Nojima and Toriyama were going to do is make the exact same thing except modernize the graphics, that would be the epitome of a cash-in and they could easily just use their creative energy to make FF XVI and move on with life. Why would someone want to play a game that's literally the same with just a different appearance? Why would anyone want to make the same exact product twice?

That is quite frankly, an utter waste of time. From the creative end, and the consumer end.

But it wasn't a vapid or monotonous waste of effort the first time, why would it be now or even before when it was just speculation or wishful thinking and fan teasing. If the original interpretation is fine the way it is, why drastically alter it?

Anyway, I was just saying that because I realized that the older graphics had some kind of a charm to them that the new hardware capabilities and super hi-res graphics don't always seem to capture or have the same quality and character...it's a difference in art style mostly. O.o

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because why would someone want to spend their time, energy and money doing the same thing again? That's like painting the same picture twice, when you could be doing a new work that is more motivating and creative.

They didn't even want to do the Remake, unless they could do it differently and better than what they did before. They've said so. The only thing a Remake like that would show is they can self-plagiarize and do a rote remake, make a check, and move on.

The "charm" you're referring to is nostalgia and the fact that it was so simplistic, any person could project their imagination into the game, and perceive whatever they wanted. That's fine for everyone else, but that's hardly satisfying for someone actually putting in the work to creatively cobble together something new since they're having to retread the same ground twice. Not to mention someone wanting a new experience beyond the same one from 1997.

 

[JBedford]

There have been plenty of remakes that are recreations of the original game with some modern sensibilities. The people who want remakes usually do so because they enjoyed the original but want to see them with the capabilities of modern hardware. That's why fans of the original MediEvil seem to like the MediEvil remake even though critics didn't especially.

I don't know why they'd use this creative energy on creating a game they've already made. I'd much rather this creativity go into FFXVI or an FFVII homage rather than a "remake".

 

[Odysseus]

Square, for better or worse, always goes big or goes home. The reason the FF7 remake ever got made is because of sheer fan demand, so if they were going to do it, they're gonna do it their way. Nojima and Nomura would never settle for making the same game but with better graphics. They can do better, and FF7 deserves better. If you really need the original but with better graphics, there are plenty of mods that satisfy those needs.

 

[Jimmy XH]

They’ve already said that there was loads of stuff they wanted to do in the original but were hamstrung by the technological constraints of the time, haven’t they?

1997 is a long time ago, but those thoughts and ideas would still have been knocking around when this whole project kicked off, and clearly what we’ll see in a few weeks’ (!!!) time is a manifestation of that. Clearly they’re pushing the boat out on an awful lot of new stuff, some of which would have come through the compilation, but a good deal of it may be the story they wanted to tell in ‘97, but couldn’t.

As it goes, when this was announced I was very much in the camp of wanting it to be a direct like-for-like copy of the original. A word-for-word, scene-by-scene carbon copy. As has been pointed out above though, what would the point of that be? What a wasted opportunity.

It may wrangle with some about the story changes that are coming our way, and I’m sure we’re all a little bit nervous about how it’s going to play out, but in a way it adds to the excitement. We know the story, but we don’t know how it’s going to be told this time. We might think we know what’s round the corner but it could turn out to be something surprising and delightful.

To me, that’s exciting...

 

[Odysseus]

"The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear, but let us embrace whatever it brings, for they are coming back."

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I'm with Jimmy; I'm looking forward to a very different game.

 

[Saven]

The reason why the original REmake immediately clicked with me was when I, as someone who played the OG RE1 religiously and knew the whole game like the palm of my hand, got stumped right away trying to do the same routine. That was when I realized that 70% or so of the game had completely changed and it was essentially a New Game+. This led to a completely brand new experience that I never thought I would have with RE1 again and I loved it. I always cite REmake as the foundation for what any video game remake should be. Keep the same spirit, but make it a brand new experience. That's what I wanted out of a Final Fantasy VII Remake and I'm so glad that's what we are getting. If it was just the original game with better graphics, I wouldn't care at all about it and would wait for a PSN sale before buying it.

 

[Ite]

For me, I haven’t seen enough below the Plate to say whether it hits my “gritty” or “grimdark” expectations... I can say though... With the exception of XII’s simply textured (Ivalice) polygons, I haven’t enjoyed any of the post-merger Square-Enix graphics.

For me. FFIX was the last and best concept-to-audience design (those fuckin’ mist-powered-ovens in Lindblum maaan) because it was fixed camera angles and therefore specific ‘unskippable‘ images for the audience... but as soon as they went 3D it was butter over too much toast, ya know?

How do you take an image, like the Sector7 Slums town, and turn it into a 3D hub? How do you make it big, real, maze-like enough to become a beloved hub? (In order to deliciously gutpunch you later by taking it away?) Crisis Core was a total failure in this regard, its slums were devoid of character or purpose behind nostalgia or some such? (Honestly I hate CC so someone plz pick up this torch) but from what I have seen with this remake it is interested in showing us colour again which already encouraging my faith that it will be a rich and varied, not sterile, world.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I mean, we've seen part of the slums of the Remake already.

To be fair, Crisis Core failed 'cause it was a PSP handheld game from 13 years ago working with only a 480 x 272 resolution. You can only graphically 3-D render so much of the details from the pre-rendered backgrounds from the OG with PS2 level quality. Something that small was never gonna be able to convey the amount of artistic expression and detail a static artwork background could do with a fixed camera angle.

This on the other hand, is able to meet the challenge.

 

[Odysseus]

I know Crisis Core was a budget title for square at the end of the day, but I always wonder what it could have been if it was a PS3 game.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I know Crisis Core was a budget title for square at the end of the day, but I always wonder what it could have been if it was a PS3 game.

I guess we'll never know since that was during the age of "WE DON'T MAKE CONSOLE GAMES! WE'RE SCARED CAUSE WE CAN'T JURRY-RIG A GAME IN OUR CRAPPY CRYSTAL TOOLS ENGINE" at Square.

I'd imagine it'd look something close to the PS3 tech demo but we all know how Yoichi Wada felt about that.

 

[oty]

Oof, Idk. I think there is a reason the PS3-Xbox360 era of gaming is called the "dark age". And yes, that is a pun with the lighting.

Jokes aside, I think the RE2 situation fits very nice when talking about VIIR, and has even been overused when trying to analyse this Remake, partially because it really is a very good example. It changes the foundations in which the original was built, and that has consequences. RE2 is an amazing game, but it is strikingly different from the original. And that's the situation we have here: a (probably) very good game, but that doesnt "pull any punches" lets say, when changing the very pillars in which VII was praised.

And that has a lot to do with their vision from this game. If I would compare the "coolness" of the locations of the original and what we have seen, excluding graphical upgrade of course, I still think the OG is much more artistic and creative. The already infamous Shinra elevator comes to mind, and how it was turned into a much more "basic" construction, even if it "makes more sense". But thats because (I believe) they went into a different perspective.

Fighting against Shinra with a gigantic Shinra HQ in the background.....battling jn the ruins of Sector 7, and observing the sky and the gigantic plates that form Midgar....it's something that makes any fan happy, and its something the original didnt (or couldnt) achieve. Seeing them realise and achieve that, I mean....it definitely means a lot of effort was put into it. Definitely

 

[Littlewing]

I guess (AFTTER ALREADY WRITING AN INANE AND SELF INDULGENT OVERLY ELABORATE EMOTIONAL RANT) I would say one thing that stands out is that I feel like they made Barret into kinda a stereotypical representation of a dark skinned male again. I liked the design at first, and then the second one where they made him a bit less gruff, and more softer looking but then they changed him again I think. He's really sweaty and stuff but he looks darker and different somehow, it's somewhat comical I guess I don't know what they're going for. Like, his hair more frizzy and stuff and he holds himself in a weird way and not only that, I think they made him bulkier. But then, maybe it's a petty gripe. The first Barret design was really cool, the second one I think fit better...kind of? but I'm not an expert I am not sure. Like he had scars all over his face and sunglasses covering them, he was so gruff and harsh looking, he's just like one stereotype after the other but I guess it's realistic maybe I don't know. They made Cloud's pants even baggier i think, I wonder, is he going to be seemingly cursed like in Smash bros? (makes me want to play him in smash bros again)

Oh, I see the edit button now, it's my computers fault.


This was seriously Barret at first

Final Fantasy: Halo Xbax 360 celius 0-

"I have a gun"

"Hey, this is a well known and popular RPG,, what is so much shooting doing inside of it?" "I have a gun..." "XXXBAX" and thus, Final Fantasy became Americanized, loud, extravagant and grandiose.

Yay Cloud. Smash Bros, watch as he creepily floats close to you with his giant sword, top tier, hmmmm...

heere, 2nd design my gfavorite

3rd
1st (he looks really cool here) but the toy design differs from the actual first footage

I think they just keep changing the color, tone and proportions of the character since it's still in development I guess. I wonder if Barret is part Middle Eastern?

 

[LNK]

That's a creatively vapid, and monotonous use of effort.

If all Nomura, Kitase, Nojima and Toriyama were going to do is make the exact same thing except modernize the graphics, that would be the epitome of a cash-in and they could easily just use their creative energy to make FF XVI and move on with life. Why would someone want to play a game that's literally the same with just a different appearance? Why would anyone want to make the same exact product twice?

That is quite frankly, an utter waste of time. From the creative end, and the consumer end.

From comments I've seen online, most of the people hoped the game would've stayed the same but with modern graphics

Sometimes I think just remaking the games with better graphics but leaving it with a similar design and look would retain more of the feeling and dspirit of the original instead of updating the graphics so much because under the slick and shine you almost lose some kind of a quality that is hard to really define or explain precisely. The hi-rest super detailed and realistic graphics almost seem too much at times, and I feel like it's all too slick looking but I'm not sure it's hard to say.

If they did that, you'd have no reason to play the original anymore though. IMO. I'm glad they're changing/adding new things. Is it a money grab on SE part to split the game up? More than likely. As long as the games feel complete, I don't really care though

Square, for better or worse, always goes big or goes home. The reason the FF7 remake ever got made is because of sheer fan demand, so if they were going to do it, they're gonna do it their way. Nojima and Nomura would never settle for making the same game but with better graphics. They can do better, and FF7 deserves better. If you really need the original but with better graphics, there are plenty of mods that satisfy those needs.

I remember reading an interview saying they would do a remake once there was a stronger or badass villain than Sephiroth (Caius). I might be wrong though

 

[Wol]

Splitting the game is the only viable option to recreate the entirety of FFVII if the aim is to recreate it up with the highest graphical quality, that is.

We're talking about 8 playable characters that plays differently, tons of varied towns, a big city (with complex architecture), tons of dialogue that needs to be voiced, tons of cutscenes and diverse ideas segments (from going underwater to the f**cking space) enemies that go from rats to behemoths taller than a building. Multiple modes of transportation (I can remember 5 off my head).

The density is insane for a single title, take for example TW3 which has 2 playable characters max, 2-3 transportation modes, towns and cities with similar design, and Guard Scorpion alone is bigger than the biggest monster in that game.

I dont think people have idea of much it would take to cram everything FFVII has to offer + new additions into one title, and frankly no one can give me an example of a game that did that much (last GTA?)

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Barett in particular is supposed to come off as the stereotypical "angry black man"... at first. It's only after you see him with Marlene and learn about his past with Dyne that he becomes less stereotypical.

And that same line of logic goes for the rest of the main characters. All of them more or less fit into easily recognized stereotypes when they are first introduced. It's only as the story develops that we find out they aren't stereotypes at all, but are fully fleshed out characters in their own right.

However, we are currently at the beginning of the story. People who aren't familear with the story of FFVII need to be sold on the stereotypes the characters are right now so they can later be surprised by who the characters really are beneath the stereotype.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Do you think Japanese video game writers in 1997 knew about the stereotype of the 'angry black man'? I never heard of it until I started frequenting internet boards where lots of Americans posted.

 

[LNK]

Splitting the game is the only viable option to recreate the entirety of FFVII if the aim is to recreate it up with the highest graphical quality, that is.

We're talking about 8 playable characters that plays differently, tons of varied towns, a big city (with complex architecture), tons of dialogue that needs to be voiced, tons of cutscenes and diverse ideas segments (from going underwater to the f**cking space) enemies that go from rats to behemoths taller than a building. Multiple modes of transportation (I can remember 5 off my head).

The density is insane for a single title, take for example TW3 which has 2 playable characters max, 2-3 transportation modes, towns and cities with similar design, and Guard Scorpion alone is bigger than the biggest monster in that game.

I dont think people have idea of much it would take to cram everything FFVII has to offer + new additions into one title, and frankly no one can give me an example of a game that did that much.

If they did a carbon copy of the OG with no additions, just modern graphics, I'm sure they could've done this with one game. I'm glad they didn't go that route though