FFVIIR at TGS 2019 (NEW TRAILER!)
- Thread starter Shademp
- Start date
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Yeah, Barret in other scenes/renders looks normal in terms of skin (compared to his prior 3D renders in AC and DC). And his Play Arts figurine looks normal too.
Rude had a similar situation, with his trailer appearance looking a little washed out compared to his Remake Play Arts figurine. It’s also important to remember the “not final footage” disclaimer with the trailers/demos and lightning is often one of the later stage things to finish in animation.
Then there’s also unfortunate history of how the medium of photography/visual arts/technology was developed with light skin as the standard, so even today there has to be extra/additional conscious effort to properly depict dark skinned people, including video games.
Sources: https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...-the-racial-biases-that-remain-in-photography
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
You might want to check the comments on that video... and how the actual technology it's describing works...
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
I did and nothing in them really negates what was discussed in the video and many many other articles on the subject.
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
Tifa has LAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't mean character-wise, it's about her gameplay, she has literally layers, look at this:
Normal:
Then using the first Command in Shortcut Menu:
First layer is added (yellow glowing fists):
After the second time of using aforementioned Shortcut Command, the second layer is added (red glowing fists):
Every layer has a different moveset, and for every additional layer the damage output increases (maybe not... it's a rough guess atm...it's late and I'm fukking tired).
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I don't mean character-wise, it's about her gameplay, she has literally layers, look at this:
Normal:
Then using the first Command in Shortcut Menu:
First layer is added (yellow glowing fists):
After the second time of using aforementioned Shortcut Command, the second layer is added (red glowing fists):
Every layer has a different moveset, and for every additional layer the damage output increases (maybe not... it's a rough guess atm...it's late and I'm fukking tired).
Demyx.InuChan
Shin-Ra supporter
- AKA
- InuChan
The new trailer was EPIC!!
Shademp
420
Confession time: The original version of the scene with President Shinra in the Mako Reactor #5 has bothered me for years and I was frustrated that I couldn't come up with a nice way to "fix it".
The original scene holds power, yes. It's an epic introductory scene and it perfectly sets the mood for how you should view President Shinra. Good stuff, no doubt.
But then it struck me how weird it is that Barret isn't just shooting President Shinra dead right on the spot. There's nothing stopping Barret other than Shinra's "aura". I just can't buy that the President's manners are enough to throw Barret off from all his motivations and emotions.
If any story is to be considered a balance between aesthetics and logic, Final Fantasy is admittedly one that leans more towards the former. Aesthetics in this case would be to value the emotional impact of having President Shinra be stupidly brave in front of AVALANCHE in Mako Reactor #5, while logic would dictate the hologram approach that the Remake is now showing us.
Naturally, due to aesthetics being the more subjective of these yin-yang forces your mileage will greatly vary on which scenario will "work" for you. I bet many, if not most, have no trouble imagining that President Shinra's presence is enough to make Barret's trigger-happy attitude reach a halt. But for me it doesn't work.
That's why I was absolutely ecstatic when I watched the new trailer and saw that they're going with the hologram route for President Shinra (and indeed Heidegger as well). The choice to have their holograms be absolutely huge is also a nice reflection of their respective egos.
I'm not beyond admitting that the Mako Reactor #5 scene could have worked in the Remake even if President Shinra was there in the flesh. Cutscenes are a lot like music and if you hit the right "tone" then you can get those goosebumps that makes you stop questioning what is happening. I'm also setting myself up by analyzing an emotional character like Barret, who is sometimes trigger-happy and sometimes not. Why does Barret not hesitate to shoot at Reno and Tseng but he hesitates to shoot President Shinra and Rufus? Why is Barret aggressive enough to point his gun at a passenger (the "Shinra Manager" NPC) while they are riding the train but he doesn't shoot President Shinra who is a primary cause behind all of Barret's suffering? Maybe it's best to simply view Barret as unpredictable and emotional, so expecting consistency and calculated behavior would be asking too much. Barret's a loosegatling gun cannon.
I can admit all these things and anticipate all the counter-arguments that may come. But the original Mako Reactor #5 scene still throws me off regardless.
The original scene holds power, yes. It's an epic introductory scene and it perfectly sets the mood for how you should view President Shinra. Good stuff, no doubt.
But then it struck me how weird it is that Barret isn't just shooting President Shinra dead right on the spot. There's nothing stopping Barret other than Shinra's "aura". I just can't buy that the President's manners are enough to throw Barret off from all his motivations and emotions.
If any story is to be considered a balance between aesthetics and logic, Final Fantasy is admittedly one that leans more towards the former. Aesthetics in this case would be to value the emotional impact of having President Shinra be stupidly brave in front of AVALANCHE in Mako Reactor #5, while logic would dictate the hologram approach that the Remake is now showing us.
Naturally, due to aesthetics being the more subjective of these yin-yang forces your mileage will greatly vary on which scenario will "work" for you. I bet many, if not most, have no trouble imagining that President Shinra's presence is enough to make Barret's trigger-happy attitude reach a halt. But for me it doesn't work.
That's why I was absolutely ecstatic when I watched the new trailer and saw that they're going with the hologram route for President Shinra (and indeed Heidegger as well). The choice to have their holograms be absolutely huge is also a nice reflection of their respective egos.
I'm not beyond admitting that the Mako Reactor #5 scene could have worked in the Remake even if President Shinra was there in the flesh. Cutscenes are a lot like music and if you hit the right "tone" then you can get those goosebumps that makes you stop questioning what is happening. I'm also setting myself up by analyzing an emotional character like Barret, who is sometimes trigger-happy and sometimes not. Why does Barret not hesitate to shoot at Reno and Tseng but he hesitates to shoot President Shinra and Rufus? Why is Barret aggressive enough to point his gun at a passenger (the "Shinra Manager" NPC) while they are riding the train but he doesn't shoot President Shinra who is a primary cause behind all of Barret's suffering? Maybe it's best to simply view Barret as unpredictable and emotional, so expecting consistency and calculated behavior would be asking too much. Barret's a loose
I can admit all these things and anticipate all the counter-arguments that may come. But the original Mako Reactor #5 scene still throws me off regardless.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Your arguments are persuasive, Shademp. I guess I feel nervous every time they make a major change to the OG, because it suggests they've made all sorts of other changes that we'll only see when the game comes out. And that's why I'm reluctant to buy my ticket for the hype train. In the last fews years SE has shown that it has got worse at telling a coherent story (in the FF series, anyway), and that it often makes the mistake of favouring style over substance.
FFShinra
Sharp Shinra Shill
SE seems cognizant of its recent reputation, and seems to really want to use the Remake to, if nothing else, change that perception of its work, both for this and going forward.
And yeah, everyone points to KH3 and FFXV, but look at XIV and how they turned that around. Infrastructural/corporate cultural changes take a sec to be felt, but I think we're now in that sweet spot of them having learned from their mistakes of the past decade or so.
And yeah, everyone points to KH3 and FFXV, but look at XIV and how they turned that around. Infrastructural/corporate cultural changes take a sec to be felt, but I think we're now in that sweet spot of them having learned from their mistakes of the past decade or so.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I do hope so. They're capable of producing something truly awesome.
billy22
Pro Adventurer
I'm still worried about the new story elements. Ghosts and now a new soulja boy. I can easily see them turning the plot into a convoluted mess.
Otherwise I like it. Characters look great. Interactions seem cool. Different ways to play the game. Dialogue choices. Stunning graphics. Gameplay and story aesthetics. Additional scenes. Mini games. Decent voice acting (although the writing could be better).
Otherwise I like it. Characters look great. Interactions seem cool. Different ways to play the game. Dialogue choices. Stunning graphics. Gameplay and story aesthetics. Additional scenes. Mini games. Decent voice acting (although the writing could be better).
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
The new story elements I’m less nervous about, because I can go to my mind palace and mentally skip whatever Denzel scene comes up. It’s the altering of original scenes that makes me more nervous.
@Shademp I admittedly uttered “brilliant!” to my pal when I saw the hologram. You’re right about Barret and the OG’s scene’s nonsensicality. I was so relieved that S-E was pouring through the old game and trying to address those little hiccups. There’s a lot more when you factor in what the team can do in battle versus what they can do during cutscenes — probably going to be exacerbated as we get hella powerful in Midgar, even before the “Sephiroth is so strong be afraid” flashback. I am still glad they are being mindful about delivering a more consistent story.
Back to the Shinra scene: I addressed this ‘hiccup’ in my novelization by having Barret actually take the shot, but for Shinra to have a barrier up. Until I read Lic’s argument, my thinking about the hologram was ‘that fix is as good as mine’ but now I’m not so sure.
To me, the purpose of his little visit was to utterly destroy AVALANCHE, and assert his dominance — he’s already asserting the dominance of his technology via Airbuster, but what about his own personal dominance? He goes down there himself to look them in the eye and tell them they are nothing. And then he gets in a helicopter to watch them die.
This is why the Wutai thing bugs me much more than the hologram. Instead of conveying the message ‘you’re nothing, I can’t be expected to know your name, you’re beginning to bore me, have fun dying, buh-bye’ what I am hearing from his one line (“you are henceforth allies of wicked Wutai, our sworn enemy.”) is ‘you’re a danger to me, but I have a plan.’ It’s like he doesn’t even expect them to die here. It sucks the confidence out of the character.
@Shademp I admittedly uttered “brilliant!” to my pal when I saw the hologram. You’re right about Barret and the OG’s scene’s nonsensicality. I was so relieved that S-E was pouring through the old game and trying to address those little hiccups. There’s a lot more when you factor in what the team can do in battle versus what they can do during cutscenes — probably going to be exacerbated as we get hella powerful in Midgar, even before the “Sephiroth is so strong be afraid” flashback. I am still glad they are being mindful about delivering a more consistent story.
Back to the Shinra scene: I addressed this ‘hiccup’ in my novelization by having Barret actually take the shot, but for Shinra to have a barrier up. Until I read Lic’s argument, my thinking about the hologram was ‘that fix is as good as mine’ but now I’m not so sure.
To me, the purpose of his little visit was to utterly destroy AVALANCHE, and assert his dominance — he’s already asserting the dominance of his technology via Airbuster, but what about his own personal dominance? He goes down there himself to look them in the eye and tell them they are nothing. And then he gets in a helicopter to watch them die.
This is why the Wutai thing bugs me much more than the hologram. Instead of conveying the message ‘you’re nothing, I can’t be expected to know your name, you’re beginning to bore me, have fun dying, buh-bye’ what I am hearing from his one line (“you are henceforth allies of wicked Wutai, our sworn enemy.”) is ‘you’re a danger to me, but I have a plan.’ It’s like he doesn’t even expect them to die here. It sucks the confidence out of the character.
Shademp
420
The full scene may give a different impression from what the trailer does, but all I'm currently sensing from the President-hologram bits in the trailer is absolute confidence.
"Henceforth allies of wicked Wutai, our sworn enemy."
What I'm reading from this, coupled with Heidegger's "You still don't understand your role in this", is this:
"I don't care whether you die now or later, I will use your actions for my own ends. Additionally, you are my puppets even if you don't know it. You are mere sewer rats whom I choose to enter into my own game. Like a James Bond villain I will tell you my plan, or at least hint at it, because I am so confident nothing can stop me. Thank you for giving me this chance to stroke my ego along with my best bro Heidegger."
I do agree however that President Shinra appearing on the scene with a barrier is a nice alternative and if I were a writer that's probably what I'd have gone with as well.
"Henceforth allies of wicked Wutai, our sworn enemy."
What I'm reading from this, coupled with Heidegger's "You still don't understand your role in this", is this:
"I don't care whether you die now or later, I will use your actions for my own ends. Additionally, you are my puppets even if you don't know it. You are mere sewer rats whom I choose to enter into my own game. Like a James Bond villain I will tell you my plan, or at least hint at it, because I am so confident nothing can stop me. Thank you for giving me this chance to stroke my ego along with my best bro Heidegger."
I do agree however that President Shinra appearing on the scene with a barrier is a nice alternative and if I were a writer that's probably what I'd have gone with as well.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
The scene with the president always bugged me in the original; to me, it always made the president more of a joke character than a legitimate threat. President Shinra, leader of a mega-corporation (and by extension ruler of all Midgar), took time out of his day controlling the people--just before a dinner party--to pop by a soon-to-explode reactor just to fanboy over Sephiroth and introduce a random boss to our heroes. He always felt like he showed up to serve the player, rather than as a character with his own reasons. He's there to be a capital-V Villain and pump up Sephy, that's it.
Because of this, I like the Remake scene a little better. A) showing up as a hologram is more time efficient, and seems like something you could fit in a busy schedule just for kicks, and B) mentioning Wutai is still cheesy Villain stuff ("Let me tell the heroes my evil plan!") but to me it makes more sense than just saying, "Hey, you're no Sephiroth--he was great wasn't he?--so Airbuster is going to kill you now."
Because of this, I like the Remake scene a little better. A) showing up as a hologram is more time efficient, and seems like something you could fit in a busy schedule just for kicks, and B) mentioning Wutai is still cheesy Villain stuff ("Let me tell the heroes my evil plan!") but to me it makes more sense than just saying, "Hey, you're no Sephiroth--he was great wasn't he?--so Airbuster is going to kill you now."
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I always loved the idea of Prez S showing up with naught but a Barrier to protect him. You may recall that Cloud & Co are pretty low level at this point and you can bet the Prez has the best protectives money can buy. Plus the six quadrillion snipers hidden in the wings, oh yes they'll probably get blown up in the explosion but plenty more where they came from, gyah-ha-ha.
Heidegger's VA will never be able to produce any laugh that is as iconic as "Gyah-ha-ha." And what will happen to Reeve's line about "Gyah-ha-ha and Kyah-ha-ha?" Will he try to imitate their laughs? That would be ridiculously hilarious.
Heidegger's VA will never be able to produce any laugh that is as iconic as "Gyah-ha-ha." And what will happen to Reeve's line about "Gyah-ha-ha and Kyah-ha-ha?" Will he try to imitate their laughs? That would be ridiculously hilarious.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
I can't tell if I'm dreading or looking forward to all of the fan discussion and video breakdowns of Heidegger's and Scarlet's laughs.
Erotic Materia
[CONFUSED SCREAMING]
You're all very good at covering the inner workings of characters, logic vs aesthetic, how "black" is Barret really, etc., etc.
But guys.
GUYS.
Can we please take a moment to focus on what we think all the characters look like when they get turned into frogs?
I mean, obviously, we know what Cloud looks like. He's got a little baby buster sword
It stands to reason that each character will have their own froggy alternative look, so that we can tell them apart at a glance. How do you think that'll manifest? For some, it'd be easy to guess, e.g. Aerith has a staff on her froggy back. But for others, like Red XIII, whose weapons are various hair accessories, that's not quite so obvious. So let's talk about that.
Here's what I think they might look like:
Aerith: lil baby staff...maybe her red jacket?
Barret: flat top and/or vest and/or sunglasses (or all three? God I hope)
Tifa: Her long hair? Maybe she'll have a white shirt
Red XIII: FROGGY MOHAWK!!!!
Yuffie: Shuriken on her back, maybe her trademark bandana
Cait Sith (I don't care what y'all say, I wanna see him): A frog with a tiny cat riding on his back, maybe little purple wings and/or fangs
Vincent: Obviously he's gotta have his cape
Cid: Lil froggy spear, maybe goggles too?
What say you?
But guys.
GUYS.
Can we please take a moment to focus on what we think all the characters look like when they get turned into frogs?
I mean, obviously, we know what Cloud looks like. He's got a little baby buster sword
It stands to reason that each character will have their own froggy alternative look, so that we can tell them apart at a glance. How do you think that'll manifest? For some, it'd be easy to guess, e.g. Aerith has a staff on her froggy back. But for others, like Red XIII, whose weapons are various hair accessories, that's not quite so obvious. So let's talk about that.
Here's what I think they might look like:
Aerith: lil baby staff...maybe her red jacket?
Barret: flat top and/or vest and/or sunglasses (or all three? God I hope)
Tifa: Her long hair? Maybe she'll have a white shirt
Red XIII: FROGGY MOHAWK!!!!
Yuffie: Shuriken on her back, maybe her trademark bandana
Cait Sith (I don't care what y'all say, I wanna see him): A frog with a tiny cat riding on his back, maybe little purple wings and/or fangs
Vincent: Obviously he's gotta have his cape
Cid: Lil froggy spear, maybe goggles too?
What say you?
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Oh man if I had the time I could google search all the frog species in the world and find one for each character. But for now
Red XIII
Tseng
Vincent
Yuffie
All glory to the hypnotoad
Red XIII
Tseng
Vincent
Yuffie
All glory to the hypnotoad
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I noticed in the very first trailer that Jessie and Biggs were highly polished and sexy, while poor Wedge seemed sort of... incompletedly rendered? The chubby cheeks doesn't even get to die in a sexy way.