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FFXIII Ultimania Omega info

#26
And Jihl's glasses are just for appearances. She just uses them to seem kind and trustworthy, so when she crushes them on the Palamecia it has no adverse effect on her abiliy to see or anything, it's just representing her showing her true self.
So she's kind of a backwards Lady Une?
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#27
I find it horribly sad that the fal'Cie do not even know their own creator(s). I wonder if this is one reason why Barthandelus/Orphan gave up on life?

Any word in the books about the fal'Cie in general? Their mannerisms? Their feelings? Their thoughts? Their culture/society?

I would love to know the feelings of Pulse and Lindzei when it comes to their fal'Cie, as well as the l'Cie they choose to have branded.

It would be cool to know if Pulse and/or Lindzei loved their/his fal'Cie.

^_^
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
#28
Okay, just stumbled upon this thread, and just... wow.

I'm very grateful someone pointed these out, and very enraged that SE only showed these information in the Ultimanias, which are only released in Japanese. Very, very enraged.

Anywho, these are very interesting. Just.. why did they not include these in the game?
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#29
btw, the status in Serah ans Snow's meeting place is fal'Cie Siren, some kind of sound/acoustic type of fal'Cie.
I just noticed it, but it looks like Siren has an offering table before her. It's got squash and related veggies on it. Yes, I replayed that part of the game recently.
 

Blade

That Man
AKA
Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
#30
Something I observed 'sorta'...

Although this 'twilight of the gods' cites Ragnarok (i.e. Fang and Vanille)...I'm not entirely sure the 'twilight' actually refers to the being Ragnarok in terms of prophetic notation...

I think it might refer to the point when the Chaos exits Etro's Gate at the end of FFXIII-2, personally...it looked a lot more "twi-lit" at least.

Basically when the world is enveloped in black chaos, it becomes a world of twilight, yes?
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#31
Does the Ultimania ever speak at length about Menrva? I mean, does it explain more about who she is/what she is (I remember it was revealed she's a type of fal'Cie), her complete role in regards to Barthandelus/Galenth Dysley, etc.? Thank you!!!
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
#32
Does the Ultimania ever speak at length about Menrva? I mean, does it explain more about who she is/what she is (I remember it was revealed she's a type of fal'Cie), her complete role in regards to Barthandelus/Galenth Dysley, etc.? Thank you!!!
She's the bulk of his power I guess.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#34
This is all I have found about Menrva in the Ultimania Omega (and a bonus bit about Ragnarok's design because it's part of the quote):

ラグナロクは召喚獣と同じく、第3の神エトロに関係するものなので、それぞれの召喚獣からいろいろな要素を取り入れています。たくさんある腕はヘカトンケイル、王冠はアレキサンダー、フリルはブリュンヒルデといった感じですね。ファングが変身するほうは、ファングとラグナロクの中間的な位置づけで、魔獣ラグナロクになりかけの状態です。右のミネルヴァは「ダイスリーのおつきとして飛んでいるもの」という発注があって、知識系の鳥といえばフクロウだと思ってこの姿にしました。ミネルヴァも一応コクーンのファルシで、その証拠に胸のところに人の顔がついています。

Like the eidolons, Ragnarok is related to the third god Etro, so it incorporates various elements from each eidolon. Many arms from Hecatoncheir, a crown from Alexander, frills from Brynhildr, things like that. The form Fang transforms into is somewhere between Fang and Ragnarok, an incomplete transformation. For Menrva to the right I was asked for 'a flying thing that acts as Dysley's retainer', and went with this design because owls come to mind when you think of intelligent birds. Menrva is also a type of Cocoon fal'Cie, and to show this there's a person's face on its breast.

***

神出鬼没のミネルヴァをウォッチング
ダイスリーが従えているフクロウ型ファルシのミネルヴァは、さまざまな理由で姿を現す。具体的には、ルシ一行を監視するとき(右記の①、②、③)、ルシ一行を乗せるための軍用艇に変形するとき(④、⑥)、ダイスリーが変身するとき(③、⑤、⑦、⑧)に登場しているのだ。

ミネルヴァが現れる場面
①ルシ一行がビルジ湖で脱出艇を見つけたとき
②ルシ一行が旗艦パラメキアで合流したとき
③ルシ一行がダイスリーと対峙したとき
④旗艦パラメキアが崩壊するとき
⑤ヲルバ卿でダイスリーが変身するとき
⑥ダイスリーがヲルバ卿を去るとき
⑦ルシ一行が聖誕座にたどり着いたとき
⑧バルトアンデルス(3回目)を倒したあと

ダイスリーがバルトアンデルスに変身するときは、ミネルヴァが毎回ダイスリーの杖の先にとまる。

Menrva Watching
Menrva, the owl fal'Cie that serves Dysley, shows up for many reasons. Specifically, it appears when it is monitoring the l'Cie (①, ②, ③), when it changes into a vessel for the l'Cie (④, ⑥), and when Dysley transforms (③, ⑤, ⑦, ⑧).

Scenes where Menrva appears
① when the l'Cie find an escape craft in Lake Bresha
② when the l'Cie reunite on the Palamecia
③ when the l'Cie confront Dysley
④ when the Palamecia is destroyed
⑤ when Dysley transforms in Oerba
⑥ when Dysley leaves Oerba
⑦ when the l'Cie arrive at the Narthex Throne
⑧ when the l'Cie defeat Barthandelus (3rd form)

When Dysley transforms into Barthandelus, Menrva perches on the end of his staff each time.

***

このフクロウはミネルヴァという名のファルシで、上位ファルシのバルトアンデルス(ダイスリー)にかわってルシ一行を監視・誘導するのが役目。ミネルヴァは道中でルシ一行を幾度も救う”奇跡”の立役者であり、”奇跡”が起きるときはミネルヴァの姿が見えることが多い。この場面でのミネルヴァの存在は、軍用艇がダイスリーの意図で用意された脱出手段だという事実を暗示している。

This owl is a fal'Cie named Menrva, and its duty is to monitor and guide the l'Cie in the stead of the high level fal'Cie Barthandelus (Dysley). Menrva is responsible for the "miracles" that save the l'Cie numerous times on their journey, and you can often see Menrva when the "miracles" occur. Menrva's presence in this scene hints at the fact that the military vessel is a means of escape arranged by Dysley.

***

バルトアンデルスのしもべであるミネルヴァは、主の命令でさまざまな姿に身を変える。ここでは、ビルジ湖でライトニングたちが利用したのと同型の軍用艇に変身し、彼らを目的地へ送り届けるべく自動的に航行を開始。第11章でも同様に姿を変え、一行の移動手段となる。

Barthandelus' servant Menrva transforms into various forms on its master's command. Here, it transforms into a military vessel of the same type that Lightning and the others used at Lake Bresha, and automatically charts a course to deliver them to their destination. It similarly transforms in chapter 11 into a means of transport for the group.

***

ミネルヴァが変身したこの軍用艇は、主人であるバルトアンデルスの加護を受けており、「ルシたちに真実を見せられる地」まで一行を無事に送り届けるべく、攻守において超常的な性能を発揮する。

This military vessel that Menrva transformed into is protected by its master Barthandelus, and in order to deliver the party safely to the 'land where the l'Cie may be shown the truth' it exhibits extraordinary offensive and defensive capabilities.
 
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Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#35
Thank you Hito. I guess I am trying to find out what exactly Menrva is in regards to Barthandelus. Sadly, it seems that we're not really told. I guess the truth is, she's a part of him; the female half of himself, I guess it is fair to say. I still sadly don't know if I can say this as an absolute truth though.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#36
Given that there are so many fal'Cie with a massive scale of duties (you go through dozens of door fal'Cie in the game, there are fal'Cie whose sole purpose is to be doors), I would put Menrva on the lower ranks (one of the quotes contrasts it with the 'high rank fal'Cie' Barthandelus, which I mistakenly missed out in my translation). Its function seems to be to support Dysley/Barthandelus and do what he wants, with no will of its own.

FFWiki claims it 'houses Barthandelus' power while he is in human form', which I'm not too sure about. I can see where the idea comes from, since it returns to him for each transformation in addition to turning into airships. But it's too much supposition for me to say for definite what it does.
 
#37
Thanks Hito. ur king final fantazy

I'm actually more interested in Ragnarok, I thought it was the most confusing thing about the ending. I got the part that Ragnarok was a mixture of Vanille and Fang's summons, but not everybody else's. So it's another power sent by Etros? Well I suppose we can blame Etros for almost everything. Is there anything said about Ragnarok?
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#38
I'd take all this with a grain of salt, but here's what the Collector's Edition Piggyback guide for FFXIII had to say about Barthandelus:

Why doesn't Barthandelus destroy Cocoon himself?
Powerful as he may seem, Barthandelus is as limited in scope as any other fal'Cie. He must rely on l'Cie to discover the true extent of human potential. As the Analects put it, fal'Cie were made with the Maker's purpose but humans were made with pieces of the divine spirit. The power of a fal'Cie is fixed but humans may attain a much greater power if they pursue it.

Furthermore, Barthandelus simply does not have the power or the strength to achieve his plans directly. That is why he needs to trick others into doing his bidding, and why his plans are founded on lies and deceit. Another translation of the name Barthandelus is "Baldanders", a reference to a mythical creature of many shapes and guises, as would befit the fal'Cie who masquerades as Sanctum hierarch Galenth Dysley. He is a master of illusion, as he demonstrates to the party by imitating Serah and, in the final scenes, by trying to trick Fang into believing that her friends have already turned into Cie'th. It is said that he possesses a rukh familiar called Menrva (referencing the goddess Minerva, or Athena, whose symbol was an owl), but it is possible that this is his true form.

The player may even notice that boss battles with Barthandelus are not rewarded with CP, and that he seems to survive each defeat unscathed, indicating that the party has been fighting a phantom or illusory form each time rather than the real fal'Cie. The secret of Barthandelus is that he possesses no real power of his own, but relies on his ability to manipulate the minds of others. Among the people, he spreads fear and mistrust. His design for the heroes is to inspire despair and hatred, knowing that he can then provoke them into attacking what they hold dearest.
Of course, it also says this, which we know isn't the case:

Study suggests that the fell demon Lindzei may well be the same entity as Barthandelus.
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
#39
Interesting!

I hope they can provide some info like this in Lightning Returns (unlikely I know! Just my wishful thinking.) since it's going to be a stand alone game (and well, it would presumably focus on the mythology's origins and of course conclude stuff), and also because we know Lightning acquired from Etro the truth about everything in XIII-2.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#40
so this is a thing i had lying around

FFXIII's Glimpse at the Crystal Mythos

[intro that just says FFXIII didn't touch on the mythos much but this page will look at what is shown from the Analects and such]


The 'Fabula Nova Crystallis'


The Gods

I: Pulse and Lindzei
There are countless gods in the 'Fabula Nova Crystallis' mythos, only three are revealed in this game: "Pulse, the god who created Gran Pulse and commanded the 'cultivation' of it"; "Lindzei, the god who created humanity and commanded the fal'Cie create Cocoon"; and "Etro, the goddess of death." Amongst these, Pulse and Lindzei each created fal'Cie, gave to them a Focus and left the world. Lindzei-born fal'Cie work to find Lindzei, and Pulse-born fal'Cie to find Pulse.

-
The Lord Pulse branding Lightning and the others. It is the fal'Cie who select l'Cie, but the role of the gods to brand them.


II: The Goddess Etro
Etro, called the 'god of death' in Gran Pulse legends, left the world before Pulse and Lindzei. In contrast to the others gods being currently in an unknown location, it is known that she exists in another dimension called the 'Unseen Realm'.
On rare occasions Etro will interact in human affairs through the door to the Unseen Realm. She will take action when she feels pity for something, for instance when a person dies she feels pity for them, and through the open door her power flows into the human realm. Additionally, the eidolons are sent by Etro when she can not bear to see l'Cie in despair.

-
When Etro interacts, the crystal's light appears through the door of the Unseen Realm.


・ Etro's Interactions with the l'Cie

When Fang transformed into Ragnarok and attempted to destroy Cocoon during the War of Transgression, Etro took pity on the people of Cocoon, and in addition to forcibly reversing Fang's transformation and turning her to crystal along with Vanille, puts them and the fal'Cie Anima to sleep. And in chapter 13, for the same reason she forcibly reverts Fang's transformation as she is about to destroy Orphan (> P.191). These interactions by Etro are shown through the brands being scorched, and the other l'Cie's brands being scorched after returning from being Cieth is proof of Etro's involvement (> P.193).

-
The brands of l'Cie who have had their transformations reversed by Etro appear scorched and no longer progress.


III: Unseen Realm
The Unseen Realm, where the goddess Etro resides, is located in a totally different dimension to that of the world created by the gods, and it is not known where it is. All fal'Cie believe the gods that created them are there, and so search for the door (gate) of the Unseen Realm.
One aspect of the Unseen Realm is that it is the place the souls of the dead go and, though just for an instant, the door to that world opens when a person dies. Thus Barthandelus attempts to force their god to descend by killing many of the people of Cocoon at once and throwing open the door.

-
The door to the Unseen Realm, which is shaped like an eye. When the door appears in Chapter 13, Etro's powers are at work.


fal'Cie

I: The Limit of the fal'Cie
The fal'Cie that appear in this game fall into two categories, the Pulse-born fal'Cie created by Pulse (the fal'Cie of Gran Pulse) and the Lindzei-born fal'Cie created by Lindzei (the fal'Cie of Cocoon and the Sanctum). They were all given a Focus by the gods and the power to fulfil it, but they cannot create any more power than that they were bestowed with, and so they turn humans into l'Cie to use them.


II: The Goal of the fal'Cie
The fal'Cie have their own individual Focus, but they also share a further common goal. That goal is to open the door of the Unseen Realm--the 'gate' that will lead to the gods that created them.
The Pulse-born fal'Cie believe that the door is somewhere on Gran Pulse, and look for it across the land. The phrase 'searching substance for the door' in Analect XIII (> P.197) refers to this.For example, Atmos searched within the earth for the door, Dahaka the skies, and Anima had l'Cie defeat monsters in the hopes of gaining clues about the door. On the other hand, the Lindzei-born fal'Cie as represented by Barthandelus attempt to bring forth the door by causing the death of many humans at one time. The phrase 'combing ether for the same' in Analect XIII refers to this.
Fal'Cie believe they can meet Pulse and Lindzei if they open the door, but it isn't known if that is true or not. It is also possible that in fact it is the gods themselves who seek the door, and have manipulated the thoughts of the fal'Cie to desire to meet their gods.

-
Pulse-born fal'Cie search for the door of the Unseen Realm through means that look like cultivation to humans.

-
Barthandelus, the leader of the Lindzei-born, attempts to bring forth the door with the sacrifice of the lives of the citizens of Cocoon.


l'Cie

I: The Brand of the l'Cie
Just as there are Pulse-born and Lindzei-born fal'Cie, l'Cie are also split into Pulse-born and Lindzei-born lineages based on the fal'Cie that made them a l'Cie. Pulse and Lindzei have their own different crests, but the brands on the bodies of Pulse-born and Lindzei-born l'Cie progress towards the complete form of the crests.

-
The l'Cie brands at their 13th stage match the crests of the gods that made each fal'Cie.

II: Crystallisation and its Reversal
A l'Cie will become a crystal when it fulfils the Focus given to them by the fal'Cie that made them a l'Cie, but if that fal'Cie orders it they can be released from their crystal state, and simultaneously be given a new Focus--this is grand principle of the l'Cie. However, during the game there are numerous instances where this principle is overruled. Among these, Vanille and Fang turning to crystal during the War of Transgression is the result of Etro's involvement, but there are several possible interpretations of Serah and Lightning's group's crystallisation and subsequent reversal (> P.201).

'Pulse-born' and 'Lindzei-born' are a change from what I had before ([x]-lineage), I don't know which I like better. Also the stuff in italics are image captions but I can't be arsed with getting the images right now.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
#41
There's only so many ways I can say "Hito you are awesome" but Hito, you are awesome.
When Fang transformed into Ragnarok and attempted to destroy Cocoon during the War of Transgression, Etro took pity on the people of Cocoon, and in addition to forcibly reversing Fang's transformation and turning her to crystal along with Vanille, puts them and the fal'Cie Anima to sleep. And in chapter 13, for the same reason she forcibly reverts Fang's transformation as she is about to destroy Orphan (> P.191). These interactions by Etro are shown through the brands being scorched, and the other l'Cie's brands being scorched after returning from being Cieth is proof of Etro's involvement (> P.193).
Oh okay, I guess that confirms that Ciething was not an illusion. I always assumed that the scorched brand came from the ability for humans to overcome fal'cie fates considering all the speeches made. I guess it makes better sense because it better explains why Fang's is scorched as well.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#42
I don't like how the actual story conflicts with what's presented on-screen. The game itself gives the impression that the l'Cie were able to overcome the Focus through unity and determination.
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
#43
I don't like how the actual story conflicts with what's presented on-screen. The game itself gives the impression that the l'Cie were able to overcome the Focus through unity and determination.
Yeah, this exactly (and I really don't like Etro too).
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#44
There was a line after they are unciethed that makes it sound like it was just a trick (ファルシ得意のまやかしだ). I will have to see what the script section says about that later.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#45
This is my take on this after a bit of reading:

I think the problem is that the influence of Etro in FFXIII, at least how you are made aware of it from just the game, is so subtle that it's easy to miss completely. Maybe I just don't pay enough attention and am a bit dumb, but I didn't realise a lot of it until doing further reading.

If you watch the scene again, with more of a mind as to what certain things symbolise, then it falls into place. The crystal shards that float in the air are a bit tricky, since they have two origins (appears when people die and at Etro's interventions) though both relate to the Unseen Realm. The gate to the Unseen Realm is more obscure. When I first played the game, I thought that eye looking thing behind Orphan (it appears when Orphan says 'Lo! The Day of Wrath is come!') was part of Orphan itself, rather than the gate to Etro. Didn't realise what it was during the ending either. But the gate stays there until the end, when it goes out after Cocoon is saved (the light in the centre of Cocoon that goes out during ending). And finally the brands being scorched as a sign that Etro intervened.

The crystal shards are very difficult to connect with Etro on your own given what the game alone says, which talks primarily about their relation to human deaths. The gate is at least mentioned in-game, though only as the door souls pass through rather than it opening when Etro acts. If they had shown some other instances of it, like people dying and the gate appearing, it might have helped make it clearer. (Though I suppose the gate might not physically manifest itself when people die, only when Etro uses her powers. Which still means that it could have appeared more when the eidolons did.) The brand is probably the easiest one to figure out on your own, as it mentions in the Analects a few times that Etro reversed Fang's transformation and it's a matter of connecting the dots from there (Fang was Ragnarok > Etro changed her back > Fang's brand is scorched > Scorched brands are something to do with Etro interfering).

With these things in mind, it's easier to work out what's going on. When Fang becomes Ragnarok and attacks Orphan, you see the gate appear behind it. This tells you that Etro is about to do something. Then you see Lightning, Snow, Sazh, and Hope back in human form. Their brands have been scorched, just like Fang's after her Ragnarok transformation hundreds of years ago. Since Etro reversed Fang's transformation in the past, and now the l'Cie have brands similar to her's, you can deduce that Etro was responsible for the transformation. (Of course, this is a deduction based on knowing the conclusion and signs already and just piecing them together using what is shown in the game.)

When Lightning says 'maybe it was more fal'Cie smoke and mirrors' (ファルシ得意のまやかし as Sazh's line after seeing Dahj and Serah's crystals shatter, Lightning says ファルシ好みの幻かもな; both were translated as the same thing in English), it sounds like it might be talking about them turning into Cieth and maybe that wasn't real. It's actually about them returning to human form. It's kind of a joke on Lightning's part, saying maybe this is just fal'Cie trickery, showing Fang her friends safe and back to normal again to mess with her. (The transformation is definitely real, caused by the shock of what Fang was planning on doing and the critical hit she inflicted on the rest of them.)

That's not to say that there is absolutely no involvement from the l'Cie. Out of the 'miracles' involving Etro (not the false ones from Dysley), there are two types: ones purely down to Etro, and others that occur due to the l'Cie's strength of will in addition to Etro's power being involved. The events of Fang's original transformation fall in the former category, but the ones seen during the final chapter (the l'Cie turning to normal and Fang and Vanille's Ragnarok saving Cocoon rather than destroying it) are the latter. Etro may have helped, but it was the l'Cie who made it happen.



anyway here are some trivia things i found while looking at the ultimania:

- if you look at the signposts and billboards in Oerba, you can see a few Gran Pulse phone numbers. There's 09987 for 'fresh fish', and 120242 for Strong Strange Technology ('Strong' was crossed out on the concept art itself). There's also a Pulsian Internet address on a billboard for 'Cycle Shop Marvoric'! (www.csom.co.gran) Evidentially there was a form of Internet on Gran Pulse at some point.

- Lightning's Blaze Edge weapon (which is a kind of railgun), for some reason, has Pulsian writing on it. It says 'invoke my name I am spark' and 'blinding instant', but says 'Lightning' in Cocoon lettering near the hilt. Other weapon inscriptions include 'super voltage' and 'hand made' on Lightning's Omega Weapon, and 'snow' and 'bear' on Snow's Wild Boar (wondering if that was meant to be 'boar' on the coat as well).
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
#46
Yay someone else finally has the info that I used to destroy people with on gamefaqs for months. :excited::excited: :faint:
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
#47
- if you look at the signposts and billboards in Oerba, you can see a few Gran Pulse phone numbers. There's 09987 for 'fresh fish', and 120242 for Strong Strange Technology ('Strong' was crossed out on the concept art itself). There's also a Pulsian Internet address on a billboard for 'Cycle Shop Marvoric'! (www.csom.co.gran) Evidentially there was a form of Internet on Gran Pulse at some point.
I always forget that Pulse was pretty modernized, with all the talk about ancient ruins. It would be interesting to see what would have happened to them if they didn't die out. And why Paddra seems so backwards, but I suppose being nomads don't help.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
#49
I feel I should like Etro, but I don't. Of course, as I previously stated many times, there are my own psychological reasons for this - mainly a painful past with my fellow human beings which does not leave me liking humanity all that much...

According to the small novel in the UO, fal'Cie can disguise themselves as humans.
Was this in regards to Dysley himself, or in general? I would say it's in general, but... I wished to inquire.
 
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