FFXV story/spoiler discussion thread.

[Blade]

@Blade - There's a Royal Arm in Costlemark's dungeon, yeah. You don't need to open that locked door to get it though. If you found the locked door in Costlemark but not the Royal Arm then you need to navigate the labyrinth correctly still (the big moving cubes)

Getting to the big room with the red giants and lift going back up (and small path to locked door) means you took a wrong turn somewhere. It'll keep throwing you there if you make a mistake.

That's just it. I can't even get inside the area below the tower.

Cor left a note about the sword being taken here, but I can't even get in.

I'm also getting a bunch of inaccessible bounties behind these locked dungeons.

I cleared them in the main story, but I have no idea how to get back in.

I haven't fully upgraded the Regalia yet either.

 

[Lex]

Question about Prompto for those who have finished the game:

Spoiler

Would the whole "twist" about him being a Magitek Trooper be both more impactful and work better with the established backstory if he hadn't known Noctis for years, and instead was just assigned to this group by the king at the outset (because the king knew the truth, but [insert reason for sending him anyway])?

In my mind, it would eliminate plothole questions about how they never knew his home life was a fabrication while also really driving home the bond that was forged during the journey when Noct and the others still continue to treat him the same as they always have.

This is something that's kind of impossible to say without reversing time and changing the plot to be the way you mention? Tbh I'd imagine it would be less impactful then, if not for the current semi-plot-holes surrounding the issue in question (I'm too lazy to spoiler tag again lol)

 

[ForceStealer]

Question about Prompto for those who have finished the game:

Spoiler

Would the whole "twist" about him being a Magitek Trooper be both more impactful and work better with the established backstory if he hadn't known Noctis for years, and instead was just assigned to this group by the king at the outset (because the king knew the truth, but [insert reason for sending him anyway])?

In my mind, it would eliminate plothole questions about how they never knew his home life was a fabrication while also really driving home the bond that was forged during the journey when Noct and the others still continue to treat him the same as they always have.

Spoiler

Weird that a Magitek Soldier can be fat, huh?

Maybe that's the tell-tale sign! *looks at Vyv*

 

[Jason Tandro]

Question about Prompto for those who have finished the game:

Spoiler

Would the whole "twist" about him being a Magitek Trooper be both more impactful and work better with the established backstory if he hadn't known Noctis for years, and instead was just assigned to this group by the king at the outset (because the king knew the truth, but [insert reason for sending him anyway])?

In my mind, it would eliminate plothole questions about how they never knew his home life was a fabrication while also really driving home the bond that was forged during the journey when Noct and the others still continue to treat him the same as they always have.

Spoiler

Weird that a Magitek Soldier can be fat, huh?

Maybe that's the tell-tale sign! *looks at Vyv*

Spoiler

Maybe... just maybe... it's a bit of hack writing designed to force an emotional beat to keep this game in line with other Final Fantasys by having a late game character reveal?

The Prompto revelation:

- Does not create tension / distrust amongst the group.
- Is not built up to at all.
- Does not have a major impact on the story (apart from him being able to unlock a door.
- Is immediately resolved.

The Lunafreya thing had weight to it and was foreshadowed pretty heavily.

The Ardyn thing while foreshadowed was still a pretty solid twist.

The Prompto thing was balls to the wall stupid. I didn't even mention it in my journals and I feel I should have because it's a prime example of the rushed sloppy storytelling of the game that is pretty much my only substantive grip with the game.

 

[ForceStealer]

No argument here.

Spoiler

On the Luna thing, one way in which X's "XV is Noctis' story alone" theory definitely holds water is that event. That Luna is paper-thin has already been well documented, but I was actually still really sad at her death. I was sad because of Noctis, which I know must give Bechtold adherents an aneurysm. But it was definitely sad...

 

[Jason Tandro]

No argument here.

Spoiler

On the Luna thing, one way in which X's "XV is Noctis' story alone" theory definitely holds water is that event. That Luna is paper-thin has already been well documented, but I was actually still really sad at her death. I was sad because of Noctis, which I know must give Bechtold adherents an aneurysm. But it was definitely sad...

Spoiler

I think that's a bit permissible too because, frankly, we're observing the story through the lens of Noctis. In FFX Tidus is our focal point though really we're seeing both Tidus's and Yuna's story play out. Here we are solely focused on how Noctis perceives the events.

In fact one of the few things the game did right as far as storytelling goes is build up how much the meeting with Luna meant to Noctis and how crushed and guilty he felt after what happened - especially with the later flashbacks that show that Luna was looking forward to it as much as him, washing him over with the guilt of "why didn't I get there sooner?"

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Haven't voiced much of my thoughts lately (partly because I've been too busy playing), but I got up to Chapter 9 last night, so I thought it was time to sum up my feelings up until this point.

They're in no particular order as far as story goes, sorry.

Spoiler

Altissia is so beautiful and so huge, I can't even. Square definitely did a good job; I feel like no matter how much I stop and rotate the camera there's always something I'll miss. Did manage to find the Vivienne Westwood boutique with Luna's wedding dress though. Ugh. It's so beautiful.

But as big as this city is, you'd think it'd have more of a role in the story, or you'd at least be able to come back to it at some point throughout the game. Haven't progressed toward the end of the chapter yet, but I know once you begin negotiations with Camelia you can't return to the city, like ever. What's that about? The biggest and most awesome city in the game and there's barely a handful of sidequests to flesh it out? What gives? I guess this is truly the point where the game stops being open world and starts getting more linear, like SE said. Either way, Umbra and I are gonna be making a bunch of trips back to Lucis. I'm in no rush.

I really enjoy the relationship that Noctis and co. have with each other. If you do a lot of the sidequests like I've been doing instead of pushing through the main storyline, their relationship gets fleshed out even more.

Cor. I really like his character. Wish we saw more of him. I hope chapter 8 isn't the last time we see him, but why do I have the nagging feeling that it is? Waste of a good character.

And speaking of wasting a good character... Feeling slightly peeved that I haven't seen more of Luna by now. I know some of us who've finished the game have pretty strong feeling towards the character (not all of them good), but I actually like her. Or maybe I should say I like her in Kingsglaive, considering she hasn't had shit to do so far.

I do feel like the sideplot of her going around and healing the sick as part of being an oracle is similar to the eary concept from FFX where Yuna was supposed to go around Spira healing the sick. Except that it really doesn't do anything for her character, aside from enforcing that she seems to be good of heart and doesn't have a bad bone in her body, and is driven solely by a sense of duty. I feel like her tricking Luche into putting on the ring in Kingsglaive is the most interesting moment she's had so far. Maybe that'll change, with the Leviathan fight coming up. I know shit starts going down when I we get to that point.

Ahh let's see, what else what else....

Meh, screw it, that's all I can think of for now. I stayed up way too late playing this fricking game last night. It's taking over my life. Maybe I'll be done with it by Christmas, who knows.

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

But as big as this city is, you'd think it'd have more of a role in the story, or you'd at least be able to come back to it at some point throughout the game. Haven't progressed toward the end of the chapter yet, but I know once you begin negotiations with Camelia you can't return to the city, like ever. What's that about?

Spoiler

Well you can come back to it the same way you come back to Lucis (that is, via Umbra), but did you mean something different?

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Spoiler

But as big as this city is, you'd think it'd have more of a role in the story, or you'd at least be able to come back to it at some point throughout the game. Haven't progressed toward the end of the chapter yet, but I know once you begin negotiations with Camelia you can't return to the city, like ever. What's that about?

Spoiler

Well you can come back to it the same way you come back to Lucis (that is, via Umbra), but did you mean something different?

Spoiler

Oh, so you can come back to Altissia via Umbra? I thought it was just Lucis you could go back to. I was looking for all the sidequests available to me in Altissia in the strategy guide and it said once you begin the negotiations you can't come back, which is what I assumed, but I guess I was wrong.

My bad.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Spoiler

But as big as this city is, you'd think it'd have more of a role in the story, or you'd at least be able to come back to it at some point throughout the game. Haven't progressed toward the end of the chapter yet, but I know once you begin negotiations with Camelia you can't return to the city, like ever. What's that about?

Spoiler

Well you can come back to it the same way you come back to Lucis (that is, via Umbra), but did you mean something different?

Spoiler

Oh, so you can come back to Altissia via Umbra? I thought it was just Lucis you could go back to. I was looking for all the sidequests available to me in Altissia in the strategy guide and it said once you begin the negotiations you can't come back, which is what I assumed, but I guess I was wrong.

My bad.

Heh. Maybe it was a Crown Patch update. But yeah if that was the case it would be the ultimate dick move.

 

[Joe]

Spoiler

Cor. I really like his character. Wish we saw more of him. I hope chapter 8 isn't the last time we see him, but why do I have the nagging feeling that it is? Waste of a good character.

Spoiler

I don't dislike Gladio but that's mostly because I don't think there's enough character there to dislike. Cor seems to show off more character in his very minimal amount of screentime.
I think their roles could have easily been combined in the story for a more interesting party member. Maybe that's just me.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

Spoiler

Cor. I really like his character. Wish we saw more of him. I hope chapter 8 isn't the last time we see him, but why do I have the nagging feeling that it is? Waste of a good character.

Spoiler

I don't dislike Gladio but that's mostly because I don't think there's enough character there to dislike. Cor seems to show off more character in his very minimal amount of screentime.
I think their roles could have easily been combined in the story for a more interesting party member. Maybe that's just me.

Spoiler

I think Gladio's shining moment for me (so far) was when he made Noctis pull his head out of his ass before the Titan battle. I wish we saw more of his thoughts regarding his father, Clarus; he had to have known that he would have died in the Crown City as well, along with Regis.

Cor seems like he had a lot of thought put into his character, and I remember during the Uncovered event one of the development team wasn't happy that among the popularity contest with the characters where they got gold stars on a poster board, Cor had the lowest amount of stars.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Spoiler: General Story Analysis Spoilers Aplenty - SERIOUSLY I SPOIL EVERYTHING DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU FINISHED THE GAME

My sister and I have come to the conclusion that the story suffers because they are simply trying to make the proverbial lightning strike again by recreating popular characters and emotional beats. Lith mention the obvious Cor = Auron reference but there's plenty more.

They desperately want Ardyn to be a new Kefka. And he's not. He's not a terrible bad guy but he's no Kefka.

Iris is the cute kooky girl next door, Selphie comes most to mind for me.

Cindy is tits and tech = Jessie, Tifa, etc.

Cid is... well Cid and I really love this version of Cid. Straight up he is one of my new favorites.

Iedolas is severely underplayed in the game but they were going for a Maester Mika or Emperor Gestahl and again missed the mark.

Aranea is a nice combination of Lightning, Celes, Leon and Kain.


Now let's talk about the forced, rushed emotional beats.

Hey kids, you loved Aerith's death? Let's have Lunafreya die. Yeah it had weight and was foreshadowed, but I'm convinced that's the only reason it's in there. The Lifestream-esque dream sequene at the end recreates Aerith falling into the abyss which is pretty powerful imagery (just ask Pixel )

Hey kids, you loved Tidus's self-sacrifice at the end of X? Well guess what Noct is going to sacrifice himself to save the world. Again, this was foreshadowed very well, particularly with Kingsglaive. Also side note, most people seem to be under the impression that the other three bros died as well. I mean I can see it, they were in the afterlife too, but if that's meant to be obvious they conveyed it incredibly poorly. I thought Ardyn just knocked them down, not killed them.

Hey kids, you like when we add suspicious character motivations like Kain, Rikku, and Celes? Well Prompto stupidity that we will do absolutely nothing with and doesn't inform the character at all and is immediately resolved!

Hey kids you love massive city destruction like Kilika? Well boom Altissia!


They tried very hard. They tried too hard. And the story suffered immensely for it.

 

[Blade]

The story wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't keep it all on ONE CONTINENT.

You might as well say that as soon as Cloud leaves Midgar the game is over.

I was hoping to pilot a Magitech, or even do some cross-continental boating, but nope.

So much was scrapped for money, and now they HAVE that money, but did they even learn anything?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Spoiler: ENDING DISCUSSION SPOILERS

Also side note, most people seem to be under the impression that the other three bros died as well. I mean I can see it, they were in the afterlife too, but if that's meant to be obvious they conveyed it incredibly poorly. I thought Ardyn just knocked them down, not killed them.

Spoiler

They did survive Ardyn's attack, but I suppose they could have died while fighting those daemons in front of the citadel when Noct went to die. I don't think that was the case, though. It was hardly presented as overwhelming numbers they were going up against compared to what they had already lived through. I'd also expect to have seen them in the final afterlife scene with Noct (one the ending would be better without, in my opinion) were that the case.

 

[Lex]

JT, what do you mean by

Spoiler

"they were in the afterlife too"? Why do people keep thinking that camping scene is an afterlife scene when it's clearly the only plausible explanation for all of them knowing what's about to happen to Noctis before he gets in the lift and the game purposely skips over the final camping scene? Has this been confirmed somewhere by SE?

If it hasn't, it's a flashback.

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

Yeah what? Where are they in the afterlife? You mean in the scene with he and Luna? I assumed they lived.

EDIT from Lex's post: Oh yeah, I absolutely thought that scene was from their final night camping. He's talking about the whole Insomnia thing in the future tense. It's a flashback, definitely.

Also, I'm not sure highlighting story beat similarities necessarily makes the case that that's what they were trying so hard to do so. Every FF reuses concepts and story archetypes. Some of them are likely the case, sure (like Prompto), but Iris being a cute girl next door is hardly evidence of tryhard-ing.

And Ardyn was definitely in the vein of Kefka, but that they "desperately wanted him to be the new Kefka" is a bit of a stretch. For one thing he's a much more personal villain than Kefka was.

I would like if someone could explain what his powers are. I get that that he's of the royal line. But where is his Armiger? Are there a bunch of other Royal Arms lying around somewhere?

 

[Joe]

Spoiler

They WERE in the 'afterlife' scene where Noctis confronts Ardyn. After Regis kills Noctis and the latter's spirit or w/e banishes Ardyn. Noctis is seen standing alongside all three amigos, as well as Regis. Plus Luna is also there healing Ardyn.

Pretty sure that's what they mean.

I don't think they're dead though. I always saw those three as projections of Noctis' inner strength.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think he's referring to the

Spoiler

brief shot of them standing around Noctis (Regis is there too) that's shown right before Noct puts Ardyn's soul to rest. I assumed it was just symbolism, but I can see why it would be taken otherwise.

EDIT: Yeah, what Joe said.

 

[ForceStealer]

Ah, I see, yeah I thought that was symbolism.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

After struggling with a debilitating camera glitch halfway through the Costlemark Tower dungeon, I finally completed it. Now to go about finishing the other dungeons and Randolpho's stuff, so that I can get ALL 14 PEOPLE to show up at Longwythe, because that's important to me.

Looking forward to the terrible platforming dungeon, though, I'm not sure if I'll get 'round to it before I go to Sweden. I am really enjoying just getting to kick back and keep playing. It's so very enjoyable even with the story (technically) completed.

Side note - I hated Altissia, because I got lost for hours in the rain / dark trying to get to that first place without paying attention that you needed to go there via Gondola, so I was wandering up and down levels and winding passageways for FAR too long in utter futility. In searching, I ran past the window with Lunafreya's dress about a thousand times before backtracking ALL the way to the start and passing the gossiping ladies and getting a quest to go look at it (thankfully I knew where it was but it made the whole scene absolutely ridiculous). Then I got Prompto's photo quest by the bar – which he refused to photograph because it was night and the lighting was bad – despite the fact that it's indoors underground and the daylight picture looks exactly the fucking same as it did in the middle of the night. So yeah. Aside from the 3x Exp Hotel, I have a deep loathing of Altissia, and eventually I hope that doing quests or whatever there changes my mind.




X

 

[ForceStealer]

lol, it took me awhile to find that first place too, although not hours. After I tried every possible staircase I just started getting on gondolas until something took me there

I didn't do any of the hunts though. I was in full plot mode at that point.

And after the final dungeon kicked my ass at first, I wanted to buy all those anti-daemon weapons. So I went back to Altissia to make a big ol' pile of money in monster betting

 

[Jason Tandro]

@ All:

Spoiler

Joe has it correct - I meant the Ardyn scene. I assumed it was power of love, or possibly the king summoning his glaive or some symbolic crap but everybody seems to be going "nope dey dead".

Frankly I think Noct's sacrifice has more impact if his friends have to carry on without him, plus why aren't they there with Noct and Luna. I assume we'll find out in the story patch.

And yeah the final camping scene was obviously a flashback. That was one of the few blatantly clear things in the story, apart from "damn we rushed this shit"

 

[Lex]

After struggling with a debilitating camera glitch halfway through the Costlemark Tower dungeon

did your camera completely freeze and refuse to move at all making navigation and fighting incredibly difficult

because that happened to me in exactly the same place and I'm still mad about it

 

[X-SOLDIER]

After struggling with a debilitating camera glitch halfway through the Costlemark Tower dungeon

did your camera completely freeze and refuse to move at all making navigation and fighting incredibly difficult

because that happened to me in exactly the same place and I'm still mad about it

YES. So, I'll detail the whole issue in case someone else encounters it.

So the crux of the issue is that you'll first notice it in battle when you trigger one of your allies' actions, and the camera doesn't cut to them. From that point on, your camera will remain stuck in whatever direction you Warp Strike (making things damn near impossible in this dungeon).

The good news is that triggering one of your allies' actions will free up your camera control UNTIL YOU WARP STRIKE AGAIN.

The tl;dr is that as soon as it happens, when a battle is wrapping up make sure to use an ally's move and then don't Warp Strike until the battle is over.


Jump to the timestamp in my stream recording.

• 6:34:00 you can see the end of a battle (using Ramuh) where I still have camera control.
• I go under a little crouching ledge.
• At 6:35:00 I get into a battle, and as soon as I use Prompto at 6:36:00, the camera doesn't cut to him and you can tell that it's totally fucked.

That's why it took me a DISGUSTINGLY long time to finish this dungeon, in addition to it already being a challenging ordeal. Good news is that Saving and Loading will fix it... but you can't Save/Load within a Dungeon, so.............



Also - does anyone have tactics for Grenades / Bombs / etc.? They seem like they're ABSURDLY difficult and must have some sort of trick to not getting utterly fucked by them.



X