FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED

Golden Ear

Golden Ear

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M. Prod
I still think Zack is currently in some kind of alt existence where events are very different but I like to consider other's theories. I'm mostly interested in understanding the perspective of those who go with a single timeline and I believe the majority are reasoning "singularity immunity" as you call it.

I think the idea is basically like you said and also that we come across or hear about dead doppelgängers of each of our main party members which is how its explained what Zack walked in on at the end of the Intermission DLC. The idea being that Zack walked in on a situation where the doppelgänger of Aerith has died, since like you said, she has been overwritten by the party now entering the new timeline.

I've also heard people suggest that the line from the Rebirth trailer where Tifa is talking about someone thinking she died and being an imposter is actually her talking to Johnny which may have seen or heard about her (doppelgängers) death. If I understand this correctly, the point of doing this is to add to the uncertainty of "What is Fact and What is Fiction".

In my opinion I think this would take away from Cloud being the unreliable narrator as it would essentially gaslight everyone in the game rather than have the party doubt Cloud's memories. Perhaps this is what those who go with a single timeline believe is the point though, since the mysteries are supposed to be in a new context that is different from the original game.

I also want to be clear I respect all theories even if I don't share them, I just like to learn and understand other's perspectives on this since it's all in good fun.
 
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Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I feel that Tifa line has a chance to happen in Northern Crater personally and not so much because Cloud believes she died, but because she will point out to him that what he says is full of shit.

The Whispers were building a second Midgar, which is I believe the place where Zack is shown at the end because the Midgar there is really too different from the one we know to be a honest mistake (unlike the plate problems).

The thing is, with the importance given to "memories" (of the future and the past), if Sephiroth wants to have a chance to win, he needs to modify the Planet's memories - and I do believe that's what he was trying to do, and why some Whispers during the game seemed corrupted, probably by the Lifestream itself with wrong memories.. The dark part that Aerith in CoLW is trying to fight. So by having Zack survive (why where the Whispers near the Shinra troops and not him, why are there very visibly less troops than in CC/R during the Last Stand?), he modifies a big memory of the Lifestream, making a reality shift.

HOWEVER. While it is in the Planet's memories, Zack is STILL DEAD. So basically, the Planet is altering its memories which should play a role in the future, until Cloud realises the truth in the Lifestream scene. It is interesting to me that the trailer has Cloud wondering where is Zack when it's normally something he should realise in this scene. It looks like they're getting a bit ahead of this and teasing it to me. It should happen in the Shinra Manor because it's the best place for him to realise it, as we discover the underground facility where they were kept.

But overall, the devs and especially Nojima have insisted on two things:

- the outline of the plot is still the same - it will be FFVII
- they want to integrate the Compilation more into the Re-trilogy

And I feel that those two points are often overlooked by theorycrafters while they are central to the story that is being told.
 
Golden Ear

Golden Ear

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M. Prod
One thing that may change my mind and consider it being now a single altered timeline is if all of Midgar, not just the party, had "singularity immunity" due to the whisper dome that was surrounding it right before the explosion. So basically the Midgar that we just played through was inserted into Zack's timeline, this includes everyone that was in Midgar which is basically everyone we've seen in the story up to this point.

That would make more sense because it would mean all of the characters including Shinra, Turks, Marlene, possibly Roche etc and all the character progression that we've have seen for them will still apply going forward so it wasn't all for nothing. They don't have to write in Reno and Rude not remembering Cloud and party or anything like that, or we don't have to have Roche be re-introduced to Cloud all over again which would be redundant story writing. Also I believe a developer interview said that Yuffie left Midgar about the same time as the Cloud and party so that could imply Yuffie was still inside Midgar and thus also have the singularity immunity going forward, so we're not running into a new Yuffie after everything we went through in the DLC.

Watching Brianna White in her latest upload made me think of this. She says that the whisper dome explosion phenomena seemed limited to Midgar, what was happening on the outside wasn't happening on the inside.


Now she might not know the details going forward of course, but when she played this in 2020 it's very likely she had knowledge of the script for future events of the story. Just an interesting bit of information but I would be interested to see what everyone's thoughts are on our Midgar and everyone in it now inserted into Zack's terrier existence.

Also the dust settling "all over"? As opposed to it settling in limited areas? 🧐 What? Why the distinction?

 
Golden Ear

Golden Ear

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M. Prod
You're probably right, she's just guessing what she thinks is happening or important like all of us. In that case I shouldn't take anything she says like it has any relevance. Back to Alt timelines for me 😅

I'm really just asking what others think rather than trying to tell other what is happening, I have no investment in any theory being correct.

Does anyone have any theories on the whisper dome explosion though? Does it seem relevant to anyone that what was shown was implying that something was happening inside of Midgar or to MIdgar relative to outside of it in those scenes with Zack? It's an interesting idea.
 
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cold_spirit

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Alex T
It is interesting visually. Note that inside the dome, from the party's perspective, it's nighttime. While outside the dome, from Zack's perspective, it's daytime. Additionally, the party can see it's nighttime beyond Midgar before the dome appears.

Later, after the dome explodes, the party and Zack cross paths on the cliffs overlooking Midgar. But only Aerith notices their presence. We therefore know they aren't occupying the same place at the same time.

And this is where interpretations begin to deviate. Which axis is off, time or space? Ultimately, all theories fall into one of three categories:

On the cliffs overlooking Midgar:
1. The party and Zack are in the same place at different times (i.e., single timeline, history was changed)
2. The party and Zack are in different places at the same time (i.e., multiverse, other universes were freed from the Whispers)
3. Zack is some type of anomaly (catch all for every other theory, including "Zack is dead")

I think the differing Stamp designs put us in scenario #2, but admittedly the jury is still out. The Ultimania pointed out this stuff years ago.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UpS4nDJr_vL3_ZF8oUoF1JEhUd0DYziJ

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roku

roku

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na.finalfantasy.com

New Year’s Greetings from FINAL FANTASY! | TOPICS | FINAL FANTASY PORTAL SITE | SQUARE ENIX

The entire FINAL FANTASY staff wishes you a happy and prosperous New Year! We've made a special illustration for you to enjoy alongside the followi...
na.finalfantasy.com na.finalfantasy.com

In his new years message Kitase reiterates that production is moving swiftly and mentions everyone "picturing how they'll recreate iconic scenes'.

Also there's going to be another huge announcement unrelated to ffvii.
 
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Ryeleigh

Ryeleigh

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Rye
cold_spirit said:
2. The party and Zack are in different places at the same time (i.e., multiverse, other universes were freed from the Whispers)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this has been asked already but I had a thought. Doesn't the existence of the Whispers kind of implicitly rule out the existence of multiverse? Because the Whispers were trying to keep the timeline intact, right? If there's a multiverse, what would they care about the timeline since it's going to be intact in one of them? Or vice versa, why would there be a multiverse if they're all the same?

Unless of course the multiverse was spawned when they were defeated?
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
roku said:
na.finalfantasy.com

New Year’s Greetings from FINAL FANTASY! | TOPICS | FINAL FANTASY PORTAL SITE | SQUARE ENIX

The entire FINAL FANTASY staff wishes you a happy and prosperous New Year! We've made a special illustration for you to enjoy alongside the followi...
na.finalfantasy.com na.finalfantasy.com

In his new years message Kitase reiterates that production is moving swiftly and mentions everyone "picturing how they'll recreate iconic scenes'.

Also there's going to be another huge announcement unrelated to ffvii.
Click to expand...
This pretty much confirms that this event is indeed happening - not the first time but they keep alluding to it and the fact that in the end, FFVIIR *is* FFVII revisited with hints at the Compilation.
 
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cold_spirit

cold_spirit

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Alex T
Ryeleigh said:
I'm not sure if this has been asked already but I had a thought. Doesn't the existence of the Whispers kind of implicitly rule out the existence of multiverse? Because the Whispers were trying to keep the timeline intact, right? If there's a multiverse, what would they care about the timeline since it's going to be intact in one of them? Or vice versa, why would there be a multiverse if they're all the same?

Unless of course the multiverse was spawned when they were defeated?
Click to expand...

The Whispers allow minor discrepancies. Taken directly from the Ultimania, the Whispers enforce "fate", which to them is the events of FFVII. But this is not a strict rule. There are quite a few new events in Remake that weren't in the original game, the prime example being Cloud's visit to Sector 7's plateside with Avalanche. Since it didn't totally derail "fate", the Whispers allowed it. It's a minor discrepancy.

Let's assume the differing Stamp designs are indicative of a multiverse. We see the Whispers are present for Zack's last stand in his reality. That would imply, to me, that the Whispers are trying to enforce the major events of the original game onto other universes as well. We don't know why. The Whispers' goal is even listed as one of four "newly arisen mysteries" in the Ultimania. I theorize that Stamp's design, like Cloud's visit to Sector 7's plateside, was deemed by them to be a minor discrepancy. I don't think the multiverse was spawned when the Whispers were defeated.

As other users have pointed out, the Whispers are not all-powerful. Their strength is limited. Even their so-called "fate" is simply their idea of what the future should be. As shown by the party's victory in Remake's ending, fate doesn't exist, free will wins out. I imagine this is why minor discrepancies are allowed. The Whispers simply don't have the means to absolutely constrain free will.

Let's use Steins;Gate as an example. In that story, "convergence points" exist across any given timeline. These points are events that absolutely will happen, such as the death of a major character. However, outside of that, discrepancies are allowed between similar timelines. Applied to FFVII, I think Zack's death is a "convergence point". In Zack's reality, the Whispers form a dome over Midgar to ensure that he is not able to enter. He must die and pass his legacy to Cloud.

In the party's reality, the Whispers actually aid them on the Midgar Expressway and their path is clear when they reach the city limits. That is FFVII as we know it. However, it's the mysterious Sephiroth that causes the Whispers to create the dome. The exact moment the Whispers act is when Cloud draws his sword, when he decides to fight the mysterious Sephiroth. Until then the Whispers were only watching. Considering that this Sephiroth is himself a newly arisen mystery, the ramifications on their fight could be severe, hence their action.

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1672579101076.png
 
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Ryeleigh

Ryeleigh

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AKA
Rye
cold_spirit said:
The Whispers allow minor discrepancies. Taken directly from the Ultimania, the Whispers enforce "fate", which to them is the events of FFVII. But this is not a strict rule. There are quite a few new events in Remake that weren't in the original game, the prime example being Cloud's visit to Sector 7's plateside with Avalanche. Since it didn't totally derail "fate", the Whispers allowed it. It's a minor discrepancy.

Let's assume the differing Stamp designs are indicative of a multiverse. We see the Whispers are present for Zack's last stand in his reality. That would imply, to me, that the Whispers are trying to enforce the major events of the original game onto other universes as well. We don't know why. The Whispers' goal is even listed as one of four "newly arisen mysteries" in the Ultimania. I theorize that Stamp's design, like Cloud's visit to Sector 7's plateside, was deemed by them to be a minor discrepancy. I don't think the multiverse was spawned when the Whispers were defeated.

As other users have pointed out, the Whispers are not all-powerful. Their strength is limited. Even their so-called "fate" is simply their idea of what the future should be. As shown by the party's victory in Remake's ending, fate doesn't exist, free will wins out. I imagine this is why minor discrepancies are allowed. The Whispers simply don't have the means to absolutely constrain free will.

Let's use Steins;Gate as an example. In that story, "convergence points" exist across the any given timeline. These points are events that absolutely will happen, such as the death of a major character. However, outside of that, discrepancies are allowed between similar timelines. Applied to FFVII, I think Zack's death is a "convergence point". In Zack's reality, the Whispers form a dome over Midgar to ensure that he is not allowed to enter. He must die and pass his legacy to Cloud.

In the party's reality, the Whispers actually aid them on the Midgar Expressway and their path is clear when they reach the city limits. That is FFVII as we know it. However, it's the mysterious Sephiroth that causes the Whispers to create the dome. The exact moment the Whispers act is when Cloud draws his sword, when he decides to fight the mysterious Sephiroth. Until then the Whispers were only watching. Considering that this Sephiroth is himself a newly arisen mystery, the ramifications on their fight could be severe, hence their action.

View attachment 13271

View attachment 13272
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Okay, thank you for the reply. (Sorry if that sounded flippant but I really don't know what else to add ^^; And I didn't to just, like, ignore your reply either.) Not really used to discussions about multiple timelines and universes and what have you and not sure if I like it, lol.
 
LNK

LNK

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Nate
Eerie said:
This pretty much confirms that this event is indeed happening - not the first time but they keep alluding to it and the fact that in the end, FFVIIR *is* FFVII revisited with hints at the Compilation.
Click to expand...

I immediately thought the same. It's really getting to the point that even if it's said specifically which scenes, people would still not believe them
 
roku

roku

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If that's the case I think it's best to view the remake project as a new game plus.
 
ultima786

ultima786

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ultima
Eerie said:
This pretty much confirms that this event is indeed happening - not the first time but they keep alluding to it and the fact that in the end, FFVIIR *is* FFVII revisited with hints at the Compilation.
Click to expand...
what event is happening?
 
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