Makoeyes987
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Yeah, and that's why I said it didn't affect the past. It affected the Planet's memory of the past. And in turn, certain people's memories of the past.
FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED
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Makoeyes987
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Chapter 18, Destiny's Crossroads. Because Cloud and the others defeated the Whispers, Sephiroth absorbed them, and then they all got blown up at the end when Sephiroth lost control of the Whispers after his defeat in the Singularity.
Golden Ear
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Do you think it was hinting towards something to do with Aerith? The music cue, the way her theme shifts into a dissonant version of her theme right as Zack transitions into the church and then swells and crescendos right on the word "Aerith" as the camera fades to black? Do you think the cinematic direction choices and symbolism have any indications on what the directors are hinting at with the way they approached that scene in terms of what Zack is walking in on?
Makoeyes987
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Clearly Aerith is involved somehow. He's unsurprisingly looking for her.
Golden Ear
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It's probably best to play it safe going into any detail on what it might be hinting at before we get any new info.
Makoeyes987
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Basically, my prediction is that the entire Zack subplot in connection to Cloud is going to be redone entirely as a way of keeping all audiences in suspense. A lot of fans have asked, "how could they release Crisis Core which spoils the important twist about Cloud's identity, also keep Zack being dead in CC's ending and somehow have it still make sense within the Remake?"
Because CC's depiction and revelation about Cloud won't matter.
The set up is now Zack is supposedly alive out there, based on Aerith's intuitive feelings from the Planet, Cloud's fragmented falsified memories and the endings we've seen so far from Part 1. The hook however, is that Tifa knows something is seriously wrong with Cloud's memories and they're unreliable. However, what's real and what isn't is going to be blurred for them, because there have been other characters surviving events they should not have, like Biggs. The hope that Zack is alive will ultimately be shown as an illusion due to the manipulation of Sephiroth, who will poke holes in Cloud's incorrect recollection of his past, identity and Zack's identity, utilizing the Planet's own record of reality and history. And it will be shown that the Sephiroth who existed in Chapter 18 isn't "real;" he's a thoughtform memory from the Planet that's become sentient due to his indomitable will, based on Sephiroth's past, present and future. Similar to how the Zack that they'll see and believe to have been alive, is nothing but a thoughtform memory based on the illusory past that was mistakenly created.
Because CC's depiction and revelation about Cloud won't matter.
The set up is now Zack is supposedly alive out there, based on Aerith's intuitive feelings from the Planet, Cloud's fragmented falsified memories and the endings we've seen so far from Part 1. The hook however, is that Tifa knows something is seriously wrong with Cloud's memories and they're unreliable. However, what's real and what isn't is going to be blurred for them, because there have been other characters surviving events they should not have, like Biggs. The hope that Zack is alive will ultimately be shown as an illusion due to the manipulation of Sephiroth, who will poke holes in Cloud's incorrect recollection of his past, identity and Zack's identity, utilizing the Planet's own record of reality and history. And it will be shown that the Sephiroth who existed in Chapter 18 isn't "real;" he's a thoughtform memory from the Planet that's become sentient due to his indomitable will, based on Sephiroth's past, present and future. Similar to how the Zack that they'll see and believe to have been alive, is nothing but a thoughtform memory based on the illusory past that was mistakenly created.
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Golden Ear
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So going forward, Zack isn't even really real, he's just an incorrect memory manifesting in reality. Does our incorrect manifestation of Zack have a consciousness? Or is he actually just a straight up illusion or somewhere in between if that's possible? Maybe the same questions for Biggs.
Maybe you answered that all ready. In that case, how are you interpreting the DLC ending in terms of this theory? What we see as Zack is just some kind of play out of a memory that is responding to new reality manifestation? As if this Zack illusion is responding like he has a conscious awareness but actually doesn't, like there is nothing actually there?
Maybe you answered that all ready. In that case, how are you interpreting the DLC ending in terms of this theory? What we see as Zack is just some kind of play out of a memory that is responding to new reality manifestation? As if this Zack illusion is responding like he has a conscious awareness but actually doesn't, like there is nothing actually there?
Makoeyes987
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I guess the state Zack is in depends on how much pathos and pain the writers want to inflict on the audience 
As for Biggs, I'm not sure. He may actually be alive, just because.
As for Biggs, I'm not sure. He may actually be alive, just because.
Golden Ear
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Fair enough, I'm just trying to understand how you're conceptualizing this theory.
It's also possible that these incorrect memories are manifesting in its own pocket of existence that is connected to our main reality via the lifestream. just a thought. Like when people go through some kind of trauma they can compartmentalize their memories of traumatic events, even have split personalities.
It's also possible that these incorrect memories are manifesting in its own pocket of existence that is connected to our main reality via the lifestream. just a thought. Like when people go through some kind of trauma they can compartmentalize their memories of traumatic events, even have split personalities.
Makoeyes987
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It's possible, and I would imagine that would be Sephiroth's way of turning the character's own hope for a "Promised Land" against them.
I also think Sephiroth will use the character's losses and pain as a means of trying to offer them a fake Promised Land as a means of torturing them. Specifically, Cloud
I also think Sephiroth will use the character's losses and pain as a means of trying to offer them a fake Promised Land as a means of torturing them. Specifically, Cloud
Golden Ear
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But he "will never be just (implied?) a memory."
But seriously I don't know, not sure I subscribe to that theory. But wether he's a thoughtform memory that became real/sentient or is just a real consciousness manifested through Jenova.... it just seems like- Which conceptualization do you prefer? How did Jenova create the manifestation of Sephiroth in the OG? Through a memory of Sephiroth? Can the same be said of the Sephiroth we are interacting with through the majority of remake?
But seriously I don't know, not sure I subscribe to that theory. But wether he's a thoughtform memory that became real/sentient or is just a real consciousness manifested through Jenova.... it just seems like- Which conceptualization do you prefer? How did Jenova create the manifestation of Sephiroth in the OG? Through a memory of Sephiroth? Can the same be said of the Sephiroth we are interacting with through the majority of remake?
Makoeyes987
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An applicable example of what I'm talking about would be Shuyin from FFX-2.
The Shuyin that is fought and opposed in the story isn't the actual spirit energy or soul of the Shuyin that died. It was his memory, specifically, his hateful memories and regrets that had grown so strong, they took on sentience and became able to possess and affect the material world. They weren't the true Shuyin, but a shade of him. His memory.
That's essentially what I'm talking about. A memory or shade that's so strong it begins to move on it's own.
Also, it would explain why Sephiroth's outfit appearance has changed since his return from death after the Nibelheim Incident. Sephiroth did not have that one-winged angel belt as a SOLDIER 1-C under Shinra. That accessory came afterwards. Something gave him that belt. The knowledge he gained from the Lifestream this time around, doesn't just come from the past or present. It includes the future now.
The Shuyin that is fought and opposed in the story isn't the actual spirit energy or soul of the Shuyin that died. It was his memory, specifically, his hateful memories and regrets that had grown so strong, they took on sentience and became able to possess and affect the material world. They weren't the true Shuyin, but a shade of him. His memory.
That's essentially what I'm talking about. A memory or shade that's so strong it begins to move on it's own.
Also, it would explain why Sephiroth's outfit appearance has changed since his return from death after the Nibelheim Incident. Sephiroth did not have that one-winged angel belt as a SOLDIER 1-C under Shinra. That accessory came afterwards. Something gave him that belt. The knowledge he gained from the Lifestream this time around, doesn't just come from the past or present. It includes the future now.
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Makoeyes987
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There are two Sephiroths, however they could easily end up becoming one. They seemingly share a consciousness and appearance. So I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 became 1.
cold_spirit
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The idea that altering the collective memory of an event (in this case, altering the lifestream) also effectively changes the past is really cool. In fact, it's too cool. To the point that I don't think Square Enix's storytellers are capable of something so... profound? Would've been nice though!
Wow, you're really underestimating them.
Golden Ear
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One idea I had while contemplating Cloud talking about Zack in the rebirth trailer was that at some point (possibly Nibelheim) Cloud actually does remember Zack being with him that 5 years ago. The twist being he remember Zack as the other infantry soldier, still believing himself to be 1st class. Like a flip of the memory.
Of course, if they did, I'm not sure how they would make it have any kind of important relevance or interest in terms of progression of the plot.
Of course, if they did, I'm not sure how they would make it have any kind of important relevance or interest in terms of progression of the plot.
Makoeyes987
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LOL I thought the same thing when I saw that trailer. I really think they're gonna go that route.
And the relevance would be in the mix up of Cloud's identity plot. Cloud isn't forgetting about Zack entirely, he's assuming his role and switching him with himself. Which will further confuse Tifa and Aerith. Especially if they think there's a possibility that Zack is somehow alive or just "missing."
They both appeared in Remake, right?
Makoeyes987
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Yes, because there's the actual Sephiroth who's still in the Northern Crater regenerating his body while utilizing Sephiroth Copies to do his will, and then the Sephiroth who appeared in Chapter 18... The actual, real Sephiroth who was called "wrong" by Aerith.
cold_spirit
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Hmmm, let me rephrase. I think that there will be aspects of this new story that we, the superfans, will overthink in the years between titles. In some cases we may even come up with solutions that are more interesting and exciting than what will ultimately be presented in Rebirth and Part 3. This happens all the time in our media landscape, especially now that multipart sagas are the norm. So yeah. I wouldn't say I underestimate NKN, in fact I find VII, VIII, and X to be incredible works of fiction. I'm even one of the few who praises the Whispers!
I like the idea of a Sephiroth in a far future, undissolved in the lifestream, altering the collective memory of an event and this having a perceivable effect on the characters. Especially when you consider that memory in VII's world is not just brain matter, it's the building block of all life. The idea is epic, intriguing, and the right amount of fantastical. I'd be happy if that were the foundation of the new story elements. However, I think there's a bit in the game that doesn't quite match up with it. For starters, Sephiroth is fighting to prevent the planet from becoming "part of it one day" (his exact words during the Edge of Creation scene). We don't know what "it" is. In fact, there's a lot of weird stuff going on that we don't know about (e.g., the infamous and oft-ignored Stamp bag, why was Zack's last stand affected, when did Aerith receive her other memories, what are the Whispers' ultimate goal, etc). So yeah, just trying to maintain a healthy amount of skepticism.
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Lulcielid
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『FF』シリーズ35周年記念番組が12月13日～18日にニコ生で配信。『I』～『XV』のストーリークリアを目指す実況やなどを実施 | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com
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FF7 Rebirth to be featured in "FINAL FANTASY" series 35th anniversary program on Niconico Live on December 13