FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH ANNOUNCED

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal

For someone making claims about FFVII's legacy they sure missed the part of the OG where you literally are left questioning the nature of a certain character's facts and determining if it's all fiction.

I suppose that kind of critical thinking for a 2 min trailer is too much. Like, yeah. It's going to be pretty different in execution (Cloud remembering Zack), however the trailer makes it pretty obvious they're leaning in on that key OG plot point just like before. Cloud's recollection of 5 years ago is front and center but people are too busy being butthurt over Zack.
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
The fact Cloud remembered his capture and confinement in Part 1 was actually hinting at this but it never quite hit me how much such a change could lead to this.

It's shocking but exciting at the same time. I expect that kind of recontextualization to exist within the whole game. Especially with it's questioning of what is fact, and what is fiction. That's pretty deep right there.
I'm right there with you. Rebirth's trailer heavily focuses on the living Zack and Cloud, it seems (with Angeal's feather?). No matter how closely this does or doesn't hews the original, there are some massive complications. They're emphasizing this.

Things might just not be blown up to a fraction of the degree Midgar was. Or maybe they nix an overworld and just go for linear zones with implied-long travel distance?
My guess is we aren't getting open world and a lot of the grasslands won't be explored. Corridors, chocobo, hitchhiking rides, cutscenes, whatever will fill it in. Which, given the party travels the entire globe, it probably wasn't always all on foot, either. I don't think things will be cut at all otherwise. Gongaga might be a really podunk little village without much depth. That stuff will be easy.

I'm expecting Rebirth to end at the Northern Crater with all the locations in between being there. Part Three will be far easier to develop as nearly every location will be covered.

We aren't losing much either. FFVII was never truly open world. The old FF world maps were just corridors (sometimes with options) that were cleverly disguised. You couldn't get past this mountain except in that one cave. You can't cross that river until you get a canoe. You can only visit this village in that desert... you can go to that cave, but you can't do anything yet. It's always been a corridor. Even FFXII was a corridor, just big thick hallways with multiple offshoots XD

On this, I'm leaning into wanting this to be a gambit between Sephiroth and Aerith wanting to remove a corrupted Minerva and take her place.
I do have hope that Minerva, Genesis, and all the like play into this game. I really hope the final part ties up every character, arc, story, etc to reallly close out all of FFVII. I want to see Elfe/Felicia in Remake graphics. I want to see the other Turks... I want to feel that we're closing the book permanently on Sephiroth. The only thing that could be left is telling the old story of the Cetra vs. Jenova. That's the only book end I want open (and don't need told at any point).

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind more revisiting the FF7verse. I really think they have something special here with the lore, but i want the final chapter to be final.

however the trailer makes it pretty obvious they're leaning in on that key OG plot point just like before. Cloud's recollection of 5 years ago is front and center but people are too busy being butthurt over Zack.
I think the trailer at least tosses some of this into new light, right? Cloud has a clearer understanding of Zack than in OG. Tifa's identity is questioned. There's some twists here. It's just like Remake - so close to the original but there's a gleam to it.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
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Tets
I've watched like over half a dozen reactions to the anniversary now and I just love how literally every. single. one. has people fiddling with the captions at the start.
Ourselves included!

Like, maybe they should start with a headsup that closed captions are available and *necessary*. Just putting it somewhere in the video description isn't enough :P
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
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Nate
I'd go into it with the expectation of just how the trailer presented itself.

Rebirth definitely seems to be sticking to the core main story points and how the characters are pursuing Sephiroth to stop him from seizing the Planet.

But there is real change here. The fact Cloud's flawed memory doesn't omit Zack but carries him within itself is pretty shocking. Like, that was a jawdropping moment for me. Tifa having a bit more edge in pointing out his flawed recollection is another. I'd even argue that this all makes Cloud's emulation of Zack more literal and is a result of the fact that Zack isn't quite dead. For all we know it could be a new form of compensation thanks to the Jenova cells and what happened within the Singularity.

Ultimately, it's a new exploration and depiction of Cloud's identity crisis. Zack is no longer nonexistent. He's something else, especially within Cloud's mind. The fact Cloud remembered his capture and confinement in Part 1 was actually hinting at this but it never quite hit me how much such a change could lead to this.

It's shocking but exciting at the same time. I expect that kind of recontextualization to exist within the whole game. Especially with it's questioning of what is fact, and what is fiction. That's pretty deep right there.

Those are all great points. I'm not really pausing about what we saw in the trailer though. It's just the statement Nomura made. Essentially saying, Rebirth is a great starting point for the players journey into ff7. That would be like saying Empire Strikes back is a great starting point for Star wars. That just seems kind of weird. Why would a start with the 2nd entry of a trilogy?
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
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Nate
Neah.

In multipart series and sequels, they're often created so that people unfamiliar can jump in without having to go through everything before it. But those who have experienced everything before will have a greater understanding of whats going on.

This is often publisher mandated, or pressed, in the film and novel publishing industry. So, I'd treat it like that.

Whats more important is the new journey talk.

This is what I was looking for, thanks!

I did not know multipart series/sequels were made this way. Knowing this now, it removes any pause
 
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ChOcOboO

Game-changer
This trailer ultimately confirmed what a lot of us had probably been thinking.

Aside from the obvious developer statements, we can see that "Rebirth" will be following the original's plot closely. And what an interesting choice to name it so as it calls to mind different things for different players.

Some think that this is their excuse to resetting the story because of the whispers (I don't agree), but to me it's more symbolic of the huge journey that we're taking and the fact that this is where a bulk of the story's conflict and major motivations will be revealed.

And most of all... After emerging from the lifestream Sephiroth wants to be reborn as the "God" of the planet after discovering that he has Jenova's cells inside of him. I think that's the crux of the title. We are being introduced to the main antagonist's intentions (all over again).
 

Roger

He/him
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Minato
Those are all great points. I'm not really pausing about what we saw in the trailer though. It's just the statement Nomura made. Essentially saying, Rebirth is a great starting point for the players journey into ff7. That would be like saying Empire Strikes back is a great starting point for Star wars. That just seems kind of weird. Why would a start with the 2nd entry of a trilogy?
I started with Empire. Didn't have the budget to just rent the trilogy, whichever one was coming on TV was what it was gonna start with. It's a dated line of thinking perhaps but the option to start with whatever is the new one in the gamestore/Playstation store should be seen as an option.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
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Nate
I started with Empire. Didn't have the budget to just rent the trilogy, whichever one was coming on TV was what it was gonna start with. It's a dated line of thinking perhaps but the option to start with whatever is the new one in the gamestore/Playstation store should be seen as an option.

I just never thought of it that way. I'd feel like I was starting in the middle of a story. But, I realize now, it's not actually necessity to do that. It only is, if you want to start from the very beginning.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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Smooth Criminal
Aside from the obvious developer statements, we can see that "Rebirth" will be following the original's plot closely.

I think it's more accurate to say, the themes and overall narrative are the same.

Because I gotta be honest, Cloud remembering Zack while still under the control of Jenova cells and acting out his false persona is a pretty ballsy change in adaption of the actual plot of FFVII. But it's ultimately a new direction that leads to the same core theme of Cloud's identity crisis.

Like, right now? Everything points to Cloud suffering from a literal delusion of grandeur and self reference. The Jenova cells in his mind have him directly acting out the role of Zack, had he survived and made it to Midgar.

He remembers the experimentation done to him.

He remembers fleeing Hojo and Shinra.

He states in this trailer he's looking for Zack.

He remembers fighting Sephiroth and him dying 5 years ago.

The only thing he doesn't remember is Zack's death.

In the OG, Cloud's memory of Zack and his experimentation by Shinra for over 4 years was non-existent. There were gaping holes in his memory. He knew things he couldn't have known, and didn't know things he should've known. However now? It's a smoothed over identity that fully mixes Cloud's trauma with the referential information and role played by Zack. While also acknowledging Zack.

That's hardcore delusion. The word "imposter" seems appropriate. "Fiction" also seems particularly meaningful.

Overall I think it's a very savvy and unique way of doing the plot fresh and unique. And it ultimately stays true to FFVII in a meaningful way. But honestly speaking, it is a big difference. :monster:
 

Leafonthebreeze

Any/All
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Leaf
I just never thought of it that way. I'd feel like I was starting in the middle of a story. But, I realize now, it's not actually necessity to do that. It only is, if you want to start from the very beginning.

According to my housemates, they claimed that Mass Effect 3 could be a great starting point for the rest of the series. I think it's just one of those things they have to say when putting out a new game to cover all their bases, regardless of how accurate it is.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
In the Remake Cloud was still not hearing Zack's name and telling Aerith there was no one in SOLDIER he was particularly close too, also tells Biggs that he's has the Buster Sword for a long time. It seems that the delusion is gonna start getting a lot better at rolling with the punches, incorporating anything contradictory that is encountered.
 

Odysseus

Ninja Potato
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Ody
Mako stop you're almost agreeing with me lol.

In the Remake Cloud was still not hearing Zack's name and telling Aerith there was no one in SOLDIER he was particularly close too, also tells Biggs that he's has the Buster Sword for a long time. It seems that the delusion is gonna start getting a lot better at rolling with the punches, incorporating anything contradictory that is encountered.

Here, it's really worth reading what the Ultimania Omega says about Jenova's powers.
211.png
Jenova's Mimic ability is responsible for Cloud's false memories in the original. As long as Cloud's not tipped over the edge, it can probably accommodate for Zack's existence as well if it has to. He's just "another SOLDIER who was there too" in Cloud's memories now, and he can't remember what happened to him. I just wonder what causes Cloud to remember him in the first place? Probably something occurs while he's recounting his story.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
In the Remake Cloud was still not hearing Zack's name and telling Aerith there was no one in SOLDIER he was particularly close too, also tells Biggs that he's has the Buster Sword for a long time. It seems that the delusion is gonna start getting a lot better at rolling with the punches, incorporating anything contradictory that is encountered.

That's why I feel 99% certain that to Cloud, Zack was the infantryman Cloud was. Really think they're going all in on Cloud thinking he's Zack.

Which is so fucking ironic. Because that's been a huge misconception in FFVII fandom... That Cloud's false persona was some 1:1 copy of Zack.

Apparently that's... Going to need to be amended now. For the Remake, at least.

Mako stop you're almost agreeing with me lol.

I still am not seeing Genesis suddenly swooping in here, so we still disagree where it counts :awesome:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I just wonder what causes Cloud to remember him in the first place? Probably something occurs while he's recounting his story

Either something in the chain of events of Rebirth's story or it could even be memory alteration thanks to the Zack surviving his last stand thanks to the fight in the Singularity.

Either way, yes. The Jenova cells are clearly accommodating and tightening Cloud's false persona so it functions better.

It kinda blows my mind I didn't pick up the significance of Cloud's recollection of Hojo, being experimented on and Cloud's "that's the Shinra I know" line in chapter 13. Cloud never remembered that, it was a gaping hole in his memories during the OG.

I think the fact Cloud's brain censored Zack's name and any references to him dulled my awareness of it. :monster:
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
This trailer ultimately confirmed what a lot of us had probably been thinking.

Aside from the obvious developer statements, we can see that "Rebirth" will be following the original's plot closely. And what an interesting choice to name it so as it calls to mind different things for different players.

Some think that this is their excuse to resetting the story because of the whispers (I don't agree), but to me it's more symbolic of the huge journey that we're taking and the fact that this is where a bulk of the story's conflict and major motivations will be revealed.

And most of all... After emerging from the lifestream Sephiroth wants to be reborn as the "God" of the planet after discovering that he has Jenova's cells inside of him. I think that's the crux of the title. We are being introduced to the main antagonist's intentions (all over again).

If you're just speculating and are going to enjoy the ride either way, then thats great. However, if you're hanging on for it being close to the original, then I'd probably be more open minded to avoid disappointment.

The end of part 1, how Aerith framed the trailer, the callbacks to Aeriths death, the dialogue between Cloud and Tifa seeming early and more direct - confrontational even, CC being given a remaster/remake bringing him forward to new fans; is signalling to me that we are going to be quite some way from Kansas.

I really don't see how any of this is signalling that FF7 is going to be business as usual here. While it might follow the locations and kind of character events of OG, I think its going to change and detour quite a bit.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
Mako stop you're almost agreeing with me lol.



Here, it's really worth reading what the Ultimania Omega says about Jenova's powers.
Jenova's Mimic ability is responsible for Cloud's false memories in the original. As long as Cloud's not tipped over the edge, it can probably accommodate for Zack's existence as well if it has to. He's just "another SOLDIER who was there too" in Cloud's memories now, and he can't remember what happened to him. I just wonder what causes Cloud to remember him in the first place? Probably something occurs while he's recounting his story.

Thats an interesting take. I also think @Makoeyes987 is onto something and its interesting. I don't see how its not going to have some pretty profound implications as to how this plays out compared to OG though.
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
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Eh?
That's why I feel 99% certain that to Cloud, Zack was the infantryman Cloud was. Really think they're going all in on Cloud thinking he's Zack.

Which is so fucking ironic. Because that's been a huge misconception in FFVII fandom... That Cloud's false persona was some 1:1 copy of Zack.

Apparently that's... Going to need to be amended now. For the Remake, at least.



I still am not seeing Genesis suddenly swooping in here, so we still disagree where it counts :awesome:

While I know its technically a misconception, its also not so far removed from reality. His mind is a garbolled mess of real, Jenova stuff, and Zacks stories; and these tend to lean into him believing Zacks past is his.

Sorry for multiposts, multi-quote doesn't like my phone.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
OK, I rewatched the trailer in JP with Audrey's subtitles this time, as well as the FR version! It does give a freaking different impression and it's incredibly more explanatory. They are also giving a clear outline about what's important in FFVII: the future of the Planet, Sephiroth's intent, and Cloud's identity troubles.

At the start, clearly the description is about Sephiroth, and his reason for attacking Nibelheim, as well as worrying about the future of the Planet. What's "amusing" to me is that "Sadness and anger are what makes us strong." can also apply to Cloud as it's what drove him when he attacked and killed Sephiroth. It was literally how he killed Sephiroth, but the second part "but it will change us" is also a clear reference to Sephiroth. It made me go "is this why Sephiroth is trying to manipulate Cloud, to make him change?" If we think about it, it's the reason why he killed Aerith.

The Nibelheim area looks absolutely gorgeous!

Cloud and Tifa's lines in FR are very interesting:
Cloud: T'étais étendue sur le sol. // You were lying on the floor.
Cloud: Alors j'ai pensé que c'était trop tard. // So I thought it was too late.
Tifa: Tu veux dire que... tu crois que je suis morte ? Que je suis pas la même Tifa qu'à l'époque c'est ça ? // You mean that... you believe that I am dead? That I am not the same Tifa than back then, do you?

Tifa's lines clearly replace the OG's "..." to Cloud's comment. What's interesting to me is that Cloud, at this moment, is not sure that he is Cloud of Nibelheim, he does wonder that about himself. I am sure that he reassures her tho because we do know that it's Tifa's faith in him that makes him able to go on with his masquerade. We must not forget that this moment is very important, as Tifa hears his side of the story for the first time and doubts because... he does know things he shouldn't! So, does SHE herself remember clearly? She's been nearly killed and passed away for a long time after all. I feel that SE is trying to make us understand Tifa's own doubts at this moment, about what she knows, what Cloud knows, it's all messy. It's also something fans have been harping on about her for long, so I am 100% certain that they want to clear up this.

In French "what facts are only fiction?" is kind of hitting hard :') We see Aerith praying for Holy and Holy in the water juuuuuuuuuust before that line, a bigger hint of what's to come. The final flashback in front of Midgar... What Cloud says isn't correlated with this flashback I think. We see Zack and Cloud in front of Midgar but... I think this might be a scene from Zack's side, from before he arrived in the church in Intergrade. The outskirts don't look like the Last Stand's one, but from a little after the crew passed them at the very end of Remake. So I think we're seeing Zack's side there.

Cloud could be an added or changed dream (like the one he has in Junon), or it could be a memory triggered in the mansion when they find stuff about their capture. It's kind of easy to add. It could be Nibelheim, but it could also be a new location (from an OG perspective) when they met elsewhere in CC - I don't remember the name sorry. It is however most probably in Nibelheim. The fact that Cloud remembers Zack when Jenova specifically prevented him to even hear that name when Aerith asked him about Zack is very interesting. It makes me think that it's a dream because it's the only way for the real Cloud to plug in, so to speak, but even then we've seen Jenova manipulate his dream with his mother. So I wonder what is the justification of this all and how we're going to get this - clearly this time around Zack has the proper weight in FFVII's story.

Clearly too Aerith's iconic line is from the GS date - it's very ballsy of SE to use that line for a Zerith feel lol. It also means that the GS dates will still be there - and as I stated before we'll have more clerith on the way too, because just like in the OG, Aerith needs to fall for Cloud. As for Zack's line "sorry, I don't know how to help you" feels like what he's telling CLOUD at this moment, in front of Midgar. Because he realises Cloud is too far gone and he can't help him at all. He probably felt helpless, not able to help his friend. I think this is why he was alone in front of the church, because he probably left him to someone in the hope they'd be able to help him.

In short: we're being given FFVII as promised. With just a pinch of Zack!

FR version for those who can speak and read French:
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
I just never thought of it that way. I'd feel like I was starting in the middle of a story. But, I realize now, it's not actually necessity to do that. It only is, if you want to start from the very beginning.

I think a good modern example would be stuff like The Witcher.

You can play any Witcher game without reading the novels and understand whats going on, despite it acting as a sequel. You can also play The Witcher games in any order and understand whats going on without playing the others despite them following on from each other. Most people enter The Witchers universe from TW3.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
the dialogue between Cloud and Tifa seeming early and more direct - confrontational even

I mean this line was perfectly reasonable and would be perfectly at home with a lot of the first game's "original story, but with expanded and more realistic characterization."

The rest is fair, though.
 
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