Final Fantasy VIII General Discussion

[leadmyskeptic]

Deling was DEFINITELY cool. If I remember correctly, that was the one that was based on Paris? (Since a bunch of the major FF8 locations were based on real-life cities). Had that whole 'constant night' vibe going, but where Midgar's was seedy and dangerous, Deling's was...classy? Shopping center!!

Esthar is intriguing, but I remember always feeling a bit creeped out by it...might have to do with the in-game history, though, and the Laguna bits before you actually get there.

I feel like saying Balamb Garden is like saying Midgar, so I won't say it, although I think the live-in-school vibe it creates throughout 8 doesn't get enough love.

My favorites would probably have to be Dollet, just on architecture alone, and then Shumi Village...much like Cosmo Canyon in 7, Shumi Village in 8 had the type of appearance and vibe that made me think, if I was a character in this world, this is the place I'd want to go and just hunker down and live forever, tucked away from all that chaos and craziness happening out there in the world...

 

[RedFFWolf]

So what exactly happens if you let the time expire during the train hijacking? I can't find anything nor can I test it myself due to the PS3 acting shoddy.

As far as I am aware, the segment just restarts [with characters being unaware of this - sort of like Link falling into lava in OoT is like "Whoops, let's pretend that didn't just happen] - the consequence though is that you don't gain a SeeD rank.

I also don't know whether I saw this somewhere online too or tested for myself a good while back; most likely the latter
I think it just fades to black (but music still playing) with the options "Start Over" or "Quit", with the former giving you an extended time limit [and the aforementioned consequence of SeeD rank] and the latter bringing you to the Game Over screen.

Now I've just found these to help support this idea:
http://www.nightsolo.net/games/ff8/part3.html
http://www.gamewinners.com/walkthrough/final_fantasy_8/page3-5.htm
(And even this: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Walkthrough:Final_Fantasy_VIII/Paramina/Part_7 - but it's not as sure of itself as the above two)

Favorite town/location??

Balamb Garden is the Hogwarts of Final Fantasy!

If anyone has ever glossed over the Balamb Garden Kiosk at the start of the game, I'd encourage you to take your time to explore it again. It really brings a lot of life to Garden from sheer messages alone. Raijin being warned off for not returning his books; the Trepies (Quistis appreciation club) needing to be put into place by moderator Xu; Selphie chronicling her life as a transfer student (and even later in the game updating this with inclusions from the rest of the gang); Seifer leaving a message trying to find out who one boasting troublemaker is; and the demand for hot dogs being a major source of trouble. It's one of those enjoyable reads I missed and didn't appreciate on my earlier playthroughs.

Deling City has a very cool vibe.
Galbadia Garden is as tense full as it is empty.
Esthar City needs to exist in this world.

I've come to appreciate the atmosphere of Timber while its under martial law (especially with the accompanying music of the same name) - going to the Timber Maniacs building, the editor's room, is a favourite. But as for its aesthetics it's not up there with others as a location, as much as I like trains.
But, with that being said, a lot of these locations I enjoy are primarily because of the atmosphere generated, and mostly thanks to the music. (Such as why I love Winhill during the Laguna sequence but am a lot less interested visiting it later with Squall)

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Yes, the Kiosk is great! Wimbly Donner failing out due to Garden Festival obsession. Also, isn't the loudmouth Zell if I remember correctly? Or am I thinking of something else? Actually, there's a lot of stuff you can easily miss in the Garden that adds to that atmosphere...the girl in the library, the cafeteria lady and her stories about her son...the fact that you could explore it as Irvine (with corresponding different dialogue) was something I didn't even realize til my last playthrough

 

[RedFFWolf]

Indeed - I remember that name, Wimbly Donner, and as soon as I googled it to discover more I found the wiki link had the text by Wimbly in the study panel - it even foreshadows elements of Selphie's experience. There are a lot of scenes I tend to miss out on. Squall being told off by Instructor Aki for swinging his gunblade about (and later, for showing magic), and getting Zell together with the girl in the library and the scenes in the Balamb Hotel afterwards. There's another one I had in mind before typing this but forgot, but perhaps not for long if the urge to play FFVIII fully consumes me now
You know you're dealing with a fantasy game/land when you really want to go the corresponding school there

Oh, and it's not Zell who is the loudmouth.
There we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WACjxaX-Rt4&t=6m7s found it. So it was in the same discussion the Trepies were having and Xu intervened too.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Ah, great find! I would imagine most Let's Players skip right over the study panel for fear of boring viewers, but honestly, things like that are the main reason I'm drawn to RPG's....I put UP with things like battles to spend time at things like in-universe message boards haha. It's almost strange seeing it as a YT video, because since these are single-player games, a lot of the events are things you end up experiencing by yourself, it was almost strange seeing it so public. (Other people know about this too?!) 7 and 8 are both universes I've found myself daydreaming about living in. I would totally attend Balamb Garden. And I would most likely pull a total Wimbly Donner and screw up the Seed exam haha.

Oh, and there's a few other oft-missed scenes especially in Fisherman's Horizon...and then, if you go to Shumi Village and come back, there's the whole thing with the Master Fisherman and the Grease Monkey. I actually really dig 'plot based' side quests

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^Yeah, when you control Irvine when he's picking instruments for everyone to play you can actually take him all over FH. That and the fact that the mayor's wife has his Triple Triad card makes me think he had something to do with the place earlier in life and then left for reasons.

It's also interesting that Irvine and Rinoa are the only non-SEED members of the party, which makes me wonder what he was doing at Galbadia Garden in the first place...

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Super delayed response (Hadn't been back on the board), but really interesting suggestion about Irvine and FH...and yeah, I mean, especially if he's the top sharpshooter, shouldn't he be a shoe-in for a SEED? Otherwise, wouldn't they pick THAT sharpshooter for the most important assassination-attempt in the world?

In general, I've always found him a bit of a mysterious character. I know a lot of players are simply put-off by the bravado he puts up as a front (I was when I first played back in the day), but especially considering he reveals later that he NEVER forgot their past--unless I'm misunderstanding what's said--that's a REALLY interesting angle to his character. I mean thinking about Irvine being aware of their shared history from the moment he strolls up after air-shooting that butterfly off his finger, really puts a different spin on things...

 

[RedFFWolf]

I really rate Irvine as a character.
Only through Balamb Garden does one become a SeeD. There is an option to transfer to take the exam and become SeeD - it's like in Trabia Garden they are trained to become a SeeD but the exams take place only in Balamb, hence why Selphie transfers to Balamb. So, he could've been training in other fields, such as sharpshooting, or just wasn't interested in becoming a SeeD.

And you're right in that he didn't forget his past. All Irvine says when he is asked why he didn't say anything is that it sucked that the others seemed to have forgotten, since they didn't recognise him upon their first meeting (as he recognised them). A question that I see floating about is whether at the time of the assassination Irvine recognised Edea for who she was. I've seen sources claim the Ultimanias back this up, yet without sourcing to the Ultimanias themselves (and I can't find the related sections on this site either). However, during his talk about their past, he says "Look alike? Nah, that's not it. Matron's name is Edea Kramer. Matron IS Sorceress Edea." And it's not like his memory was jogged when Quistis first asks "Remember matron?" - at least, he doesn't react. It suggests that he knew who she was already - it does not necessitate that this was the reason he choked during the assassination attempt, but it's a likelihood - after all, if he is aware that the rest seemed to have forgotten their past, him saying "it's matron, I can't do it" isn't going to mean anything to Squall, unless he dedicated the time there to explain everything.

Sure, in the end, GF are to blame for all this memory madness. (And Irvine never used GF, whereas everyone else did, even Selphie when she found one inside a monster at 12-years-old)

 

[Unit-01]

So that's a really weird, as you guys are talking about FH and the whole concert part, I just got done it.

I have the mobile base now, and tried to go to the Hell Island to get some good magic, but of course you need the Ragnarok which idk when I'll be getting it. VIII has been pretty good so far, things took a twist with Master Norg being some time of creature. Looking forward to the rest of the game, but I can't say I enjoy the whole junction system.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

@RedFFWolf: See for me, the whole "GFs cause memory loss" angle was a cop-out. Nobody actually forgot anything, they just didn't have reason to think of their past for a long time. I've seen similar conversations happen between my parents and their siblings about events they all remember. Usually, it takes one person to get the memory going and then everyone starts remembering details they didn't remember before.

For the "GFs cause memory loss" aspect to have worked for me, it would have needed for everyone to have not known what Irvine was talking about and just have no memory of their childhood at all.

 

[Unit-01]

So I just finished FF8 last night, with a total of like 25 hours of time put into it.

I usually don't say much, and even less that is negative. Also SPOILERS for all of those who care, which shouldn't be many.

So the story was pretty enjoyable for the most part, I really didn't mind when it turned into a love story between Rinoa and Squall, and in some aspects it made sense. However some of the story elements came out of nowhere with very little explanation. Like Ultimecia on one hands comes out of nowhere and you only see her character less than a handful of times before you face her in the Final battle.

On top of this, the whole thing with Edea being Matron and being the one who happened to take care of everyone when they where all living together in an Orphanage. Which they had forgotten do to the passing mention of Guardian Forces causing memory loss.
I had honestly thought I missed some key thing that mentioned Edea as being Matron before hand, but I don't think I did. Also the whole thing with Ellone, and how she was the Big Sister everyone had. Not so much as not explained, but it takes a while to realize how her story connects with Laguna, and also that the Laguna flashbacks take place a good 10-20 years before the start of the game.

Also what was with the whole moon subplot going on and the Sea of Monsters that traveled to the earth at the location of the Lunic Pandora? Cause aside from a SeeD saying it caused some damage it's never mentioned again.

The game suffers from some not so well explained plot points that are quickly glossed over. Or some that just come out of nowhere.

Aside from all of this, I really did enjoy this game... It was a different way different from VII in a lot of ways. Also the Ragnarok is the coolest looking airship as I've seen so far. It's also really nice how the story ends, with everyone being happy and one ship being confirmed as canon(I guess).

I'll likely play through it again over the summer. Now I've got IX, X/X-2 and VI I have wanted to experience for a while now.

 

[Blade]

To be honest as far as the plot goes, the game was limited in how it could express itself.

1. The graphics weren't as good to express facial expressions unless it was a cutscene, other than that, you had to rely on body language for the most part.
2. The game relies heavily on text for dialogue and exposition... making it effectively a "silent film" of sorts.

If you take those 2 things in to consideration, plot point explanation could only do so much with what they had to work with, and writers can only do so much with the story without having to cut certain things out.

In fact, that's something many FF writers have never talked about, the stuff that WAS cut.

If FFVIII ever got a "Director's Cut", I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that might have been explained in more detail. That goes for many FFs I think.

 

[Lex]

^I don't really buy either of those points because FF's I - IX had the exact same limitations and most didn't suffer from the same plot/ exposition issues that VIII has. Yes, there are worse problems in some of those and different problems in the rest, but the point stands.

 

[Clement Rage]

@RedFFWolf: See for me, the whole "GFs cause memory loss" angle was a cop-out. Nobody actually forgot anything, they just didn't have reason to think of their past for a long time. I've seen similar conversations happen between my parents and their siblings about events they all remember. Usually, it takes one person to get the memory going and then everyone starts remembering details they didn't remember before.

For the "GFs cause memory loss" aspect to have worked for me, it would have needed for everyone to have not known what Irvine was talking about and just have no memory of their childhood at all.

Details and events, yes. Years and major events of their lives, no. But they're more 'blocked' than 'lost', true.

 

[Flintlock]

So I just finished FF8 last night, with a total of like 25 hours of time put into it.

Was it your first completion? If so, that's a really good time! You must have skipped most of the optional content though; I took over 99:59:59 on my first playthrough. Then again, I was just a kid.

 

[Unit-01]

Yea, I skipped a lot of the option stuff. I had no want to play-though everything in the game, I just didn't like the combat all that much.

To be fair, on the steam release there is the HiSpeed option, this was used by me almost 90% of the time the game was on, so if you where to take that off, say I put like an extra 5 or 10 hours on.

 

[Kuja9001]

So I just finished FF8 last night, with a total of like 25 hours of time put into it.

Was it your first completion? If so, that's a really good time! You must have skipped most of the optional content though; I took over 99:59:59 on my first playthrough. Then again, I was just a kid.

This is my original save file from like 2000

Pause at 47 sec for my time.

 

[Lex]

Why have you disabled embed playing?

 

[Unit-01]

So I just finished FF8 last night, with a total of like 25 hours of time put into it.

Was it your first completion? If so, that's a really good time! You must have skipped most of the optional content though; I took over 99:59:59 on my first playthrough. Then again, I was just a kid.

This is my original save file from like 2000

Pause at 47 sec for my time.

I personally haven't had too much efficiency when it comes to RPGs, but um teach me?

Like what do you do to max and crap within 12 hours, if I could do that in a day and I'd feel accomplished as hell.

I'm playing VI atm and have like 16 hours into it, but I just got to WoR.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Some very interesting points in this thread! Some of my thoughts:
The GF memory loss thing WAS a cop out, but I dig the whole "we were fated to end up together as a group, we separate and keep continually being drawn together" thing, cliche as it might be, and since the GF thing was only mentioned once or twice as a way of making it make sense, I accept it. They could've just as easily said, "It was a spell", or "We forgot", and I'd still be down.

Also, compared to (some) of the other FF's, there are TONS of extraneous plot things that are under-mentioned, at least unless you really dig into optional dialogue or even extra stuff like the Ultimania. Having absorbed a lot of this info, I find it like hidden treasure, but it is no DOUBT a game flaw in the most literal sense. I mean, when I first played this (I was...hmm...12?) I didn't even realize Laguna was Squall's FATHER. I mean, it's never technically SAID, but come on. I also would find myself getting mixed up with who was controlling who and when, so it took me quite a while to realize that even though it seems like Ultimecia is just whipped out at the end (which she is), you've TECHNICALLY been dealing with her the whole time, via Edea. But Adel is still herself...right?? (See, confusing)

Also, Sicarius: So cool that you're giving some of the old FF's a run! I would have a lot of questions for af irst time ff8 player, actually, but most importantly...what did you think of the cast? That seems to be what can make or break an FF for a player.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

A side question spurred from all of this: Partially as a result of talking about all this stuff, I finally checked out the FF8 Ultimania translations on this site...and I loved it! The actual translation work was great, and the extra effort to include matching images to simulate reading the actual Ultimania makes it a million times more satisfying than reading a dry "Gamefaqs" post or some such...but, seeing as they were done about 6 years ago, I'm assuming there's not ever going to be any more translations other than what's already up?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I intended to do more and just ended up devoting my energy to other things. I don't currently have any plans to translate what's left from that book (the character profiles), but never say never.

 

[Unit-01]

I didn't even realize Laguna was Squall's FATHER.

WHATT!?!?! I totally missed this.

I agree with you (not quoted)and if not made the same case, a lot is underplayed and not even explained, and unfortunately the game suffered from it.

Also, Sicarius: So cool that you're giving some of the old FF's a run! I would have a lot of questions for a first time ff8 player, actually, but most importantly...what did you think of the cast? That seems to be what can make or break an FF for a player.

Yea I actually started 6 now(half way there) and just bought 4 and Afteryears because it was on sale for $11 in Steam this week.

You are right too I clearly had some questions, but I think I just realized the plot wasn't really developed all to well in comparison to VII or as I'm seeing now VI.

As for the cast, I did like them and if I didn't I think I'd would've stopped playing the game. Squall in particular reminded me of Cloud and now I understand why soo many people loop them together in games like Dissidia FF. Having that interpersonal struggle is what gives Squall his character, and then being thrown out his comfort zone with Rinoa in several situations. It is admittedly a little fast when Squall just decides to go with his feeling towards her, but it makes more sense than some of the other stuff in this game.

To summarize I didn't really dislike any characters besides Seifer, and even then compared to like Kefka or Sephiroth, there aren't any really terrible assholes in this game that cause you so much trouble, it's more of the main cast coming together to put a stop to Ultimecia the bad guy that's been patiently waiting in the background.

So don't get me wrong I still enjoyed the game, but the drawing system and at times poorly explained plot really threw me off, and that's a shame.

 

[Clement Rage]

Some very interesting points in this thread! Some of my thoughts:
The GF memory loss thing WAS a cop out, but I dig the whole "we were fated to end up together as a group, we separate and keep continually being drawn together" thing, cliche as it might be, and since the GF thing was only mentioned once or twice as a way of making it make sense, I accept it. They could've just as easily said, "It was a spell", or "We forgot", and I'd still be down.

Also, compared to (some) of the other FF's, there are TONS of extraneous plot things that are under-mentioned, at least unless you really dig into optional dialogue or even extra stuff like the Ultimania. Having absorbed a lot of this info, I find it like hidden treasure, but it is no DOUBT a game flaw in the most literal sense. I mean, when I first played this (I was...hmm...12?) I didn't even realize Laguna was Squall's FATHER. I mean, it's never technically SAID, but come on. I also would find myself getting mixed up with who was controlling who and when, so it took me quite a while to realize that even though it seems like Ultimecia is just whipped out at the end (which she is), you've TECHNICALLY been dealing with her the whole time, via Edea. But Adel is still herself...right?? (See, confusing)

Also, Sicarius: So cool that you're giving some of the old FF's a run! I would have a lot of questions for af irst time ff8 player, actually, but most importantly...what did you think of the cast? That seems to be what can make or break an FF for a player.

That's an interesting question, actually. Was Adel herself? During the war, she was also obsessed with Ellone and used very similar tactics to find her. Was she Ulti's first attempt at Time Compression?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Adel was briefly possessed by Ulti when Ellone sent her and Rinoa into the past to initiate Time Compression. That's probably how she learned about Ellone.

Ulti also possessed her during the fight in Lunatic Pandora (when Squall and co. killed her).