Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
So Amazon screwed up and only sent the guide, didn't put the game in the box. Says both were delivered. :rage:

Went to Gamestop, I'll get a refund from Amazon. There's more than one way to skin a moogle.

Okay but don't actually skin a moogle. D:
 

Jason Tandro

Banned
AKA
Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
Hope you all are having fun with this one. My plan is to pick up a copy when I get to XII in the Retrospective Pod. Who knows, maybe I'll actually beat it this time. :monster:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Due to the amazon snafu I got a later start than I wanted, but I got to the end of Garamsythe Waterway with Amalia as a guest. So far I'm remembering things pretty well. The fast-forward is excellent for when you see a chest at the end of an empty hallway, lol. So far Vaan is a Monk, Penelo Uhlan, Balthier Machinist, and Fran Red Mage. I guess everyone can use a base weapon class no matter their job (I worried that Fran couldn't use the bow she had or that Vaan wouldn't be bale to use the dagger once I selected another job).

Game looks pretty good, the license board in particular looks very crisp and nice, not sure what exactly it is about that specifically. It's definitely a PS2-era camera though, haha. Raising distinct jobs already has me more invested in my character progression. I still forget you have to buy everything twice in this game though, started unlocking spells for Fran and then wondering why I couldn't find them to use. It's also remarkable just how noticeable the orchestrated soundtrack is, good stuff. The non-tin-can-ified vocals are also welcome.

Wish I could skip work today.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Planning on stopping by Gamestop after work to pick my copy up today. Not sure if I can start this yet, though.
 
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Russell

.. ? ..
AKA
King of the Potato People
I was struggling with the second or third hunt/bounty/mark (whatever). The flower Cactoid, then I realised I hadn't picked jobs for Penelo or Vann
So I had no idea what job to pick for which character so I took a peek on here...

Vaan makes an EXCELLENT Shikari/Hunter

God-Queen Penelo - Red Mage (this is why she went from my least favorite to God-Queen)

Penelo decimated that little prick with 'Dark'. :monster:
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Unless something changes my mind as I'm playing, my finalized decisions are thus:

Ashe: Knight/Black Mage
Balthier: Machinist/White Mage
Fran: Red Mage/Foebreaker

Vaan: Monk/Shikari
Penelo: Uhlan/Samurai
Basch: Time Mage/Archer


I'm still a bit tempted to give Ashe Samurai/Black Mage instead of Knight/Black Mage, but I'm still not sure where to stick Knight if I did that, so I anticipate sticking with this.

The guide, Prima notwithstanding, gave me exactly what I wanted - full job boards, and a list both by job and by Esper of the abilities that are blocked off unless you give that Esper to that job. Also cool that you can bypass that entirely if your secondary job unlocks node in an otherwise unreachable part of the board, allowing you to give the Esper to someone else.
 

Russell

.. ? ..
AKA
King of the Potato People
Here's what I've got so far:

Vaan: Shikari/ ?
Penelo: Red Mage/ ?
Balthier: Machinist/White Mage
Fran: Archer/Time Mage
Basch: Knight/ ?
Ashe: ?

I noticed Machinist/Archer have a lot of 'Gain MP when damaged' and the like so I think they would synergise well with Mage jobs. Any suggestions for Ashe?


Also how do mist abilites work?
I just used one and i'm sure it said R2 ro 'Randomise'...
But it said times up befoer I could react. Is it like Squall's limit break?
 

Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
Black Mage Ashe is really good, and so is Samurai. She's the only character to reach an innate 99 in physical and magical damage stats, so it works really well either way (katana scale off of both, and obv magic does magic damage)
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I'd advice against making Balthier a machinist though, due to the fact that his animation with the gun is his slowest. Same for Fran as an Archer.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
^Which is so dumb, lol. But as a Bunansa, he's a relative of Mustadio, famed Ivalician Machinist in Tactics era, so I'll suffer the slow animations, haha. But I will make Fran a physical fighter.
 

lithiumkatana17

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lith
Yeah, I was holding off on jobs for Balthier and Fran for a bit, but going through the Barheim Passage I said fuck it and selected their first classes, like I already did with Vaan and Penelo when I was running around with them.

I think it's BS that Balthier and Fran suck with the weapons they start off with, especially since they're shown with bows and guns in their fricking renders for the game, so I said fuck it and made Balthier a Machinist and Fran and Archer to start off with. It's really no big deal to me, considering I've usually had them stick with their default weapons in the past, and only switched them out when I was facing tough foes or was grinding. Fran is supposed to be a really good Red Battlemage too, but I always liked sticking her with katanas and ninja swords in the past, so I is torn. :(

Vaan is a Knight, Penny is my Black Mage. I wanted to make her my White Mage as well because, again, it's what I always used to do, but I may give White Mage to Ashe, since her magic is on par with Penny's.

I'm thinking of making Basch my Foebreaker, because he is a fucking GOD with axes and hammers (at least he was in my playthroughs).

My thing is I'd like to keep both jobs for the characters in similar classes, because the idea of switching a character's armor for different roles is unappealing to me.
 

Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
I'd advice against making Balthier a machinist though, due to the fact that his animation with the gun is his slowest. Same for Fran as an Archer.
knowing things like this is why ilu

I'm still trying to plan out my party. I really enjoyed my two three-man setups in IZJS of Shikari/Breaker/Red Mage and White Mage/Uhlan/Samurai, but had intended to swap Samurai for Black Mage. Now? Idek. The job combos are something I'll have to look into. Seems like Shikari/Breaker would probably be excellent.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I'd advice against making Balthier a machinist though, due to the fact that his animation with the gun is his slowest. Same for Fran as an Archer.
knowing things like this is why ilu
:-*

Another thing worth pointing out, which is also applicable to other classes/ characters, is how a weapon's attack power isn't based on strength or magick power alone. Like for example, the attack power of Daggers, Bows and Ninja swords are based on the character's strength and speed. Since Balthier is the fastest character, he'll get far more use of those weapons than some of the slower characters (Basch being the slowest).

Jobs do not raise stat levels directly, they need to be raised through Augments, armour or accessories. There are no Augments on the Licence Board that give extra Speed. The only stat risers beside +HP is Battle Lore (+Str) and Magick Lore (+Mag). In IZJS/ TZA it's of course restricted per Job/ Licence Board what kind of Augments you get access to. So the only way to increase Speed and Vitality is to give access to Speed enhancing armor and accessories.

Damage calculation for Daggers, Bows and Ninja swords:

76060a38c55b15b469230f00560fc906.png


Which indicates that Balthier could work pretty well as an Archer,* if you set up Vaan or Basch as tank instead of Balthier. (Vaan and Basch both have better HP, but high Vit and Spd is nice for a tank.)

* I just read this which suggest you avoid Bows for Balthier as well.

Save for a few other weird examples (like the Hand Bombs being effective for characters with high Vitality) attack power is mostly calculated by a character's strength, but worth noting is that physical defence and magickal defence does come into play for some weapons. Take Poles for instance, which are more effective on enemies with low magick resistance. Which means if you pair a Pole user with a character with Deshell, you have a pretty effective combo.

Also note that a Katana's damage is calculated by strength AND Magick power. Which makes it a good Attack weapon for a mage - Ashe in particular.

Full list
A nice write up

Edit: Oh, and the reason Balthier and Fran is slower with their original weapons is because they went a bit overboard with their animations. Wanted them to look cool and shit :monster:
 
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Joker

We have come to terms
AKA
Godot
It's also worth taking speed of animation into account, as well as the fact that typically, male characters tend to combo more often than females. (iirc?)
 

Fangu

Great Old One
Oh, and this:
Also how do mist abilites work?
They're called Quickenings: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Quickening_(ability)

each character can purchase up to 3 Quickenings from the Licence board. In vanilla XII they cost MP to use, but in IZJS/TZA they don't (there's more in that link I posted).

You need to press R2 to roulette to a new skill once one is fired off, but there's a set limit of time, and every time you try for a new skill, the timer keeps going down.

Basically, the bigger chain you get going, the more damage you do, but the process is time consuming, boring and can be frustrating. They're a nice way to finish a boss fight if you're down to 10% HP or whatnot and are having a hard time. The animations are pretty though. I must be strong!

Oh, and:
It's also worth taking speed of animation into account, as well as the fact that typically, male characters tend to combo more often than females. (iirc?)
Nah, there's no set rule for that. Combos are determined from the weapon itself, a character's HP (< 6.25% iirc HP combos more) and the Genji glove. To be exact: The weapon's combo stats and the Genji Glove increases the chance for comboing, and the low HP increases the number of hits.

Edit: Oh, but there is a thing regarding time an animation takes. The girls take on average longer to finish the animation for a 12 hit combo. However they're not less likely to combo.

Time to finish a 12 hit (weapon unknown):

Vaan: 5.83
Balthier : 5.17
Fran : 6.13
Basch: 5.17
Ashe: 6.50
Penelo: 7.17

Which is why speedrunners doing Order of Ambrosia will use Balthier and Basch for taking down Yiazmat.

Sauce
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
^Pretty cool. Seems like a couple of mine are inverted versions of some of those combos, haha. But yeah, I'm trying to hit a balance between a solid party and role playing considerations.

I got to the infamous I'm Captain Basch bit last night. I took the plunge with Basch as Time Mage...it was the one I waffled the most over so far...but we'll see. I didn't use him in the mines has he had a two-level advantage over everyone.

Historically I don't think I've been very good with Gambits, so I'm trying to improve. I had the Foe:Undead - Cure on Fran for the mines, which was nice, although it served to just have her burn through her MP (I did have Charge set to MP<10%, but still). It occured to me on the train this morning that I guess I could put one above that that says Foe: HP<50% - Attack to help not use so much. *strokes chin*
 

Russell

.. ? ..
AKA
King of the Potato People
I'd advice against making Balthier a machinist though, due to the fact that his animation with the gun is his slowest. Same for Fran as an Archer.

:closedmonster:

Well shit.

I was planning on playing this a second time when we do a community playthrough. I'll try different jobs for people then.

I'm loving this so far. It's familiar enough to get a nostalgia high but I haven't play it in so long plus the Zodiac features make it feel new. It's like playing the game for the first time again. :awesome:
I got to this bit last night due to having no social life:
poster__ondore_s_lies_by_themoonclaw-d7pkgcv.jpg
 

Lex

Administrator
I am five minutes into the game and like I knew I would be, in job choice hell. I need time to map out who's getting what based on best job combos and optimal character animations before I commit to a playthrough. Thanks for providing that link Kimble, it's been interesting.

Only thing I need to know at this point is when do they unlock the second job choice?
 

Fangu

Great Old One
I'd advice against making Balthier a machinist though, due to the fact that his animation with the gun is his slowest. Same for Fran as an Archer.
:closedmonster:

Well shit.

I was planning on playing this a second time when we do a community playthrough. I'll try different jobs for people then.
Well, as Lith said, if you're playing casually and are taking your time with things, it probably doesn't make that much of a difference. It's more an optimisation thing for the particularly interested, though it is enough for me to never chose those roles for them :P


Re: game, one thing they changed (/improved) that I miss in the old version is the size and brightness of the level 3/ "red" chain level loot. I think that in TZA they look too much like the "gold" loot - they're slightly smaller and look thicker.

Vanilla/IZJS:
YBravZo.png


TZA:
w6Q2L1N.png

idk, it's a small thing, just one of those things I noticed :monster:

(I'm watching streams. People seem to be enjoying TZA, and in a way I am really happy that more people get to play and enjoy the game now. In that sense, it's a good thing they remastered IZJS. But I reserve the right to still be the grumpy old lady :P)

Only thing I need to know at this point is when do they unlock the second job choice?
From what I've found, it's right after Belias. It's a square on the licence board, costs 30 LP to unlock. Once you unlock it you MUST choose a job :monster:
 
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Lex

Administrator
I've turned it off for the night at Rogue Tomato lmao. I need to make the job choices before I really get into it and I'm shattered from work anyway, so I'll do some reading and YouTube then sleeeeeep.
 

Lex

Administrator
Oh btw Dustia chaining, I know it's possible but the vendor is inaccessible to keep the chain up or something? Fangu help me out, hao do i dustia in Zodiac Age?
 

Fangu

Great Old One
Oh btw Dustia chaining, I know it's possible but the vendor is inaccessible to keep the chain up or something? Fangu help me out, hao do i dustia in Zodiac Age?
You just need to bring all the Phoenix Downs you need to the fight :monster: Usually people bring 8 PDs right after Penelo leaves after the Sunstone quest, and then 38 (previously 47) after Barheim passage. That's for vanilla though - I'm not sure the numbers are the same for IZJS (I know they are different for JP vanilla for various reasons) but I'm guessing you'd want to bring more PD's than that anyway. The vendor should be accessible for the second round though (after Barheim). Just don't kill any other monsters and DON'T touch the save crystal! (I have no idea if auto saving affects enemy spawning though.)

Set the battle speed to slowest for both of them, that's safest.

Also, what WAT, what the hell is Fran doing here, I had no idea they'd added new battle animations? Or is this even new? I never saw it before anyway!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q55SSZIbYk&feature=youtu.be&t=1m11s

bwahahahaha
 

Lex

Administrator
Yes but I want to overlevel with Vaan alone before getting any other party members :3

Nalbina apparently doesn't break the chain, what's the earliest you can go there again?
 
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