Final Fantasy XII

[Max Payne]

You can, but just like auto-battle in XIII, its much more strategically viable to just program them and never touch them.

No it's not. Maybe for grinding mobs(sometimes a bad idea for this too, cuz some badass might stumble onto the field and fuck you up), but when it comes to boss battles leaving it to the gambits is a terrible idea. There will always be a situation you need to deal with yourself. You always wind up needing to manage their actions for some reason. I had what was pretty much a perfect gambit setup and during bosses still wound up having to do something myself periodically. Even on the field, there are some enemies you have to watch out for, and make sure your characters did what they needed to because leaving it up to the gambits to catch on one second later was just too risky.

And the fact that you didn't just have all gambits available from the outset was ridiculous.

No it wasn't. You didn't have all of the gambits from the beginning because you didn't even have many of the techniques the gambits were for. It also was a good way to make sure the player always stayed involved in battles. As you progressed through the game the bosses and enemies become more hardcore, and more gambits were made available to you to even out the field.

And all of this doesn't change the fact that you're doing the same shit you've been doing from 1-10. You're managing a party, and you can give them all commands at once. Except now you can move a player on the field, and you can automate a lot of the grunt work so you can focus on keeping your people alive.

 

[ForceStealer]

I didn't mean the gambits for techniques you didn't have...I meant like all the % and < > = ones. But regardless you should have gotten the gambit for a a technique when you learned it.
But the fact that you could move someone around was almost seemingly the only reason why you didn't just have normal control over everyone and moving was absolutely pointless. Its not like you dodged anything or could escape any more effectively than when you jsut held shoulder buttons.

EDIT: Sorry Mog.
FFXIII talk: It's not so much that I defend the fact the summons transform, but that the mode once they transform is kinda fun. And since I don't use them very often, it didn't really bother me.

 

[Max Payne]

I didn't mean the gambits for techniques you didn't have...I meant like all the % and < > = ones.

I already touched on those too.

But regardless you should have gotten the gambit for a a technique when you learned it.

Maybe, but it's not as though it was hard to find a gambit you needed.

But the fact that you could move someone around was almost seemingly the only reason why you didn't just have normal control over everyone and moving was absolutely pointless.

What? You move them around to traverse the field. You can only move during battle because you're still on the same field, there's no switch from travel mode to battle mode, so it's all done on the same field. If you don't want your character to move during battle, guess what? DON'T MOVE HIM. You can have everyone move on their own and just give them commands. Geez.

Moving isn't "pointless" it's so you can get from point A to point B on the field. It's not taking any control away from you at all.

 

[Max Payne]

If you don't want this shit here then split it Mog.

 

[Max Payne]

Then just split it, dawg.

 

[DLPB]

I personally thought Gambits were a shit idea...I survived 90% of that game by 2 gambits, cure if < x and attack (if those were the ones) . I spent most of the game watching 3 characters hack and slash as I held the joypad. The summons were equally as useless....

And now we get 13 where you dont even need to add a gambit haha

 

[Celes Chere]

I personally thought Gambits were a shit idea...I survived 90% of that game by 2 gambits, cure if < x and attack (if those were the ones) . I spent most of the game watching 3 characters hack and slash as I held the joypad. The summons were equally as useless....

Lol, guess how many gambits I used? ZERO! It's like they didn't even exist to me. O_o They're like the lazy way of playing a game.

"Well, I've got my gambits set, so I can just sit here and watch the game"

 

[DLPB]

Lol, guess how many gambits I used? ZERO! It's like they didn't even exist to me. O_o They're like the lazy way of playing a game.

"Well, I've got my gambits set, so I can just sit here and watch the game"

Exactly...I really cannot understand why they placed them in and made them far easier to use than playing the game. That isn't good game design. I don't like dumbing down and that certainly is....and then we have the latest, and it is again AI controlled.

They are going for mass market appeal but shitting all over the main fanbase. It isn't wise, because the new people they are attracting have tastes that change with the wind. When you have a core fanbase you really shouldn't be pissing them off with these cheap gimmicks...

 

[ForceStealer]

To be fair, I'm not sure XII was shooting for "mass market" appeal. I don't think programming falls under mass market.

And Mog isn't going to be happy about this.

 

[Max Payne]

I personally thought Gambits were a shit idea...I survived 90% of that game by 2 gambits, cure if < x and attack (if those were the ones) a

This is complete bullshit. It's pretty much impossible to get through 90% of the game using only 2 gambits, either that's a deliberate exaggeration or you're bullshitting.

Exactly...I really cannot understand why they placed them in and made them far easier to use than playing the game. That isn't good game design. I don't like dumbing down and that certainly is....and then we have the latest, and it is again AI controlled.

Jesus christ, it's not "dumbed down" gambits are there to ease the difficulty with the more hardcore bosses. If you don't want to use them then you don't have to, but don't bullshit about it being AI controlled, YOU control them however you like.

They are going for mass market

Wrong again.

but shitting all over the main fanbase.

Trying something new=/= "shitting all over the fanbase" not all of us are afraid of change like you are. FFXII still uses a form of the ATB, but people would rather ignore that and whine about how different it is.

When you have a core fanbase you really shouldn't be pissing them off with these cheap gimmicks...

I'm not even going to touch this stupidity. Look, MOG already asked you people to not do this here anyway, so DEEEEEERP.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

It's pretty much impossible to get through 90% of the game using only 2 gambits, either that's a deliberate exaggeration or you're bullshitting.

It's entirely possible to do it with NO Gambits. There are Youtube videos, GameFaqs walkthroughs, player journals of it, etc etc. It's been done before.

DIFFICULT, but not impossible, if you slow the battle speed down and set it to non-active. Also I will split these posts, so feel free to keep talking about this and respond to this post, etc etc.

 

[Max Payne]

It's entirely possible to do it with NO Gambits. There are Youtube videos, GameFaqs walkthroughs, player journals of it, etc etc. It's been done before.

Then let me put it this way, it's pretty much impossible for NORMAL people.

DIFFICULT, but not impossible, if you slow the battle speed down and set it to non-active. Also I will split these posts, so feel free to keep talking about this and respond to this post, etc etc.

If you do that then you pretty much turn it into a basic FF game. BUT DERP DUMBING DOWN DERP.

 

[ForceStealer]

What's all this derp stuff lately?

 

[Max Payne]

LOL. I'm not going to spell it out for you.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

LOL. I'm not going to spell it out for you.

I guess he's wondering why people are accentuating their comments with HERP DERP all the time lately. Personally I think it's pretty funny, especially if you say it out loud.

HERP

DERP

If you do that then you pretty much turn it into a basic FF game.

If you ask me, I would have preferred that over the Gambit system. But that's just me. Personally, while I think FFXII is a pretty fun game, I have more problems with the battle system than just Gambits. Stuff like 'we're all the same itis', Techniks weren't very useful, and the License Board.

 

[ForceStealer]

I know what it means, thank you. You just started using it a whole lot lately, I was wondering if it comes from somewhere.

 

[Max Payne]

If you ask me, I would have preferred that over the Gambit system. But that's just me. Personally, while I think FFXII is a pretty fun game, I have more problems with the battle system than just Gambits. Stuff like 'we're all the same itis', Techniks weren't very useful, and the License Board.

I got good mileage out of quite a few techniques. But most of them are only good for specific situations.

As far as "we're all the same itis" always made them specialize at something. Fran was my badass archer/Ninja swordswoman who was good with fire spells, Van was my secondary tank, who was good with protection spells, so on and so forth. I just gave them roles to play. The system is malleable enough to make them play whatever role you want them to.

 

[Max Payne]

I guess he's wondering why people are accentuating their comments with HERP DERP all the time lately. Personally I think it's pretty funny, especially if you say it out loud.

HERP

DERP

Well obviously.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

As far as "we're all the same itis" always made them specialize at something. Fran was my badass archer who was good with fire spells, Van was my secondary tank, who was good with protection spells, so on and so forth. I just gave them roles to play.

Yeah, that's the upside with systems like that, the 'blank slate' system. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that. I just prefer systems that give characters specialization, and forces the player to work creatively around limitations, such as FFV's Job System, FFT, FFIX, Breath of Fire (with its Master system and giving the player choices on how to influence how their characters grow, steadily and more organic), Saga Frontier and Romancing Saga, and so on.

 

[Max Payne]

Well, twelve goes a long way towards giving you a lot of customization. The only thing that holds it back in that department is the license board.

 

[ForceStealer]

The License Board improved immensely when I printed out a PDF of the board so that I could actually plan ahead.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well, twelve goes a long way towards giving you a lot of customization.

Eh. Not really my thing, but hey, a lot of other people enjoyed it, so I'm glad.

 

[Max Payne]

I really want to try out the Zodiac version man. All of the changes, the class based system, the new boss fights and bumped up difficulty sounds awesome.

If it wasn't for the fact that my pc is shit I'd totally download the translated iso and play it on emulator.

 

[Tennyo]

It's entirely possible to do it with NO Gambits. There are Youtube videos, GameFaqs walkthroughs, player journals of it, etc etc. It's been done before.

DIFFICULT, but not impossible, if you slow the battle speed down and set it to non-active. Also I will split these posts, so feel free to keep talking about this and respond to this post, etc etc.

Guess what? Not every single player who has ever played the game can do that. Just because some people have nothing better to do with their time than play a game over and over perfecting their skill and trying to make a run through with a handicap doesn't mean other people who have other things going on are going to as well.

There are people who play FFVII with no materia, or they only ever use the default weapons. There are people who play through with minimal leveling. Does this mean we all should, too? Does this make materia and stronger weapons and the idea of trying to reach higher levels to be able to beat the final boss stupid and useless just because someone out there managed to do it another way?

Of course not. XII is no different. I actually liked the gambit system. I did more than just scoff and cry foul after only using a small handful in the beginning. I actually played around with it and tested different setups to find the perfect fit. I was always having to think critically about what each section or fight needed in order to achieve success.

And like Dacon said, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. And while you all complain about nothing I, along with many, many other people who have played the game, are going to use it because WE WANT TO.

The License Board improved immensely when I printed out a PDF of the board so that I could actually plan ahead.

This is actually a really good idea. I should have thought of that. lol

But yeah, that was the only thing about the battles system I didn't like. I customized my characters to all play a role but I did have a lot of wasted points trying to figure out where everything was that I wanted to give them. :/

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Guess what? Not every single player who has ever played the game can do that. Just because some people have nothing better to do with their time than play a game over and over perfecting their skill and trying to make a run through with a handicap doesn't mean other people who have other things going on are going to as well.

I uh, know that? I never even insinuated that the average player should do something like that. I'm just saying it's possible.

Thanks, though?