Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Spoiler Thread)

[Marle]

Something just crossed my mind. Didn't Noel say he was the last child to be born? Then how does Yeul fit into all this? Yeul died when she was just 15 and Noel was 18 at the time. So wouldn't, technically, Yeul be the last child to be born?

Last child? I thought it was said he was the last guardian to be born. :T I don't remember him saying he was the last child to be born. Anyone know when he said that exactly?

 

[Splintered]

Last child? I thought it was said he was the last guardian to be born. :T I don't remember him saying he was the last child to be born. Anyone know when he said that exactly?

He definitely says last person to be born. It's in New Bohdum after the attack. I only remember because the second time around I made sure to keep an ear out for it.

I wanted to know if it was a writing error or a translation error. "This guy are sick" level.

 

[Mwynn]

I think the person taking down Caius has to accept the Heart of Etro before it can be passed on...I might be confusing things though. But what exactly is considered "accepting" the Heart of Etro? In the paradox ending, Noel receives the heart and becomes immortal. What was the difference? There was no line before the paradox scope activated that gave the indication that Noel's mind had changed causing the fight to become killer.

Maybe it makes a difference when you're in Valhalla? Which is what Caius waited for all along?

We know that in Valhalla life and death does not exist. Etro was sleeping in the Heart of Chaos, the moment Noel stabbed it she died. Caius.. didn't die, we know that he became a living paradox as revealed in the secret ending, still possessing the Heart of Chaos.

 

[Alex Strife]

The only problem with "last to be born" thing is that Yeul is younger than him, right? He's 18 while Yeul's basically 15-17 every time we meet her.

 

[Fangu]

Last child? I thought it was said he was the last guardian to be born. :T I don't remember him saying he was the last child to be born. Anyone know when he said that exactly?

He says "I was the last human child to be born". Maybe the 'human' part here is important, idk.
Edit: Wasn't Noel having memory problems at this stage? He says it very early in the game.

 

[Aqua]

Maybe it makes a difference when you're in Valhalla? Which is what Caius waited for all along?

We know that in Valhalla life and death does not exist. Etro was sleeping in the Heart of Chaos, the moment Noel stabbed it she died. Caius.. didn't die, we know that he became a living paradox as revealed in the secret ending, still possessing the Heart of Chaos.

It always comes down to this:

Spoiler

Don't it?

I'm still attributing Noel's "last human to be born" thing to translation error. IIRC it's been mentioned by Liam O'Brien, Laura Bailey and Troy Baker that the writing for the story was still being worked on as they were recording. Perhaps at the point they realized their mistake they just said "Eff it, no one will notice."

Silly SE...we notice everything.

Of course isn't Yeul technically the first human created by Etro, which is why she's given the Eyes of Etro and will always reincarnate into the same person? Maybe that does set her into some different category, idk.

Edit: And yeah, Noel's memory might also be a problem there too. As the paradoxes continued to be solved, more and more of his memory was disappearing. That could be SE's reasoning there...

 

[Marle]

I think it makes sense, tbh. He technically was the last human to be born. Yeul is a farseer and I always assumed that sort of made her...not so normal-human? She certainly doesn't come off as normal, especially since she's reincarnated all the time. Noel is very clearly just a normal person. He doesn't possess the heart of Etro and he can't see into the future, so perhaps that's what he meant when he said he was the last human.

What wouldn't have made sense is if Noel said he was the last child to be born. Because, in that case, he definitely wasn't. :T

 

[Arianna]

About Yuel: I would like to know why she seems to have a hard time walking?

 

[Fangu]

It's a Japanese thing

 

[Aqua]

Maybe she just has to go to the bathroom.

 

[Purple]

You should see her running

 

[Strangelove]

When does he say he was the 'last human to be born' in the game? I've got half a mind to replay that bit just to see if it was there originally or if it was a change in the translation.

 

[Fangu]

New Bodhum 3 AF, right after Serah wakes up. (There's a cut scene right before where Serah says "I don't think any of us slept that night" or something). They're right outside the NORA house and he talks about his grandmother and stuff.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I haven't checked the Japanese text of the line yet, but I remember in xi-feng's translation of XIII-2, she translated that line as "We were born in an age where the world was crumbling around us: the last children."

That said, the Datalog for XIII-2 does call Noel "the last child of humanity" in the English version so idk.

 

[Strangelove]

New Bodhum 3 AF, right after Serah wakes up. (There's a cut scene right before where Serah says "I don't think any of us slept that night" or something). They're right outside the NORA house and he talks about his grandmother and stuff.

Is that one of the Live Triggers when it's morning? After Noel talks about the OOPArts and time travel and everyone sleeps. I remember him mentioning his grandmother, but it's just remembering where.

I just had a look at two of them, but the closest I saw was the one where you look at the crops. Serah asks what he meant by saying he was the 'last human' yesterday, to which Noel says that it means exactly what it sounded like; that when he was born there were less people than there are in Neo Bodhum, and eventually he was the last one left.

I skipped a couple of scenes, but that one Tres mentioned (the "a future where everyone lives" scene?) is after you've found the ooparts? So maybe I'll see that sometime tomorrow, or someone has a handy video link for me

The game calls characters 'children of humans' a bunch of time (by which I mean I think it was the spooky coliseum guy maybe once, said 人の&#23376.

But English game have suck monkey dicks anyway for that War of Transgression and Ark datalog stuff lalalalanotlistening

 

[Arianna]

But English game have suck monkey dicks anyway for that War of Transgression and Ark datalog stuff lalalalanotlistening

Why? What's the real translation?

 

[Strangelove]

The ark thing I brought up here: http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9425

The 'Transgression' thing was basically this (the subject it was brought up in was about people taking what the English version says to mean more than what the original Japanese said or something):

Spoiler

Replaying FFXIII got me thinking about this. Because in the English game you have the 'War of Transgression', which in Japanese is 黙示戦争 (mokushi sensou). Which are two completely different things. The two definitions of 'mokushi' are:

１ 暗黙のうちに意思や考えを表すこと。
To tacitly reveal one's thoughts or intentions.

２ 隠された真理を示すこと。特に、キリスト教で、神が人意を越えた真理や神意などを示すこと。啓示。
To show a hidden truth. Particularly, in Christianity, for God to show a truth beyond human understanding or His will. Divine revelation.

Neither of which have anything to do with transgressions. The game itself explains the name 'mokushi sensou' as coming from the fact that the people were not told the details of the war by those in power.

To me, that kind of changes the focus of the naming from the details and facts of it being kept in mystery (mokushi) to simply an evil outside force encroaching on your territory (transgression).

But is 'Transgression' more right just because that's what they went with in English?

'Mokushi' is also the first part of 黙示録 (mokushiroku), as in the Book of Revelations. Which kind of fits with Ragnarok.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yeah, I always thought "War of Revelation" made more sense, for obvious reasons.

 

[Fangu]

Is that one of the Live Triggers when it's morning? After Noel talks about the OOPArts and time travel and everyone sleeps. I remember him mentioning his grandmother, but it's just remembering where.

The grandmother part is right after talking to the kids ("meanie miss Farron!")

I'm searching for the "last human child to be born" now. It's a pain. I was so sure I knew where it was. I had to dig up the videos I was watching on YouTube and I'm listening through them now. There is a chance him saying that depends on a Live Trigger answer.

Edit: Can't find it. It might be in The Dying World, but I was so sure I saw it in New Bodhum 3 AF. I spent way too much time on this now, so: cba.

 

[Splintered]

It's definitely in New Bohdum. I don't know if it's a live trigger or you can get it only by replaying the game from start. There are a few dialogue options that are missed if you just rewind time, but I'm pretty sure last human isn't one of them since the only options you would actually miss is during the invasion.

The ark thing I brought up here: http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9425

The 'Transgression' thing was basically this (the subject it was brought up in was about people taking what the English version says to mean more than what the original Japanese said or something):

You beautiful translating bastard :') Thanks for this.

 

[Strangelove]

I haven't checked the Japanese text of the line yet, but I remember in xi-feng's translation of XIII-2, she translated that line as "We were born in an age where the world was crumbling around us: the last children."

I'm going on memory of a couple of hours ago here (I forgot to focus on it), but this was:

俺たちは（something involving 世界 and 滅ぶ）に生まれた
最後の子供だった

The missing bit was probably something like 滅びゆく世界 or 滅んでしまった世界, but a 'last children born' bit was there. Didn't see any others, but there are a couple of options I haven't selected (or it's possibly one I picked in the past).

 

[ForceStealer]

All right, I finally got around to beating this. That final boss doesn't &#%$ around. I guess this is still the thread to talk about it?

But, I dunno, I kinda liked it. With everyone talking about the terrible to be continued ending, I was afraid they were going to do that without resolving 13-2's actual plot, you know like before you could kill Caius or something. I was pleasantly surprised that it was more of a "if you care about seeing more, it's continued, otherwise you did what you were supposed to."
If it is concluded in DLC as seems to be the expectation, then yeah I'll probably get it, if it's another game, I'm not so sure.

I liked that they finally explained why the hell everyone uncrystallized at the end of the 13, and I thought taht it was a decent enough excuse as to why Serah had the Yeul powers. I didn't read all of Tres' posts complaining about her being a special snowflake or whatever cause I was trying not to spoil myself too much, but I dunno, made decent sense to me.

As previously noted, I liked pretty much everything about Noel, and I don't think he ever acts emo at all, despite Masa's concerns. And Caius, stupid freaking weapon notwithstanding, turned to be a pretty good villain. He had an empathetic motive and I did kinda feel for him watching Yeul die all those times.

I didn't expect them to go through with killing Serah, although I guess they can undo that now by continuing the story.

I do have three questions though, sorry if they've all been answered, I know I'm a little late to the party. The first two are relatively minor.

1) So why exactly does Alyssa betray you? I always did find her annoying, and I know she says something about the future you're trying to protect is one where she doesn't exist...but why? Do they say why she doesn't?

2) Caius' goal, killing a whole bunch of people to open the gate to Valhalla...that was Barthandelus' goal too, right? Barthandelus just didn't know about Valhalla and was just assuming that Etro (?) would come back, right?

3) But my only REAL source of confusion comes from this Heart of Chaos business:

All right, so Caius, as a Guardian, has the Heart of Chaos which gives him all those fancy shadow powers and teleporting and Bahamut-ing and stuff, yes? And he received that by killing his predecessor. Now, he wants Noel to kill him to kill the Heart of Chaos, to kill Etro, so that Yeul will be freed.
Wut. But I thought that's how every guardian is chosen, by killing their predecessor, how will it be different when Noel kills him? OR are your special Guardian powers merely l'Cie abilities and Caius only got the Heart of Chaos when Etro un-l'Cied him?

And if THAT'S the case, why the hell did Etro do that, for one thing. For another, why did she conscript Lightning to protect her and fight Caius if killing Caius would kill her? And why wouldn't Caius just kill himself (as he basically ended up doing anyway)?


Honestly, I really enjoyed the game and even the story, or at least the characterization (and who can argue with Lightning nudity), but that point really confused me. If there was a post that explains all this, if you could link me to it I would appreciate it.

 

[Arianna]

The ark thing I brought up here: http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9425

The 'Transgression' thing was basically this (the subject it was brought up in was about people taking what the English version says to mean more than what the original Japanese said or something):


'Mokushi' is also the first part of 黙示録 (mokushiroku), as in the Book of Revelations. Which kind of fits with Ragnarok.

Spoiler

Maybe a fal'Cie revealed to the humans that the purpose of Cocoon was to sacrifice the life of both Cocoon and Gran Pulse, to bring forth the final battle between Mwynn and Bhunivelze.

 

[Splintered]

Some of the stuff is weird writing but this is the way I chose to look at it.

1) So why exactly does Alyssa betray you? I always did find her annoying, and I know she says something about the future you're trying to protect is one where she doesn't exist...but why? Do they say why she doesn't?

Remember when Alyssa had that whole dramatic speech about being scared that she died in the purge.

She actually died in the purge. Fixing the paradoxes would have eventually led to her going back to the original past and letting her die. If you return to Academia 4XX, the Academia NPCs begin to forget her existence.

2) Caius' goal, killing a whole bunch of people to open the gate to Valhalla...that was Barthandelus' goal too, right? Barthandelus just didn't know about Valhalla and was just assuming that Etro (?) would come back, right?

imo, yes. There are analects in the first game to suggest a massive killing opens the gateway to another realm, and that will summon his god Lindzei (or Buniwhatever his name is). Caius just wanted to destroy the world.

3) But my only REAL source of confusion comes from this Heart of Chaos business:

All right, so Caius, as a Guardian, has the Heart of Chaos which gives him all those fancy shadow powers and teleporting and Bahamut-ing and stuff, yes? And he received that by killing his predecessor. Now, he wants Noel to kill him to kill the Heart of Chaos, to kill Etro, so that Yeul will be freed.
Wut. But I thought that's how every guardian is chosen, by killing their predecessor, how will it be different when Noel kills him? OR are your special Guardian powers merely l'Cie abilities and Caius only got the Heart of Chaos when Etro un-l'Cied him?

The guardian ritual predates the heart of chaos. When Caius gave up his life to save one of the Yuel's (that Bahamut thing he turns into actually kills him)- Etros was moved by his sacrifice and gave him her heart as a "gift of immortality." I don't know why she linked it to the guardian ritual but she did, and what happens to the user is directly linked the person who is killing state of mind. A person who is not a guardian cannot kill him.

If the guardian is hesitant and doesn't want to kill them, then he inherits the heart of chaos. If the guardian is ready to do what he needs to, the heart is destroyed. Even though Noel tried to spare Caius, he was still ready to kill him, and thus destroyed the heart. In a paradox ending, he kills Caius further in the past before he was ready and inherits Etro's heart.

And if THAT'S the case, why the hell did Etro do that, for one thing. For another, why did she conscript Lightning to protect her and fight Caius if killing Caius would kill her? And why wouldn't Caius just kill himself (as he basically ended up doing anyway)?

I'm just going to put up my best guess, but Caius had put himself in a position that he couldn't lose. He just needed Valhala to open its gates, he could either kill Etros herself in Valhalla, which Lightning was stopping, or he could destroy Cocoon in the real world, opening Valhalla's gates because of all the souls passing through. The only way to stop him was to force Noel kill him, which would have let him win anyway.

For Lightning, a lot of people here, myself included, think there's something else going on. Etro's has been losing power, alluded to by the empty throne and by the end, Lightning is on throne. So Lightning might have a plan brewing. Also, there's no way Lightning would just let Serah die.

Caius can't kill himself, a guardian has to do it for him otherwise the heart of chaos just revives him. Otherwise turning into Bahamut would have done the trick since it actually does kill the user.

 

[AvecAloes]

I love the way you've spelled this out, Splintered. It really does make a lot more sense now. Thanks!